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Author Topic: Reforming Russia?  (Read 108508 times)

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Offline ML

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #175 on: December 27, 2012, 01:02:08 PM »
Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election!  :clapping:  Congratulations America! You are fu*&ed. I can't imagine what this country is gonna look like after another 4 years of this administration. We certainly are living in an interesting time now.

I wonder if Vladimir and his boys had some real concerns about the future if Romney were to be elected.  They did ridicule him for being from the last century, etc., but wonder if they had some real worries also.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #176 on: December 27, 2012, 02:36:22 PM »
From a pure business and trade perspective they begrudgingly liked Romney. However, on the missile defense systems, a more pressing issue in their view, they cheered for Obama although Putin thinks very little of him personally.

In Obama's first visit to Moscow the Russians were mystified at why he needed hundreds of support staff, including personal chefs. "Isn't our food good enough?" was a whispered concern. "Does he think we will poison him?" The last world leader in Moscow who insisted on a chef bearing a thermos of private food wherever he ate was Joseph Stalin. To be fair, Obama did eat Kremlin prepared food at the Kremlin dinner and later at a breakfast with then-Prime Minister Putin, although on several occasions he seemed not to know whom was president and who was PM and miffed them with verbal gaffes.

By contrast when Mr. Medvedev or Mr Putin travel, and Russia remains a large world power, the travel entourage is a fraction of how Mr. Obama travels and neither Putin or Medvedev take spouses on state trips unless they've been invited to do so for the purposes of a formal state dinner, etc.

Bringing his entire family along, including children, was baffling to the Russians also. Personally I understood the family parade as for the children it might have been their only opportunity to travel to Moscow, walk inside the Kremlin palace where most Russian citizens will never visit in their lifetimes, etc.

Every US President visiting Russia has been granted the opportunity to make an address at Moscow State University as has each Secretary of State visiting Moscow. In his speech there Obama scolded Russia over the recent Georgian war, warned the Russians not to attempt to topple the Georgian government, told the Russians not to challenge Ukrainian sovereignty, and again made his case for the US missile defense installations in Poland. Those are significant issues to be sure but he had already discussed them in meetings with President Medvedev, PM Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov. Obviously he felt a need to address the Russian people about what had been discussed and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nonetheless, as you can imagine from the Kremlin perspective the speech went over like a lead balloon. Perhaps Mr Obama felt he could pull off the kind of oratory delivered on the same stage by Ronald Reagan in 1988 but if you look at the texts of both speeches, there is a world of difference. From the Russian view, perhaps Mr. Obama is no Ronald Reagan, teleprompter or not, when it comes to speeches.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 02:40:20 PM by mendeleyev »
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Offline jone

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #177 on: December 27, 2012, 04:54:41 PM »
When will the US leaders learn that to woo Russia, you are tough in the back room and give platitudes to the public.  It's so easy to understand.  Russians want you to act, like .... Russians.  That's what they would do. 

Every time I have been asked to make a toast (and it is a very common theme in eating in Russia for me) I always spend time extolling the virtues of the host.  Even if I am at odds, I find some aspect of their attitude that can be congratulated.

Can you imagine the Prime Minister coming to Georgetown or Harvard and telling the US to stay out of Mexico or Canada?

The US foreign policy is so wrong.  Let's get Kerry to issue a new Reset button and, again, be laughed at.

Hahahaha.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #178 on: December 27, 2012, 05:19:20 PM »
Quote
When will the US leaders learn that to woo Russia, you are tough in the back room and give platitudes to the public.  It's so easy to understand.  Russians want you to act, like .... Russians.  That's what they would do. 

Every time I have been asked to make a toast (and it is a very common theme in eating in Russia for me) I always spend time extolling the virtues of the host.  Even if I am at odds, I find some aspect of their attitude that can be congratulated.

Spot on.
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Offline cc3

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #179 on: December 28, 2012, 12:22:22 AM »
When will the US leaders learn that to woo Russia, you are tough in the back room and give platitudes to the public.  It's so easy to understand.  Russians want you to act, like .... Russians.  That's what they would do. 

Every time I have been asked to make a toast (and it is a very common theme in eating in Russia for me) I always spend time extolling the virtues of the host.  Even if I am at odds, I find some aspect of their attitude that can be congratulated.

