Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...

[SFandEE]

Hi Vinny,


I am interested about your experience in Poltava as I have been there myself and did not get the same sense of it being a scam central.  I believe it is possible it could be "scam central".  I do maintain relationships with friends there and do believe that there are scam processes and cultures in FSU, but for some reason did not get the same impression as you about Poltava.  I do get the impression that it is being promoted heavily like Nikolaev, which clearly is a sign of potential for scams--by definition.


The red flag cities in Ukraine impressed upon me are Odessa, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, Donetzk, and Melitopol.  I can't say I have any of them as more of scam city than another and believe that following the wisdom of the RWD 10 commandments should do a good job against most any scam process. 

[IAmZon]

Scam Central - Well, you go in 30 bucks to call.  But, after that what is the scam? 


Honestly, I see now that the circumstance here in Ukraine applies a hard pressure to explore all options.  After that, however, quality women can only compromise so much.  You can read it in a woman's eyes if you allow yourself.


Agencies are not bad; and they can be very good.  It depends on the man and the woman. 


I think Kharkov is a city of 2 million people with a good vibe, friendly, tons of beautiful women.  At which point does enough become enough?  Especially, if you want to meet women naturally?

[Gator]

Especially, if you want to meet women naturally?

??????   I guess you mean that using an agency is unnatural.  I am not sure that women you meet at bars have anywhere near the natural maturity to be ready to mother your child. 

The most natural way would be serendipity encounters in office, shops, theater, etc. Do you have the time?
 
Or how about befriending people, earning their trust,  and asking if they have a serious friend who may be available - blind date (but how many blind dates who are friends of friends have been good in your life)?

[IAmZon]

Well, I was wrong about agencies.   IF you spend time with a good manager owner ... they can give pretty good (very good) recommendations based on a vast amount of experience.

Yes - you need more time than most have. That is the hard part.

Meeting women naturally?  Come on, it is not THAT HARD.  They already WANT TO meet much of the time.  Amazingly, language is not as big of problem here as it was for me at first in South America?!?

[IAmZon]

By the way ... I seem to be sobering up FROM sexy, young and hot - JUST IN TIME.  Inner beauty, not outer beauty is by far more rare.

It should be no secret that I have dated more than my share of sexy girls over the last couple years.   But, something happened to me when I went to the club on Saturday night.  I could see the girls (lots of them) and the men (young, old, in between - all with more money than 99% of the normal people here) ... and I did not want to be there.

I saw Ksynia for the 3rd time yesterday.  I have had private meetings with all the agency owners.   I have gone with a university friend to the language department of one college and met some professors.  I will do more of this. 

Below are some garden variety photos (in compliance with Kuna's request.  PS - I thought it odd that both of these women were / are extremely attractive, but the photos do not do justice?)

[Admin Note: Photo removed on request of the lady in the photo]

[chivo]

The girls look quite fine. As you are more than aware after all this time, there's much more to a woman than meets the eye. But I digress...
 
Part of my comment about not having enough time had more to do with choosing, not so much about your current stage of life.
 
As I have found out (and I'm sure many others who invested such time), in order to make the best possible decision, one must spend x amount of face time with his perspective.
 
I have been so sure of previous choices in the beginning only to find later that I was too quick to judge. Factor that in with the amount of quality ladies one meets in such a short period of time, if one so desires, and you have yourself quite a dilemma decideding who is best. All this while having my feet "on the ground". I couldn't imagine how I would have dealt with things from a distance.
 
I'm sure after you leave you'll mull over many things, unfortunately from a distance. A second, maybe extended trip might be what you have in mind at this time in order to sort things out better. Or, confuse the situation even more  .
 
I must say I read you a little wrong at the beginning and now have a better understanding of where you're coming from. It's positive if it matters.
 
Yet I still wonder if you can indeed be "sure" in your convictions when the time comes to pull the trigger. IOW, I'm still left not totally convinced of your bottom line; do you really know what you want? and/or, do you really want it? (not that my opinion matters in the big picture).
 
Still, I thought you'd like the feedback. Good luck.

[TheTraveler]

the girls are both beautiful, man!

glad to hear you're steering clear of the club scene.

my gut tells me that your trip is going to be a big success!

[IAmZon]

I really like the four guys that are on the tour - nice, sweet  guys.   But, I really hate it that we are all using basically the same agencies.  We can be honest together, so I said to everybody ... just tell me when you are not going to be there:)


Today, I accepted the agencies BEST recommendation for me.  It was a blind date.   I did not even see the photos.  She was beautiful, lovely, smart, elegant - Cameron Diez; but more attractive.  The only problem was she is a blond version of my X.  She is EXACTLY the opposite of what I seek!  She was wearing $600 Prada Sun Glasses.   She was divorced to a well connected businessman in town.  After 30 minutes (it was nice, but painful), I said let's be honest ... I am not the man for you.


