When does the game stop?

[Eduard]

Some of the people I highly respect are making excellent points.

Ed, I have continued to preach that there is no such thing as a person who speaks fluent English if they've not lived for awhile in the culture of the language. Men who believe otherwise are risking a great deal. I've met a lot of men dating RW who believe their lady to be "fluent." Those same men change their minds eventually when faced with the reality that the same lady has to relearn English to some extent once as she adjusts to life in his country.


So true.

Yet, there are certain people here that strongly advise men to look for a woman who can "speak at least some english" and dismiss the others. A really bad advice, IMO! All that separates the "non speakers" from "some English" speakers is really a couple of months of classes yet you'd be giving up on 90% of the women in the "available" pool just for the instant gratification of being able to say a few words in English to each other.  In reality both, "non" and "some" will have to spend at least a year in their new, English speaking country to get to the point of more or less decent communication. It's a shame that so many Americans are not bilingual, because if they were they would understand what I've been trying to say a lot better.

[mendeleyev]

Do I ever agree with this. My wife, who has excellent English skills although not fluent. She still thinks in Russian and translates in her mind but excellent skills and understanding nonetheless. Teaching her to drive, I could not for the life of me get her to make a left turn. Right turn didn't "seem" to be as much of a problem but, a left turn was impossible. We're in the left turn lane, I've described endlessly what we are going to do, the turn blinker is on, the light turns green I say go, she takes off straight every time.

This was a source of frustration for me for several weeks. She couldn't explain to me why she goes straight other than she did what I told her to do. After racking my brain for a few weeks, I finally deduced it came down to one word "go". In her mind, go means straight. In my mind go means proceed.

Seriously, I was at one point beginning to think something was wrong with her brain preventing her from turning left. Alas, it was only the exact definition of the word "go"

Faux Pas, what a real example! We have faced the same type of challenges in Mrs M's adjustment to life in the USA and the same in reverse in my adjustment to Russian life.

Language is a way of using words/sounds to describe life and each of us approaches life from our "home" cultural context.

[IAmZon]

1, Thanks for all the well balanced members illustrating that this is not some strange place.


2, Language.  How can a grown, clear thinking man fall in love with a woman he can not communicate with in toddler words?  Maybe I am just dense

[Eduard]

1, Thanks for all the well balanced members illustrating that this is not some strange place.


2, Language.  How can a grown, clear thinking man fall in love with a woman he can not communicate with in toddler words?  Maybe I am just dense

Tim, she may have some other convincing assets besides the language 
But seriously, use a good translator, don't try to wing it or you may regret it big time! I'm prolly too expensive for your taste, I know that so I'm not trying to sell you here, just a friendly advice - find some one who has excellent russian/english skills it may save you a lot more $$$ in the future. There is always a chance that you will just get lucky off course, but I don't know if you want to count on luck in a matter like this.
Just my 2 Grivnas 

[TheTraveler]

2, Language.  How can a grown, clear thinking man fall in love with a woman he can not communicate with in toddler words?  Maybe I am just dense

Focus on lust.
 
It works with even a very limited vocabulary!

[Daveman]

Tim, you are right about the emphasis of marriage on this forum.
There exists here a concept that all is not OK unless you are married.
And not just married . . . but married to a FSUW.

If you were previously married for 50 years to an WW; you are still not worthy and basically know nothing.
But if you have been married to a FSUW for 3 months, then you are an honorable  member and are very knowledgeable about married life and women in general.

And if you do not show a strong intent to marry soon (but again, only to a FSUW) then you are basically a scum bag.

 

..

So Tim, don't go getting paranoid about the reception you are getting here.
You are just a normal guy interacting with a group that is not really normal.   

And remember, Tim, that tidbit comes directly from the keyboard of the notorious Bread Bandit himself... 

[IAmZon]

Tim, she may have some other convincing assets besides the language   But seriously, use a good translator, don't try to wing it or you may regret it big time! I'm prolly too expensive for your taste, I know that so I'm not trying to sell you here, just a friendly advice - find some one who has excellent russian/english skills it may save you a lot more $$$ in the future. There is always a chance that you will just get lucky off course, but I don't know if you want to count on luck in a matter like this. Just my 2 Grivnas

No other assets are worth putting on a blindfold IMO


Ed, I think your very hands on service would work for some people who WANT to put their absolute trust in another; and this is not to suggest that you are not worthy of such trust.  But, it seems to say a lot about the client.   It paints a picture of a man who needs a wing man (desperately IMO).  To forgo the most basic communication skills, especially at the beginning of a relationship, sacrifices the ability to form valid and necessary judgments about another.  THAT is the only cost that is too high for me.