Can you imagine the Prime Minister coming to Georgetown or Harvard and telling the US to stay out of Mexico or Canada?

The US foreign policy is so wrong.  Let's get Kerry to issue a new Reset button and, again, be laughed at.

Hahahaha.

+++1

Offline Larry1

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Re: Banning Americans from adopting Russian children
« Reply #180 on: December 29, 2012, 01:47:06 PM »
The Moscow Times's Yulia Latynina wrote this article about the coming ban on Americans adopting Russian children:

Quote
The State Duma is trying to retaliate for the Magnitsky Act by approving a bill to ban U.S. citizens from adopting Russian children. As the famous quote attributed to Louis Antoine de Bourbon states, "This is worse than a crime; it is a mistake."*  This mistake has caused a deeper division among the ruling elite — not society, mind you — than even the Pussy Riot case did. The man responsible for this mistake is none other than President Vladimir Putin. The difference between the two cases is that Putin cannot hide behind Patriarch Kirill this time.

According to various estimates, 50 to 95 percent of children who grow up in Russian orphanages become drug addicts or alcoholics or commit suicide. Russian orphanages essentially produce children who suffer from Mowgli Syndrome — that is, they are ill-equipped to function in any capacity in society.

Neither is the situation particularly rosy regarding Russian adoptive parents. According to official government statistics, a child adopted by Russian parents is 39 times more likely to die than one adopted by parents in the West. Of course, the causes of death include not only murder and involuntary manslaughter but also car accidents, illness and other factors. Unfortunately, even those statistics understate the problem because Russian courts often fail to initiate criminal proceedings when children are the victims of mistreatment or abuse.

For example, the dead bodies of girls 15 years old and younger were discovered in Nizhny Tagil in 2008. A prostitution ring had kidnapped the girls and murdered them when they refused to become prostitutes. In the end, not a single criminal charge was ever filed in the case. Similarly, no criminal investigation was opened when four young women disappeared in Kursk in 2001. Nine years later, a person walking his dog discovered their remains. The girls had been raped and murdered by four young men. But the killers were released, in part because one of them was the son-in-law of a local Federal Security Service agent.

In Orenburg, 26 children were reported missing, yet only one criminal case was opened. In Perm, not a single case was opened in connection with any of its 27 missing children. Obviously, the official statistic that a child is 39 times more likely to die if adopted by Russian parents is an understatement. We know that the real numbers are much higher.

And that also underscores the main difference between children's rights in Russia and the West. In the U.S., child abuse is a crime. In Russia, it is routine. Up to 60 percent of children in orphanages suffer abuse from their caregivers, and it is a rare occasion when someone serves prison time for crimes against children.

If a parent kills a child, both U.S. and Russian courts consider it the behavior of an individual psychopath. But when 60 percent of Russian orphans are abused by their caregivers, Russian "society" is blamed.

The Magnitsky Act has drawn attention to crimes Russian authorities had hoped they could conceal. Russian lawmakers have resorted to blatant lies to support their position. State Duma Deputy Yevgeny Fyodorov had the temerity to say that adopted Russian children are "slaves who are not even protected by U.S. law."

State Duma Deputy Svetlana Goryacheva went even further, saying,"60,000 children have been taken to the U.S. from Russia. And if even one-tenth of these orphans were used for organ transplants or sexual pleasure, there will remain 50,000 who can be recruited for war against Russia."

But the best comment yet in this charade came from archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, who said Russian children adopted by U.S. parents "do not go to heaven." What he failed to mention is that children who are not adopted and remain in Russia get to heaven much faster than they should — many before they reach 18.

The issue has divided society. It turns out that part of the Russian elite puts the motives of U.S. citizens on par with those of Osama bin Laden. And Putin is the driving force and inspiration behind this sick, warped perception.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/child-abuse-in-russia-is-routine/473633.html#ixzz2GTVV03OB

The remarks of Svetlana Goryacheva and Vsevolod Chaplin, quoted above, seem particularly stupid.

The author provides no citations for the statistics provided, so I have no idea whether they are correct.  In addition, I think it's fair to describe The Moscow Times as anti-Putin, which may provide some incentive to look for damning figures. 

