First timer trip report

[steste1122]

For the record, this TR is kinda long and boring.  Despite being young (31), I consider myself a little old fashioned, am fairly shy, and do not have much experience with women so keep this in mind if you decide to read it.



Moscow Trip report

Day 1: Leaving from Dallas 
Ok, so today is the start of my trip.  Leaving from Dallas to JFK in New York, and then on to SVO in Moscow.  Except Im still here.  Ok there is an electrical issue with the plane, and should only take 20 minutes to fix. About an hour and forty five minutes later we are finally airborne.  Then I arrive at JFK, and am told by the Customer Service Rep to RUN to gate a gate that I promise could not be further away and still be in the same building.  I get there and they say, oh that flight left long ago, but that I should check to make sure I was rescheduled for another flight.  I go and check and sure enough, instead of a Delta flight I am now booked on an Aeroflot flight 3 hours later. So I check in and I am assured my luggage will be transferred over.  The flight goes well, although it was much more cramped than I am used to on overseas flights.

Day 2:  Arrival at SVO
I have arrived in Moscow.  Did not have any problems finding my way and getting through passport control.  Go to baggage area to find that my luggage, and the others from my Dallas flight, did not get transferred over.  Not panicking or anything, I go to Aeroflot lost and found to report it, and I am assured it will come on the next flight and be delivered the next day.  Now I am exiting the airport and find the driver for Moscow Rick waiting to take me to my apartment.  He drives a Peugeot which I have never been in before and its not a bad car.  At one point I see vendors selling windshield wiper fluid on the side of the road and wonder why anyone would do that, but quickly see why as the driver has to clean his windshield every couple of minutes.  I get to the apartment and everything is in order, nice and clean the location is great.  Shops are everywhere.  I make contact with my lady and a quick call home to let everyone know I am safe.  Lily and I agree to meet in a couple hours since I need to grab a change of clothes and some toiletry items to hold me over till my luggage arrives.  I am running around trying to find these items and finally find some mens clothes (which were fairly expensive) and a really nice British guy at my apartment was kind enough to take me to a nearby pharmacy and help me get some toiletry items.  On my way back to the apartment I found a vendor selling tulips and picked some up for the lady.  So now I get showered and shaved and finish just in time to meet her downstairs.  What a dream come true for me! We recognized each other instantly, and I gave her the flowers.  I made a small joke that they were not  as nice what I had sent on Womens Day and that it was the best I could do with the little time I had, but she didnt mind and was very happy for them. We were going to meet some of her colleagues at the Hard Rock Cafe, but on the way she was concerned since I had not eaten all day and practically made me find someplace nearby.  We picked a nice Italian eatery, Mi Piace.  I was not sure what to expect when I saw on the front of the menu a child making a disturbing looking face, but the food actually turned out really nice.  We had both ordered a pizza and some wine, and were enjoying ourselves so much that we canceled meeting her friends and just sat there talking.  Finally though we had to leave as she knew that at this point I had been awake for close to 2 days solid.  Of course if it was up to me, I would have gladly stayed awake all night talking.

[steste1122]

Day 3: Still no luggage

inally I am rested a little and recovered some of my wits.  I dont have any plans for today since I still need my luggage.  I call the airline to check on it and they say one of my two bags has arrived and I need to call the delivery service to see if it is coming today.  The delivery service does not speak english though.  Luckily she understands just enough to tell me it will be delivered tomorrow, and hopefully it will be the large bag as it has most of my clothes and gifts.  Finally later in the day I get a call saying my bags are at the airport, but I must pick them up to put them through customs.  I thought they said they would be delivered, but fine it is no problem, I am just glad they are here so I agree to come pick them up.  Due to not being able to leave my apartment I am not able to spend any time with my lady today, but I talk with her and she agrees to go to the airport with me to help locate my bags.  Since I now know that it is safe to leave the apartment I decide to find a place to eat.  I check my Lonely Planet travel guide and I see that Night Flight is literally about 100 feet from my apartment, so it sounds like a good place to try.  I go in and make my way up to the restaurant and a very gorgeous waitress takes me to my table—easily the most attractive lady I have seen yet.  I order the Night Flight special steak since it seems to be a good choice and nicely priced, and aside from something they put on top of it that was kind of sour it was pretty good.  While eating, a Russian woman at the table next to me starts up a conversation with me, and seems to be pretty nice.  After the meal I feel like having a beer so I head downstairs to the bar.  This gets interesting.  I grab a beer (Newcastle Brown Ale, cant believe they have this here) and grab a seat.  It is still early and already the women outnumber the men and many of them look really nice.  I have only been sitting a minute when I am approached by a attractive but kind of slutty looking woman.  She asks if I am looking for some company and I say no, I am just gonna enjoy my beer and she goes away.  A minute later an even more attractive woman comes over and I let her sit with me.  She eventually tells me that they all work here, and I am like excuse me? Then she says you know, prostitutes. And then the light above my head finally clicks on.  But she seems kinda nice and friendly so I talk to her for a bit and buy her a coffee.  Finally, she says she must get back to work and I finish my beer and leave (yeah I know, this could have turned into a really awesome trip report right here). 

