Are Women's Opinions Really Welcome Here?

[newjason]

On the home page of  RWD there are many things stated why this community is a great place to learn and share experiences, to get advice and to give advice from different perspectives.


We are also fortunate that our membership includes a number of Russian women, both living there and here, who provide us with their invaluable perspective on how this venture is viewed from the "other" side.
 

When I joined this group, I had an understanding that the women in this group had a unique perspective on the whole FSU dating pursuit. As such, I was under the impression that the opinions they expressed were of great value and held in high regard as men simply can not get this view point any other way.

I enjoy the ladies comments very much and although I do not always agree with them , I can understand that all of us are just giving our own opinions to try to bring a broader understanding of our cultures and the poeple who comprise them.


Over the last several days, I have participated in and kept out of some pretty heated discussions. MOst of them being about entitlement and expectations.   These have brought out some very strong emotions from the participants and have opened up some views that I don't think some memebers wanted to see for what they were.

there was a lady who introduced herself as a divorced Russian woman, who was in a bad marriage and wanted to participate in the RWD and meet some people and give some opinions, just like most of us do. Her name was  Vasilisa and She was the  lonely poster who's thread had an amazing number of Views of her introduction thread in comparison to any similar threads. 
As she became more comfortable with voicing her true feelings, her posts became more and more ..  Direct and  to the point.  She was very good about not candy coating her expressions.  As such she got a lot of resistance from the members here ( myself included ) , which made for some great arguments.
An argument is a healthy thing if it is kept constructive IMO

However something very troubling happened two days ago , and not one word has been spoken about  her, or what  happened since. I feel this matter needs attention because I kind of hope that RWD is a fair and balanced place for the exchange of ideas, ideals, and opinions, and not a place where people get attacked because some one doesn't want to accept another persons view point as , just a view point.

Quote from: calmissile on April 04, 2012, 05:09:50 PM
Vasilisa,

I have to agree.  I think you have a sick mind.  I hope you  are not the postergirl of most Ukraine women.  If so, a lot of WM could save a lot of money by staying home!

All of your complaints about the US and US men in particular, makes me wonder.  Why don't you go back home and enjoy the men and culture of your own country?  Perhaps we can take a collection for your ticket.  I would hate to see a damsel trapped in a foreign country she does not like and not be able to return to her homeland.

If WM were resident in your country of origin, and made all the insulting remarks you do, do you think we would be well received by the locals?

Just a thought!

------------------------------------------------------------
Vasilisa's response:
I didn't complain about AM I am dating here. What were my complaints about them, the complains were about your unrealistic expectations.
I am out of here. I am not going to be on the forum where you are trying to help people understand women better wasting yout time and being called sick instead.
People just want to hear what they want to hear, not the truth.
when they insult the RW or UW it's fine, the point is not to hurt the poor men's feelings.
 
bye-bye

This is the last We saw of this woman.
I have already expressed my feelings  about this on that particular thread.
But other than a a few brief sentences by Gator,  nothing was said by anyone.



Is that ok?  Is telling a FSU woman living in america to go back to her own country because we dislike her opinion and viewpoint how we deal with Women?  I personally find this unacceptable disrespectful.


then later on

Ghost of Moon Goddess  Wrote

Quote from: ghost of moon goddess on Yesterday at 09:54:17 AM
"To generalize on women is dangerous. To specialize on them is infinitely worse" 

Quote from: OlgaH on Yesterday at 10:27:45 AM
and with these words the board should be shut down or at least change its name

ghost of moon goddess replied:
   
While at some threads, I feel like I'm living in a climate of utter disgrace to RW and find myself subconsciously seeking  shield over missile threats.
Which makes me think that RWD  stands for Russian Women in Danger   

There are numerous other examples of this feeling becoming common to the women on this site.

Why?

Maybe  I am missing something?



Jason

[Boethius]

Is that ok?  Is telling a FSU woman living in america to go back to her own country because we dislike her opinion and viewpoint how we deal with Women?  I personally find this unacceptable disrespectful.

I don't think it is acceptable to tell anyone to go back to their own country. 

Vasilisa, BTW, was from Russia, not Ukraine.  I, too, think it is unfortunate she stopped posting, and I hope she will return. 

I am not speaking about any particular poster or incident, but things often get said in the heat of the moment that can't always be taken back.  Just like IRL.

We can step in as mods but unless a post is caught immediately, the damage is usually done. 

Internet forums are generally rough and tumble.  I used to post at a couple of subforms on The Atlantic.  The books section was great.  Everyone was respectful, there were some truly brilliant and knowledgeable posters, and it was a joy to participate.  Foreign affairs and politics were really rough at times, resorting to threats of physical violence.

