Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[Donna_Pedro]

What pitbull and Donna Pedro are telling you is why would a woman who can find such a man  in Russia or Ukraine, a man who is still at his peak physically, is in her country, speaks the same language, knows her culture, etc., trade him for you? (I don't mean you personally, but a collective "older man")?   If she is going to work and take care of a man, what have you got to offer her that a much younger, slim bodied FSUM can't?
Women, in general, (not just FSUW) will weigh the "trade offs" of being with a particular man.  He may not be the best looking, but he is good, earns a decent living, and will be a good father.  He is great looking but will cheat on me.  He is a lot older, but I will be materially comfortable and he won't break my heart, etc.

100%. Seriously, if a woman had a decent place to live of her own, earned  money and had a certain life stile in her country, why would she move half a globe away if not for a better life? A lot of time "better life" translates not into fur coats and diamonds. Its translates merely to having an opportunity not to work. At least not till she is ready and wants to work herself.

[Doll]

The main point is... if you want an equal relationship - look for an equal partner

+100
Equal everything- age, finances, social situation.
If they still want "equal contribution" from a by default weaker partner, then in my book it is called (soft) slavery and nothing else.
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

+100
Equal everything- age, finances, social situation.
If they still want "equal contribution" from a by default weaker partner, then in my book it is called (soft) slavery and nothing else.

That would be very difficult since most women look for a man with higher social value.

[Gylden]

100%. Seriously, if a woman had a decent place to live of her own, earned  money and had a certain life stile in her country, why would she move half a globe away if not for a better life? A lot of time "better life" translates not into fur coats and diamonds. Its translates merely to having an opportunity not to work. At least not till she is ready and wants to work herself.

Pay attention newbies!
Here is a RW who is very direct and straight forward, saying that "it's all about the money" and not about the relationship.
 
 

[Donna_Pedro]

Pay attention newbies!
Here is a RW who is very direct and straight forward, saying that "it's all about the money" and not about the relationship.

 Going half a globe away  just for love is as stupid as going just for money.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Pay attention newbies!
Here is a RW who is very direct and straight forward, saying that "it's all about the money" and not about the relationship.

We must have read something different.   

[Gylden]

100%. Seriously, if a woman had a decent place to live of her own, earned  money and had a certain life stile in her country, why would she move half a globe away if not for a better life? A lot of time "better life" translates not into fur coats and diamonds. Its translates merely to having an opportunity not to work. At least not till she is ready and wants to work herself.

I think I know what you mean DP and I agree that RW should be very careful in assessing this aspect of the relationship (the finances). I think in your efforts to convey this however, you are leaning so far to one side, that it is actually interfering with getting your point across.
 

[Doll]

That would be very difficult since most women look for a man with higher social value.

Not true

[Doll]

Pay attention newbies!
Here is a RW who is very direct and straight forward, saying that "it's all about the money" and not about the relationship.

Equal (financial) contribution is NOT about the relationships either.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Not true

Yes, it is true.

In fact, you're posts about the importance of money validate this to a certain degree.

[Gylden]

Equal (financial) contribution is NOT about the relationships either.

Absolutely correct!

[Doll]

Yes, it is true.

In fact, you're posts about the importance of money validate this to a certain degree.

What "my posts"?

[Muzh]

or as one Russian woman who did not had any problem to find a job as a dressmaker, now she has her own studio.  It is also depends on different skills.

No question about that.

Now, there is a distinction between your previous example and the last one. One type of education/career the RW brings to the west is very technical and regulated. The other is very creative and lacking any type of certification that will allow virtually no prior experience for the person to excel IF that is in the cards for her.

My wife's background follows your first example and it was not easy at all. It would have been almost impossible IF her husband would have been an insecure control freak that would have been threatened by her attaining a special place in society. However, she had all my support since day one and after 9 years she decided to take the plunge. Keep in mind that the State of NY Department of Health recognized her years ago as an MD when we had her degree courses transcribed and assessed for compatibility in the US. The problem was NYS Department of EDUCATION who is the responsible agency for certification of medical degrees. So, for 9 years the US missed on a very competent MD.

So, for those 9 years she chose to be a mother first and work part-time in order to dedicate all her efforts to our son. Was there any problem with her doing that? Not at all.

Now, the other side of the coin can be very ugly. Take for example a good friend who married a very young girl with no apparent marketable abilities. Her husband has a very good job that puts him in the top 20 in this state. She kept saying she wanted to go back to school so she could be "productive." Unfortunately, she fell prey to undesirable elements and all their dreams of a happy family are gone. Still she has managed to successfully market herself. From what I heard, she is an English translator for a mafia Don in eastern Ukraine. So I guess she has definitely some skills after all.

[OlgaH]

Muzh, examples I gave were women immigrants who did their way in the US on their own 

[Muzh]

I came here to be with one person. He did not ask me to love his country, just him. Neither he wanted me to accept anything I dont want.

Bravo.   

Also, what happened to "I can't stand western women attitudes?" Isn't the intent of marrying a RW to get away from all this attitudes because the RWs are oh so "traditional" to the point the man goes out to work and she stays home and makes home cozy? And bake tasty dishes?

[Misha]

What it is all about "cleaning toilets"? Is it some kind of disgraceful job? I think any person who performs a duty job deserves not less respect as a duty job itself.

I agree, and in some ways such jobs are less demeaning than others. I have a friends, she is an immigrant from the FSU and came to Canada with her husband. She now has a variety of contracts to clean up pubs and other businesses. She is earning a very, very good wage. It is not her first choice, but she prefers earning between $30 and $50 an hour cleaning (including toilets) than working minimum wage. She is doing it while studying at college, upgrading her qualifications so she can one day work in her profession. There are some days she would want to go back, but she is staying for her son. She believes that he will have a brighter future in Canada.