Day 4: Yay, luggage!

We agree to meet at 1130, but she is running late (she is a woman after all), so we barely have time to get to the metro and catch the Aeroexpress train to SVO.   We board with just a minute to spare.  We get to the airport and I let her do all the talking.  It is actually impressive watching her talk, she quickly finds out where we need to be and we head off.  We finally find the area where lost bags are stored and I do not think they could have made it anymore difficult to get to it.  She was actually able to create an echo with her voice down the hall.  Anyway, they have my bags and we quickly get out of there.  I had already arranged for a driver to meet us at the airport to take us back to the apartment.  She is unsure of this driver (even though it is the same one I took when I arrived) and starts asking him questions about who he works for.  I am a little touched that she is still trying to look after me and make sure I am not being taken advantage of.  Once we arrive at my apartment I start to unpack a few things so I can give her the gifts I brought for her.  I think in this I did quit well.  I gave her some books, a couple tee shirts from Arkansas, some lotions from Victorias Secret, a bottle of Prada's Infusion De Iris, and a bag that I had picked up at the JFK airport to hold everything because I had run out of time to get it gifted.  She was so thrilled, and was very impressed that I knew all the things she loved.  This earned me a very nice hug.  Next, she decided we should take a walk down to Red Square since it is only a half mile away.  Once we get there though there is a bunch of commotion as someone is being arrested for protesting the president and the square is closed till the next day.  We next just started walking around taking pictures and talking.  We make it to the GUM department store and I get to meet a couple of her colleagues from work, a couple of nice guys who recommend we try eating at this cafeteria like restaurant at the end of the mall.  Since we are both hungry we make our way down there.  It smells really good, but this is food I am unfamiliar with so I pick a few things that look ok (I am a picky eater).  Some of it was ok, some bad, but the meatballs were pretty good, actually similar to what my mom makes.  We walk around and she wants to take a picture of me, and of course I take some of her as well.  Finally we leave GUM and just start wondering around the area.  We finally end up in Old Arbat neighborhood, and walk along the shops.  We stop at a coffee shop to take a break from walking.  I feel kind of guilty because usually she likes to relax on the weekend and here I am having her walk all over the place, but she says she is having a good time.  We order some tea, and we share a banana split while talking.  While we are talking her sister calls and she asks to speak to me.  Her sister doesnt speak english as well as she does, but after just a few minutes she wants to invite me to visit in Kazan next week!  I say I would love to but will not be in town next week.  Finally we leave and she helps me navigate the subway back to my place so she can pick up her bag,  then I walk her down to the metro where I hug her goodnight and she gives me a kiss on the cheek.  I know many of you think oh its just a kiss on the cheek but to me it is a great end to a great day.

[steste1122]

Day 5: Snow and Steaks 

Because Lily has to work, I am gonna be doing most of my sightseeing solo.  This day it is very cold and the wind is blowing down snow very hard, but for some reason I dont mind at all.  At home I would not even go outside in this kind of weather and would break into shivers just looking out the window.  Here it is different.  Maybe it is a mind thing and seeing everyone else not be bothered makes me think its not so bad.  Or maybe I am channeling my ancestors (part of my family immigrated from Russia around 1890).  Whatever it is, I am enjoying the cold and the snow.  Since I dont really have anything scheduled, I decide to walk down to Red Square and just take some pictures.  Spend most of my day doing this and just walking around.  We have agreed to meet later after she gets off work.  So I leave my apartment and for the first time attempt to travel the subway by myself.  Hmm.   According to my instructions I am to take the green line 3 stops and I will be at her building.  Sounds simple doesnt it?  Well I find the green one and go 3 stops and do not see any office buildings.  I find the subway map and find out I had went the wrong direction.  Oh well could be worse.  I quickly get back downstairs and go 6 stops in the proper direction and finally end up where I am supposed to be.  We meet at Starbucks and together we walk a few blocks to an American steakhouse called Louisiana.  Like many of you I am wondering why anyone would ever think to associate Louisiana with having steaks good enough to warrant having a restaurant named after it, but after eating there I have to say it was actually pretty good.  Nothing really noteworthy happened tonight, we just spent the evening getting to know each other better and we parted with a hug at the metro.

