Russian/Ukraine Women. Woman's Age & The issue of Children

[bhayes30]

Its been a while since i posted anything. but this online memo about who issue of having children was a real eye opener for me.

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12805


I will get to the point. I'm very attracted to russian and ukraine women. But i really don't want to have any children. I only want marriage.

let me say this. I don't hate kids. And i don't hate the idea of good family relations. Its just that i've had negative family experiences most of my life, And i just turned 29. My immediate family as well as extended family is very dysfunctional and i didn't enjoy my childhood-teenhood. Heck i didn't even enjoy my early 20's. i've also hadto take alot of emotional and verbal abuse from parents/family. I have been give nthe opportunity to return to business school. And it looks like i may have a successful career.

BUt I just really want to enjoy the remainder of my life. Aside from doing physical fitness and having a career, i want to do serious charity work too o and focus on doing positve things. And i feel that by doing that i will build strong relationships with people that will heal the wounds from my negative family experiences.

and i just want to find that idealistic woman whoi can fit into that situation.

and with added expense and sacrifice of raising children today and all the other things that winston brought up in this memo above.

But i have a huge problem. i see now that FSU women are very family oriented. I accept the fact that its apart of their culture. having babies.

I had a guy who runs a marriage/dating agency explain to me that marrying a girl in her 20's and not having babies is out of the question. He did say however i should aim at women in their middle 30's. he explained that because in the russian/ukraine culture women consider 30 years old to be an OLD age.

and by then a woman will less likely want to have a child when she gets in that range. Is that a good rationalization?

recently a guy who runs a dating agency in Poltava Ukraine did me favor. He connected me with a girl who was leaving his website/database. And

essentially after talking with her for a few weeks. i brought up my feelings about not having kids. She got very offended and stopped communicating with me. And even the matchmaker guy got alittle upset and tried to talk me out of my decision to not have babies.

So my overall question is this.

Am I wasting my time trying to get an attractive russian/ukraine woman in her middle 30's who doesn't have a problem with not having kids?

i'm attracted to russian/ukraine because i figure my chances of having a beautiful woman with great personality and other qualities is greater. But if i cannot get around the children issue then

Should i look at other cultures instead of the FSU?

Should i try to get a woman who has a career as opposed to the small town woman?

i only ask because i'm learning russian language right now and i really want to get to know if i'm wasting my time.http://[/b]

i also notice something. The really attractive russian and ukraine women who are in their mid 30's usually are single mothers looking for a man. is what i want unreasonable?

[Lily]

You are not wasting your time, but as you have seen, many Russians believe that this desire is not 'right' and hope that you may want to change your mind about having kids. On my part, I don't know any woman who has the same vision of her life as you do.
 

[bhayes30]

You are not wasting your time, but as you have seen, many Russians believe that this desire is not 'right' and hope that you may want to change your mind about having kids. On my part, I don't know any woman who has the same vision of her life as you do.

thank you for the encouragement. It means alot coming from a woman from russia. I'm glad that you weren't overly negative or angry and offended like others have been.

so many people have either been discouraging, deeply offended or they have wrong info and telling me that it won't be a problem when they really don't know the russian/ukranian culture very well.

i accept that this will not be easy. i'm prepared to work and be patient with this. I'm prepared to make the investment in SEARCHING for the type of woman i desire. and i have a strong feeling she is out there. i feel she exists.

i figure if i work with a matchmaking company over there or possibly a marriage agency that has a decent reputation, and i explain my situation that they can help me save alot of time and save me the trouble of offending people. i feel they would help me single out those type of women who would comply with my desire to not have children.

it would be great to find a beautiful exotic younger girl in her 20's to do this with but i accept that in the slavic culture for the young girl, its out of the question. i can accept that. i'm not upset. i respect ukraine russian women very much.

i mean i could get lucky but i'm not set on that. I've seen video footage and photos really beautiful youthful looking single slavic women in their late 30's. i can work with that.

infact Lily, if that is your picture there as your avatar,you look pretty attractive yourself.


i guess a woman who has had similar negative family experiences like myself would understand me better.

