scammed by yeva4u

[bruttus]

well, i learnt mine lesson

but, i don't care about the looks, if you look at here profille, there are better goodlooking girls then here
yes, she makes here pretty, but what woman doesn't

about the restaurants, its not expensive, if you go allone with the girl itself, but i had to pay for here friends also, becouse they all wanted to come
and if you lose +1000 gryar a day, it will become expencive, especially when you are there for 3 weeks

on the otherside, i never kissed the girl, toucht the girl, or annything else, so only trowing money away

[Gator]

on the otherside, i never kissed the girl, toucht the girl, or annything else, so only trowing money away

Oh boy!

Next time, make a move early.  If she likes you, she will respond warmly.  If she is scamming you, she may respond but not freely.

You mention that you have little experience.  So maybe you have to plan a move rather than let it just happen spontaneously.

Do this next time:  Walk with her in a park in the evening (or under some trees or along a river or anywhere not busy with people).  Stop walking, move in front of her, look into her eyes, hold her shoulders and lean in for a kiss.  Not "touching" as in the boy-girl definition.  Touching is an activity only  after warm kissing.   So no molesting or groping.  Or did you mean touching as in holding her hand?

Do you wish to share why you have little dating experience?   Dependent upon your reasons, I can agree with ML that dating FSUW is a good way to gain some experience. 

[Daveman]

well, i learnt mine lesson

that's the silver lining...

but, i don't care about the looks, if you look at here profille, there are better goodlooking girls then here
yes, she makes here pretty, but what woman doesn't

exactly, what woman doesn't?

about the restaurants, its not expensive, if you go allone with the girl itself, but i had to pay for here friends also, becouse they all wanted to come
and if you lose +1000 gryar a day, it will become expencive, especially when you are there for 3 weeks

how did you 'lose'? it seems to me that you made a choice to pay when you also could have made a choice to say "no", right?  What do you see as your responsibility in all of this? 

on the otherside, i never kissed the girl, toucht the girl, or annything else, so only trowing money away

Did you attempt to "make a move"? or just sit around blowing money hoping she'd take the lead?  If you had made a move and were rejected, would that have changed your expectations and spending habits?


Look, I understand you are hurt, feeling injured, etc., but the lesson you appear to have learned may not be the one you really need to take away from this. No one *made* you do anything.. you chose to do exactly what you did. You didn't get whatever result you wanted.  You can blame them all you want (and I am not saying they are blameless) but responsibility ultimately rests on your shoulders. 


Let the blame go... learn the lessons and move forward in a more productive way.

[bruttus]

try't several times to make a move, but i had always the impression that she didn't wated that
so i thought culturedifrence,
but don't know how further to explain, if i was even allone with here, she was ice cold towards me, when there was someone with here, she acted difrently, warmer
a kiss, even touching here hand, she widrew it, but i was there in the winter, so not mutch walking hand in hand

in the summer, when we went somewhere, i was ignored most of the time, and when i was getting it on mine nerfs, about theyre photoshoots, thinking that they are models from a magazine, then they gave attention, becouse there where allot of times that i was planning to leave them, but do that in a country where almost no one speaks english, i din't had a clue what mine adres was from mine appartment

i said a couple times, that it was enough, and the last time that i did, becouse i didn't feel to go somewhere, and wanted to stay at the appartment, watching a movie, something that we had agreed, she phoned me, telling me to get ready, and i had to go out again in a restaurant.
mine opinion wasn't importante, what i said, it didn't count

like i said, they play it really smart; just enough attention, making someones head crazy with afterwards, fake promises, and they knew that i was stuck until mine departuredate
and yes i payed everything when we go somewhere, but i never asked something in return, its how i learned it by mine grandmother (raised by here), when i'm dating a girl.

and thats the problem, also, becouse, when i was there, i met a young couple, who i'm still friends with, and they told me more about things, what i didn't knew (when i was there or back home) and that was the main part, that they used me ( i still go out in the good of the people) on a legal way
 that and mine naivity is me to blaime

now in the meantime, i found out, that when she was with me, that she has a boyfriend, and still active is in yeva4u to chat
its not only here, its the entire agency, from that girl
every girl who is there with that agency, has a boyfriend, even the girlfriend of the head of that agency has is online on that site
the girls who are reall, aren't even serieus, they only do it for the money

this is just mine experience with them, how they do it, and like you said, i had the right to chose, so, it comes on me annyway, but i was fooled not to see it

[Doll]

I agree with both Russian girls in this thread- I don't see any scam.
You could say something and just take your date to eat out.
Playing on the feelings?  You paid the money willingly.
 