Tomorrow is Victory Day, and I am looking forward to the parade.   I am still unclear on my plans.  I like it here.  I want to go to Poltava, however. Will keep advised.

[IAmZon]

Yet I still wonder if you can indeed be "sure" in your convictions when the time comes to pull the trigger. IOW, I'm still left not totally convinced of your bottom line; do you really know what you want? and/or, do you really want it? (not that my opinion matters in the big picture).

It will take the right woman.  That is the best, most honest, and only answer.  Everything else is suspicious and not natural.

[Gator]

Today, I accepted the agencies BEST recommendation for me.  It was a blind date.   I did not even see the photos.  She was beautiful, lovely, smart, elegant - Cameron Diez; but more attractive.  The only problem was she is a blond version of my X.  She is EXACTLY the opposite of what I seek!  She was wearing $600 Prada Sun Glasses.   She was divorced to a well connected businessman in town.  After 30 minutes (it was nice, but painful), I said let's be honest ... I am not the man for you.

As we would yell to a batter who took a close pitch for a called ball, "good eye" Tim. 
 
Such women are there.  Her ex-husband has grown weary of her now that she is 30, and with his wealth he can easily find a 21-yo version.  They have already been trained by wealthy UM, and changing them is probably not an easy task.

[Eduard]

As we would yell to a batter who took a close pitch for a called ball, "good eye" Tim. 
 
Such women are there.  Her ex-husband has grown weary of her now that she is 30, and with his wealth he can easily find a 21-yo version.  They have already been trained by wealthy UM, and changing them is probably not an easy task.

wise words, Phil 

[IAmZon]

In Kharkov: I am seeing the sites (not many more to see) taking an hour or two of Russian language a day (don't laugh!  I am surprised to be making more progress, more clearly than Spanish 2 years ago:)   The language clubs at the university could be very good.   Found a girl that teaches ball room dancing at a dance school.   I bet I could take piano lessons too?!?  That, along with my normal job would fill up my calender and enable me to create relationships easily.


Before I take a nice little flat for 30 days (nice place, center of city), I think I should at least take a peek at Poltava.  The only agency women that really interested me were from THAT city.   I have heard from several people who have been there only good things.


Upon Closer Review ... I have noticed that the attractive women walking around with HIGH heals and short skirts are all younger than my preference.   AND, there may well be a drop off of "those type" of ladies that are a little older?   This is a college town after all.  AND, I would so like to stop being the older guy with the knock-out 24 year old (seriously)   


A couple more "Shallow Hal" observations:
- Dentistry has a LONG way to go here.  Many people have yellow teeth and need 5 - 20 K in dental work.
- If you wear 6 inch high heals from 19 - 30, a woman's feet will fall off at mid life.
- Speaking of that ... I have not seen a ton of evidence to suggest that UW age more gracefully than AM?  There is a big drop off in attractiveness, generally speaking, in the 30's.
- Many of the blonds in Ukraine are dyed (no biggey for me)


What is worse than a crowded Marriage Agency?  I am hard pressed to imagine.  The most popular girls are usually unimpressed multiple times ... then, it's your turn.  At this point, I have met with 8 women and have used an agency for 3 meetings.  Today was the first time I used an interpreter - a little weird. 

[Boethius]

Many of the blonds in Ukraine are dyed (no biggey for me)

Parts of Poltava are known for tall, blue eyed blondes. 

Lots of blondes in Western Ukraine, too.  All my family there is blue eyed/blonde, though the occasional green eyed person crops up on my Grandfather's side.

[Vinnvinny]

Hi Vinny,




I am interested about your experience in Poltava as I have been there myself and did not get the same sense of it being a scam central.  I believe it is possible it could be "scam central".  I do maintain relationships with friends there and do believe that there are scam processes and cultures in FSU, but for some reason did not get the same impression as you about Poltava.  I do get the impression that it is being promoted heavily like Nikolaev, which clearly is a sign of potential for scams--by definition.

Hi SfandEE,


My feelings on Poltava are similar to if you had prawns for the first time and they made you very sick. There’s nothing wrong with prawns, but your experience will colour your future perception.


I used an agency there once and got the distinct impression that there was no sincerity from either the agency or the ladies I met and that they were simply just a business model to extract cash from foreigners. I was with a guy from New York and he used a different agency he had exactly the same impression.