[Gator]

I used to post at a big forum, which had a lifestyle section.  From lurking there, I observed a fair number of WW in their late thirties/early forties who were obviously high maintenance/neurotic/downright nuts.  They would start a new relationship which would end in a few months, usually, I surmised, when the man finally figured out "This woman is crazy."  There was just no self realization there, no stepping back to think why do men keep dumping me, and what is my role in this?

FSUW are no different from WW.  The majority want a good home with a man.  But some are neurotic and not someone a normal man wants to live with.

 
Yes, wackiness is everywhere.  We discussed this in another thread "How Many RW are Psychologically Damaged." The discussion suggested to me that the percentage of women with untreated psychological conditions is probably higher in the FSU than in the West, and many of these RW may have gravitated to the international marriage agencies.   The initial occurrence of some condition may be about the same in the West and the FASU, perhaps slightly higher in the FSU because of more economic and family instability.   However, the resources to treat such conditions and the attitude to accept treatment are much reduced. 
 
A parallel question: is alcoholism among FSU males a result of:  genetic predisposition, economic stress, societal acceptance, or the lack of treatment and support?
 
 

The difference is, because these relationships are so compressed, often with linguistic challenges, you are often in "deeper" than you would be with a crazy WW before you realize how crazy she is. 

It is more than compressed time and language barrier.  There are two mentality differences: society culture and age disparity.

[Gator]

My experiences in Ukraine also suggests that most women there are not representative of some of the posters we read on the forum.  That is why I was curious about what Jack and Eduard thought about the comparison of some of the posters and what the norm is in their experience with FSU women that have not yet come to the US.

Keep in mind that many of these UW you met may have restrained themselves in order to sell themselves as Miss Perfect..

[Gator]

I was thinking exactly the same Olga and it's something I've seen many times before here. Scrubbing toilets is actually a part of my job and I have no problem with it or feel like I lack dignity or status or anything like that which some people asscociate jobs like that as.

Or you could be like my two sons who clean their toilets maybe once every three months.   Bad visual.   

[OlgaH]

I agree, and in some ways such jobs are less demeaning than others. I have a friends, she is an immigrant from the FSU and came to Canada with her husband. She now has a variety of contracts to clean up pubs and other businesses. She is earning a very, very good wage. It is not her first choice, but she prefers earning between $30 and $50 an hour cleaning (including toilets) than working minimum wage. She is doing it while studying at college, upgrading her qualifications so she can one day work in her profession. There are some days she would want to go back, but she is staying for her son. She believes that he will have a brighter future in Canada.

Here is a story I had a year before I engaged myself in international dating. I was walking along the old Arbat street with my potential fiancé. We saw a young girl cleaning the floor at one of the cafes. He expressed all his disgust saying that it was a shame to do such job and an idea that it was a student making some money also was unacceptable and he would never let his two daughters students to shame themselves with such job. Word after word and I finally said: "So, you think that a woman cleaner who cleans the sh!t after your Kremlin a$$ in your Kremlin toilets doesn't deserve any respect!" He was a head of one of the Kremlin departments and came to our city with an inspection that how we met. That was another drop among others drops why I dropped him. I always thought where his arrogance came from. He told that he was an orphan from a province who was brought by his grandmother and did not have a spoiled childhood.

Give a person the money and the power and you will see his true nature.

But at least he was open with his attitude. I think the real hypocrisy and arrogance comes when people say "I see nothing wrong with cleaning the toilets... but ..." 

[Ade]

Give a person the money and the power and you will see his true nature.

But at least he was open with his attitude. I think the real hypocrisy and arrogance comes when people say "I see nothing wrong with cleaning the toilets... but ..." 

Interesting attitude but you understand the difference between "disgust and arrogance" and a "dislike and preference", right? For instance, given the choice, I wouldn't be a librarian either; it's relatively low paid and really tedious work IMO. That's a preference especially given my 6 years studying my preferred line of work, rather than an arrogance and disgust.


Whichever way you want to cut it, cleaning as a profession is generally hard, dirty, has crappy (excuse the pun) career prospects and is not particularly pleasant. And, aside from the exceptions (which you and Misha can extol upon until the cows come home if you wish), is generally poorly paid.

[OlgaH]

Interesting attitude but you understand the difference between "disgust and arrogance" and a "dislike and preference", right?

Yes, I do Ade. Sorry, if my post somehow touched your nerve and you had to asked your question 

[Misha]

[size=78%]And, aside from the exceptions (which you and Misha can extol upon until the cows come home if you wish), is generally poorly paid.[/size]

You call it extolling exceptions, I call it countering stereotypes and preconceived notions.

[Ade]

Yes, I do Ade. Sorry, if my post somehow touched your nerve and you had to asked your question 

Well, I assumed you were referring to my "but". I really don't see myself as a hypocrite and I'm not arrogant when it comes to cleaners; the last job my mother had, FWIW, was a cleaner in a hospital. She did that job for 15 years I think. She never complained about it and was generally happy when she got home from work. It's the kind of work that fits some people, but it doesn't suit me. I'm sure that there are many that would hate my job too but I wouldn't consider them somehow arrogant for that nor that they thought any less of me; not that I'd care one way or another what they thought of me either to be honest.

[Ade]

You call it extolling exceptions, I call it countering stereotypes and preconceived notions.

Really? You think anyone here is so ignorant that they don't understand that there are exceptions? That contract cleaners can earn a lot? That people who own their own cleaning businesses can't earn big money?    The Russian woman we know that is currently in a crisis centre because of her controlling, abusive, weirdo soon to be ex-husband, earns $3,500 CAD a month contract cleaning toilets part time. But you know what? She's started getting allergic reactions to the cleaning products and the long term career plan sucks big time.