$70 for a night is a very good price.

[Doll]

now in the meantime, i found out, that when she was with me, that she has a boyfriend, and still active is in yeva4u to chat

So it is ok for you to date two women at a time and it is not ok for a girl?
Of course she is "active in chat"!
 

[bruttus]

i haven't said that i was dating 2 girls, only that the other girl wanted to know me better, becouse i was dating here best friend

you know what, let it be, but this i know, they know what they are doiing, becouse what i did, was complelty volunteerly, that is mine mistake
and they gonna do it again, becouse they do it legal
they don't ask money, they play on the feelings, so you give money to them out of pitty

[Doll]

Bruttus, the easy answer is- do not give money if you will complain later.
I know I am being rough but they actually did nothing wrong. You are tight with money- tell the woman and ask to pay her share or come without a friend.
Do not send money.
 

[bruttus]

well, for example, this is happend

i was there for the last time, and this time, read it correctly, i was there to meet a other girl
on here adres, it says dneprepotovsk, but a really weard accident, that girl lived in zaporozhye
now, when i was communicating with the other girl, i had NO contact with the other 2 girls
until the week before i came to ukraine itself, and suddenly they where planning to do things, and doiing excursions,i had nothing to say in it
in mine last day, i had some money left, and i wanted to do a small test, becouse now i was paying 5 people for theyre meal
elizaveta oyarand was telling that she wanted to go party the wholle night, before i leave to take mine plaine
i said sure, no thing, but money is almost gone, so its youre turn then to pay for the drinks, gues what happens
10 min later, i was back to mine appartment, and was beiing told, that the taxi comes verry early to pick me up
and from the 5 persons who was there, there was 2 men, 3 girls

and yes, i agree, i payed everything freely, but its how they did it
that i never had, in no other relationship with other girls

on a other moment, i had a fight with a other girl, becouse she told me that there where others also on the table who could pay a drink, but that girl was calmed down by marina, becouse i had more money with me then they had, that was here explenation

to bad that i had to keep mine promise to that young couple, becouse they where former employees from that agency, and according to there contract, they may have not anny contact with foreing man, even when they are fired
these 2 people told me everything, from the trip that they made to italie, payed by me freely becouse they told me that they wanted to come to mine country (and found a conversation from them about theyre trip with the bus, on vcontact)
and yes, it looks like it is mine foult, but they lied to me everytime so i pay it freely, becouse i believed them
internet 100 euro a month i saw here in the beginning 1h 1 time a week, when i was stopping to send money, it was 5 min, 1 time a week, and after a whille, it completly ended

[Spoon]

Bruttus, the easy answer is- do not give money if you will complain later.
I know I am being rough but they actually did nothing wrong. You are tight with money- tell the woman and ask to pay her share or come without a friend.
Do not send money.

Yes, technically true. But then again if I'm at the bus stop and a little old lady is getting mugged and I sit there whistling dixie, I too am 'technically' not doing anything wrong. Lets face it, she (they) were GTG's and in my book it's borderline 'money by deceit' which in a number of Countries is a crime.

I know, I know...it happens every day and will continue to be that way, but it doesn't take a genius to look at the situation and see who had more morals.

@ Bruttus - Tough lesson mate, but you've done all you can do, report it, now best to move forward Good luck

[bruttus]

thankx, i'm glad that someone looked at the situation about how it went
and that is what i wanted to tell, they deceit me everytime, so i pay freely
in legal terms they did nothing wrong, so, i can't do nothing about it, then just telling it like it is, and the only thing that i hope, is that more people who had the same situation like me, can report it also

becouse i believed theyre lies, that i gave money freely to them

and don't worry, i had a tough lesson to swallow, but i go further with mine life:)

[Patagonie]

Excuse me, your english is a pain, mine is not so good because i am not a native speaker, but i understand shit about what you write.
I would advice you to make phrases, and have a better presentation, punctuation and change of line.
and use as possible, consequently, why, because, if, or, also, however, neverthless, additionnaly, whatever, but, neither either,, despite .....
At this moment it's very difficult to understand what happened. You have not been scammed for the flat, for sure.

