Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...

[Eduard]

One of the worst things you can do is marry a woman who is eager to get out of Ukraine/Russia. That tells you that she's got an agenda and although you may think :"great this will make it easier" fact is that you may just be a stepping stone for her to accomplish her goals. You've got to make sure that a woman is truly into you and you are the only reason why she would agree to leave her country. Women who come from a good, stable family background, have good morals, education and their life/family priorities straight in most cases are not going to be looking to get out and look for foreign men. Yes there are exceptions, but they are rare.

[Belvis]

Rivardco, if you encounter a woman whom you like but moving from the FSU poses a challenge, I suggest you continue to pursue her.   It will take time, but you have time.   A "challenge" woman is good.

It reminds me Gator's comment on RM dating behavior in another thread:

CM show less ''conquering'' activities towards a woman. As one pretty single immigrant girl noted to me, ''Here, if you tell him no, he understands it as no and moves from you. A FSU guy would not take a no for an answer and will be persistent in getting to a yes from you''[/li][/list]

Gator's comment: Frankly, RM sound like bullying, reckless teenage boys.   No wonder progressively thinking RW are turned off by RM dating behavior.
 

[ML]

I note the several encouraging comments on this trip report with some mystification.

Hate to be so 'Russian,' but I see little content of interest reported by Rivardco as opposed to the psycho babble.  Its almost like he is still in USA or Columbia and writing about how he thinks the FSUW will be.

Note:  Not saying he should report the kiss and tell type thingy, but he is there . . . not back home thinking about being there.  Some guys will have already met a dozen gals; and some guys will already have had a proposal accepted.

Rivardco, you are there in the land of milk and honey . . . get on with actually spending some quality time . . . with one or more of them.

[IAmZon]

1, Well, Belvis ... I am sure Gator intended to suggest a more noble effort of winning a woman's heart, rather than your conclusion that he suggest I punch a girl in the nose.   ( I assume you live in the USA now?  It is the right place for you ).

2, ML "Rivardco as opposed to the psycho babble ... Rivardco, you are there in the land of milk and honey . . . get on with actually spending some quality time . . . with one or more of them"

Hmmm.  So you think that cultural comparisons are worthless and not of interest?   And, you think I should put on my best suit and be a suitor at the speed of light?

Sorry to disappoint, but I have seen neither milk or honey thus far.  I could spend time with a couple women from Elenas - 2 are too old for me; one was hiding a gigantic mole on her forehead in her otherwise beautiful photos, and the other I am seeing tomorrow night - no big deal.

Actually, I work ALOT, even when I travel.  This day I have hardly left my flat.  Although I will live here for 50 days, I am not on vacation.

[calmissile]

Hmmm.  So you think that cultural comparisons are worthless and not of interest?

Ricardo,

Your view of the cultural comparisons are of great value to many of us.  It is nice to hear some 'fresh' opinions, not coming from the armchair posters.

In addiiton, the mechanics of getting around and communicating with the natives is interesting and educational as well.

Of course, your romantic experiences and impressions are of interest as well, but remember there are few 'on the ground' guys that can offer day to day experiences which is both interesting and educational.   Keep us informed.

[Lily]

The opinions vary among women about leaving their country.  And for those who do wish to emigrate, their reasons differ. 
 

Agree on this. The answers may vary from a woman to a woman.

Tim,  the one best to answer that question would be Lily as she's the only one in here that I can think of that has left her country under her own steam. Everyone else is likely to sugar coat it.

All in my life, including education, interests and jobs, was related to the West in any ways, but I did not seriously considered immigration, even after I got my U.S. degree. I still thought that I could be well off in Moscow, but the reality turned to be not as good as I planned before. A desire to find a man was the last drop in my intention to change my country. That means, if I could find a man in Moscow, I would probably think twice. But as soon as I was unbound, I moved, knowing that my chances are better if I will be in Canada for life, with or without a man.
Some women may also think just as Ed described.
 

[Belvis]

Well, Belvis ... I am sure Gator intended to suggest a more noble effort of winning a woman's heart, rather than your conclusion that he suggest I punch a girl in the nose. 

Gator suggested the persistent action instead of lyrical observation.

[Eduard]

Some women may also think just as Ed described.