And i can understand why its hard for people in eastern europe to understand

thanks for replying

[TwoBitBandit]

Its been a while since i posted anything. but this online memo about who issue of having children was a real eye opener for me.

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12805

OMFG!  If you want to do just one thing right, make it be to immediately stop taking advice from Winston Wu.  My God what a douchebag.

[pitbull]

bhayes,
 
1. There are RW, even young ones, who are child-free. There are online Russian-language child-free forums, and internet communities (a place to search for like-minded RW maybe?) It will not be easy to find a young beautiful FSUW who is child-free, I'd say slightly harder than the same type of AW (why not AW though, you are young?)
2. If your heart is set on a RW, you should be very upfront about the no-kids issue. State in your profile that you are child-free (do u have one on EM)? This way you'll save yourself and other RW a lot of time. Telling this to a woman after weeks of communication doesn't do you or her any good.
3. If you find a young child-free girl in her early twenties, there is a good chance she will change her opinion by early thirties. Biological clock, you know. You might indeed go for a RW in her late thirties if you want a "sure bet".
4. It is likely that you traumatic family experience will translate into a disfunctional marriage/relationship issues. I recommend you go to a good psychologist and work those issues through before you take this whole "international marriage" thing on full speed.
 
Finally, there is nothing bad or shameful in being child-free, it is just a personal choice, no worse or better than other kinds of personal choices. You just need to find that like-minded woman.
 
 
 

[pitbull]

bhayes, one more question"
 
Do you speak German?

[Ade]

bhayes,
 
1. There are RW, even young ones, who are child-free. There are online Russian-language child-free forums, and internet communities (a place to search for like-minded RW maybe?) It will not be easy to find a young beautiful FSUW who is child-free, I'd say slightly harder than the same type of AW (why not AW though, you are young?)
2. If your heart is set on a RW, you should be very upfront about the no-kids issue. State in your profile that you are child-free (do u have one on EM)? This way you'll save yourself and other RW a lot of time. Telling this to a woman after weeks of communication doesn't do you or her any good.
3. If you find a young child-free girl in her early twenties, there is a good chance she will change her opinion by early thirties. Biological clock, you know. You might indeed go for a RW in her late thirties if you want a "sure bet".
4. It is likely that you traumatic family experience will translate into a disfunctional marriage/relationship issues. I recommend you go to a good psychologist and work those issues through before you take this whole "international marriage" thing on full speed.
 
Finally, there is nothing bad or shameful in being child-free, it is just a personal choice, no worse or better than other kinds of personal choices. You just need to find that like-minded woman.

 +1

I'd also say that you need to be careful you don't get into a relationship with someone that claims they don't want kids when they aren't sure, and are convinced they can change your mind, if they change theirs...

I also think you should seriously consider counselling. If you've had such trauma in your life you need to deal with it and heal. Don't get me wrong, at your age I said exactly the same thing, "never having kids" although I said it for entirely different reasons, so I understand the point of view, but the choice is only a good one if the reasons are sensible and rational. Not wanting kids just because you were abused isn't a particularly good one if you ask me, and hints at unresolved issues that will hurt or hinder your relationships in the long run.

[Maxx2]

OMFG!  If you want to do just one thing right, make it be to immediately stop taking advice from Winston Wu.  My God what a douchebag.

Seems like a perfectly normal guy to me


 

[Patagonie]

bhayes,
 
1. There are RW, even young ones, who are child-free. There are online Russian-language child-free forums, and internet communities (a place to search for like-minded RW maybe?) It will not be easy to find a young beautiful FSUW who is child-free, I'd say slightly harder than the same type of AW (why not AW though, you are young?)
2. If your heart is set on a RW, you should be very upfront about the no-kids issue. State in your profile that you are child-free (do u have one on EM)? This way you'll save yourself and other RW a lot of time. Telling this to a woman after weeks of communication doesn't do you or her any good.
3. If you find a young child-free girl in her early twenties, there is a good chance she will change her opinion by early thirties. Biological clock, you know. You might indeed go for a RW in her late thirties if you want a "sure bet".
4. It is likely that you traumatic family experience will translate into a disfunctional marriage/relationship issues. I recommend you go to a good psychologist and work those issues through before you take this whole "international marriage" thing on full speed.
 