[Vasilisa]

Doll,  I think there was some  scam because they asked him for money before his arrival, too.

But I'd think about the situation this way: most girls are looking for a decent candidate for a husband, if the guy looks like he is greedy, mean, etc, they just use him to get something like some entertainment for their friends.

So if he wants to find the  girl for a serious relationship  I'd ask myself what makes me look like the man to be scammed but not like a great future husband.

From what he has written so far he sounds like a greedy guy who prefers to rent an apartment in a ghetto district  in the middle of nowhere just to save a couple of bucks,  it is of no importance to him if the lady is going to be in trouble getting there and from there/ Does he sound like he is in love?! To me he doesn't. A loving guy would care about the girl's comfort , security and how mch time he would be able to spend with her. He only thinks about how much bucks he had to spend and he spent an average sum of money.

He expects for the girls to pay. Ok, why not to ask her: are we having a party with your friends or a date? That's it, I'd pay for one party with a couple of friends, but if this happens over and over again just break up.

After all he comes to different  websites and is whining about how much money he has spent dating several girls and  this makes him look like a whiner.

Who wants a husband who can' t say "no", who is whining, who doesn't care about your security and after all mentions there were prettier girls on the website. That's sad and mean.

As I said I am not siding with the girls, they acted in a mean way, but it looks like both sides were  acting in a mean way.

I'd see it as money spent on a great dating lesson.

The thing about international dating is that you are supposed to have a great sense of humour, be cal and have realistic expectations,  be ready for trouble, misunderstandings, mistakes, a lot of people who are not going to be perfect, mean people, cultural difference, etc. If every time you have a date and don't like that the girl didn't pay but came with a friend you are going to run around the Net telling how mean the girls are spreading their personal information  you are going to finish the same way, someone can accuse you of slander or post your personal information with pictures in the Net, are you ready for that?!

[bruttus]

greedy, yes, i admit that
that i'm beiing ripped off for the appartment, no
but when i find annother appartment not far from the first one, and in a better neighberhood, with cleaner parks, and cheaper, what should you take (both where not far from the centre of the city)
so the personal wellbeiing of the girls really did mater to me

in love for that girl, how can i fall in love, when there is always someone with here, so i couldn't knowing here

expecting to pay yes, but when i said no, i was ignored, and it ended up that i was paying for it

[BdHvA]

Hi Bruttus,

Perhaps you can see the entire situation in the light of your expectations and hopes against what the woman's reality is. The reality is what you paid for the three weeks can be more than the women earn in three months. I might add if you can walk to say the Hermitage in 10 minutes than $70 is a reasonable price.

Most likely the women played on your hopes or dreams and they are like most women very good at ~ only it seems that some former Soviet Union ones are more polished. Yes there are beautiful women out there with a honest soul and a warm heart and that is the art in finding one.

You might to help clarify the situation add what the ages are of the players of this dance. As well as did you clearly speak of expectations and goals before getting on the plane.

BdHvA

[bruttus]

well, they are around 22, 23y old
i know, they are young, but, i'm 30y old

and yes, i found sutch a girl, that you speak off, i met here when i was visiting them, in the agency
she worked there, as a ""transluator"", together with here former boyfriend (thats the couple that i meant)
that was the first time, when i saw marina getting jealous, and had forbidden me to communicate with here on the net

i am still talking with them, but the agency may not know that i'm communicating with them, so a bad person i don't think that i'm so a bad person, like some see me, if they do all the troubles, and knowing that they get problems, to communicate with me

[Faux Pas]

Doll,  I think there was some  scam because they asked him for money before his arrival, too.

But I'd think about the situation this way: most girls are looking for a decent candidate for a husband, if the guy looks like he is greedy, mean, etc, they just use him to get something like some entertainment for their friends.

So if he wants to find the  girl for a serious relationship  I'd ask myself what makes me look like the man to be scammed but not like a great future husband.

From what he has written so far he sounds like a greedy guy who prefers to rent an apartment in a ghetto district  in the middle of nowhere just to save a couple of bucks,  it is of no importance to him if the lady is going to be in trouble getting there and from there/ Does he sound like he is in love?! To me he doesn't. A loving guy would care about the girl's comfort , security and how mch time he would be able to spend with her. He only thinks about how much bucks he had to spend and he spent an average sum of money.

