Just Go...

[ML]

Maybe someone will start a new thread that actually gives SPECIFIC advice to someone Starting Out.  I see lots of comments, but very little quality step-by-step advice because starting with an email introduction to a profile on a website isn't going to work very often, it usually turns out to be a HUGE wast of time, but I guess if you have the time, then maybe you could get lucky I suppose. 

I have posted the step by step process of contacting women on the dating websites several times.

And, it has worked for me very well.

But then, there is always the question of defining 'worked.'

Many here will proclaim that 'worked' only applies to getting a FSUW to agree to marry you.

For me, 'worked' meant that I met many, many good quality women, and spent many enjoyable days and weeks with several high quality women, and had the opportunity to marry a few of these women.  I am still in contact with several of these women.

As a side note;  I just got an email today from one of the women I met.  She was not on my short-list because she wanted to have a child.  She told me that she was married in December.  We have exchanged emails infrequently for over 2 years, and it seems she intends to continue with this.

[GQBlues]

Spectris-
 
I recently gave you props for being grounded during your trips. I now applaud you even more for even taking the time to share your thoughts and opinion about this venture. Not to mention proving unfazed with the Kool-Aide. So don't mind your detractors...
 
Congrats on your new relationship!

[Faux Pas]

Spectris-
 
I recently gave you props for being grounded during your trips. I now applaud you even more for even taking the time to share your thoughts and opinion about this venture. Not to mention proving unfazed with the Kool-Aide. So don't mind your detractors...
 
Congrats on your new relationship!

I'm not a detractor FTR but, I fail to see where paying for dates from an agency can be considered any measure of success. Please help me out here

[Admin]

I'm not a detractor FTR but, I fail to see where paying for dates from an agency can be considered any measure of success. Please help me out here

No one is guaranteed ANY chance of success - however that is measured/defined - AND, it may be a very individual definition, which is quite alright. The ONLY guarantee is that if someone sits on the sidelines forever, they will NOT achieve ANY measure of success. The old adage about having to be IN the game to have ANY possibility of winning the game applies. Whether a person chooses to utilize an agency or not is an individual choice. There is the unequivocal fact that some/many who are married met their spouse through an agency (ref the Cross-Cultural Marriage Survey for supporting stats). To be "paying for dates from an agency" at least puts a person in the position of meeting someone who may become their spouse. Sitting at home, OTOH, assures a person of never being in the position of *meeting* someone who may become their spouse.

Wasn't that the gist of the OP - to encourage people to get off their duff?

- Dan

[Hammer2722]

No one is guaranteed ANY chance of success - however that is measured/defined - AND, it may be a very individual definition, which is quite alright. The ONLY guarantee is that if someone sits on the sidelines forever, they will NOT achieve ANY measure of success. The old adage about having to be IN the game to have ANY possibility of winning the game applies. Whether a person chooses to utilize an agency or not is an individual choice. There is the unequivocal fact that some/many who are married met their spouse through an agency (ref the Cross-Cultural Marriage Survey for supporting stats). To be "paying for dates from an agency" at least puts a person in the position of meeting someone who may become their spouse. Sitting at home, OTOH, assures a person of never being in the position of *meeting* someone who may become their spouse.

Wasn't that the gist of the OP - to encourage people to get off their duff?

- Dan

Well said Dan, well said.....

[GoodOlBoy]

Deleted.

[Gator]

I'm not a detractor FTR but, I fail to see where paying for dates from an agency can be considered any measure of success. Please help me out here

FP, what is your definition of success? 

We see ML's definition of  'worked':   "met many, many good quality women, and spent many enjoyable days and weeks with several high quality women, and had the opportunity to marry a few of these women."   The term "opportunity to marry a few of these women" is dubious IMO; however, I accept ML's definition from his perspective knowing that he possibly suffers from acute and chronic satyriasis.   

The definition of 'long term success' surely would have "a loving and enduring relationship" as the target.  However, is that the target for a trip?

I would suggest that the Spectris concept of WNVM is an excellent first trip for a newbie who is not yet convinced that a RW wife is for him.   I believe it is particularly suited to confident, independent men.   Success would be finding a woman with whom you want to see again on a WOVO trip.    Yet success could also be measured as as deciding AW are fine.