Finally, there is nothing bad or shameful in being child-free, it is just a personal choice, no worse or better than other kinds of personal choices. You just need to find that like-minded woman.

+1

"4/ It is likely that you traumatic family experience will translate into a disfunctional marriage/relationship issues. I recommend you go to a good psychologist and work those issues through before you take this whole "international marriage" thing on full speed"

I had had also some issue with a  disfunctional family and i have worked hard, very hard, a long time to get out from (with the aid of a specialist) and was having exactly the same type of opinion about childrens. Now i have changed. You need to be in peace and solve your personals problems with your parents. It's one of the most important step in a human life.
You have time, you are young, don't hurry.

[bhayes30]

Thanks for the positive advice everyone. i appreciate it. i really do.  I only used Winston Wu essay because it made sense, the ideas he was trying to express. Sure i don't agree with everything he does, but he is right about the child issue.

Its just that when i look back on my youth (childhood,teen years, early 20's) i can't say that i enjoyed any aspect of it. Most of this is because of family. Not just my parents. but other short-comings have made me feel like i missed out on something. And i have a huge desire to do something artistic and creative that requires time, money and effort.

Also as a kid i watched my grandmother disrespect and verbally abuse my mother during her divorce from my father. My grandmother verbally and physically abuse my mother as a kid. This had an impact on her as a woman. And she turned out to be a terrible wife and was a horrible mother to me and my brother.

But before my brother and i were born, my mother believed that if she had kids and moved my grandmother closer to her grandchildren (myself and my brother) that her mother would learn to respect her. Wrong! growing up i always saw my mother and grandmother get into nasty arguements about the dysfunction in the family. It was sad to watch too. My grandmother is a real witch. And its sad too because my mother is following in her footsteps.

And now my grandparents are in bad health. My mother is their legal guardian or whatever its called. And they act very nasty to her. One thing i say alot is that when my mother was my age. she had an opportunity to create some roadblocks and move on but she didn't do that. And now i know that she regrets it.

And i really believe that family is really all about sharing your wife and kids with other people. right? i know that i would have similar issues if i brought grandchildren into the equation.

its odd too. Similiar problems happened between my grandmother and her mother.

But i will say that my parents verbally and emotionally abused me. They still try to even now. And now they are ranting about how the "expect" some grandchildren. After all the crap they put me thru how dare they!

I like the idea of having a family. i like the idea of what a family can be. I actually like the old american family tv shows from the 70s & 80's. But i have really done some personal accounting and really put the price tag and time investment it takes to raise babies. And with todays economy its rough man!

so i ask myself is it worth it for me? Do i want my dreams to become a reality? or do i want to feel upset and depressed about things i don't have control over?

i can honestly say had i had a better family foundation and had a less dysfunctional family, i would feel different. Aside from having a career, i have some serious physical fitness goals, not just weight lifting but other endeavors that require alot of time and effort. Aside from having a career i want to do charity work on the side as well as positive things to uplift myself.

And i want to have enough $$$ to do some things for myself that i have always wanted to do. things i need and deserve.

As far as therapy goes. I have read alot of self-help book and i still do now and i do meditation too And i have a mature outlook on my life and situation. So that isn't necessary at this stage. I'm not a crazy nut.

And the way i figure. It will already be costly enough to bring a woman over here.

But either way i accept the fact that it will be really hard for me to pull this off, but i believe that its possible.

[pitbull]

Nevermind.

Just read  the OP's previous posts.

Advice update: on behalf on all FSUW - please do us all a huge favor and leave RW alone

[bhayes30]

Nevermind.

Just read  the OP's previous posts.

Advice update: on behalf on all FSUW - please do us all a huge favor and leave RW alone

excuse me sir, but is the rude tone necessary? or are you always this polite?  you started out saying something positive, then you decided to get rude. i wonder why? too much time on your hands? or do you just like being rude to people who have a different opinion than you?