For example: From time to time, I have gotten a woman's phone number and there was genuine chemistry in South America ... then I call this woman on the phone, and I can't understand shit.   I literally have said screw it, lo siento (I'm sorry click), 20 times with very eligible women because of not having good communication this way. Fortunately, my Spanish improves daily, and there seems to be an endless selection of possibilities.  The best translator is TIME.

[Eduard]

Ed, I think your very hands on service would work for some people who WANT to put their absolute trust in another; and this is not to suggest that you are not worthy of such trust. But, it seems to say a lot about the client.   It paints a picture of a man who needs a wing man (desperately IMO). 

You wouldn't be saying this if you met some of my clients... hardly desperate and hardly some one who needs their hand held. They simply tried other options and came to realisation that my method makes the most sense if you want to save a lot of time.

To forgo the most basic communication skills, especially at the beginning of a relationship, sacrifices the ability to form valid and necessary judgments about another.  THAT is the only cost that is too high for me.

Do you realise that by going to another culture/another country/another language to look for a woman this is exactly what you will be doing especially if you don't want help from some one like me? Don't count on meeting many women who are fluent in English! Again, Tim, I'm not trying to sell you here on the open forum, you are in my Skype contacts so I could have done this privately. Frankly I don't think that at this point in time we are even a good match for working together. I'm not too sure that you are ready for a lifetime commitment yet and also you probably should take a couple of trips to the FSU on your own so you see for yourself and realise a few things. FSU women are different from Latin women. I personally think that you will love them and will be hooked after your first trip. The best way for you to go IMO would probably be to move there for 2-3 years, learn some Russian and I'm sure you'll meet plenty of great women. If I were you I'd talk to Chivo and I'm sure he can give you some good advice on this.

[Faux Pas]

1, Thanks for all the well balanced members illustrating that this is not some strange place.

Certainly a mixed bag but, remember all it not as it appears 

2, Language.  How can a grown, clear thinking man fall in love with a woman he can not communicate with in toddler words?  Maybe I am just dense

Excellent question and one I pondered way back when at the inception of my foray into the venture. I came to no final conclusion. You can do as you've done in South American countries. Move there learn the language and start from ground zero but, I don't recommend that.

Communication is important. In fact, the "one" most important aspect of the whole affair. Speaking different languages, communication can still be achieved. It takes a hellava lot of time and patience. I don't know if you have either, you know.

One conclusion I did come to however was, how (FauxPas) have you done with women whom you share a language? Plenty of dates, plenty of company and a fair share of great sex but, still not a woman I wanted to grow old with. So in essence, not very good. I certainly wasn't a failure but I wasn't where I wanted to be.

Maybe I got lucky, maybe I didn't. Only time can be the judge of that but, if you don't go, you'll never know. I preach to the newbies here to find women with some decent english ability or to learn the language. The reason I do has nothing to do as much with language as it does "communication" because in my mind, they are not mutually inclusive.

[JohnDearGreen]

I hope some Russian lady will now give you a better and more precise point of view

Well Leelou, actually some Russian lady is training the Russian ladies right now.  While the men here are sharpening their big game hunting skills, some 300,000 Moscow ladies have also been trained on how to hunt down the men:
http://hochu-zamuj.ru/eng/
I suppose when Alexander and his $650 RW client encounter Ed and his AM client at the mall, the 21st century dating stratagem will unfold.

[Gator]

1, Thanks for all the well balanced members illustrating that this is not some strange place.

Only you know what is best for you.  Your time in Hungary will introduce you to women who share some similarities with Slavic women (physical, cultural and history), yet they still are different IMO.  Keep in mind that once in Hungary it is a short trip to Ukraine (and no visa is required).  You may be making your first trip soon.

2, Language.  How can a grown, clear thinking man fall in love with a woman he can not communicate with in toddler words?  Maybe I am just dense

 
Animation, non-verbal chemistry, and electronic translator can do wonders to get a relationship started.  Once started, patience and time (as in years, not weeks) are imperative.  If she is committed to you, she will make the effort to learn English.

 
Many Hungarians in Budapest speak some English, more than Russians in Moscow.  Nevertheless, their level of English is not sufficient to have the obtuse conversations you seem to relish (sheeesh, I have trouble understanding all that you write at RWD).  When having a serious conversation with HW, you may learn to do with less. 

[Gator]

I suppose when Alexander and his $650 RW client encounter Ed and his AM client at the mall, the 21st century dating stratagem will unfold.

 
 
The video clip offers some examples of the contrasts between American and Russian culture, which I find amusing.