He expects for the girls to pay. Ok, why not to ask her: are we having a party with your friends or a date? That's it, I'd pay for one party with a couple of friends, but if this happens over and over again just break up.

After all he comes to different  websites and is whining about how much money he has spent dating several girls and  this makes him look like a whiner.

Who wants a husband who can' t say "no", who is whining, who doesn't care about your security and after all mentions there were prettier girls on the website. That's sad and mean.

As I said I am not siding with the girls, they acted in a mean way, but it looks like both sides were  acting in a mean way.

I'd see it as money spent on a great dating lesson.

The thing about international dating is that you are supposed to have a great sense of humour, be cal and have realistic expectations,  be ready for trouble, misunderstandings, mistakes, a lot of people who are not going to be perfect, mean people, cultural difference, etc. If every time you have a date and don't like that the girl didn't pay but came with a friend you are going to run around the Net telling how mean the girls are spreading their personal information  you are going to finish the same way, someone can accuse you of slander or post your personal information with pictures in the Net, are you ready for that?!

These girls and the agency is a scamming operation. It's what they do. Please don't minimalize these girls and what they do. It's inexcusable. I think you are wrong about the OP. He didn't know any better. It was he, who has been taken advantaged of. There is an old cliche that "It takes two to Tango", one to lead and one to follow. The OP's contribution was being the human ATM machine for these Jezabels. He's inexperienced and a slow learner but his intentions were true. The women, not so much.

[bruttus]

Hi Bruttus,

Perhaps you can see the entire situation in the light of your expectations and hopes against what the woman's reality is. The reality is what you paid for the three weeks can be more than the women earn in three months. I might add if you can walk to say the Hermitage in 10 minutes than $70 is a reasonable price.

Most likely the women played on your hopes or dreams and they are like most women very good at ~ only it seems that some former Soviet Union ones are more polished. Yes there are beautiful women out there with a honest soul and a warm heart and that is the art in finding one.

You might to help clarify the situation add what the ages are of the players of this dance. As well as did you clearly speak of expectations and goals before getting on the plane.

BdHvA

well, mine expectations weren't not that high, when i came for the first time in ukraine
i thought to see whats it is, becouse it is the first time that i joined a datingsite, so i am not so experienced about this, nor neither how to act when i see a girl, who i met tru that agency, but neither the less, i came with honnest intentions

i mett here friend also on the site, but it was becouse marina was pushing me also, to knowing here, they are 2 best friends, so what i did
i made it cleare to that friend, that i don't have anny intentions to impres here, becouse i was seeing marina, but i accepted here as a friend
i wonder then, what i did wrong to accept someone's friend also here friendship to me

also, i want to clear, i'm a jealous type also, but i accepted also that i wasn't the only guy who marina was chatting at, something what she always denied to me, telling that i was the only guy for here (and i believed here) but i had mine thoughts about it

now, honnestly, those 2 other girls on this forum, i don't ask them to give me wright or wrong, but i tell you this, all that time, i ended mine communications with the other girls, and all that time, i didn't search for a other girl, not in mine own country, not in that agency (only at that time when we break up, i was searching again, and accepted marina as friend) or somewhere else
about that, i'm loyal, and you all can see what types of girls there in that agency (most of them looks like photomodels)

all that time, i received letters from 14925245, name anna, reall name anyuta ..., where i recently discoverd that she was the girlfriend of the head of the girls agency, from the first moment when i was communicating with 14925255
so don't tell me then that those girls, who know eachother, didn't had anny intentions to play with someones feelings and money
that was the mainreason annyway, becouse they get payed to do a videochat or reading/opening letters from men who didn't know about this

or lett me ask you this how manny find it normal, that i payed for everything, and beiing ignored for the rest of the time, whille they are acting like photomodels

[GoodOlBoy]

These girls and the agency is a scamming operation. It's what they do. Please don't minimalize these girls and what they do. It's inexcusable.

What FP has stated here about agencies in the FSU is an undeniable fact.
Whatever the RWD crowd thinks about the OP and his story is irrelevant.
 
GOB

[ML]

As happens quite frequently here, the WM men and FSU women often have different viewpoints.

But in this case, the viewpoints are so vastly different as to be virtually incomprehensible.