Since i won't be missed - i think i do you a favor and not ask questions here. to all those who said something positive thanks. to all those who are rude just for the sake of being rude 

[Ade]

excuse me sir, but is the rude tone necessary? or are you always this polite?  you started out saying something positive, then you decided to get rude. i wonder why? too much time on your hands? or do you just like being rude to people who have a different opinion than you?

Since i won't be missed - i think i do you a favor and not ask questions here. to all those who said something positive thanks. to all those who are rude just for the sake of being rude 

I think you'll find that "Sir" is a Russian "Her".

I tend to agree with her too.

[Gator]

you started out saying something positive, then you decided to get rude. i wonder why?

Pitbull is a woman, a RW.  I believe she is telling you to avoid the FSU until you have addressed fully your unresolved personal issues.  These issues will interfere with having a loving relationship, something very important before uprooting a FSUW from her country, family, friends and culture, all that is dear to her.

RW tend to be direct and Pitbull particularly so.  Her comment seemed to upset you, so be forewarned.
I agree with Pitbull as it seems you are wrestling with some history that interferes with your personal relationships.  If that is the case, stay home and first deal with those issues.  Betrayal of trust in childhood leaves a scar.
 
How are you doing with AW?  I hope you are not thinking about RW because you believe they will be different from AW.   You wrote, "  i just want to find that idealistic woman who i can fit into that situation." RW are pretty and slender, but they are not idealistic.  They can be very difficult at times, yet the qualities that can make them difficult are the same ones that attract me to them. 

 

Since i won't be missed - i think i do you a favor and not ask questions here.

Such pouting is not attractive to RW.  They want a strong man, a resolute man. 

[pitbull]

Pitbull is a woman, a RW.  I believe she is telling you to avoid the FSU until you have addressed fully your unresolved personal issues.  These issues will interfere with having a loving relationship, something very important before uprooting a FSUW from her country, family, friends and culture, all that is dear to her.

Gator,
 
Here are the quotes from the OP's previous posts that made me change my mind (not child-free status, not even his psychological trauma). From the quotes below we are potentially looking at an emotionally unstable control-freek, the perfect example of the worst RW-seekers: damaged on many levels, psychiatrically questionable, controlling social misfits. I've read too many horror stories on the RW abroad forums that involve this exact type of men.
 
Is this freaky or what???:
 
"well i have this belief that if she doesn't have any exposure to english then she has no sense of american culture at all which is a plus for me. ideally i would love to meet a girl have a relationship with her, get married in the US and then we would move over to germany permenantly.

that way, she would still atleast be in europe.

i want a woman who has had little to no exposure to american culture . there's no need for a american women suck, rant. i have had many friends warn me about exposing a beautiful foreign woman to american culture. if she can't understand english then it won't even be an issue. i won't worry about anything.

infact i would want to play in instrumental role in teaching her english so that i can mold her into the woman/wife i want her to be for me."


" would ideally want a woman from a smaller town. why? because i like the idea that she could be happy living on a dirt floor if she had to. ofcourse if she married me, that would NOT be the case. but that is the type of humble, hardworking - beautiful woman i need."


this is not an issue of control. its about the fact that what does she feel her role in the relationship. If her #1 priorty is to keep her man happy, then that would be the only kind of control i want.

[BC]

Gator,
 
Here are the quotes from the OP's previous posts that made me change my mind (not child-free status, not even his psychological trauma). From the quotes below we are potentially looking at an emotionally unstable control-freek, the perfect example of the worst RW-seekers: damaged on many levels, psychiatrically questionable, controlling social misfits. I've read too many horror stories on the RW abroad forums that involve this exact type of men.
 
Is this freaky or what???:
 
"well i have this belief that if she doesn't have any exposure to english then she has no sense of american culture at all which is a plus for me. ideally i would love to meet a girl have a relationship with her, get married in the US and then we would move over to germany permenantly.

that way, she would still atleast be in europe.

i want a woman who has had little to no exposure to american culture . there's no need for a american women suck, rant. i have had many friends warn me about exposing a beautiful foreign woman to american culture. if she can't understand english then it won't even be an issue. i won't worry about anything.

infact i would want to play in instrumental role in teaching her english so that i can mold her into the woman/wife i want her to be for me."


