Russia is HELL! Women are desperate to get out!

[Eduard]

I can't say about Russia, however more and more chats I have with Ukrianin women lately are mentioning how difficult it is to find jobs.  Several of them also have indicated that their college educated sons are unable to find work in any field.

Seems contrary to the stats the Ukriane goverment is putting out about their economy.

do you actually believe in any government's statistics?

[noelscot]

Sure, let me offer up an appetizer...

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Russia/United-States

Wow. The crime rates are staggering.

[OlgaH]

Wow. The crime rates are staggering.

I would not be surprised, there is lot of crimes go unreported in Russia. Plus Russian Police tend to show its official reports in better "condition" that the reality 
 

DEFINITION:

Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

[/t] 

SOURCE:

The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002) (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

[noelscot]

I would not be surprised, there is lot of crimes go unreported in Russia. Plus Russian Police tend to show its official reports in better "condition" that the reality 
 

DEFINITION:

Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

[/t] 

SOURCE:

The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002) (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

Domestic violence, especially, is under-reported, I have read.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/02/domestic-violence-pervades-russian-homes.html


However, I'd say that the FSU, at least what I saw in Ukraine, made me feel a lot safer than many American cities I have visited. For example, Chicago is about as bad as depicted in the film, Brat 2. 

[OlgaH]

Noelscot, the difference only is the amout of iron doors and bars on the windows  when I see the bars on the windows in Florida's counties I know that is not a good district.

[Boethius]

I can't say about Russia, however more and more chats I have with Ukrianin women lately are mentioning how difficult it is to find jobs.  Several of them also have indicated that their college educated sons are unable to find work in any field.

Seems contrary to the stats the Ukriane goverment is putting out about their economy.

Not really.

The Ukrainian economy is, in fact, growing, because of specific industries - steel, coal, fertilizers, and agriculture.  The rest of the economy is mostly a mess.

Part of the problem is those with education left during the Yushchenko years, when economic growth consisted largely of real estate inflation, based on crooked politicians reselling the same properties.  Factories were closed, and the educated left, for the West or, more commonly, Russia.  Now, Ukraine could reopen, for example, tire factories.  There are workers.  But the "brains" that ensured the factory could operate are gone, and they're not coming back.

[newjason]

I thought this was Russian Women Discussion Forum



Not Russian Women Bitching Forum

I think those who distinguish a difference  between the two, have yet to comprehend the inner workings of the female mind.

[TheTraveler]

Sure, let me offer up an appetizer...

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Russia/United-States

usa with over triple the per-capita gdp... wow!

thanks, gq.

[Vasilisa]

more and more chats I have with Ukrianin women lately are mentioning how difficult it is to find jobs.  Several of them also have indicated that their college educated sons are unable to find work in any field.

Year, I'd believe the part about they can't find work in their specialties' fields, but not in any field, especial for men: sales representatives, trade managers, merchandisers for example are always in high demand and quite well  paid even if you have a high school diploma only.
If not go to Russia there is a lot of work like that there.

Which makes me think this whining makes a good  explanation why Calmissile will be the one who will buy the ticket to the lady as neither she nor her sons have jobs and help the sons who can't find any jobs financially.

[Boethius]

Year, I'd believe the part about they can't find work in their specialties' fields, but not in any field, especial for men: sales representatives, trade managers, merchandisers for example are always in high demand and quite well  paid even if you have a high school diploma only.If not go to Russia there is a lot of work like that there.

Not so in Ukraine (which is where the women cal is communicating with live), depending on where you are.
 
I was there in late March, and was told repeatedly there are no jobs.

[Vasilisa]

Not so in Ukraine (which is where the women cal is communicating with live), depending on where you are.
 
I was there in late March, and was told repeatedly there are no jobs.

So, where have you been?
I have plenty of examples when people who lived in small towns found a well-paid job.
For example my friend 33 yo, single,never married, very slim: lived with her parents and a younger brother in their small private house in the country suburbs of a big city. A poor family, both kids went to vocational schools, the girl became a librarian, worked for a couple of years, the salary was miserable. But she is very optimistic and sociable, started looking for a job, finally found one as a trade manager, now her salary is around 2 thousands of dollars which is actually good for that place where she lives, she rents an apartment in downtown, got a car last year,her brother works as a taxi driver, some of her friends still work as librarians and keep complaining how miserable their life is.

Unfortunately the girl is sill single, sometimes I look at her pictures and think :if you were here, in the US, you would be REALLY popular: a classy lady: an eye candy, well dressed ( see Kate Middleton's recent style), good manners, after she got a better job she went to university and got a higher education, a great sense of humour.
I offered her to come, she just laughs, she doesn't want to go anywhere.

[Boethius]

Kyiv, but I also had relatives visit me from Western Ukraine.

[Vasilisa]

Kyiv, but I also had relatives visit me from Western Ukraine.

Guys, are you kidding or what?!
If the girl who lives in Kyiv tells you she can't find any job at all she just wants you to help her financially or is a professional bride.
It's a well-known trick. As soon as the guy knows the girl has a well-paid job he may have questions why she doesn't finance her trips , tickets, etc.herself

[Boethius]

OK, see your revised post.
 
The point is not what great jobs some people have.  The point is there is a lot of unemployment in Ukraine.  It is all anecdotal, of course, but I heard, and saw it, quite a bit.
 
Now, according to Ukraine's government statistics, unemployment has decreased over 6% since December 2011.
 
