I'll give you guys some feedback based on what I experienced in russia

[Hammer2722]

The OP titled the thread:

I'll give you guys some feedback based on what *I* experienced in russia

He wrote and shared a segment of what he experienced in Russia dealing with social and dating tendencies from a select age range, plus or minus - based on his experience and perspective...

It isn't difficult to ascertain, even if the OP met/dated/bedded 10/100/1000 women every single day for the entire 241 days that he can't possibly be speaking about the ENTIRE population of women to arrive to an accurate conclusion that ALL Russian women are " _____ ".

You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

+10!!!!!!

[OlgaH]

AB,

Just FYI, I think the average age of men here is around 40   

As stated before I do think your approach is quite ok for someone in your age bracket, but remember it's hard trying to teach old dogs new tricks....

LOL

LOL BC, I don't think the OP offers any approach  rather he shares his impression, observations, experience.

Do RW cheat? Yes they do. Do they lie about their marital status? Yes they do. Are they curious if a foreigner somehow is different in bed than a local guy? Yes, they are  All of them? Of course not. Do RW like nice young looking guys? Yes, they do  Is the young Russian generation too different from the West young generation? I don't think so

Personally, I did not see the OP's some general notes as some kind his general statements that automatically applied to all the Russian female population.

But in general the humor below can be easily addressed to the RWs as well 

 

[Eduard]

I do wish there were some reliable stats for infidelity percentages/ratios East vs West.  There is definitely a more pervasive promiscuous permissiveness there than here, for whatever reasons, but there sure are a hell of a lot of cheaters here as well.. So, perhaps the numbers are close to the same but the visibility differs.  Or, maybe there really is a difference.


Would be an extremely interesting topic if there were a reliable method to attain accurate stats.

Just from personal observations I think that the amount of cheating going on is probably about the same except men do get away with a lot more of it in Russia compared to American men, A lot of Russian women simply accept it as a given and learn to live with it.

[Gator]

In a nutshell AB went to Russia because he didn't have adequate health insurance?  Yet another reason to leave America and go to Russia.   

With Obamacare, does that mean Russians can come here?   
 
Maybe AB's medical treatment was elective?   AB should tell some of the interested men about it so they can go to Russia for the same, and while recuperating boink some dyevushkas and mamas.

[Gator]

Just from personal observations I think that the amount of cheating going on is probably about the same except men do get away with a lot more of it in Russia compared to American men, A lot of Russian women simply accept it as a given and learn to live with it.

Rather than accepting it, it seems likely that RW are participating.  It takes two to tango, so who is the other one, namely the cheating RM's partner?   
 
Do the math.  It must be much more than prostitutes and sponsored students.  The numbers don't add up correctly unless a high percentage of RW wives are also participating.   
 

[Gator]

You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Or elephants from fleas (or is it flies).
 
GQ, there are mole hills.  Then there are mole hills!

[mendeleyev]

With Obamacare, does that mean Russians can come here?

Give it a few years.
 
The Russians are moving to a market system somewhat like the USA had prior to Obamacare and estimate that they'll save billions. Purely socialized medicine will begin to disappear in 2015 and be completely gone by 2020 as part of the Medvedev/Putin "Strategy 2020" on economic modernization reforms.
 
Existing pensioners and war veterans will be given options to remain in the system or receive cash payments equal to the cost of health insurance. Able bodied Russians will receive tax credits to spend on health care and insurance as they wish.
 
     
 

[BC]

LOL BC, I don't think the OP offers any approach  rather he shares his impression, observations, experience.

Do RW cheat? Yes they do. Do they lie about their marital status? Yes they do. Are they curious if a foreigner somehow is different in bed than a local guy? Yes, they are  All of them? Of course not. Do RW like nice young looking guys? Yes, they do  Is the young Russian generation too different from the West young generation? I don't think so

Personally, I did not see the OP's some general notes as some kind his general statements that automatically applied to all the Russian female population.

But in general the humor below can be easily addressed to the RWs as well 

Olga,

In reality his approach is not that different than many successful men that have gone to FSU for other reasons than searching for a wife.

Among them you can find men like jb, myself and a number of others, IIRC even including Dan. 

If I understand correctly AB went to RU not looking for a wife but for medical treatment over a long period.  He met a few girls there.  Having spent a short week in an Italian hospital just a few weeks ago (nothing serious) I can say that this 'foreigner' had a lot of attention..  maybe just curiosity but enough to meet some interesting people including the other gender.