Day 6: Nothing spectacular 

Another workday, but more snow and cold! Im still winging this vacation.  I do some more walking and picture taking down to Old Arbat since I did not get to take any the first time I was down there.  That evening my lady has a massage scheduled which she missed on sunday because she was with me.  I almost suggest that I give her a massage, however she earlier turned down my legitimate offer to just watch a movie together at my apartment because she feels not ready for it yet.  Maybe she didnt understand that I really did just want to spend time with her and not some deeper intentions.  Anyway, I decide to spend the evening finding some live music. Unfortunately my search was unsuccessful so I ended up at a pub having a few drinks and went home.

[steste1122]

Day 7: Friends and Bowling

Today the weather is looking much better, still cold but the sun is starting to come out.  I do my usual thing, walking and taking pictures. Today I go back to Red Square and take some more pictures, and visit the State History Museum.  I spent several hours walking through here and climbing stairs and taking pictures.  For anyone who hasnt been yet, make sure you wear some comfortable shoes.  After this I go back and take a short nap before leaving to meet her.  Once again we meet at the Starbucks at her office, and then we leave to go have diner before meeting her friends at the bowling alley.  We eat at a place called the Airplane in english near the club 16 Tons.  The food is Georgian, think it was called shaslick or something and tasted not bad. I have to say though, she seems to have a healty appetite, something I dont see often with AW.  This is not a bad thing as she eats healthy and is in pretty good condition (she doesnt have the body of a super model but is still extremely beautiful).  Next we head over to the bowling area and meet her friends.  I think this is a good sign that she wants to show me off to her friends and everything.  Luckily for me most of her friends speak a little english, although most of the conversations are in Russian.  My lady is able to translate some of it so that I feel included in the conversation.  We drink, and laugh, and have a really nice time together.  I almost feel sad, knowing that someday I may possibly have the chance to marry this woman and separate her from these wonderful friends.  Finally though, it is getting late and they all have to work in the morning so we head for the metro.  Somehow all the male friends have already left so here I am walking with 5 beautiful women and thinking yeah I could get used to this.  At the metro we go our separate ways, but not before getting another hug and kiss on the cheek. 

Day 8: Mmmm, Pelmeni 

Today, I wake up to find that it has been snowing pretty good (at least to me its snowed pretty good as there is about 2 inches on the cars).  First thing on the agenda is a quick breakfast at the Double Coffee right next door.  I was attempting to tell the waitress I wanted what they call pancakes (think we call them crepes) with strawberries but ended up getting strawberry cheesecake.  Usually I would not eat cheesecake, but I said what the heck eat it and was happy with it.  After this I consult my map and find my way to the Glinka Museum of Musical Culture.  Nice museum, and entrance was only 200 rubles.  Down side to this though was no photography was allowed, but I managed to sneak a few with my iphone anyway...shhhh.  One of the things they had on display was a Strativarius violin.  Next I decided to go have lunch, and stopped at the McDonalds in Pushkin Square.  For those you asking why would I go to a McD when there are all these nice places around, well it just so happens this is the worlds largest McDonalds with total seating for 700!  I told Lily this and she didnt even know this fact.  So, anyway me and the lady decide to do our usual thing and meet at her office before heading to diner.  On the way I grab some roses from one of the many florists located in the metro.  Why cant we have stuff like this back home? And its priced so well, I am going to have to get some numbers for local florists before I go back home.  I pick her up at her usual time (which is usually about 10-20 min late) but I dont mind, and offer to take one of her bags since she is now holding the flowers.  She is afraid I will look strange to the locals but I tell her let them laugh, I know something they dont.  She knows I like beer so she suggests we go to a beer house right in front of the Boshoi Theater.  Nice view, good beer and good food? Sure why not.  I pick one of my usual favorite beers, New Castle Brown Ale from among the hundreds (literally) offered and she trys one from Belgium she remembers having before.  Also, she suggests that I eat something Russian and makes some suggestions like borsch and veal gelatin, but I am not that brave yet so she says what about pelmini.  It is available in red and white fish, beef and pork, duck, deer, and bear and elk.  I decide to go with the deer with clear soup and she has the duck.  I really enjoyed mine, and her duck was pretty good as well.  Maybe it is the culture here, but I have never before shared so much with a woman I was with.  Since our first meeting we have been eating off each others plates and sharing a glass.  We end the night with a nice walk up Tverskaya street and we part at the metro with a hug.