With this experience, a man could easily advance to the method of  contacting RW at the free sites and sites such as Elena's Models and using Skype to decide whether to meet one or more.  I have always felt that a hopeless romantic may develop too high expectations for a first trip (i. e., fall in love with a photo).
 
 

[GQBlues]

I'm not a detractor FTR but...

It never once crossed my mind, FP. I had Eduard's post more in mind when he said this...
 

2 years wasted, 5 trips to the tune of probably 15 to 20K at least - wasted. The man should have been playing with his first baby along with his lovely wife by now. Hey, but... Real great advice! I'm sorry but when I see posts like this just makes me wonder what are some people thinking?

Now that's classically hilarious to me considering his client he once had on his GetRussianWife YouTube video (pt 4) likely spent far more time and money that Spectris, which incidentally is no longer available along with my post, unbeknowngst to me, on this thread. 

...I fail to see where paying for dates from an agency can be considered any measure of success. Please help me out here

I choose to see it in the same manner as Spectris actually.
 
A man can 'pay' a fee for service providers/agencies prior to a trip, correspond with one, or a few, then make the trip, go on a 'date', or 'dates', to see if there's any connection in person. OR, make the trip, pay an agency or service provider once they get there, then go on a date, or dates, to see if there's any connection. While it may appear as though there isn't much difference in these two approaches, IMO, there actually is a HUGE difference between the two.
 
For me personally, and without saying any other way won't work, I'd reserve any emotional outlay until I meet the woman in person as opposed to the other way around. In a way, that's what I did.
 
Just as important, it also gives the woman an opportunity to 'see' you in person before making any type of investment either in time or emotions.
 
From Spectris' POV, it just so happen none of the ladies he actually spent time with IN person measured up with the lady he now share a relationship with. I believe that simply *knowing* this, is success in itself. It would be for me. Had I not 'met' my wife on my first trip and met someone else in her place I didn't particularly 'liked', I likely would be married to a home grown variety with the *understanding* I tried this venture and gotten closure. "Been there, done that, just ain't for me" That, in itself can be a measure of success to me.
 
Folks need to be extra careful equating spending money for the process automatically must mean he has to be married to a FSUW.

[Faux Pas]

No one is guaranteed ANY chance of success - however that is measured/defined - AND, it may be a very individual definition, which is quite alright. The ONLY guarantee is that if someone sits on the sidelines forever, they will NOT achieve ANY measure of success. The old adage about having to be IN the game to have ANY possibility of winning the game applies. Whether a person chooses to utilize an agency or not is an individual choice. There is the unequivocal fact that some/many who are married met their spouse through an agency (ref the Cross-Cultural Marriage Survey for supporting stats). To be "paying for dates from an agency" at least puts a person in the position of meeting someone who may become their spouse. Sitting at home, OTOH, assures a person of never being in the position of *meeting* someone who may become their spouse.

Wasn't that the gist of the OP - to encourage people to get off their duff?

- Dan

Who said anything about a guarantee? Success is surely subjective but, by most measures isn't it positive results through one's efforts? The gist of the OP is subjective too I suppose. I read it to encourage to "just go", show up at the agencies and date. Here is is opening

Talk and talk and talk and...
 
Well anyway, if someone reading this is really serious about finding someone in the FSU - my advice based on 5 trips over the past 2 years is JUST GO.  Contact some agencies in the city or cities you want to go to beforehand - because you really do need some plan (it's stupid to TRULY just show up - you DO need some plan, trust me on this), but don't spend much time online emailing and chatting,

I'm not in the camp that would encourage this, for someone "really serious" about finding someone in the FSU. I'm not stating people do not find success through such methods. Please point me to where I did? Obviously there are many who met and married through agencies. An undeniable fact. Through the years it would appear agencies have become less and less reliable to do so. That too is a fact. I didn't make it up. The OP by his own admission has made 5 trips, spent uncounted money and had no relationship as a result.