About cheating... I believe it correlates well with the divorce rate... so we're talking at least 50% regardless if in US or FSU.

[happyandstable]

        You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

    If it is making mole hills to point out the OP own words then we are all guilty of it. I for one do not see showing the OP that he is just as guilty as those he accuses is making mole hills, but to each their own.

[BC]

    If it is making mole hills to point out the OP own words then we are all guilty of it. I for one do not see showing the OP that he is just as guilty as those he accuses is making mole hills, but to each their own.

This is not a morality forum............

[Eduard]

Rather than accepting it, it seems likely that RW are participating.  It takes two to tango, so who is the other one, namely the cheating RM's partner?   
 
Do the math.  It must be much more than prostitutes and sponsored students.  The numbers don't add up correctly unless a high percentage of RW wives are also participating.

I've talked to many SINGLE RW who had relationships with married  men. The common complaint from them is that there are not enough men for every woman in Russia and they have to make a choice to either just be alone, date a real loser (i.e. alcoholic, abusive man, an idiot, a jerk, etc.) or date a married man even if they have to share him with another (or even several) woman. I personally know men who are married and also have a couple of girlfriends, and all women involved know about each other and accept the situation.

[Admin]

I've talked to many SINGLE RW who had relationships with married  men. The common complaint from them is that there are not enough men for every woman in Russia and they have to make a choice to either just be alone, date a real loser (i.e. alcoholic, abusive man, an idiot, a jerk, etc.) or date a married man even if they have to share him with another (or even several) woman. I personally know men who are married and also have a couple of girlfriends, and all women involved know about each other and accept the situation.

>>I personally know men who are married and also have a couple of girlfriends<<

And I personally know numerous married men in Ukraine who do NOT have girlfriends on the side. Several of them are quite successful and have plenty of opportunity but their integrity (and welfare of their families) is more important to them.

As Daveman pointed out upthread, the debate is based entirely on opinion unless someone can come up with credible studies to help provide context and reference points.

- Dan

[Eduard]

I think we all are just sharing our personal experience, including the OP. Note, I didn't say all married men have girlfriends on the side, I said that I personally know a couple.

[Eduard]

Actually, now that I think about it, I know a couple of married men in Ukraine with girlfriends on the side too ))

[Gator]

I personally know men who are married and also have a couple of girlfriends, and all women involved know about each other and accept the situation.

eduard I know that you have high intelligence in music, interpersonal skills, etc., yet math is not your thing. 
 
If what you described is true, most unmarried RW must be very busy with relationships with multiple married RM.   Why?  There are far more married RM (all ages) than single young RW.    So RM unknowingly are sharing girlfriends. 
 
Either that or RW wives are cheating too.  Or is it possible that RM do not cheat as much as the RW claim they do?   
 
I don't know the answer, but I can examine demographics and I can add.

[Admin]

I think we all are just sharing our personal experience, including the OP. Note, I didn't say all married men have girlfriends on the side, I said that I personally know a couple.

And . . . presumably you know some married RM who do not have girlfriends on the side - yes?

- Dan

[LiveFromUkraine]

The OP titled the thread:

I'll give you guys some feedback based on what *I* experienced in russia

He wrote and shared a segment of what he experienced in Russia dealing with social and dating tendencies from a select age range, plus or minus - based on his experience and perspective...

It isn't difficult to ascertain, even if the OP met/dated/bedded 10/100/1000 women every single day for the entire 241 days that he can't possibly be speaking about the ENTIRE population of women to arrive to an accurate conclusion that ALL Russian women are " _____ ".

You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This has been a fun thread to say the least.

AB comes here, shares his story and people say "no way that happened."

Chivo, who probably has the most time on the ground says, "I have seen stuff like that."

People are sad that it is possible.

Wait, since it could have happened lets attack the op's integrity.

Now, people say "You're a bad man because you cheated."

Other people say, "You are a kid (even at late 20's), time to grow up!"

Don't worry AB, those people aren't judging.  haha

I am looking forward to what else people will have to comment on.  If growing up means acting like some of the guys on this forum then I hope AB never grows up.

[AmericanBoy]

The thread has picked up momentum again . . . unfortunately in the wrong direction 

I'll try and respond to some of this madness later

[Muzh]

Oh boy, right on cue.
 