[Faux Pas]

FWIW

Everyone's opinion is valid and valued at RWD. Should a RW's opinion be more valued than a WM's? Absolutely not, nor vice-versa. Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one. Vasilisa's truth was her truth, doesn't mean it's the next man's or woman's. She jumped into the thick of the fray and expressed her position in that thread repeatedly. Then, she got her feelings hurt. Should she have been given a pass or some sort of "special consideration"?

Opinions and posts at RWD usually hold up by their own merit, or not. I personally thought calmissle was over the top with that insulting post but, it was his opinion.

What is it you are suggesting Jason?

[JohnDearGreen]

When I joined this group, I had an understanding that the women in this group had a unique perspective on the whole FSU dating pursuit. As such, I was under the impression that the opinions they expressed were of great   

Most of the RW on this forum are married.  As such, with 1 or 2 exceptions, you generally do not see them post any comments on the negative side of their marriage and dating history.   You will generally not see them post details of the trip report their current husband made with all the pluses and minuses listed.  At least not with any talk about other suitor #2, #3, etc. 


As such, there opinions are sometimes a bit rose-colored views which won't disturb any of their husbands who might read it.  I view the opinions from the 1 or 2 exceptions as more valuable.   Ms. V is divorced, so she more free to discuss the negative side also.

[Darth_Budda]

I hope she comes back too,,, I was hopping to convince her to hang out with me and some of my crazy friends, if she was still up for it after all my crazy rants,,, 
My friends are less crazy, I just like to debate...

I just have to get some court things finished up first. Should be done next week..


This is when a little feminism could come in handy...
This should be a safe place for women to talk, with out personal insults.

Remember we look for RW and UW because they are women, So lets not try to hurt their feelings. Just say you disagree...

[Ade]

Why?

Maybe  I am missing something?

Jason

It's unfortunate that some contributors, both men and women, take the posts of others way too personally and then leave. I also think that many posters, myself included, are a little guilty of phrasing posts too bluntly or being overly harsh on occasion and I guess a lot of interesting people have disappeared as a result. Not much can be done about Calmissle's stupid post - and a  dumbarse post it was too - once it was out and she had read it. Perhaps we should have made a bigger stink about it and the fact that we didn't is perhaps a sign of how jaded and desensitized to drama the long term posters have become.

FWIW, you can't treat women here any differently than the men. Just because they grew up in the FSU, doesn't mean they know any more about dating, marriage or relationships in an international context than the men that come through here. They have opinions just like we do, and I must say, some of their opinions I consider incorrect or idiotic and I strongly disagree with them (as does my wife ).

[Doll]

 
newjason,I've been reading and posting on this forum and the one that was before (not sure exactly is they are related but it doesn't matter) for many years.
 
Not that often but time to time RW opinions are "not valued".
I remember the thread about Ken's (not sure about this nickname) divorce. I experienced an ugly attack of AM members of this board. Absolutely mens  chauvinistic
attack. I suspected this attitude towards RW (not just those on the board), but then it became clear.
 
 Since then I've tried to not participate in the threads too much.
Then I observed more "things" in my and other RW's lives, so now I have a strong feeling (will never change it)  that the attitude towards "RW's opinions" on this forum is an indication of the whole MOB phenomenon.
 Another thing that makes AM members mad and rude is the very manner if writing.
Perhaps, some AM are aware of a different "style" of speaking or writing of the FSU people but AM do not bare it at all. We (RW) have to write exactly the way they are used to, anything else is attacked.
Of course, RW have their own  perspectives just because they belong to their culture and they are or were the "other" part of MOB process. They (we) know things that AM will NEVER know. AM  just don't want to realize it.
 

[Doll]

Quote from: calmissile on April 04, 2012, 05:09:50 PM
Vasilisa,

I have to agree.  I think you have a sick mind.  I hope you  are not the postergirl of most Ukraine women.  If so, a lot of WM could save a lot of money by staying home!

All of your complaints about the US and US men in particular, makes me wonder.  Why don't you go back home and enjoy the men and culture of your own country?  Perhaps we can take a collection for your ticket.  I would hate to see a damsel trapped in a foreign country she does not like and not be able to return to her homeland.

If WM were resident in your country of origin, and made all the insulting remarks you do, do you think we would be well received by the locals?

Just a thought

OMG! I missed this posting!
Your know what? I've heard it many times, I mean MANY. On this board and in life.
I've been contacting with literary hundreds of FSU  "MOB" women here- they heard and still hear it VERY often.
So, nothing new in calmissile's post for RW, trust me.
 

[Doll]

There was a thread on this forum by an AM who works half of his time in Russia (and half in the US) -http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11248.0
This person wanted to talk about what he knew about Russia and RW. He presented himself in a little bit rough way but it was just a mixture of "cultures"- he did not sugarcoat what he thought.
 He thinks that the whole MOB "thing" is quite ugly and doubtful.
Of course, he was attacked by AM members and then banned.
I find his knowledge much more truthful and realistic then anobody else's.
He knew both sides! This made AM mad, of course.
 Bottom line- people here just do not want to hear opinions that are different from theirs. Period.
 