*I have usually seen this translated into English as "It is worse than a crime. It is a blunder", which I think is the better version.  Also, it was not said by Louis Antoine de Bourbon, but rather was said by Talleyrand about  his murder on the orders of Napoleon Bonaparte.

I guess The Moscow Times doesn't yet have the tip-top fact-checking that The Mendeleyev Journal has. :)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 01:54:31 PM by Larry1 »

Offline calmissile

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Re: Banning Americans from adopting Russian children
« Reply #181 on: December 29, 2012, 03:25:03 PM »
The Moscow Times's Yulia Latynina wrote this article about the coming ban on Americans adopting Russian children:

The remarks of Svetlana Goryacheva and Vsevolod Chaplin, quoted above, seem particularly stupid.

The author provides no citations for the statistics provided, so I have no idea whether they are correct.  In addition, I think it's fair to describe The Moscow Times as anti-Putin, which may provide some incentive to look for damning figures. 

*I have usually seen this translated into English as "It is worse than a crime. It is a blunder", which I think is the better version.  Also, it was not said by Louis Antoine de Bourbon, but rather was said by Talleyrand about  his murder on the orders of Napoleon Bonaparte.

I guess The Moscow Times doesn't yet have the tip-top fact-checking that The Mendeleyev Journal has. :)

Perhaps Mendy can tell us if the quotes in the article are accurate.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #182 on: December 30, 2012, 10:48:02 PM »
Svetlana Goryacheva is a Duma member representing the Just Russia party. I did not find her quote outside the original article. Given that it came from the Moscow Times I'm thinking it accurate for general purposes.

Unfortunately in the case of ROC spokesman Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, he not only made those statements but the Church contradicted itself from just a couple days earlier when Chaplin had said the church regretted the ban and he branded the Duma members who voted for it as "beasts." Guess the Kremlin must have made a phone call.
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Offline Eduard

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #183 on: December 31, 2012, 03:26:49 PM »
this ban is so un  [size=78%]beliavable  [/size] :rolleyes:
Happy New Year to you and your family, Jim!
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #184 on: January 01, 2013, 10:39:05 AM »
To Ed, and everyone here, Самое лучшее поздравление с Новым Годом 2013!

As you can see below, earlier on New Year's day someone caught photos of Grandfather Frost and his granddaughter the Snow Maiden out delivering candy and small gifts to children.




Grandfather Frost is pulled by his "Troika" of 3 special horses.






There is a tradition that on the morning of the New Year the family goes out to the main city square to walk and greet others. It is a lovely tradition whether on Red Square in Moscow, Independence Square in Kyiv or wherever one lives, even in the villages.


« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 10:48:11 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline happyandstable

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #185 on: January 01, 2013, 10:52:12 AM »
Santa’s sleigh being pulled by three white horses what gives? I thought Russia was the home of reindeer. LOL Happy Holidays Mendy


Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #186 on: January 01, 2013, 03:34:46 PM »
Yes, Russia does have the best reindeer. Traditionally Grandfather Frost has and continues to use the time-honoured practice of the 3-horse troika. However as a capitalist these days, he rents his reindeer stock to his cousin the Western Santa Claus.

 :)
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Offline happyandstable

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #187 on: January 01, 2013, 03:45:54 PM »
      Thanks for the explanation. Good to know the decadent west can rely on Russia for a good supply of reindeer for Santa’s sleigh.  :clapping:

Offline Eduard

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #188 on: January 02, 2013, 08:43:10 AM »
Yes, Russia does have the best reindeer. Traditionally Grandfather Frost has and continues to use the time-honoured practice of the 3-horse troika. However as a capitalist these days, he rents his reindeer stock to his cousin the Western Santa Claus.

 :)
did you mean to say "However as a capitalist these days, he rents his reindeer stock to his Socialist cousin the Western Santa Claus" ?  :D
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #189 on: January 02, 2013, 10:06:57 AM »
 :)
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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #190 on: January 02, 2013, 10:17:25 AM »
this ban is so un beliavable :rolleyes:
Happy New Year to you and your family, Jim!
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #191 on: January 02, 2013, 03:13:11 PM »
Едвард, Самое лучшее поздравление с Новым Годом!
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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #192 on: January 04, 2013, 10:57:48 PM »
You're a good man, Jim! Wish you and your loved ones health, lot's of happiness, love and passion in this new year! 
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #193 on: February 11, 2013, 12:08:50 AM »
Moscow Times: A Moscow court on Saturday placed outspoken leftist opposition leader Sergei Udaltsov under house arrest in connection with criminal charges that he orchestrated anti-government riots last year. The ruling marks the first time since the rise of the opposition movement in December 2011 following disputed State Duma elections that a prominent anti-Kremlin figure has faced such a restriction.