[steste1122]

Day 9:  Banya, the gulag, and disappointment 

I had told Lily one of the things I wanted to do while here was to visit a banya, so she suggests the Sandusky Banya as its one of the few with English speaking workers.  Its only about a 15 minute walk and is easy enough to find so I go.  Turns out their english is not that great but I eventually figure out where I need to go and the correct procedure and attire.  The first few rounds I stay on the lowest level to get used to the heat, and have to say its not bad.  While getting acclimated a guy slipped down the steps in front of me-totally naked, and I almost reacted to grab him to stop his slide.  However, as I was also in nothing but a towel, I think I rightly decided this would not be the right thing to do.  After a few sessions downstairs, I get the nerve to head upstairs.  Yeah, its a tad bit warmer up there.  It reminded me of the time I spent in Iraq, only with 1000x the humidity.  At first it wasnt too bad.  But then the guys kept pouring more water on the bricks and also throwing some water mixed with something that smelled nice on the wall for scent.  I stayed in as long as I could—about 4-6 mins, before running out to cool off.  After repeating this process several times over the next hour and a half I am feeling relaxed right down to the bone.  Once back in the apartment I let Lily know that I did it, and really enjoyed it.  She is very surprised, as she thought I was just playing with her, but she is glad that I went and enjoyed it.  Next on todays agenda was a visit to the Gulag Museum.  What an interesting place (today) to visit.  I explored it from top to bottom, taking as many pictures as I can (once again it is not really allowed unless you pay extra).  It has several above ground levels and 2 that are below ground, complete with cells.  One of the more interesting parts of the museum though is the photo collection showing the original prints and the copies that had been doctored and published with people removed.  Later this evening I once again meet Lilia at her office, and is wearing green instead of her usual pink.  The day before I had commented why she always wears pink and she says it is because she loves it.  I told her I love it too and think it looked great on her, but I guess today she decided to wear green because she knew it was my favorite color!  We decide that we should go have diner and then maybe find some live music somewhere.  We end up at this great place called Cafe Chehov.  What a beautiful and elegant restaurant!  Lily tells me this place is owned by the owner of a local theater and the place is often filled with famous actors, and indeed spots one while we are there (I dont know who it was though).  It also had the classiest bathroom I have ever seen—the toilet was one of those old fashioned types that was flushed by pulling a cord suspended from a tank and there were also birds singing in there.  She had borsch, some sort of chicken, and a glass of belgium beer, and I had the trout even though I do not usually eat fish because I wanted to try new things that I would not always have at home, and also some soup and vodka for the drink because hey its Russia.  Of course, being the great restaurant that it was the fish was great, and so was her borsch.  Next we look for some live performances nearby and decide to go listen to some live jazz.  We get there though, and I for the first time this trip I am shocked at the expense of a ticket at this venue.  I apologize and tell her it is a little unreasonable to me, and would rather save a little money for tomorrow—our last day together, and make it really special.  I also carefully explain to her that I am not cheap, and that I am also not rich. I consider myself about average for my location and do well for a single guy.  She says it is ok and she understands.  Having no other ideas for where we can go to enjoy our time we head back toward Pushkin Square, and at that point I show her the worlds largest McDonalds, and she decides we should go in to have a drink.  I guess she feels guilty for me spending so much money on her that she decides she will pay for our drinks, which I tell her is unnecessary but she insists.  We dont really have any more ideas for what to do this night, so we decide to call it an evening and decide to meet again the next day and say our usually goodbye.

Day 10: Last day before leaving 

Being my last full day in town, I really wanted to show her a good time, especially since I kind of disappointed her last night.  We had plans to go see Sophie Milan in a concert at the Moscow International House of Music, so we decide to meet near here work place since it is close to there.  We have a little confusion because she is running a little late as usual (I am always early so really opposites must attract), and after we scare each other by not being able to find one another we finally get together and I give her a bouquet of spring flowers because it did not seem that spring was coming to Moscow anytime soon, so I thought I would bring a little bit to her.  She loved them very much.  Due to our late meeting though, we do not have time to eat before the show so we head straight to the venue and get our tickets.  Sadly the only tickets available were in the balcony.  Luckily though, the usher told Lily that if someone did not make it by the third call we could fill their seats.  Third call comes and there are several empty seats so we are free to choose.  We go down in the amphitheater and start looking for seats, but an usher directs us to 2 seats 6 rows from the stage right in the middle—very nice!  We are really enjoying the show until they call a break.  During this break though the rightful owners of our seats show up.  Oops.  He is nice about it at least, and it serves him right for not being on time anyway.  After we break we still manage to find some nice seats and enjoy the rest of the show.  Oh and I forgot to mention, she is again wearing green and brown, my favorite colors to wear.  As we are leaving she is still carrying the flowers I had given her, and has to go to the restroom while I grab our coats.  She comes back and says that all the women are looking at her funny and asking why she still had the flowers, did she not want to give them to the singer?  She says no they were a gift to her.  That makes me feel nice, even though I wouldnt have minded if she gave them to the singer.  Now it us late and neither of us have eaten except for some snacks at the bar, so we decide to try an English pub near the Hard Rock Cafe in Old Arbat since I needed to stop by HRC for some souvenirs anyway.  We both order our food and this time she chooses New Castle Brown Ale to drink, same as me.  She tells me she rarely drinks beer, but with me she knows I like it so she tries it anyway (despite my offer to get her anything she wants).  We enjoy the meal, but now it is a rush to beat the closing of the metro.  We make it on and return to our places alone.