[Daveman]

FWIW, you can't treat women here any differently than the men. Just because they grew up in the FSU, doesn't mean they know any more about dating, marriage or relationships in an international context than the men that come through here. They have opinions just like we do, and I must say, some of their opinions I consider incorrect or idiotic and I strongly disagree with them (as does my wife ).

Absolutely agree....


Some of the women like to stoke sparks into fires and then complain when it gets hot or are seemingly surprised when they get burned.


I wonder what Bruttus' opinion of the treatment of Vasilisa would be?


There are also some women who do nothing but bitch about anything and everything (especially anything USA related) ... who obviously bring problems directly to their own doorsteps via their own attitude. 


It's funny too, because the more I ponder this... these women tend to have "Russia" written all over them.  I have yet to meet a single woman from Ukraine with this "bitch about everything American" attitude.  Not saying they don't exist.  It's just interesting to me that I have yet to meet one... not even one... I am curious as to the reasons why...

[Doll]

Ade, this your "considering idiotic" (opinions) is just what this thread about.
 

[Doll]

these women tend to have "Russia" written all over them.   

What is supposed to be "all over" Russians? "God bless America"?
 

[Daveman]

What is supposed to be "all over" Russians? "God bless America"?
 

Well hell yeah!   


Perhaps it is too unrealistic idealistic, but I believe a blended family must be a little less "American", a little less "Russian", a little more "benefitofthedoubtian", and a hell of a lot more "Familian". 

[Doll]

newjason, one more "funny" detail. Again, I am not sure if it was this forum or another of this kind. There was a discussion (forgot about what) when AM wanted to know the RW opinion. Since there are just 4 or 5 RW here, I posted something about it on  a RW forum, so many RW came here and expressed their points of view. These "points" were not liked (of course) here, then I got a personal message from the admin who accused me in it, he said that so many RW on this board was "my responsibility".
I answered that any person is free to post here or not.
Stuff like this.
No comments.

[Doll]

Well hell yeah!   


Perhaps it is too unrealistic idealistic, but I believe a blended family must be a little less "American", a little less "Russian", a little more "benefitofthedoubtian", and a hell of a lot more "Familian".

Dear, there ARE no "must(s)" here. We do not have to be a blended family.
Just another reminder for you- it is a free country.

[Doll]

I really recommend some people go and read RW forum where women are very sincere.
Ed reads it, I am sure. He knows exactly what RW (UW, etc) feel and think.
Here you may have THE "opinion".

[Daveman]

Dear, there ARE no "must(s)" here. We do not have to be a blended family.
Just another reminder for you- it is a free country.

 




No you don't... you don't have to be a family at all...

[Doll]

 




No you don't... you don't have to be a family at all...

I find it rude, nothing new though.
 

[Daveman]

I really recommend some people go and read RW forum where women are very sincere.
Ed reads it, I am sure. He knows exactly what RW (UW, etc) feel and think.
Here you may have THE "opinion".

I'm sure it would be interesting reading but at the end of the day, there are only two opinions/attitudes/morals/beliefs/value systems which are actually relevant.

[Daveman]

I find it rude, nothing new though.

Interesting again... And what exactly is rude about it?  That I found the comment humorous? Or that I suggest that you are even free to not be a family at all?


Just tellin' like it is without the sugar coating... I was under the impression that you appreciate that quality..

[Doll]

I do,but it makes you having "Russia" all over you 

[Ade]

Ade, this your "considering idiotic" (opinions) is just what this thread about.

How the thought is expressed makes all the difference.


And, FWIW, personally, I did not think Vasilisa's comments were idiotic however, others, like that Stepford-wife like woman that I can't remember the name of, are a different matter.

[Daveman]

I do,but it makes you having "Russia" all over you 

LoL!  Perhaps I've become a little 'Russian' over the years..  fine by me..  hopefully I've become more "blended" and therefore a stronger, better, smarter, and overall more well rounded man! 


But thinking about it even more.. it seems that the "Bitch about everything American" can be isolated further to Western Russia...  I don't recall a single woman from Siberia to Vladivostok with that attitude..  seriously...  though my sample is admittedly quite small...

[Doll]

How the thought is expressed makes all the difference.


And, FWIW, personally, I did not think Vasilisa's comments were idiotic however, others, like that Stepford-wife like woman that I can't remember the name of, are a different matter.

Sure, but here on a "Russian women discussion" board Russians write the way they write- not much of a sugarcoating or political correctness.
This is just how it is.

[Doll]

Daveman, the opinion has nothing to do with geography. Zero.