-   The narrator's comment of "Ripe old age of 18."

-   The complete lack of reaction by the man sitting at the table in the food court other than to look at her expressionless as if she were a lunatic.

[mies]

-   The narrator's comment of "Ripe old age of 18."

-   The complete lack of reaction by the man sitting at the table in the food court other than to look at her expressionless as if she were a lunatic.

That's because she wasn't hot enough for Russian standards, and her behavior does look like a lunatic by Russian standards. 

[JR]

That's because she wasn't hot enough for Russian standards, and her behavior does look like a lunatic by Russian standards. 

But she got married

[Anotherkiwi]

But she got married

No she didn't - the site owner got married.  The brunette was testing the system for the video!

[Ranetka]

That's because she wasn't hot enough for Russian standards, and her behavior does look like a lunatic by Russian standards. 

I thought the man was on the phone. In any case he did not appreciate some silly little girl following by camera desruoting his meal. And yeah, she behaved like a lunatic.

[Gator]

That's because she wasn't hot enough for Russian standards.....

She was average, and an average looking AW would never panic.

....and her behavior does look like a lunatic by Russian standards.

I thought the man was on the phone. In any case he did not appreciate some
silly little girl following by camera desruoting his meal. And yeah, she behaved
like a lunatic.

An AM would have been friendly even in declining.   Even if an AM did not speak Russian, he still would have smiled and made some attempt.  Or he would have pointed to his phone.
 
See, Russian mentality differs from American mentality.

Another thought.  An AM from New York City may have treated her as a lunatic, and this clip was filmed in Moscow, so......

[Ranetka]

She was average, and an average looking AW would never panic.
 
An AM would have been friendly even in declining.   Even if an AM did not speak Russian, he still would have smiled and made some attempt.  Or he would have pointed to his phone.
 
See, Russian mentality differs from American mentality.

Another thought.  An AM from New York City may have treated her as a lunatic, and this clip was filmed in Moscow, so......

You see she did not actually look like someone genually looking for a stranger, to me it all looked like a silly prank. Would have been OK if she showed any interest in the men she was approaching.

[Gator]

You see she did not actually look like someone genually looking for a stranger, to me it all looked like a silly prank. Would have been OK if she showed any interest in the men she was approaching.

Yet two RM shown earlier in the clip gave her flirty smiles. They were younger and hence "so horny" I guess.   

The man at the table reminded me of my first trip on the metro and the morose expressions of the riders, other than the drunkards.

[JR]

No she didn't - the site owner got married.  The brunette was testing the system for the video!

I was referring to the site owner ))
And how do you know the brunette did not get married? Perhaps that part wound up on the editing room floor, failure makes better news than success

[Leelou]

Only you know what is best for you.  Your time in Hungary will introduce you to women who share some similarities with Slavic women (physical, cultural and history), yet they still are different IMO.  Keep in mind that once in Hungary it is a short trip to Ukraine (and no visa is required).  You may be making your first trip soon.


 
Animation, non-verbal chemistry, and electronic translator can do wonders to get a relationship started.  Once started, patience and time (as in years, not weeks) are imperative.  If she is committed to you, she will make the effort to learn English.

 
Many Hungarians in Budapest speak some English, more than Russians in Moscow.  Nevertheless, their level of English is not sufficient to have the obtuse conversations you seem to relish (sheeesh, I have trouble understanding all that you write at RWD).  When having a serious conversation with HW, you may learn to do with less.

To know Hungary and the Hungarian language fairly well (I lived in Budapest for a while), I can say Hungarian ladies have absolutely nothing in common with their slavic sisters. They are way less into family values and behaviors, and they "westernized" extremely fast in the last 10 years.
I'm not saying it is bad, but I see no common points between FSU ladies and the ones from Central Europe.
Czech, Slovakian, Hungarian, ect,... are very similar in many points to what you can find in the West. They have a vision of life that is way different than what you can find in Russia and Ukraine.

Concerning the English skills... many young people speak english well in Budapest. However, once you get over 35 years old, it's pretty difficult.

[Eduard]

I agree, Russian and Ukrainian women have little in common with Hungarian women culturally. It's almost like saying that Russians and Germans are very similar. Sure, in a way they are but then all humans are similar in more ways than not. Czech and Slovak women perhaps are a bit closer to Russian women and they also have many gorgeous women among them but still they are more Westernized. Also they don't have the same shortage of marriage minded, non-drinking single men as in Russia/Ukraine which makes it a lot harder for foreign men to find a willing woman there.

[JohnDearGreen]

All this talk about Hungary and Czech Republic reminds me of this SNL skit below.
Hope you score better than these 2 guys.