But basically you pretty much confirmed what I said. You did finally decide to leave Russia because of very few choices of available single men locally. Even though there were other factors besides that one, that was the straw that broke the camel's back

[noelscot]

I will be honest with my prejudices and suppositions here.   I do not have any sacred cows.  Ukraine MAY BE Heaven or Hell, or both to different people.  HOWEVER, my "spider senses" tell me that this country is structurally F$cked - like most deep Eastern European countries.  The elites steel (and I mean HUGE amounts), and leave the citizens to fight for scraps.  There are few smiles on people's faces here!  Not socially scientific, but very telling

Comparatively, the government of the Dominican Republic is 100% more noble.  This country has invested vasts amounts in infrastructure, public transportation, and especially education for the young.  Hell, Colombia seems to have  a leg-up, because the middle class is growing and foreign investment is flooding in because of a much improved judiciary.

= So there is my prejudice. It is not firm =

Gonna meet a woman I met online tonight for diner.  ( Just in case some of you were beginning to worry about me ).   I expect her to be very suspicious of why I am here, and what I will be doing.  Learning from yesterday, I will not lie - I will just NOT tell the truth:)  I met her on Elenas Models.   I have not found other sites to be particularly responsive, and I am tired of online BS.

It looks like I have a whopping 10-12 dates lined up through agencies!  If one is to believe profiles, they are all remarkable women with English and no children.  That is a pretty LIGHT wife-hunter schedule.  But, increasingly, I do not want to meet many many women through agencies.  I will take a couple shots at the women that appeal to me very much, and then be as careful with them as they will be with me.  I assume I will meet other women along the way. 

In another 2 weeks, I will have my sea legs, and be an old salt

Your spidey sense is not out of whack. Even Ukrainians will confirm a lot of what you're saying.   
 
I saw a lot of cute waitresses in Odessa. At Kumanyets on Gavannaya Street (across from City Garden) there's not an ugly one in the whole bunch. I ate there so much that the waitresses were giving me presents at the end of the trip. Of course, I'll have to probably produce some notarized documents to prove that to some folks.    Kyiv just didn't have the same positive vibe,though, as Odessa.
 
Maybe you could date some waitresses? They know how to bring a man food and usually want to stay off their feet at the end of the day.
 
I'm here all week.

[Gator]

Gator suggested the persistent action instead of lyrical observation.

Polite and witty insult.  You must be British.    Anyway, you understand my point.
 
Rivardco is so busy now that he will overlook some things.  No big deal.

[Gator]

But basically you pretty much confirmed what I said. You did finally decide to leave Russia because of very few choices of available single men locally. Even though there were other factors besides that one, that was the straw that broke the camel's back

Never put words in a woman's mouth.      You should say the same but phrase as a question.

[I/O]

Never put words in a woman's mouth.

Doesn't it depend which head you're speaking with? 

[Gator]

Doesn't it depend which head you're speaking with? 

I threw you a softball.   Is she pregnant again?

[I/O]

Is she pregnant again?

Still - Late August.

[Eduard]

hey I/O, haven't seen you post for a while, where have you been? Feeling naughty tonight? 

[I/O]

Feeling naughty tonight?

Nah, she did that a few months ago - apparently. 
 

I expect her to be very suspicious of why I am here, and what I will be doing.

Tim - why are you there?
 

[Faux Pas]

Gonna meet a woman I met online tonight for diner.  ( Just in case some of you were beginning to worry about me ).   I expect her to be very suspicious of why I am here, and what I will be doing.  Learning from yesterday, I will not lie - I will just NOT tell the truth:)  I met her on Elenas Models.   I have not found other sites to be particularly responsive, and I am tired of online BS.

I am a bit surprised and disappointed in you rivardco. I gave you some advice earlier in the thread to do some "free range" babe hunting. If you have done any at all, you haven't mentioned it. You strike me as a man with some semblance of "game". Get a terp if you need to (I don't think you will) as love is a universal language and game isn't something one can usually disguise. The women are approachable. Give it a try

[IAmZon]

[size=78%]Quote from: rivardco on Today at 12:37:03 AM[/size]
I expect her to be very suspicious of why I am here, and what I will be doing.Tim - why are you there?

Why am I here.  What brought me hear.  What I expect.

I came to Europe on business first, and primarily.  If it were not for the fact that the firm picking up a new client in Hungary, I probably would be in Colombia today.  Since, I had the "excuse" to come here, I simply transferred my schedule to Ukraine.  For about a year, I have been living / working in Tampa, Florida for 2 months, then Colombia for 2 months. There was the slight coincidence that Jack's tour started one week later than my business trip.  Then, there was the Ukrainian girl I met in Las Vegas in January that made me remember HOW MUCH I am attracted to Russian /  Ukrainian style over Latina (generally and superficially speaking)

I came to Ukraine to see the women.  I have enjoyed the history at a distance.  BUT COME ON, there are much better places in the world to spend a few months.