He believes it and just by virtue of him believing it and experienced it gives him every right to pass it off as sound advice. I don't fault him that. However, there is other advice that says be weary newbies. This may not be the best approach. Getting off one's duff is certainly the first action that needs to happen. Where did I disagree with that?

FP, what is your definition of success? 

As I just mentioned, the definition of success is subjective. For me in the vein we are discussing, would be meeting women that lead to a relationship. Marriage or not isn't a criteria for success. If a guy wishes to go and have paid dates, then does, I suppose he's been successful no? Successful at paying for dates. I'd suggest staying at home for that  I am not attempting to bust spectris's balls here. I just find it a bit more than ironic, someone goes to the FSU to buy dates, passes it off as success and encourage others to do the same if they are "serious". It didn't work for spectris. IMHO, if it had, he'd probably dumped that beautiful woman he's got now, no?

[JohnDearGreen]

a) Guy A goes into store #1 shopping for a suit.  He buys the 1st one he tries on.
b) Guy B goes into 4 stores and tries on 20 suits and doesn't buy any.
I don't think you can conclude that the 4 stores and 20 suits were bad.
I don't think you would say Guy B wasted his time.


Some guys just like to shop around.

[Gator]

Some guys just like to shop around.

Excellent  analogy, but Pitino's suit is too much.     Instead, you need a song.  With your love for music, I can assume you were too young to recall Smokey Robinson singing "My Mama Told Me, You Better Shop Around." 

'A-gotta get yourself a bargain son
Don't be sold on the very first one
A-pretty girls come a dime a dozen
A-try to find one who's gonna give ya true lovin'
(Uh-huh...ooo)
'Before you take a girl and say I do now
A make sure she's in love with-a you now'
My mama told me
(You better shop around)

 

 

 

[noelscot]

Talk and talk and talk and...
 
Well anyway, if someone reading this is really serious about finding someone in the FSU - my advice based on 5 trips over the past 2 years is JUST GO.  Contact some agencies in the city or cities you want to go to beforehand - because you really do need some plan (it's stupid to TRULY just show up - you DO need some plan, trust me on this), but don't spend much time online emailing and chatting, I don't think I actually saw 25% of the women I emailed the first couple of times I went, - JUST GO and sit down w/ the agency and in person they will be honest with you because they know the women - and believe me, the fact that you are there, IN PERSON, will open all kinds of doors for you. However, you do absolutely need some electronic info about yourself readily available including pictures, bio, etc. - no one is going to meet you sight unseen.  Same for you right?
 
I've spent most of my time in Kiev - which is supposedly the most difficult place to meet someone in the Ukraine (not true btw) because its a big city and it is definitely more expensive than the rest of the country, but honestly nothing about this long distance dating is cheap - know that now.  But I will tell you most of the women I went out with (late 20's to early 40's) told me they had spent 100's of hours emailing and Skyping men, but most (all but 2 actually) had only met 0-3 in real life.  Honestly, several of the women I went out with had never been to dinner with a man arranged by the agency in the 6 months or 2 years or however long they've been registered there.  I won't delve into the online scammer thing, because if you fall for that then well - you get what you get, JUST GO and meet the women in person.  The agency system is not perfect, but I've found it to be very reliable IF YOU ARE THERE IN PERSON.  On the web/phone, whatever I think its dicey since it is a "for profit" endeavor - but face-to-face, I've had nothing but a good experience.
 
Anyway, somehow I lucked out and found an AW that is amazing so no more Ukraine trips for me any time soon, but if I wasn't with her, I would be back to Kiev on the next flight - the women there are sincere, attractive, highly intelligent and available if you are serious.
 
I mean really - if you truly aren't prepared to travel over there, why are you spending your time (and wasting their time) with this - JUST GO.

I don't necessarily agree with your methodology for meeting women via agencies, but I do wholeheartedly agree with your advice to "just go." It was not until I set a firm plan in motion to go to Ukraine in Summer 2012 that things really started clicking for me. A different mindset and aura surround a guy who is going to visit come hell or high water, than a guy who is aimlessly corresponding with women wasting time and energy. My criteria for success is that I develop a serious relationship which will lead to marriage and a big, happy family. Whether or not I am successful is a moot point, because nothing can happen if I do not "just go." If I try and fail, at least I tried. So "just go" is stellar advice. As Nick Saban says, "focus on the process," because proper fundamentals will produce successful outcomes more often than not. We have to execute every play and show up to the game just like a football team, or else we won't produce any positive results. And to play the game, first and foremost, we must show up. Great post! 