[steste1122]

Day 11: Goodbyes, and the return home

We agree to meet in the morning at 8:00 and to leave for the airport at 8:30.  I wake up early of course, and turn on skype, expecting to see her say she is on her way.  Since she has been late a few times, I am a little worried she may be behind today as well.  The closer it gets to 8:30 the more nervous I get.  Finally at 8:40 she comes online and says she is exiting the subway and to meet me outside.  I meet her and tell her she had me worried, but she says do not worry, I promised I would get you there in plenty of time.  We take the aero express to SVO.  Her mom calls, and wishes me a safe trip home.  I think she only thinks I was there as a friend though.  We get to the airport, find my gate and check my bags and all that, and now its time for the goodbye.  She has her camera and asks a guy to take a picture of us.  Now its time to enter security so I give her a hug and start to walk away.  I only make it few steps before I turn around and embrace her again and give her a kiss on the cheek, (I dont think she is ready for a real kiss).  Then I leave, looking back to see that she is still there watching me, and we wave one last time.  Gonna skip the flight as it was boring, but will say that Delta is way more comfortable than Aeroflot.  I land in New York and proceed through passport control.  How funny it is to be back where everyone speaks spanish.  I also think its funny that it takes me about an hour and a half to make it through passport control here, as opposed to the 5 minutes it took me in Moscow.  Anyway, I continue on to Dallas where I will drive back to Arkansas (5 hour drive).  I collect my bags and find my car (6 month old Mini Cooper Coupe).  What a perfect end to this trip.  Someone has managed to hit the side of my car.  And, I guess because I am that lucky, I also have severe hail damage from the storms that went through while I was away.  So now this vacation/meeting that was supposed to be one of the happiest moments in my life now has me on the verge of tears (not because of the damage itself, it just seems at this point like it was not meant to be for me to be happy). 

Final Thoughts: 

So how do I think my first trip went?  Ignoring the terrible start and ending, I am disappointed that we did not go any further than a kiss on the cheek.  I was not expecting sex, but I did think that a kiss on the lips would not be too much to ask for someone who flew halfway around the world to visit you.  But as we agreed in the beginning, this trip was to enhance our communication and to learn as much about each other as possible.  In that it was a success.  I like her very much, but I cannot be sure of her feelings for me.  I am going to keep trying for now, but unless she becomes more clear I do not see us being together much longer.

[Daveman]

Excellent report. I am impressed that you went prowling around so much on your own on your first trip. Cool deal.


As far as the emotional involvement.  What does your gut tell you?  It doesn't seem that you (at least from the story) tried to kiss her, or indicate to her that you really want more..  She could be wondering why...  but anyway, you know how things went.


Many/most/maybe all don't really think anything special about a man flying half way around the world.  It's still just a meeting and she doesn't owe you anything (or you her).

[Spoon]

Nice trip report steste1122 Brings back a lot of memories for me, you went to a few places that I recall going to as well - was it John Bull pub? that you went to near Old Arbat (it's around the corner and down the road a bit). Next time you'll have to try Kolbasoff (it's a chain of pubs), but I have yet to be disappointed with the food - (great sausages) - and drink there. Also Кофе Хауз (Coffee House) do a good brew

As far as the lady is concerned - well, it's a first trip sounds like you are both the shy, reserved type. So don't sweat it too much. It's probably important now to try and dig and find out her true feelings of how the trip went, so you can decide if she is right for you.

Good luck, and look forward to hearing more.

[Goombah]

Well... tough to call.  I suspect you have read a lot of stories here, but I'll give you my 2 cents.

First: She didn't sleep with you day one (or hour one!) - that's a pretty good sign she doesn't do that with anyone else coming to visit her either.

Second:  How "far" you got depends I suppose on what mutual expectations you had.  I've reported before that my (now) wife and I had exchanged 640 e-mails of significant length before I went to visit (and that only took a couple of months).  I could go look, but I believe #2 or #3 (and maybe #1?) had the phrase "I'm not looking to date, I'm looking for a wife".  She responded "Good, I'm also not looking to date, I'm looking for a husband.".  Now that may sound odd to the normal American who dates his hopeful for 2-4 years before popping the question, but I dare say that establishing those ground rules is what lead to our numerous e-mails.  We were both clear up front, and both were trying to explore each other.  Do to language differences, the written words worked rather well.  Even then, we established early that if anything sounded "off" to please ask for clarification - some things just don't translate well.  So...