About my dating / love life:  Some things in life form habits; women are one of those things.    I have been very content to sample and play over these last 4 years.  But, life is lived in chapters and phases, and my interests have shifted over the last 6 - 12 months.  I have not been content to have what I have had, which is more than my share of beautiful women.

It does no harm to note that I turned 48 in March, and it is hard not to notice that the number is getting pretty damn high.  Objectively, I may be near my peak in terms of attraction (this seems to apply best to foreign women), and simultaneous I may be near the end of being attractive at all! LOL   So, if I am going to get married AND have a child, or find a woman with a child, I thought I better get a move on.   I am already a couple years too late. 

And, then there is "S", a young woman I met in Medellin quite be accident in March.  We began to fall in L....  Here from the position of a 21 year old girl with few life experiences, and me as a 48 year old man with too much life experiences. I surprised me, frankly. BUT A 28 YEAR AGE GAP is more of a curse than a blessing - or at least equal.  Importantly, in this particular case the relationship happened "honestly" - it was not ( is not ) a fabrication.  Obviously, I have grave reservations. ( I should note that I continue to talk to her several times a day)

So, all this combined to join the ranks of the "wife-hunters" while I still can.

What do I expect?  MUCH, candidly.

I have not expressed optimism, or excitement in this TR.   Such things need to be put in check and controlled, not entertained and emphasized.  Although I do not have as many contacts as recommended, I will meet a handful of quality women, and I will be in a different frame of mind to meet many more. THAT is never the problem.  Meeting the right ONE is the challenge.   

On that note, I am cautiously optimistic about 2 or 3 meetings.   These women a very attractive, 28 - 32, and speak at least fair/good/fluent English (I completely ignored all women with little to no English).  One woman has a child.  All of them are within my league (maybe that is a little stretch), but I have tried to stay away from the obvious extremes.  I have always thought PERFECT 10's are a pain in the A$$

So, sorry for the slow start gents!  I think things will heat up pretty fast.  I will meet "I" tonight for desert.  (she may very well be mine) She is pretty, thin, 29, speaks English (and a little Spanish).  She seems as fast and easy as the other women in Kiev seemed direct and guarded. 

[I/O]

So, all this combined to join the ranks of the "wife-hunters" while I still can.

Do you really want a wife?

[IAmZon]

Do you really want a wife?

Interesting question, I/O!

I AM happy in bachelorhood. I am not one of those guys running around NEEDING to be married in order to cope with life.    I do believe the institution of marriage is seen as a "cure all" to many people when IN FACT it is NOT.  Marriage is ALWAYS Good and Bad and Hard - as is life itself.  It's greatest reward may be in longevity and consistency ...  when two people can look back on life in dignity and together know / recollect sharing life's intimate experiences.  This can be a special proof of human loyalty.  I do believe that too few people are happily married in the LONG RUN, which is to say a very successful marriage is a rare thing, very much so!  (I think 10 out of 100).  If it were not for "having children" I do not think marriage is absolutely necessary, or even good for most people. (what is wrong with being "friends")

Having said that ...

I am not a selfish person and am very able to live with a woman I love and be constantly supportive and attentive.  Under the right circumstances, this, in and of itself, is very fulfilling.   I do believe the right woman could make me a better man.  And,  lastly, I do believe that a woman has gifts in the art of living that I as a bachelor simple do not possess.  For example, I do not know or care if it is a Monday, or Friday, or Sunday.  I do not know, or care, if it is a holiday.   Every day is OK.  Some days are better than others.   But, the right woman has the ability to make simple things matter in life.  That is the unique gift of the feminine - creating a warm and cozy home and life style.

When you are a man with choices, the trick may well be to find contentment in your choice.  I know many single men who seem incapable of this.  I am not one of them.

So, I am OPEN and MOTIVATED by the prospects of marriage at this time.  HOWEVER, I am not in love with the idea of marriage first, and wanting to caste a suitable woman  in that place, second.  Rather, it would take the right woman to move me to desire to enter into marriage.  AND, I think in the best of cases, it is something I would want completely without compromise, not partially with reservations.   In other words, I do not think marriage is something you "talk" yourself into, or create a column of pros on one side, and cons on the second.  It should be something that is natural and intuitive - something that is so obvious to the two involved that any other options seems foreign and strange.