[Gator]

If a guy wishes to go and have paid dates, then does, I suppose he's been successful no? Successful at paying for dates. I'd suggest staying at home for that 

The man pays for the first meeting, about $25 five years ago.  Followup dates with that woman are free, assuming there is enough interest to warrant a date.
 

As I just mentioned, the definition of success is subjective. For me in the vein we are discussing, would be meeting women that lead to a relationship. Marriage or not isn't a criteria for success.

And such "success" could happen with a WNVM trip.  Who knows?  Superiority in numbers suggest it could happen.  To support your position, FP, while sitting around in an agency office and observing their operations, I came to the conclusion that the ratio of meeting::marriage was 100-1000::1. 

FP, you did it your way.  Spectris did it his way.  I am still doing it.    Everyone is different.  I assert the WNVM trip is a valid option. 

[Faux Pas]

And such "success" could happen with a WNVM trip.  Who knows?  Superiority in numbers suggest it could happen.  To support your position, FP, while sitting around in an agency office and observing their operations, I came to the conclusion that the ratio of meeting::marriage was 100-1000::1. 

FP, you did it your way.  Spectris did it his way.  I am still doing it.    Everyone is different.  I assert the WNVM trip is a valid option.

With that logic Gator, we know a guy or two that was successful marrying a woman from Anastasia, do we recommend Anastasia as the viable option?

FTR, I have nothing against anyone who chooses the WNVM route. Whatever floats your boat. It's a shotgun approach, while I prefer zeroing in with a rifle. Different strokes for different folks. Perhaps I am just too snooty in what I chose to recommend?

[Faux Pas]

It never once crossed my mind, FP. I had Eduard's post more in mind when he said this...

I stand corrected 
 

I choose to see it in the same manner as Spectris actually.
 
A man can 'pay' a fee for service providers/agencies prior to a trip, correspond with one, or a few, then make the trip, go on a 'date', or 'dates', to see if there's any connection in person. OR, make the trip, pay an agency or service provider once they get there, then go on a date, or dates, to see if there's any connection. While it may appear as though there isn't much difference in these two approaches, IMO, there actually is a HUGE difference between the two.
 
For me personally, and without saying any other way won't work, I'd reserve any emotional outlay until I meet the woman in person as opposed to the other way around. In a way, that's what I did.
 
Just as important, it also gives the woman an opportunity to 'see' you in person before making any type of investment either in time or emotions.
 
From Spectris' POV, it just so happen none of the ladies he actually spent time with IN person measured up with the lady he now share a relationship with. I believe that simply *knowing* this, is success in itself. It would be for me. Had I not 'met' my wife on my first trip and met someone else in her place I didn't particularly 'liked', I likely would be married to a home grown variety with the *understanding* I tried this venture and gotten closure. "Been there, done that, just ain't for me" That, in itself can be a measure of success to me.
 
Folks need to be extra careful equating spending money for the process automatically must mean he has to be married to a FSUW.

This is were you and I are just wired differently. Emotional investment I see as a good virtue and worth investing even prior to a face to face meeting. If it turns out for nil then ca sera sera. I want to know a women I am going to meet has all the possibilities I seek. I don't know that qualifying them for that can be accomplished (to my personal satisfaction) by anyone other than me. IMHO, that encourages a good outcome. I had much rather start the culling process earlier and save us both time.

[Terran]

The letter writing at these small agencies is done by terps.  You email a letter to a woman in the agency catalog.  A terp calls the woman and reads your letter to her.  The terp takes a few notes based on her reaction and instruction, and the terp then composes a response and emails it to you.  The woman does not see your letter and she does not see your profile.   

