How many trips?

[Jerry1337]

Okay, getting a little scared after seeing how many trips some of you guys have taken (no offense intended) and have to ask: when it says 4-10 trips, is that BEFORE you got married or include after marriage returns?

I know, I'm naive, but I was thinking maybe one or two trips total...maybe three.

[Manny]

I know, I'm naive, but I was thinking maybe one or two trips total...maybe three.

That tends not to be a recipe for success unless you are shopping for a new car rather than a wife.

If those trips were a month each in duration, perhaps. It takes time to get to know someone well enough to make marrying them a sensible choice.

[Patagonie]

My best friend, married with a FSU women, gave me the worst coach in my two firsts months in FSU : "go and ask her to come (visit) you in your country, and after ask her to take her belongings and you make documents".
As coaching it was one of the worst. The girl i invited finally don't come (i can now understand her) and i was off of 1000$, and have to return to FSU to see her.
So if you believe you would catch her at first trip (very lucky, but in general dangerous) and  will bring her back in three trips you believe in dreams (some did it because there are always exception but really : do you rely on lottery staying in the couch rather than to go to work ? No you cannot build your life on such expectation).
Myself i have made 11trips and in 20 days it will be my 9th trip in Ukraine.

[acctBill]

Jerry generally if the person is married you can assume that they're returning to the FSU with the wife to visit family every so often so it's difficult to know how many trips someone made prior to marriage.  The more face to face time you have with her the better the chances the both of you will know if you're marriage material. That's a simple fact.  This type of venture is costly not just in money but in time, it's definitely easier to date the girl next door.  Keep asking questions that's the only way you'll learn.

[AmericanBoy]

I agree, you're not shopping for a car here. These girls aren't that desperate to leave their country that you can pick and choose anyone you like to marry.

I suggested this in my thread, but if you have the chance I'd go over there and stay a couple months if possible. I was able to create some really strong bonds with girls who were never looking for me and I was never looking for them ( basically people that weren't in the search for love)

[The Natural]

Myself i have made 11trips and in 20 days it will be my 9th trip in Ukraine.

So you will go around May 10? Where will you go and how long time will you stay this time?

[Shadow]

It all depends on yourself and your preparation.
If you need to make some trips to understand the culture and get your expectations down to reality, you will need a lot more than 2 or 3.
If you manage to present yourself as you are, communicate with the women directly and use your head as well as your other parts in selecting it is possible.
Concerning FSU, the trip to take MrsShadow home was my 4th to the FSU.
1st trip to Ukraine, not a lost trip but found no common ground for future.
2nd trip to meet and greet Mrs Shadow.
3rd trip to spend some more time and check compatibility, also start up paperwork.
4th trip just to accompany her to my country.

So depending on how good you are in making the right selection you can do it.
But the trick is not to limit yourself, as the pressure of something needing to be successful will cloud your judgement and lead to the opposite.

[Patagonie]

So you will go around May 10? Where will you go and how long time will you stay this time?

Dear friend i will be from 12th to 28th in Dnep. I contact you by PM.

[Muzh]

It basically comes down to where you live.

If you have to travel for a minimum of 10 hours while paying at least $1000 I believe that will cut down the number of trips as oppose to say, a 3hr flight to the tune of 200 Euros. Not to mention that in NA, it is frowned upon taking vacation time, doesn't matter if it is a long holiday or (gasp!) 2 weeks, while Europe forces you to take at least a month.

So plan accordingly.

Now keep in mind that the Euros will be making fun of the North Americans constantly, no matter what, based on a sad reality for the NAs.

[Gylden]

Just to add a little variety. I made no trips to the FSU before getting married.
I made one trip to Ukraine five years after getting married.
Of course durring our courting period, my wife and I both made two trips to Poland and she visited me here three times for up to three months at a time before we got married.
 
I believe we are far from the normal experience.

[Patagonie]

It basically comes down to where you live.

If you have to travel for a minimum of 10 hours while paying at least $1000 I believe that will cut down the number of trips as oppose to say, a 3hr flight to the tune of 200 Euros. Not to mention that in NA, it is frowned upon taking vacation time, doesn't matter if it is a long holiday or (gasp!) 2 weeks, while Europe forces you to take at least a month.

So plan accordingly.

Now keep in mind that the Euros will be making fun of the North Americans constantly, no matter what, based on a sad reality for the NAs.

True we have a big advantage, but not sure that we can fly for 200 €. In average i am near 200 € per day all included. So, like every guy who has put his butt in a plane, this chase is not cheap !

[Muzh]

True we have a big advantage, but not sure that we can fly for 200 €. In average i am near 200 € per day all included. So, like every guy who has put his butt in a plane, this chase is not cheap !

I was referring to the air ticket but, you are right. This is not a cheap endeavor.

[Shadow]

Now keep in mind that the Euros will be making fun of the North Americans constantly, no matter what, based on a sad reality for the NAs.

I would never dream of making fun of the NA's 

[Vasilisa]

I've seen the case when a Canadian man came to the woman for the first time with all papers ready, they got married in 3 weeks' time, he went back and they started the process of getting a spousal visa.
She also got pregnant when he came, so she had a kid 9 months later, was still waiting for her visa, they are still happily married 3 years later, live in Canada now.

Another case-the guy came to the girl for the first time anf they also started the process of a fiancee visa to the US, in was in 2007, when she came she got pregnant almost right away and they got married.Still married as I know.