I didn’t particularly like Poltava either which didn’t help …


Maybe scam central was a little hard but every time I see ‘Poltava’ I get red mist though I am sure there are lots of great ladies there.

Scam Central - Well, you go in 30 bucks to call.  But, after that what is the scam? 

In the overall scheme of things $30 is of course ‘nothing’ but if one is meeting ladies who look nothing like their photos and who have no interest in meeting you, I believe $0 is too expensive. In my situation described above it wasn’t just $30, it was in taxi costs from Kharkov to Poltava and back, hotel costs in Poltava combined with the fact that I kept my apartment in Kharkov. $30 quickly becomes more like $100 and that’s before you start to evaluate wasted time.

Agencies are not bad; and they can be very good.  It depends on the man and the woman. 
 

I think you are wrong, there are ‘good’ agencies and ‘bad’ agencies period. It doesn’t matter how good a man is, if he is meeting a lady who has no interest in him, no interest in leaving her country etc its a waste of time and money.

[ECOCKS]

Poltava will be what you make if it Tim.

My wife is from that oblast and you will find winners....and losers.

Keep the radar turned on!

[Kuna]

Really enjoying your TR Tim....  and glad you're out and about and meeting people.

Thanks for the photos too...  they add colour to an already colourful report.

Both girls are very attractive... the second is smoldering IMO...  but you look a little apprehensive... maybe scared? 

 

Kidding...  but you do have an amusing expression on your face.

With the girls you meet some will be stunning...  others will be perfect.  I'm sure you're aware all stunning girls are not perfect.

Ultimately you're looking for someone you are taken by... not someone others are taken by.

I reckon it's worth taking the trip to Poltava if noting else just to give you some variety.  One of the good things about there being so many YOUNG hotties in Kharkov is that the ladies you SHOULD be meeting may not be getting much attention.  Maybe everyone is besotted with the hotties and the one you seek is waiting for a bit of attention from the right man.

A comment on aging... 

MANY women there don't age well... and I can tell you there are many that emigrate here who don't age well either.  I used to think it was about the poor quality food or the hard life there but my wife has friends who remain beautiful into their 40's - BECAUSE they care and work to maintain their appearances. 

Likewise the improved diet options here and variety of food means the women that emigrate should find it easier to avoid so much potato, oil and mayonnaise...  but they don't choose to eat well.


Anyway... enough...  I'm looking forward to reading more Tim!

[LAman]

I used an agency there once and got the distinct impression that there was no sincerity from either the agency or the ladies I met and that they were simply just a business model to extract cash from foreigners. I was with a guy from New York and he used a different agency he had exactly the same impression.


 In the overall scheme of things $30 is of course ‘nothing’ but if one is meeting ladies who look nothing like their photos and who have no interest in meeting you, I believe $0 is too expensive. In my situation described above it wasn’t just $30, it was in taxi costs from Kharkov to Poltava and back, hotel costs in Poltava combined with the fact that I kept my apartment in Kharkov. $30 quickly becomes more like $100 and that’s before you start to evaluate wasted time.

I think you are wrong, there are ‘good’ agencies and ‘bad’ agencies period. It doesn’t matter how good a man is, if he is meeting a lady who has no interest in him, no interest in leaving her country etc its a waste of time and money.

While I had only used an agency once (reputable by many), I got similar feeling. Where else can you go, check out a few photos, pick out one girl for date, and within half hour you have date with a girl who has no idea of anything about you, not even a pic!!!!.......of course there was the introduction fee, it was $40 per......
I guess Rivardco is paying $30 per intro, if i am right, and one date definately was useless....even though he spent time with owner to 'discuss' his prospects......

[LAman]

 
 
 A comment on aging... 

MANY women there don't age well... and I can tell you there are many that emigrate here who don't age well either.  I used to think it was about the poor quality food or the hard life there but my wife has friends who remain beautiful into their 40's - BECAUSE they care and work to maintain their appearances. 

Likewise the improved diet options here and variety of food means the women that emigrate should find it easier to avoid so much potato, oil and mayonnaise...  but they don't choose to eat well.

 

I have always wondered about that...I too thought it was the hard life and maybe incliment weather that led to this. To me, the ladies I know at home seem more attractive starting in late 30's to 40's than in FSU, just have to find one without drama between the ears!!! Biggest difference I see between the younger girls of both areas is body style, light color eyes and 'street smart'....both are attractive facially.
BTW, I think the word 'beautiful' is tossed around by many wayyyyyyyy to much.