If you went to visit a girl as a vacation with hopes it might turn into something better as you got to know each other - I'd say you were successful.

On the other hand, if this was just a chemistry test, having had a lot of previous communication and she knew that this was one of perhaps only a few visits before you got married..  Well... either she is not very affectionate, or was just being kind to you for having come and visit but isn't interested.

I would suggest a carefully worded e-mail (presuming you do exchange e-mails directly - not through an agency) asking the question in a  "no fault" way.  Others may comments, but perhaps something like "Lily - I really enjoyed my trip to Moscow and appreciate all the care and attention you provided me.  I would like to come back and visit you in ? months if you would like to take our relationship further.".

For the record, a week or so before I arrived we had agreed to start working on the Visa paperwork if all things went well.  There is a LOT of documentation required.  The fact that she provided me that documentation made it PERFECTLY clear that she wished to continue and wasn't just being "nice" to me for traveling so far.   She also took the week off of work while I was there.   If this was "just a casual visit" doing that wouldn't be expected in my opinion.  If this was "Wow!  The man I think I want to marry is coming!", then I would have expected her to take time off work - and for things to progress beyond a light kiss.

Good luck!

[XMan]

Nice trip report.  Overall, it seems you enjoyed yourself.  Nice handling of the luggage scenario as well. 

Honestly, if one dated a woman half-a-dozen times here in the USA, and there was never a "real" goodnight kiss, that would seem to be a solid indicator of the level of interest.  If you are not certain, ask her. 

[Darth_Budda]

Moscow is more expensive than New York city,,,
So I am not surprised the jazz club was a shock!

Thanks for the good read...

If you go back to see her, make sure she takes some time off of work...
Otherwise don't bother... IMHO,,
But again Moscow is the most expensive city in the world to live in so she may not be able to afford to take a day off. So if she does it means a lot...

Maybe a joint vacation in Finland would be a good idea?

My thoughts, I am a un-experienced newbie though..
Listen to the other guys, than decide for yourself...

[Spoon]

Well... tough to call.  I suspect you have read a lot of stories here, but I'll give you my 2 cents.

First: She didn't sleep with you day one (or hour one!) - that's a pretty good sign she doesn't do that with anyone else coming to visit her either.

Second:  How "far" you got depends I suppose on what mutual expectations you had.  I've reported before that my (now) wife and I had exchanged 640 e-mails of significant length before I went to visit (and that only took a couple of months).  I could go look, but I believe #2 or #3 (and maybe #1?) had the phrase "I'm not looking to date, I'm looking for a wife".  She responded "Good, I'm also not looking to date, I'm looking for a husband.".  Now that may sound odd to the normal American who dates his hopeful for 2-4 years before popping the question, but I dare say that establishing those ground rules is what lead to our numerous e-mails.  We were both clear up front, and both were trying to explore each other.  Do to language differences, the written words worked rather well.  Even then, we established early that if anything sounded "off" to please ask for clarification - some things just don't translate well.  So...

If you went to visit a girl as a vacation with hopes it might turn into something better as you got to know each other - I'd say you were successful.

On the other hand, if this was just a chemistry test, having had a lot of previous communication and she knew that this was one of perhaps only a few visits before you got married..  Well... either she is not very affectionate, or was just being kind to you for having come and visit but isn't interested.

I would suggest a carefully worded e-mail (presuming you do exchange e-mails directly - not through an agency) asking the question in a  "no fault" way.  Others may comments, but perhaps something like "Lily - I really enjoyed my trip to Moscow and appreciate all the care and attention you provided me.  I would like to come back and visit you in ? months if you would like to take our relationship further.".

For the record, a week or so before I arrived we had agreed to start working on the Visa paperwork if all things went well.  There is a LOT of documentation required.  The fact that she provided me that documentation made it PERFECTLY clear that she wished to continue and wasn't just being "nice" to me for traveling so far.   She also took the week off of work while I was there.   If this was "just a casual visit" doing that wouldn't be expected in my opinion.  If this was "Wow!  The man I think I want to marry is coming!", then I would have expected her to take time off work - and for things to progress beyond a light kiss.

Good luck!

Sound very similar to my story, Goombah.

A lot of the groundwork was done in the correspondence stage (and I mean a lot!! 1000+ emails each) so the first meeting was the final test to see if chemistry was there on the physical level.

So depending on how long the OP has been corresponding with his lady will determine at what level his first trip comes in on.