Russian Men Have Grown Up 
 
23 April 2012
By Alexei Bayer 

    At a banking conference in the mid-1990s, I had lunch with a Russian banker. In the course of an hour, I learned that he was married but had numerous affairs and one-night stands — not to mention prostitutes whom he liked better because of their "skills and lack of commitment."
"Russian women are the most beautiful in the world, and Russian men are the smartest," he declared.
 
"And what about Americans?" I asked disingenuously.
 
"Americans no longer have a sex drive. Their women are ugly and stuck-up. America is finished."
Indeed, few American bankers would proudly discuss extramarital affairs with a chance acquaintance or brag about hiring prostitutes. Recent scandals involving U.S. public figures and celebrities, and the grief they got for it, only go to show that such behavior is rather an aberration, not the norm.
 
But Russian biznesmeny cavorting with scantily clad beauties has long been a global cliche. Apparently, the numerous fancy boutiques in Moscow cater mainly to rich men's mistresses. Moscow prices are sky-high, but paying for their purchases there is still cheaper and less troublesome than taking them on shopping trips to Paris or London.
 
But while early post-Soviet stereotypes persist, the reality is changing. Russia's wealthy are beginning to develop interests that are similar to their Western counterparts, whereas middle-class men are becoming more interested in maintaining stable family relationships and raising kids. There are important social and economic forces that are coming into play.
 
The Soviet Union had a remarkably prudish, staid facade. Ironically for a society that had rejected bourgeois morality and traditions, the ideal Communist was a monogamous family man who was supposed to be interested in sex only inasmuch as it produced future defenders of the motherland and textile factory workers. Sex, we were told, was a vice of the decaying bourgeois West.
 
Under the surface, of course, sex was everywhere. Foreigners who knew Soviet society well were often amazed and scandalized by its loose morals. Marital infidelities were pervasive. A summer vacation, which many couples took separately, were considered a waste if it didn't result in a seaside romance. Even though most women worked and were equal before the law, they were seen as inferior. Their role was to look good, perform all of the home duties, and, in general, do what they were told.
 
There were plenty of explanations for this. First, communism rejected religion and the concept of sin. Second, wars and repressions took a heavy toll on men, so in many generations a large number of women could not find a partner. Third, crammed living quarters, with families sharing a single room or, at best, a tiny apartment, led to early, hasty marriages. Finally, since Communist propaganda dominated all aspects of life, there were few ideologically neutral, private activities outside the bedroom.
 
Writer Tatyana Tolstaya provided another explanation in her 1990 essay in the New York Review of Books. She pointed out that repressive regimes can tolerate a strong woman, but a strong man poses a real threat. The Soviet regime regularly eliminated men who could stand up to it, and the rest camouflaged themselves as "not real men." Interacting with the authorities, it was safer to seem a permanent adolescent or a clown.
 
Such a self-preservationist mechanism is typical of many oppressed groups. Irish men displayed this kind of behavior during British colonial rule, and African-American men presented a similar facade to whites. Males from oppressed groups often engage in adolescent behavior, including drinking too much and engaging in casual sex. The Soviet government, moreover, owned everything and paid its employees just enough to last from one payday to the next. Thus, Soviet men couldn't protect or provide for their families.
 
Soviet men, frightened and humiliated in public, took revenge in private. They became domestic tyrants at home and tried to assert their manhood in bed with as many partners as they could get. This, too, is a typical behavior pattern for oppressed groups.
 
Now, however, in post-Soviet Russia men have the opportunity to take responsibility for themselves and their families. They can make a decent living and control their own lives. They have become liberated, and their attitude to the family has changed. A "real man" is no longer embarrassed to shop, do housework and play with the kids. Having a strong family is now becoming more important than having a beautiful mistress. Achieving professional success and growing one's business is more interesting than hanging out with girls at a ski resort.
   Alexei Bayer, a native Muscovite, is a New York-based economist.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russian-men-have-grown-up/457279.html#ixzz1stYjkwHk

[mies]

The OP titled the thread:

I'll give you guys some feedback based on what *I* experienced in russia

He wrote and shared a segment of what he experienced in Russia dealing with social and dating tendencies from a select age range, plus or minus - based on his experience and perspective...

And just as yet, let us read 2nd and 3rd sentences in his opening post in this thread:
"Russian girls seem to not have very much loyalty.
I was in Russia most of this past year and girls were cheating on their husbands and boyfriends with me left and right, even girls who I would never expect it from... "

"Russian girls seem to have very much loyalty" - is in fact a generalization.