(Maybe I am too idealistic?  But, this is a good place from which to start.  And, remember I am a man who has eaten too much chocolate.  There is a limit to everything.)

[Boethius]

I do believe that too few people are happily married in the LONG RUN, which is to say a very successful marriage is a rare thing, very much so!  (I think 10 out of 100). 

I think it is because true love is rare.  I didn't actually realize this, until I started reading this forum.

And, then there is "S", a young woman I met in Medellin quite be accident in March.  We began to fall in L....  Here from the position of a 21 year old girl with few life experiences, and me as a 48 year old man with too much life experiences. I surprised me, frankly. BUT A 28 YEAR AGE GAP is more of a curse than a blessing - or at least equal.  Importantly, in this particular case the relationship happened "honestly" - it was not ( is not ) a fabrication.  Obviously, I have grave reservations. ( I should note that I continue to talk to her several times a day)

While 21 is young, is there really that big a difference between a 21 year old and a 28 year old?

[IAmZon]

While 21 is young, is there really that big a difference between a 21 year old and a 28 year old?

Yes, I think there is a VERY big difference.  It is not the integers between the two people's ages, THAT is a misnomer - IMO.   If I were 60 (as many of my friends are now) it is not so unwise, or unusual, to marry a woman who is 35, for example. An age gap of 25 years.   However, A 45 year old man marrying a 20 year old woman - very, very difficult for that to end pretty.  I don't think it is fair to the woman, in fact.

BUT THEN, I think to myself ... you know, I probably would be much better to this young woman than her natural alternatives.  I would care for her, and nurture her, and protect her.   Men, her age, in her country - more often than not - will prove a disappointment.  All of this makes us sound like insurance actuaries and statisticians. This is not a good brand of "love."

Naturally, there is a different dynamic in all large age.  I was in a "young love" with a woman 2 years older than myself, and that lasted for 13 years.   We were both the "same" age and matured together.   Nowadays, I date younger women.  Why?  Because I can.  I still enjoy the friendship of older women, but without the necessity of having sexual relations.  I don't think that makes me a PIG ... but, other people may hold a different position.

[IAmZon]

Back to the mundane ..


- the geometry of the bottom of the toilet intends to suspend the experience, rather than do away with it all together.  Strange.  This can not be an unintended mistake?


- 55 bucks! for a pedicure and a manicure.  PFFFF

[IAmZon]

So I met a Dave at 8:00 PM and was supposed to meet "I" at 9:00 PM.   Had two beers and showed up at 9 till.  I waited until 5 after, and was ready to say let's party / chicks suck RAAAAA!   And, then, 'I said, let me check one more time.  And then I saw a woman MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL AND TENDER than her photos would suggest. 

I prematurely held her and said, "Baby, I was waiting for 15 minutes, but I am happy to meet you".   I got the cold Russian thing at first.  Then,  she said ... I want to know you better.  So ... Four hours later, and some surgical dialogue; I have to say, NICE.  VERY NICE!  I enjoyed the process. I enjoyed that she surprised me with questions and critical evaluation.  I especially enjoyed the subject matter.  Early in the evening, I said "give me your hands"  She said why?  I said, "things like this can be read like a book. We already know we like each other.  I want to know how much.  Give me your hands now."  And, she did. 

I just put her in a taxi and called to make sure she got home OK. She will meet me tomorrow after work without delay.  And, IF I ONLY MET HER I would be happy with this trip. Does that mean I am easy?  I think not.  These girls have a depth and intelligence that I have not seen anywhere else. 

Do you want to know more about this relationship, or any other I might have?  It depends 90% on ME, not the environment, or the woman. Here in these places, the outcome IS ALMOST  ENTIRELY IN MY HANDS ( or yours). 

It is somewhat gluttonous to go on a "tour" that is full of these experiences. If I do not keep my wits about me, this could do me no good.

[Gator]

I think it is because true love is rare.  I didn't actually realize this, until I started reading this forum.

Skewed sample.  Most men at RWD are divorced. 
 
 
I just attended a reunion of my social fraternity.  About 67% of my brothers are still married to their first and only wife.  They are very happy.  Some are having health concerns, and this is drawing them even closer together.  Admirable, and touching too as we grew up together at the university.