Sergei Udaltsov at a Moscow protest rally. height=331

Sergei Udaltsov at a Moscow protest rally.

Udaltsov, leader of the Left Front, had been under travel restrictions since October but had repeatedly violated them, Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said Friday. His violations forced investigators to ask the court to limit his freedom further, Markin said.

Under the new restrictions, Udaltsov will be prevented until April 6 from leaving his Moscow apartment without permission, and from communicating with anyone except his family, lawyers, investigators or prison officials by any means, the Basmanny District Court ruled. On Friday, Udaltsov denied that he had violated the travel restrictions imposed on him in October, saying authorities were seeking to limit his public activism.

In a bizarre episode, the judge also said that Udaltsov and his wife, fellow activist Anastasia Udaltsova, fought frequently and that Udaltsova had left for Ukraine because of her husband's threats.

People in the courtroom burst into laughter at the claim, since Udaltsova was standing right in front of the judge at the time. She put her finger to her temple and turned it back and forth to indicate what she perceived as the absurdity of the statement.

Read more at the Moscow Times.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2013, 11:38:30 AM »
(Opinion) www.MendeleyevJournal.com

Russian officials complain that at any moment it is difficult to know where they stand in relationship to Washington. Thinking it to be a lack of respect instead of ineptitude, some in Moscow believe the USA simply doesn't find Russia to be worth the effort needed for successful cooperation on areas of mutual interest.

We wince when Washington so often sends mixed signals and it seems that nobody in the Obama administration understands what is necessary to build constructive relations with the government of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Just last month the White House was quietly hinting that the plan was to downplay relations with Russia but wait, this month it's different--again.

For at least this week, the Obama administration would like to try yet another attempt at resetting American-Russian relations so on Vice President Biden's early February trip to Munich he expressed the idea to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. You may recall the first attempt just after Mr. Obama's 2009 inauguration when his staffers didn't trust their own Moscow Embassy and ignored advice on how to approach the Russians. They even bypassed an ample Moscow Embassy staff of fluent Russian translators and kept the creation of a "reset" button under wraps in Washington.

You perhaps know the story of then-new Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's presentation of the famous reset button to the Russian government. Unfortunately Obama's staff had used the wrong word for "reset" when translated into Russian and upon presentation of the button to Mr. Lavrov, with cameras clicking and videos rolling, Mrs. Clinton quickly became the laughingstock of Europe when Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov called her out on the mistake. The word chosen by the Obama team meant "overloaded" in Russian. Mr. Lavrov, who is a fluent English speaker, chuckled for the moment but in the halls of the Kremlin it wasn't funny and while publicly the Russians tried to be gracious over the gaffe, privately they wondered why the hell they should take Obama seriously if the relationship wasn't important enough to use a spell checker or dictionary.

On the other hand, Russian President Vladimir Putin isn't really all that interested in a reset either. Washington has already surrendered on the idea of missile defenses in Poland and the two sides will never agree on Syria, so in spite of pressing issues like Iran and North Korea, apparently there is little for the two governments to discuss. Mr. Putin has used his own version of a new "cold war" with the USA to temper opposition at home and rather enjoys making America the scapegoat for problems more likely to be traced to policies at home.

An interesting indicator of the success of Putin's anti-USA tactic is the reaction in Russia over how Americans have reacted to a photo of Mr. Putin riding a bear in the wilderness. To some Russians the very idea that Americans would think the photo to be photo-shopped is apparently just not acceptable. One Russian friend sent the Journal this message: американцы на фейсбуке всерьез обсуждают, фотошоп это или нет (Americans are seriously questioning whether the photo was photo-shopped) as if the very question was offensive.

In the same spirit of seeing photos of an American president pretending to shoot skeet when he clearly doesn't know how to properly shoulder a gun, well, absent some real-time video coverage to back up a photo of Mr. Putin riding a bear...