I didn't go to Kyiv to meet women, Vasilisa.  I went to Kyiv with my husband and children to visit family (my husband's family, to be more precise).  I was staying not in a hotel, but in an apartment in an average working class Kyiv neighbourhood.  I also had my family, from Western Ukraine, come and visit us. 
 
I am fairly certain none of them were looking for my financial help or marriage.
 
As I posted elsewhere, some industries in Ukraine are doing very well, and regions which are related to those industries are also doing well.
 

[Vasilisa]

OK, see your revised post.
 
The point is not what great jobs some people have.  The point is there is a lot of unemployment in Ukraine.  It is all anecdotal, of course, but I heard, and saw it, quite a bit.
 
Now, according to Ukraine's government statistics, unemployment has decreased over 6% since December 2011.
 
I didn't go to Kyiv to meet women, Vasilisa.  I went to Kyiv with my husband and children to visit family (my husband's family, to be more precise).  I was staying not in a hotel, but in an apartment in an average working class Kyiv neighbourhood.  I also had my family, from Western Ukraine, come and visit us. 
 
I am fairly certain none of them were looking for my financial help or marriage.
 
As I posted elsewhere, some industries in Ukraine are doing very well, and regions which are related to those industries are also doing well.

There must have been  some mysterious financial disaster that struck Ukraine recenly.
But otherwise, wasn't that the American way of thinking:don't expect a lot from the government, manage your own life, it has always been that way and it is now: in the same place there are always people who complain and there are always people who do something about it

[Boethius]

There must have been  some mysterious financial disaster that struck Ukraine recenly.

Only if you are naive enough to believe the propaganda.
 
Why do you think Ukraine's population is declining?  Why do you think millions work abroad illegally, where they have no rights and are abused?  Muzh touched on this last year.
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13616.msg270050#msg270050
 
When 3/4 of your population lives in poverty, you don't have much chance.
 

But otherwise, wasn't that the American way of thinking:don't expect a lot from the government, manage your own life, it has always been that way and it is now: in the same place there are always people who complain and there are always people who do something about it

Are you seriously comparing the U.S., which has a rule of law, with Ukraine, where its citizens are routinely subjected to abuse at every course?

[Vasilisa]

 
Are you seriously comparing the U.S., which has a rule of law, with Ukraine, where its citizens are routinely subjected to abuse at every course?

Yes, why not, I am the example,  I have a lot of friends who do well in Russia and Ukraine without rich parent as well.

[Vasilisa]

I've never wanted to leave Russia, it happened because my husband wasn't from there and didn't have such a well paid job there as he does in the US, Iam trying to see positive sides everywhere and if life brought me here why not to get a better education and find a decent husband in the place that has more decent guys?

[Boethius]

"Plenty" is not the majority.
 
There are Kyiyanins who had their apartments "stolen" from them in exchange for less valuable properties under the former mayor's leadership.  No successful business can function without paying the proper kickbacks.  The former president built a priceless art collection by stealing artifacts from museums and churches.  Judges can mostly be bribed.    I could go on and on and on.
 
Some of these things, of course happen in the U.S., because human nature is human nature.  But, they are not routine, and are punished.  Not so in Ukraine, and that is indefensible.

[Vasilisa]

I have no idea what kind of propaganda you are talking about.
I watch both American and Russian news channels, I have nice life both here and had there in Russia, I had a lower salary in Russia, that's true, I wasn't that popoular among men in Russia also, but I didn't suffer, didn't starve, had a job, had a social life.
This is a picture of my friends recently married (please, don't copy), do they look like they are a suffering couple from a third world country, large age difference or something?!

[Boethius]

Russia is not Ukraine.

[Vasilisa]

This is their picture with their friends. Ordinary people.

[Boethius]

Your photos don't negate the reality of how most people live, though.
 
My husband has a relative who owns a whole city block in Ukraine, and a sanitorium in the Crimea.  We had a friend who started Foxtrot, one of the biggest retailers in Ukraine.  He hosted the sushi dinner Yushchenko was allegedly "poisoned" at.  He died at the police station, after being questioned during the Yushchenko years, about that dinner. (He had, unfortunately, stated in an interview that everyone at that dinner ate the same food).  He was not the first to attend that dinner to die prematurely, BTW.  Should I post their stories, and their opulent wealth, as examples of how Ukrainians truly live?
 
The reality is, there is not much of a middle class, and the majority of Ukrainians do live in poverty.  It is through no fault of their own, they have had nothing but corrupt leaders.
 
The latest poll from Ukraine had something like 3/4 of those under 30 expressing a desire to emigrate and "never return" (unusual, BTW), and about 50% for those between 30 and 40 something (can't recall offhand).  These are not the results of a country filled with happy and productive people.
 
I happen to be an ethnic Ukrainian.  It gives me no pleasure to report these things.
 
 

[Vasilisa]

There are rich people and poor people everywhere. You don't have to tell me that.
 
I consider myself belonging to a middle-class of Russians, the people whose pictures I posted isn't the upper class either. Middle class Russians living in a small condo. The pictures are fairly recent, the main reason why they are posted.
Here I've been told that young people don't like FSU leaders, for example Putin, escape abroad, don't marry Russian men as most of them are alcoholics, and age difference is highly tolerated.
I can't see any desperation to get out in their eyes, can't see alcoholics' faces, can't see big age difference,where is it? I could post a lot of pictures like that.

[Boethius]

Here I've been told that young people don't like FSU leaders, for example Putin,
escape abroad, don't marry Russian men as most of them are alcoholics, and age
difference is highly tolerated.

I'm not saying any of those things.  Nor did I post anything about desperation.  My point was about the economic situation in Ukraine today.