[Goombah]

If you go back to see her, make sure she takes some time off of work...
Otherwise don't bother... IMHO,,
But again Moscow is the most expensive city in the world to live in so she may not be able to afford to take a day off. So if she does it means a lot...

Maybe a joint vacation in Finland would be a good idea?

I agree with the time off comments.  If you went back and she did not make it clear she was going to dedicate the time to you, I wouldn't bother.  That said, I had no idea my wife took time off until I got there.  It was a pleasant surprise.

Our second meeting was in Jamaica - we spent 9 days at one of the family all-inclusive resorts (Sandals in Negril?).  It was just me, her, and her 9 year old daughter.  Yeah, this was our final decision week - our 2nd test together before going through all the hops to get here to the USA.  We felt it was appropriate to include her daughter.  We agreed to focus 100% on the three of us (her daughter got a bit short changed on that!), the resort meant we didn't need to worry about food, or sightseeing, etc.  It worked out rather well.

[noelscot]

Day 9:  Banya, the gulag, and disappointment 

I had told Lily one of the things I wanted to do while here was to visit a banya, so she suggests the Sandusky Banya

The peanut gallery must be asleep at the wheel. You went to the Sandusky banya? Glad you didn't get Sanduskyed in there.
Great trip report.

[tfcrew]

For the record, this TR is kinda long and boring. [Not at all] Leaving from Dallas to JFK ...

They lost our luggage after we got back from the visa interview [years ago].
We are over in Garland.
Get in touch anytime.

Now about 'scoring' on the first visit...[to the newbies].. if you do...then so will the next guy wouldn't you think?

[ML]

First: She didn't sleep with you day one (or hour one!) - that's a pretty good sign she doesn't do that with anyone else coming to visit her either.

First, I am not referring to this particular gal.
Second, let's drop this 'sleep' word.  Sleep is what you do for 8 hours when your body is tired.

It is totally false that not having sex with one guy means a gal doesn't do that with anyone else coming to visit her either.

And, likewise, it is totally false to think that if a gal has sex with a particular guy, that she has sex with others who  come to visit her.

A particular gal could have sex with 9 out of 10 guys . . . and still not have sex with the 10th guy.

Or not have sex with 9 out of 10 guys; and have sex with 10th guy.

Like tossing a coin; each event is independent and doesn't depend on the previous event.

[ML]

Now about 'scoring' on the first visit...[to the newbies].. if you do...then so will the next guy wouldn't you think?

No . . . I wouldn't think.

But I know it gives some guys a lot of comfort to think like this.

[noelscot]

First, I am not referring to this particular gal.
Second, let's drop this 'sleep' word.  Sleep is what you do for 8 hours when your body is tired.

It is totally false that not having sex with one guy means a gal doesn't do that with anyone else coming to visit her either.

And, likewise, it is totally false to think that if a gal has sex with a particular guy, that she has sex with others who  come to visit her.

A particular gal could have sex with 9 out of 10 guys . . . and still not have sex with the 10th guy.

Or not have sex with 9 out of 10 guys; and have sex with 10th guy.

Like tossing a coin; each event is independent and doesn't depend on the previous event.

As a UM told me, "She is not your girlfriend until you put your pink stick in her." Talk about off color remarks! lol.
Figured I'd throw in some sage FSU wisdom to simplify this.
The moral of the story is that you want to be the ONE boyfriend, not ONE of NINE boyfriends.

[steste1122]

Well, like I said the purpose of the trip was for us to communicate, not to get laid.  I understood going over that she would not be able to take time off, we were planning to take a joint vacation in may but my military obligations changed that. I can take another vacation this summer if things continue to go well.  One thing though makes me think we may not work, and that is my location.  She wants to move away from a major city like moscow, but my town of 20k may be too small and not exciting enough.  It has its advantages though, such as good schools and college is paid for through a grant from my employer for any child that graduates, and a low cost of living since i will be the only one working, at least initially.  I do ok for a single income, and im just starting my career so things will get better.  Another thing is I am not the best at communicating. It has always been my downfall, but i think i am getting better.  Thanks to all who have read it so far

[steste1122]

The peanut gallery must be asleep at the wheel. You went to the Sandusky banya? Glad you didn't get Sanduskyed in there.
Great trip report.

You mean this probably was not a good idea? Please tell me more.

Lily was pretty surprised that i did not mind going out and getting lost.  Part of her job is helping foreigners get into moscow for her company and says most of them are scared to get out.  Maybe i am crazy, but i spent 6 months in kuwait and never had an issue with getting about alone. Wasnt going to start worrying here.