Do you have evidence to support your claims? If i was running a business, that wouldnt be a very effective business model. It would be very time consuming to call each person every day, especially since now a days we have text translators. Just think if you had 1000 women that you looked after.Think about how many terps and how many hours would be constantly spent on the phone. That to me is a waste of time and no at all cost effective.

And think about this. If the gentleman and the lady talk by email and online chatting; and the lady never sees the email.... what happens if they share photos to one another? If she (as you say) never sees the email and later in a chat complements the guy or they talk about the photo? How do you explain this? If she never sees the email, she would never know about the photo.

I am not speaking from experience here... but it just doesnt make sense!

[alex330]

Do you have evidence to support your claims? If i was running a business, that wouldn't be a very effective business model. It would be very time consuming to call each person every day, especially since now a days we have text translators. Just think if you had 1000 women that you looked after.Think about how many terps and how many hours would be constantly spent on the phone. That to me is a waste of time and no at all cost effective.

Gator is correct. That is exactly how it works at most agencies. As mentioned earlier the dishonest agencies write letters without the women even knowing or for women that do not exist or were married years ago. It is very cost effective when the agency is raking in money and paying the interpreters very little. It is quite lucrative. There are literally armies of interpreters in certain cities. Think about all the women's profiles you see who studied philology, business, economics, etc. All these women took English in college and end up working as translators.
Each interpreter manages a group of women. Many times the women are her friends that she recruited.

I am very good friends with a guy married to an agency girl. I hear all the stories from the other side of the fence.

[Gator]

With that logic Gator, we know a guy or two that was successful marrying a woman from Anastasia, do we recommend Anastasia as the viable option?

Never!  It is important to vet the agency prior to showing up.  I mentioned this earlier. 

I want to know a women I am going to meet has all the possibilities I seek.

That is my preferred MO as well, short of building up high expectations. 
 

I had much rather start the culling process earlier and save us both time.

I tried WNVM only once.  It works.  And it does not waste the woman's time.   FSUW complain about Keyboard Romeos who never show.  For sure that does waste their time and it makes them jaded.
 
 

[Gator]

Do you have evidence to support your claims?

Just my eyeballs and ears.  I sat in the agency office and observed terps calling a woman when a letter arrived by email to the office.  Alex330 gives an excellent explanation.


The agency I visited charged a man $5.00 for each letter he sent.  The woman's reply was free.  The terp got paid about $0.50 to call the woman and write a response.  The terps were quick, and I believe they had a large inventory of canned phrases and sentences. They were turning around a letter in minutes.

If a woman wanted to see your photo, she had to come into the office.  And this was a reputable agency.  Imagine the notorious agencies.

[Patagonie]

Do you have evidence to support your claims? If i was running a business, that wouldnt be a very effective business model. It would be very time consuming to call each person every day, especially since now a days we have text translators. Just think if you had 1000 women that you looked after.Think about how many terps and how many hours would be constantly spent on the phone. That to me is a waste of time and no at all cost effective.

And think about this. If the gentleman and the lady talk by email and online chatting; and the lady never sees the email.... what happens if they share photos to one another? If she (as you say) never sees the email and later in a chat complements the guy or they talk about the photo? How do you explain this? If she never sees the email, she would never know about the photo.

I am not speaking from experience here... but it just doesnt make sense!

Gator and Alex are right, it happens like they said. In general the agency call the woman and tell her : a guy is here (or the guy who wrote you, you know the texan one from city X), he is tall, blond hair, skinny, etc... The agency send one or several photos perhaps, perhaps a little profile if the guy had given one and it's done. The lady says yes or no.
You are confusing emails business and guys who are knocking on the door of agencies, they are not tons each day. In fact i never  crossed a  guy in any office i entered.
But i have seen tons of letters on desks' offices....

[Faux Pas]

Do you have evidence to support your claims? If i was running a business, that wouldnt be a very effective business model. It would be very time consuming to call each person every day, especially since now a days we have text translators. Just think if you had 1000 women that you looked after.Think about how many terps and how many hours would be constantly spent on the phone. That to me is a waste of time and no at all cost effective.