[Vinnvinny]

I was once met at Kharkov airport by a terp who also did meeting and greeting and escorted foreign men to their apartments. She was around 5’ 11, very slim and dressed immaculately in a suit and chatted non stop to me in fluent English during our taxi ride. Most healthy straight men would have had similar thoughts flashing through their minds …….


Later that evening it is fair to say I was dumbstruck to learn that the said lady was aged just 15!!!! ‘Welcome to Ukraine’ as they say.

Both girls are very attractive... the second is smoldering IMO...  but you look a little apprehensive... maybe scared? 


Kidding...  but you do have an amusing expression on your face.

It’s good to see that Dasha’s looks haven’t declined with age and at least now all such thoughts are legal.

[IAmZon]

I think tours SUCK - no matter how small.  Sorry, but that is the truth.  I don't even like using agencies when women are meeting many men - and most of the most eligible always meet the same men. DONE.  It is best to write one and visit one (or two) and pay your dues.


It is victory day here.  Great festivities. I like the new upper end hotel.  There is a special for only 90 bucks a day?!?!?   The marketing manager will call me with a special for a 15 day deal tomorrow.    BUT, agency girls are not the way to go.  These things take time, here in the real world, or online. 90% of everything else is a fluke.  Just keeping it real.


Poltava a scam or not?  I will tell you in a couple days.  BUT, the only people that can be scammed are those with little street sense.  I mean we all take a flier on coming here in the first place.   What's 50 bucks in the over all scheme of things?  A taxi?   I have had 3 agency meeting.  I MIGHT have 5 - 10 more by the time it is over.  (Hell! I spent half that amount for lunch and booze).


Having too much fun to take this day seriously.  Best to take a shower and continue.  The concerts starts in 2 hours. I have reserved a table at the new kharkov Palace - GREAT PLACE

[SFandEE]

Poltava a scam or not?  I will tell you in a couple days.  BUT, the only people that can be scammed are those with little street sense.  I mean we all take a flier on coming here in the first place.   What's 50 bucks in the over all scheme of things?  A taxi?   I have had 3 agency meeting.  I MIGHT have 5 - 10 more by the time it is over.  (Hell! I spent half that amount for lunch and booze).

I agree and that is why I am intrigued by the claim that Poltava is a scam city.  It is life experience, the school of hard knocks.  I think the 10 commandments are a good sign that people are sharing their experience.  I also think that even though agencies in general are a red flag that WM and FSU women have met through agencies and made their dreams come true, so even agencies are able to work.  I just think they are designed to create profit for the agency and whether the agency works or not is entirely on the WM.  Throw in some random luck too.


So it still remains a curiosity to me why someone would call a city a scam city.  I think it might have to do with the operations that are there and the comfort with making this a business and departing from a sincere effort.

[IAmZon]

BTW - anybody with worthy good information on Poltava TELL ME.  Here or on PM.  I don't want to waste any time with half truths!
I am leaving by train tomorrow.


I can be happy here just being a man.  Marriage only pops into my mind if there is magic - scammers can not produce this for me.  If a woman is not moved to fight for me - HARD ... I will not notice her seriously.

[Daveman]

...
BTW, I think the word 'beautiful' is tossed around by many wayyyyyyyy to much.

Why yes, yes, yes it is.  It seems the FSU is often played up as the Land of Endless Tens.  Of course the notion is subjective but really the overwhelmingly vast majority of women (or men), here, there, everywhere are "average" with a little leaning toward either opposing end of the curve.  There are a few who fall off the bell proper into beautiful or butt rippin' fugly but those are the exceptions.


There are a gazillion 5-6's, somewhat fewer 7's and 4's, fewer still 8's and 3's, an incredibly small number of 9's and 2's, and a minuscule proportion of 10's and 1's.


Cosmetics can be majorly transforming though -- as some of the before and after Star shots posted in various threads will attest. 

[Gator]

If a woman is not moved to fight for me - HARD ... I will not notice her seriously.

HARD?  A desperate woman will certainly try to claim you and probably go all in.  A challenge woman (my preference) may feel that the man must pursue.     

[Daveman]

...
 If a woman is not moved to fight for me - HARD ... I will not notice her seriously.

Would you mind elaborating?  It's interesting because at first glance, the meaning would turn a sharp 180 from (hundreds of) thousands of years of evolution - from women being the "pursued" (until they catch us that is) into being the active competitors doing the chasing.


Why would she fight for you prior to your having noticed her seriously?  Or do you mean a specific facet of her showing genuine interest?  What exactly?