" would ideally want a woman from a smaller town. why? because i like the idea that she could be happy living on a dirt floor if she had to. ofcourse if she married me, that would NOT be the case. but that is the type of humble, hardworking - beautiful woman i need."


this is not an issue of control. its about the fact that what does she feel her role in the relationship. If her #1 priorty is to keep her man happy, then that would be the only kind of control i want.

Shades of BillyB.

[bhayes30]

Gator,
 
Here are the quotes from the OP's previous posts that made me change my mind (not child-free status, not even his psychological trauma). From the quotes below we are potentially looking at an emotionally unstable control-freek, the perfect example of the worst RW-seekers: damaged on many levels, psychiatrically questionable, controlling social misfits. I've read too many horror stories on the RW abroad forums that involve this exact type of men.
 
Is this freaky or what???:
 
"well i have this belief that if she doesn't have any exposure to english then she has no sense of american culture at all which is a plus for me. ideally i would love to meet a girl have a relationship with her, get married in the US and then we would move over to germany permenantly.

that way, she would still atleast be in europe.

i want a woman who has had little to no exposure to american culture . there's no need for a american women suck, rant. i have had many friends warn me about exposing a beautiful foreign woman to american culture. if she can't understand english then it won't even be an issue. i won't worry about anything.

infact i would want to play in instrumental role in teaching her english so that i can mold her into the woman/wife i want her to be for me."


" would ideally want a woman from a smaller town. why? because i like the idea that she could be happy living on a dirt floor if she had to. ofcourse if she married me, that would NOT be the case. but that is the type of humble, hardworking - beautiful woman i need."


this is not an issue of control. its about the fact that what does she feel her role in the relationship. If her #1 priorty is to keep her man happy, then that would be the only kind of control i want.

ok. i play ball. First off. what type of woman calls herself PITBULL. YOU started out positive then you decidedto get cynical.
 
maybe you look like one, maybe you own one, maybe you act like a pitbull or maybe pitbull is your favorite rap artist. But i wouldn't know because the way you are acting towards me, made me think you were a man who is acting like a jerk.

does a man not have the right to change his mind? Why do you not take after Lily and be nice. She said something positive but was brutally honest with me about how what i'm trying to do will be hard.

i mean once again, i don't come here that often.

We are all human beings, and we all have issues. I have highlighted what my issues are. But clearly it is being used against me just for mere entertainment.

  i have some job opportunities in germany in the field of IT and i was just looking at my options.  i was in a different state of mind when i typed that message. i mean why do you feel the need to go thru something i posted months ago and use it againts me now to make the point that you think that i'm a crazy person who has psycho issues? i mean is that really necessary?  Do you not have a life?o you need a man? are you married? do you have any kids? if you do please go tend to them. Please!

and stop making it a priority to make me feel bad just for asking a question.

there is an old saying. if you can't say something nice, don't say anything. clearly you and some of the other folks who post here don't understand that concept.

i heard things about this forum but i see that its lived up to its reputation.i think its time for me to delete my profile and just read posts instead of making them.

have a nice day.

Lily thanks for saying something positive but keeping it real.

[Faux Pas]

Shades of BillyB.

My thoughts exactly.

Pitbull, this does seem to be very close to Billy's general thoughts on life and women yet you were pretty warm and encouraging to him. Whats the difference in these two men?

[pitbull]

My thoughts exactly.

Pitbull, this does seem to be very close to Billy's general thoughts on life and women yet you were pretty warm and encouraging to him. Whats the difference in these two men?

Hmmm... I am not particularly fond of Billy, I just really like his girl
 
I guess the difference is that Billy, with all the things I don't agree with, is very consistent, and gives an impression of a mentally stable personality. Plus experience and (if we believe his words) consistent success with women. I can see a type of women he can attract for consistency of character, reliability and confidence.
 