Another case: a 50 year-old guy has been travelling around the FSU for 15 years' time, never married, each visit meets 2-3 girls, "all girls are bad" and he is not sure if he is ready for such an important step in his life with any of them, so.... each case is unique I guess

[Chicagoguy]

It is indivdual. I made 15 trips but many of these were for business and friendship, not women. I was married at this time. But one good thing about this was I began to understand the people and the culture before I went looking for a wife.
As for wife now, I went once to meet her and two others. Next trip involved just my future wife and I on a trip to Turkey. I wanted to see what she was like "out of the water". And last trip was to meet her family after we were married.
I doubt if most of the searchers have the ability to live there for some time but that would be the ideal.

[mendeleyev]

Jerry,

In many cases the marriage "train wrecks" indicate that a couple that really didn't know each other that well. Most of us wouldn't marry a gal we dated at home for only a month but you'll see guys take 1 week or 3 weeks and suddenly they're "engaged" and planning for the visa applications. To a woman who may only barely speak his language, no less.

Get an estimate of what a good divorce attorney would cost, plus the cost of maintaining her court ordered living expenses the first year of separation. Divide that number by the average cost per trip (perhaps $3k to $5K?) and that is how many trips I would advise a man before taking the plunge.

Nobody will do that of course and so the train wrecks will continue. Even if someone did it is still no guarantee of success but a better plan than the alternative.

BTW, I salute those men who've been successful with less, but when you're dealing with language and cultural differences, you can't spend enough time. As I always say (cause it is true) Skype and emails don't count as "face time" even in the modern age of video teleconferencing. You really don't know someone until you've spent long hours stuck in traffic, until you've watched them interact with extended family when everyone is tired, babies are crying and Uncle Vanya is drunk. Any gal, or guy for that matter, can put on their "game face" for the two weeks you're in town or when it is time for the Skype call. Being WITH someone as LIFE happens is so much more revealing when to comes to bottom line character.

Use common sense as if you were dating at home. A woman who rushes you may have a hidden agenda so move at your own pace.


(Above bolded so that I can refer back to it once the whailing, gnashing of teeth and public floggings have begun.) 
 

[TheTraveler]

I'm going to plead the fifth on this question!  Ha!

[Eduard]

I think that a lot depends on how well do you get to know each other via letters and skype/phone chats prior and during your first visit. And if things work out, continuation of good, language barrier free communication between the visits is also very important. I personally made only 2 visits to meet with my wife. I think that the first time I spent about 10 days with her and the second time I think it was about 3 weeks. This was more than 8 years ago so can't remember exactly but that's close enough to give you an idea. But we did spend a lot of time writing letters to each other, chatting on MSN messenger (there was no Skype yet  ) and talking on the phone sometimes for hours. If the communication between you two is good and you understand each other a 100% of the time 2 or 3 visits may be just fine. Most of my former clients only went once or twice after going with me the first time. All are happily married or waiting for visas to get married. Communication and you really understanding who she is and her really understanding who you are is the key IMO. Reading these forums I realised that too many people marry some one they really don't know at all because of the language barrier and cultural differences. Figure out the way to bridge these two gaps and you will have a much higher chance at success.

[tfcrew]

How many trips?

Through the years I have noticed that [though at least one personal visit is mandatory] most or at least many guys send  [not take] their intended to the visa interview.

This 'send for' process lends to the flavor of 'mail order' to me.

Then they stand by for the arrival at their respective airport flowers in hand if all goes well.

Examine the passport and you may not see as many trips as claimed [in these cases]

In my case, I attended the interview in Warsaw w/my wife back when that is where Ukrainians were processed.

Don't be 'scared'...faint heart ne'r won fair maiden.

[Shadow]

Skype was released in August 2003... but SkypeOut (using it to call landlines) was a lot later. But today much better options exist with VOIP, including the possibility to get a phone number in Moscow or Kiev, meaning your contacts can call you at the expense of a local mobile call.

[Eduard]

Skype was released in August 2003... but SkypeOut (using it to call landlines) was a lot later. But today much better options exist with VOIP, including the possibility to get a phone number in Moscow or Kiev, meaning your contacts can call you at the expense of a local mobile call.

you maybe correct, however I wasn't aware of it at that time. ICQ and MSN messanger was what most Russians used at the time in my experience.

[Shadow]

you maybe correct, however I wasn't aware of it at that time. ICQ and MSN messanger was what most Russians used at the time in my experience.

I agree there. Interesting that the inventors of ICQ and Skype managed twice to launch a new concept and sell it for a high amount. Wonder what they will manage to come up with next, and I think it will sure be something to adopt early.

[Spoon]

I think that a lot depends on how well do you get to know each other via letters and skype/phone chats prior and during your first visit. And if things work out, continuation of good, language barrier free communication between the visits is also very important. I personally made only 2 visits to meet with my wife. I think that the first time I spent about 10 days with her and the second time I think it was about 3 weeks. This was more than 8 years ago so can't remember exactly but that's close enough to give you an idea. But we did spend a lot of time writing letters to each other, chatting on MSN messenger (there was no Skype yet  ) and talking on the phone sometimes for hours. If the communication between you two is good and you understand each other a 100% of the time 2 or 3 visits may be just fine. Most of my former clients only went once or twice after going with me the first time. All are happily married or waiting for visas to get married. Communication and you really understanding who she is and her really understanding who you are is the key IMO. Reading these forums I realised that too many people marry some one they really don't know at all because of the language barrier and cultural differences. Figure out the way to bridge these two gaps and you will have a much higher chance at success.

+1

I think communication is the key, I too only made two visits and my wife made one trip here to Australia (tourist visa), but we had many months of 'quality & understood' conversations, due to my wife being a fluent English speaker.

If I had met someone who perhaps was not so skilled in English, and communication was slower, then I imagine I would have made more trips (or longer trips) before total commitment.

[XMan]

So depending on how good you are in making the right selection you can do it.
But the trick is not to limit yourself, as the pressure of something needing to be successful will cloud your judgement and lead to the opposite.

+1