[Patagonie]

Well, like I said the purpose of the trip was for us to communicate, not to get laid.  I understood going over that she would not be able to take time off, we were planning to take a joint vacation in may but my military obligations changed that. I can take another vacation this summer if things continue to go well.  One thing though makes me think we may not work, and that is my location.  She wants to move away from a major city like moscow, but my town of 20k may be too small and not exciting enough.  It has its advantages though, such as good schools and college is paid for through a grant from my employer for any child that graduates, and a low cost of living since i will be the only one working, at least initially.  I do ok for a single income, and im just starting my career so things will get better.  Another thing is I am not the best at communicating. It has always been my downfall, but i think i am getting better.  Thanks to all who have read it so far

Tell me the difference between two friends and a couple ?
If you want her let go with an other man or fucked by a local one continue with this demeanor : "the purpose of the trip was for us to communicate, not to get laid".
If you want a pen pal, why do you need to spend so much money ?
With an FSU woman, if she likes you (like any woman in the world ) you need to make a move. You are the MAN.

[Belvis]

Another thing is I am not the best at communicating.

The key phrase in my view. I've got impression you know close to nothing about this girl or her world, at least did not reveal much about in TR.  So you were strangers to each other, why she should feel affection? The trip looks like a first date streached out for  10 days.
Nothing wrong being not the best at communicating, it just requires more time to develop relationships.

[Chelseaboy]

steste1122,
                I if travelled to meet a girl,and spent as much time as you did with her,over a 11 day period,i would expect at least a kiss on the lips from her,if she was seriously interested in me that is.Did you try and kiss her on the lips,but kept getting her cheek offered instead ?
No-one can know her mind except her of course,but at this stage i'm guessing she only sees you as a friend.
She hasn't exactly given you a lot of motivation to go and see her again has she ? To my mind,if a girl doesn't even want to kiss me,it shows me she has no real feelings for me,so i'm out of there.
A kiss from her would at least have given you some kind of feeling that she's into you.
I wonder if these girls are so coy with the local guys ?
 

[Patagonie]

The key phrase in my view. I've got impression you know close to nothing about this girl or her world, at least did not reveal much about in TR.  So you were strangers to each other, why she should feel affection? The trip looks like a first date streached out for  10 days.
Nothing wrong being not the best at communicating, it just requires more time to develop relationships.

It is every time the same with people who are shy with social and women : they believe the girl is special, too shy, and it will need a huge time and huge effort to enter in a relationship.
Don't lie to yourself, you know that you are not comfortable, and because you are not comfortable nothing moves.
Really i would you consider to work on this problem, and you can do it at home.
When i read :  But as we agreed in the beginning, this trip was to enhance our communication and to learn as much about each other as possible.  In that it was a success.  I like her very much, but I cannot be sure of her feelings for me.  I am going to keep trying for now, but unless she becomes more clear I do not see us being together much longer.
You agreed in the beginning to enhance your communciation ? Perhaps you can stay at home to have a HR training. Really you don't have to explain anything, to ask a permission, or to agree. You just have to tell a FSU woman : i think you are interesting, now i would like to meet you, i will be free from X to Y, what do you think (mean for her : are you free ?). You don't need to tell her : we will have only communication, don't worry with sex, i will not use it, i will let it at home or put in the fridge. Hey buddy your are not with western women ! You don't need to come like a little boy "hey may i sit with you on the couch, don't be afraid look i have let my balls at home, mum keep them."
I know many of you think oh its just a kiss on the cheek but to me it is a great end to a great day.
I almost suggest that I give her a massage, however she earlier turned down my legitimate offer to just watch a movie together at my apartment because she feels not ready for it yet.  Maybe she didnt understand that I really did just want to spend time with her and not some deeper intentions.  Anyway, I decide to spend the evening finding some live music.
You don't have to excuse you to make a move.
When i make a massage to a woman i can tell you that i have more than deep intentions for her. 

I think you hugely need to meet a ton of girls and practice the local scene. Even if FSU are tolerant with shy guys it is not the battlefield to start your first campaign.

[Darth_Budda]

steste1122,
                I if travelled to meet a girl,and spent as much time as you did with her,over a 11 day period,i would expect at least a kiss on the lips from her,if she was seriously interested in me that is.Did you try and kiss her on the lips,but kept getting her cheek offered instead ?
No-one can know her mind except her of course,but at this stage i'm guessing she only sees you as a friend.
She hasn't exactly given you a lot of motivation to go and see her again has she ? To my mind,if a girl doesn't even want to kiss me,it shows me she has no real feelings for me,so i'm out of there.
A kiss from her would at least have given you some kind of feeling that she's into you.
I wonder if these girls are so coy with the local guys ?

He sounds shy with women,,, Liquid courage was needed!! Just a little 6 beers will do ya... Should of tried the movie at your place thing again...

Maybe we should discuss how best to move in for the first kiss,,,,

Okay off to work for me!