Putin bear height=287


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavro has announced that newly-appointed U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry may visit Russia shortly with the intention for Moscow and Washington to work at mending their strained relations.

In reality there is much the two countries could accomplish as partners instead of adversaries so let's hope that Mr. Kerry keeps mum if the subject of Mr. Putin riding a bear comes up in conversation.

Kamchatka region. (AP Photo/RIA Novosti, Alexei Druzhinin) height=363

Kamchatka region. (AP Photo/RIA Novosti, Alexei Druzhinin)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 11:50:25 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline jone

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #195 on: February 12, 2013, 12:00:40 PM »
One of the great mismatches of all time was when Gorbachev came to Iceland to meet Reagan.  Here was the slender, handsome, American President.  And here comes Gorbachev, short, a little rattled, and obviously not up to the task of comparing himself to Reagan.  In the months that followed, Gorbachev became much appreciated by the West (where he wasn't sacrificing his own economy).  But the lingering first presentation was always present.  Reagan, the all star.  Gorbachev, hat in hand.

Today, Jim, your presentation of Obama shooting skeet is apropos.  How appropriate and telling, as well, is Putin riding a bear.  Notice how he always seems to get his shirt off for the publicity shots.  Russia has learned much about how to present their leaders since the days of Gorby.  We, on the other hand, have Obama playing hoops with the boys.  I just can't go there.

Thanks for the insight and poetic imagery that your thoughts bring.

-j 
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline calmissile

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #196 on: February 12, 2013, 12:04:20 PM »
I had not heard about the 'button' gaff.  That is really funny in a way.  The Obama administration (including Hillary) is so inept to not even use a translator to get the language correct.  How the hell our government can currently carry on any meaningful dialogue with other nations is beyond me!

It is embarrasing to say the least.  Hopefully, it won't lead to escalated tensions.

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #197 on: February 12, 2013, 12:07:36 PM »
It was four years ago.  I think the moment has passed.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #198 on: February 12, 2013, 12:17:19 PM »
It was four years ago.  I think the moment has passed.

I understand that, but has it improved with the latest example over the tit for tat that resulted in forbidding Americans from adopting Russian babies?

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Re: Reforming Russia?
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2013, 01:40:28 PM »
Thanks to you both.

Jon, your comparison of Mr. Gorbachev and Mr. Reagan at that time is spot on.

On a related note, the first time that President Reagan traveled to meet Mr. Gorbachev in Moscow was very different than the Kremlin Palace today. Today the Grand Kremlin Palace is a show piece and that only a few ordinary Russians will ever enter the palace is a shame.

But back then the Palace was only a dim shadow of it's former and future majestic glory.


http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/C47250-29.jpg

(photo: University of Texas archives)

Neglected for decades due to the Soviet's lack of funds, it was a musty and drab place. Today it sparkles just as it did in former generations. In 2002 President George W. Bush's jaw literally dropped and he experienced a reflexive intake of breath upon his first entry into the ornate Saint Andrew's Hall when escorted into the Kremlin Palace by President Putin.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Bush_and_Putin_signing_SORT.jpg


When the Obama family came to Moscow in 2009, an event that had European tongues wagging because most delegations don't include young children, then-President Medvedev met the American first family after they had been escorted into the palace through the famous Palace of the Facets (also called the Faceted Chamber), a centuries old palace connected to the main palace and which serves as a welcome and reception area for foreign dignitaries.

If you're ever watched a Russian presidential inauguration, the connected "Red Porch" is where President's Putin and Medvedev have stood to review the honour guard parade after their inaugurations into office. It was originally built for the crowning of the Tsars, dismantled by Josef Stalin, and rebuilt in 1994. The red carpet is both majestic and symbolic, leading from the Faceted Chamber into the Grand Kremlin Palace.




(photo: Ilya Varlamov)


The beautiful St. George Hall has changed a lot since the meeting between Reagan and Gorbachev; restored to it's former grandeur.




(Photo: Ilya Varlamov)


Saint George Hall (above) is where important Presidential addresses to Parliament are given. Larger state dinners and banquets are held either here or in the Alexander Hall.

It was the location just weeks ago of the meeting of the Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church which takes place every four years.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 03:31:51 PM by mendeleyev »
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