The OP on the other hand is mentally  erratic and displays incoherences and outright crazy ideas, plus doesn't seem to be able to hold a relationship, and has too many personal issues he needs to deal with asap (add propensity to being controlling to the coctail). I've witnessed really bad outcomes of international marriages (for RW) with men of his type.
 
There is also a general feeling/RW intuition if you will.
 
Disclaimer: If anyone strongly objects to me judging the OP based on his posts only, they are welcome to retaliate and judge my character based on my posts only. I'm not really sensitive.

[Gator]

Shades of BillyB.

Shades?  There is some resemblance with regard to controlling the development of his woman.  Yet, there is more than that at issue.   

I see BillyB as just one standard deviation off the mean.  bhayes30 is in the range 2-3 standard deviations based on what we have seen so far.
We have seen very little of bhayes30 and if we had more history with him I may have a different opinion.
 
Back to BillyB.   BillyB is a proud American.  He has never voiced disrespect of AW. 

I have never seen BillyB pout.  BillyB is not querulous.  Some anger, yes, and perhaps justifiable considering the personal attacks directed at him.   

I have never seen wide swings in BillyB's persona.  BillyB established a stretch goal for himself and then worked relentlessly at achieving it. 

Etc., etc., etc.
   

[Gator]

 
bhayes,
Just wondering if your first name is Rutherford.

Anyway, you wrote some incredible thoughts:

i want a woman who has had little to no exposure to american culture
. there's no need for a american women suck, rant. i have had many friends warn
me about exposing a beautiful foreign woman to american culture. if she can't
understand english then it won't even be an issue. i won't worry about
anything.

If you are  considering RW because you have problems in relationships with AW, you indeed have a problem that needs to be resolved before you mess up the life of some  naive young FSUW.  And your life would suffer as well. 

infact i would want to play in instrumental role in teaching her
english so that i can mold her into the woman/wife i want her to be for
me......this is not an issue of control. its about the fact that what does she feel her role in the relationship."

 
Correction, this indeed is contol.  In fact, this is ultimate control.  Controlling behavior creates  problems.  You spoke about such with regard to your parents and grandparents.

If her #1 priorty is to keep her man happy, then that would be the only kind of
control i want.

Such a woman is a slave , not a wife.    You don't even want for her to have a baby so that she can direct all her energy and emotions towards you.  The energy and emotions may be in the form of intense anger, perhaps violence. 
 
 
 
 

[Faux Pas]

Hmmm... I am not particularly fond of Billy, I just really like his girl
 
I guess the difference is that Billy, with all the things I don't agree with, is very consistent, and gives an impression of a mentally stable personality. Plus experience and (if we believe his words) consistent success with women. I can see a type of women he can attract for consistency of character, reliability and confidence.
 
The OP on the other hand is mentally  erratic and displays incoherences and outright crazy ideas, plus doesn't seem to be able to hold a relationship, and has too many personal issues he needs to deal with asap (add propensity to being controlling to the coctail). I've witnessed really bad outcomes of international marriages (for RW) with men of his type.
 
There is also a general feeling/RW intuition if you will.
 
Disclaimer: If anyone strongly objects to me judging the OP based on his posts only, they are welcome to retaliate and judge my character based on my posts only. I'm not really sensitive.

Fair enough and thank you for that honest answer. I agree with you btw. One thing you didn't mention is the difference of ages in the two men. bhayes certainly has some deep emotional baggage but, his post scream immaturity as does Billy's mindset. Billy is beyond redemption or out growing it but, if you're feeling charitable, bhayes might can still be saved 

[Gator]

...if you're feeling charitable, bhayes might can still be saved 

Pitbull can perform a catharsis?

[Faux Pas]

Pitbull can perform a catharsis?

I have a feeling pitbull can do about anything she sets her mind to  Of course some mountains are just to high to climb

[GQBlues]

....Aside from having a career, i have some serious physical fitness goals, not just weight lifting but other endeavors that require alot of time and effort....

Such as what? Laying off the double-sized fries?
 
I'm with pitbull on this, and hope you consider this a *positive* post. You have deep-seeded issues. Get help before adding an unsuspecting person into your life.