Let me give you an example. I know a Mexican who is a criminal. Maybe I know 2 or three Mexicans who spent some jail time. So I go to a forum where Mexican culture is discussed and post there a phrase "Mexican men seem to be doing much crime and spend time in jail left and right.

Or let me give you another example. I know an American who is a psycho. Maybe I know even 3 or 5 mentally unstable American men. So I come to the forum of Russian wives and post there "American men seem to be crazy and not on good terms with their brain. I spent nearly a year in USA and I know it for a fact."

Do you think any of these phrases will be offensive to women married to American or Mexican men? Do you think my phrases are generalizations or not? What would you think of a Russian woman who posted such revelation about American men?

[Shadow]

What is wrong with having a girlfriend ? My hafe can have 5 girlfriends, and I can not even have 1 ?

[happyandstable]

This is not a morality forum............

      Sense when was it moralistic to post MHO

[LiveFromUkraine]

And just as yet, let us read 2nd and 3rd sentences in his opening post in this thread:
"Russian girls seem to not have very much loyalty.
I was in Russia most of this past year and girls were cheating on their husbands and boyfriends with me left and right, even girls who I would never expect it from... "

"Russian girls seem to have very much loyalty" - is in fact a generalization.

Let me give you an example. I know a Mexican who is a criminal. Maybe I know 2 or three Mexicans who spent some jail time. So I go to a forum where Mexican culture is discussed and post there a phrase "Mexican men seem to be doing much crime and spend time in jail left and right.

Or let me give you another example. I know an American who is a psycho. Maybe I know even 3 or 5 mentally unstable American men. So I come to the forum of Russian wives and post there "American men seem to be crazy and not on good terms with their brain. I spent nearly a year in USA and I know it for a fact."

Do you think any of these phrases will be offensive to women married to American or Mexican men? Do you think my phrases are generalizations or not? What would you think of a Russian woman who posted such revelation about American men?

Mies, you have to remember the context of his post.  He is posting based on his experience.  Two people can go to the same country and experience radically different things.

I don't believe Russian women are any less loyal than American women.  I am not sure that is a good or bad thing.   

[Daveman]

Or let me give you another example. I know an American who is a psycho. Maybe I know even 3 or 5 mentally unstable American men. So I come to the forum of Russian wives and post there "American men seem to be crazy and not on good terms with their brain. I spent nearly a year in USA and I know it for a fact."

Count me in!! so that makes 4-6! 

Do you think any of these phrases will be offensive to women married to American or Mexican men? Do you think my phrases are generalizations or not? What would you think of a Russian woman who posted such revelation about American men?

No, they are not offensive.. the responsibility of "offensive" or "unoffensive yet perhaps ridiculous blathering" lies solely in the mind of the reader/listener.  Heck, RW talk nonsense about AM all the time, and even AM who think themselves somehow better than "the rest of us in the MoB scene" talk pure blathering bullshit sometimes.. is it offensive? not at all.. it is an opinion from one source, nothing more nor less.. and the crazy thing about it is that.. get ready for it... ALL opinions are valid!  Even the ones we don't personally care for... but, they are only offensive when we define them as such.


Are all RW cheaters?  Only a real, honest to god, goofwad of an idiot would have such an opinion (and again... the opinions of real, honest to god, goofwad idiots are valid!! just perhaps carry less credibility..  )

[Admin]

Count me in!! so that makes 4-6! 



No, they are not offensive.. the responsibility of "offensive" or "unoffensive yet perhaps ridiculous blathering" lies solely in the mind of the reader/listener.  Heck, RW talk nonsense about AM all the time, and even AM who think themselves somehow better than "the rest of us in the MoB scene" talk pure blathering bullshit sometimes.. is it offensive? not at all.. it is an opinion from one source, nothing more nor less.. and the crazy thing about it is that.. get ready for it... ALL opinions are valid!  Even the ones we don't personally care for... but, they are only offensive when we define them as such.


Are all RW cheaters?  Only a real, honest to god, goofwad of an idiot would have such an opinion (and again... the opinions of real, honest to god, goofwad idiots are valid!! just perhaps carry less credibility..  )

Now you've done it. A new acronym for the RWD Glossary:

GWI: GoofWad Idiot. One whose posts are far from credible due to their goofy and idiotic expression of opinion with lack of factual substance.

- Dan