Yes, there are two sides to every story; but the sides simply cannot be as different as interpreted here.

[BdHvA]

Bruttus,

Faux Pas has said it like it is. A woman aged 23 or even 25 in St. Petersburg is like a teinermeisje in Braaschaat. What you do with your knowledge is your choice.  Were there actions to the West acceptable, no! To those in Russia and Ukraine it is business as usual. There are though women who would refuse to participate in these shenanigans, and that is the difficulty to find them

AvHdB

NB: There is a spell check option on RWD it would help if you used it.   

[Gator]

Brutus,
 
I will write you a long explanation to help you, not to get revenge but to become a  stronger man and thereby even more attactive to RW.

I guess you had a bad sinking feeling upon realizing that you were taken for a ride.  You felt pity for yourself, and then you became angry.  This is where you are now, trying to get some revenge.  You need to get over this soon. 

Feeling anger against the agency and the women does not help.  You will not progress beyond this until you feel sadness (not anger) towards the women who duped you.  They were the people who sold out to the black side of human nature.   They will perhaps never be punished and could go on to make a lot of money.  Yet think about what they are missing in life by not embracing the good side of human nature and instead corrupting their values.
 
There are charlatans (deceitful people selling you something) all over the world.  They prey on innocent victims.  These "bad" people use bait to attract their victims.  The bait is typically an opportunity to achieve a much higher return than normal on your investment:

-  Double your money in two years in real estate. 

-  Invest in a hedge fund that produces 25% per year returns.

-  Earn $100,000 fee for helping a prince in Nigeria expatriate his inheritance.

 
The common element is the innocent person's greed to obtain unrealistic returns on investment.  The unrealistic expectation does not need to involve money such as these two examples:
 
-   Take special pills and your penis will grow 10 cm longer in one month.

 
-   Go to Ukraine and just for being a "good man" a  beautiful young woman will fall in love with you. 
 

Here is the kicker.  These charlatans have no remorse.  They believe you are stupid and greedy, and as a stupid greedy person you deserve to be scammed.  In fact these bad people believe they are clever, and they brag about what they do.  They don't care about you and they never will. 

Good people do not understand it, yet it is the  greed (unrealistic expectations) of good people that gets them into trouble.   Blame only yourself.
[/b]

When you date a woman in Belgium, she will like you or not like you.  If she does not like you, she will not want to see you again.  When you date a woman in the FSU, some of the women operate by different rules.   They may have a boyfriend and thus can not be serious with you.  Or they simply may not like you.  However, this does not stop them from dating you again and again and spending your money (and taking your limited time).  Some women do this just for entertainment with their friends.  Others work you to receive gifts.  Some will get a commission.

You have seen in this thread one RW say it is okay for FSUW to take advantage of you.  This sentiment is not rare in the FSU.  In fact there is a sense of entitlement.   It starts with, "Buy me a gift." "Why?" "Because I am beautiful."  It eventually becomes, "I am beautiful and you are overweight so it is okay for me to have sex with my fitness instructor."   Avoid these women.   There are plenty of FSUW  who do not behave this way.  They are direct and will demonstrate if they like you.  Some are wanting to marry a man like you.
 

[Vasilisa]

These girls and the agency is a scamming operation. It's what they do.

Come on. If they had been professionals they would have played their roles of "serious women in love" in a better way without feeding a bunch of friends to make the potential husbands mad, they would have been sitting in the aiport with flowers and tears on their eyes, persuade the men they are not interested in their money at all, but what they are doing are trying to save their money.

[Vasilisa]

. The OP's contribution was being the human ATM machine for these Jezabels.

I know, but what were the girls for him?! Fiancees?! All of them at the same time?! 
It was not the first visit, he visited them all for the second time.

To me it doesn't sound like he had feelings towards any of them, so what were they for him?! Entertainment?!
But they entertained him , he had fun with a lot of beautiful girls.


You always pay for fun: when you go to an amusement park you pay, when you go to a circus you pay, when you get a massage you pay.

They entertained him, he paid.

What is he complaining about? What he expected prostitution or something, or was he going to marry all of them at the same time?! Then he was cheating, because he couldn't have married more than one but he expected the same serious attitude towards himself from all of them.

Summary: both sides are dirty.

[ML]

Gator, thanks for your elegant, logical and reasoned post.