The longer you hang around the forums, and if you do make a trip to the FSU, you'll discover there is a hellava lot that doesn't make sense or fit squarely into your preconceived notions of the way "things ort'a be". Gator and Alex gave a pretty good interpretation of a decent/honest agency, just think how the dishonest ones likely operate. It is not unusual at all for Western men to believe they are communicating directly with a woman, when in fact, she likely doesn't even know who you are. The revenue streams in such an operation might surprise you.

And think about this. If the gentleman and the lady talk by email and online chatting; and the lady never sees the email.... what happens if they share photos to one another? If she (as you say) never sees the email and later in a chat complements the guy or they talk about the photo? How do you explain this? If she never sees the email, she would never know about the photo.

I am not speaking from experience here... but it just doesnt make sense!

Email and online chatting are much more susceptible to the slight of hand tricks of an agency. You're in denial. It doesn't make sense because you've bought in seemingly hook, line and sinker. It's not such a terrible thing and it doesn't make you a fool. You are paying for an online relationship and the agency is providing you one. You'll see on the boards again and again, get away from or stay away from the agencies and communicate directly with your prospective women.

[Patagonie]

From GQ

"For me personally, and without saying any other way won't work, I'd reserve any emotional outlay until I meet the woman in person as opposed to the other way around. In a way, that's what I did.
 
Just as important, it also gives the woman an opportunity to 'see' you in person before making any type of investment either in time or emotions.
 
From Spectris' POV, it just so happen none of the ladies he actually spent time with IN person measured up with the lady he now share a relationship with. I believe that simply *knowing* this, is success in itself. It would be for me. Had I not 'met' my wife on my first trip and met someone else in her place I didn't particularly 'liked', I likely would be married to a home grown variety with the *understanding* I tried this venture and gotten closure. "Been there, done that, just ain't for me" That, in itself can be a measure of success to me."

The main issue of long correspondance without seing the woman is the high emotionnal investissement you make on it.
Ok split the scammers, who are not so difficult to detect (reserve it for the idiots).
The problem is always that you can have no chemistry, you or/and she. Wich is pushing the level of failure high (in my opinion 75 %). So it is a crash and burn option.

I call myself into question lasts years and change my way to consider relationship with women, and it gives me a lot of benefit. I had  put too much emotion and investement where there was not or very few fews years ago.
The major plague in the relationships between men and women in the west (particulary) is that men are putting too much investement (emotionnal and financial) in women before they are interested (in case they are . For a large part men used to strike off at the canter and they often bite the dust.

One of the key of the success in the long course of finding your wife is to manage your emotionnal state. I would know how many guys are always on the saddle after four or five WOVO/WMVO crashes. I am pretty sure that these sorts of guys, especially WOVO/WMVO folks are not ready to go through four or five emotional crashes. Very fews would survive.
But i agree : if you and her have a crush after a long an emotionnal correspondance, well : DONE, i applaud. Love, marriage. Good.

On an other hand, if you don't invest feelings and emotion you are going nowhere.

[GQBlues]

....This is were you and I are just wired differently. Emotional investment I see as a good virtue and worth investing even prior to a face to face meeting. If it turns out for nil then ca sera sera. I want to know a women I am going to meet has all the possibilities I seek. I don't know that qualifying them for that can be accomplished (to my personal satisfaction) by anyone other than me. IMHO, that encourages a good outcome. I had much rather start the culling process earlier and save us both time.

I hear you, FP. Which is why I always state how important it is for men to understand who they are first, and what they can be comfortable with, before venturing forward into something like this. Their respective 'approaches' should suit their own personalities and individualities. To me, it's a failure to disregard this important factor.

Your way, my way, Spectris' way, etc...all works. I just never understood why this is one of the most debated aspect of this experience.

They all work! It's just that my way the best, is all...

[Terran]

Everyone here has some good arguements. Everyone here has their own stories of success and failure. But I guess when it comes to meeting someone, the best way is to "just go" and meet them in person. It is alot harder to hide yourself in person than using a computer. But i do agree, agencies do look for profit in any and all areas and it is best to communicate directly if possible.

For me my first trip to Ukraine will be June 15 of this year. I will be spending 33 days in Ukraine. Plenty of time to meet people and be a tourist.