Serious age difference.

[Turboguy]

37.5 - that makes your the CHAMPION.

I know you have been EXCEEDINGLY forthcoming - back in the day.  Has your age gap bed a "walk in the park"?   What would you say to a guy like me?  Gracias ...

A walk on the park, a stroll down primrose lane,  Any words you eant to use to describe wonderful.  We have neen married now for 4 1/2 years and it has been great.  I haven't noticed the age differece cause even the smallest problem.

[GQBlues]

Bottom line is, if it wasn't for 'age gaps', the faces of the MOB directly correlates to the ages of its participants. Women will appropriately match it's male pursuers. Based on the typical age of males in the MOB, this will be the woman he'll typically pursue...

...and who will seriously sit in front of their computers for hours and months on in scanning dating websites for these ladies? Who would fly halfway across the globe for these ladies?

The airline companies know it, the apartment owners know it, the hotel chains know, the duty free shops know it, Viagra folks know it, the flower shop and nurseries know it, more importantly, PUTIN knows it...It's a conspiracy of the greedy, folks. They do not want an age appropriate marriages.

[ML]

I bet she can make some knock out meals!

[BC]

A walk on the park, a stroll down primrose lane,  Any words you eant to use to describe wonderful.  We have neen married now for 4 1/2 years and it has been great.  I haven't noticed the age differece cause even the smallest problem.

Turbo,

be honest...  how many years and how many bucks did it take to get from your first interest in RW to where you are today?

IIRC you searched for a needle in a haystack, got stuck at least a couple of times then found VW...

I would not classify that as a walk in the park..

[Patagonie]

This impeccable white shirt makes all the difference. 

[Turboguy]

Turbo,

be honest...  how many years and how many bucks did it take to get from your first interest in RW to where you are today?

I would not classify that as a walk in the park..

When I refered to "a walk in the park" I was refering to my marriage and not my search.  VWRW is the most wonderful woman I have met in my life and I am totally happy in my marriage.  From anything she has ever told me or that I have ever observed she is as happy as I am.   Marriage to her is like a never ending honeymoon.
I would not classify my search as a "walk in the park" but I don't know that I can tie that into "age gap"  When I made my first trip ever to the FSU I was 53 years old.  Of the women I met on my first trip one was 36 and another was 35.  That is not exactly a jaw dropping age gap.  They were actually quite a bit older than some of the women I had receintly dated in the USA at the time.  Although my search was long and expensive it was also an amazing adventure that I am glad I had a chance to enjoy.
 

[Anotherkiwi]

When I refered to "a walk in the park" I was refering to my marriage and not my search.  VWRW is the most wonderful woman I have met in my life and I am totally happy in my marriage.  From anything she has ever told me or that I have ever observed she is as happy as I am.   Marriage to her is like a never ending honeymoon.

I'm seriously happy for both of you, and hope that I can find someone just as special!
 
Now, just to even up the playing field...she posted a portrait of you, so how about letting us see more of her than just a tiny avatar? 

[timinua]

I have an 18-year age difference with my wife, and we just had a baby. We've been married three years, but, in all fairness, we did live together 3 years before tying the knot (definitely NOT her idea ).

Most of my wife's girlfriends are married to older guys. Almost all of them (the wife included) come from families with businesses and incomes that are larger than the typical foreign tourist's. So it's not money. These girls prefer the stability of someone who has figured out their life.

All of my Ukrainian (male) friends in their late 30s/40s who are divorced and remarried, have remarried girls in their 20s (I can think of about 7 off hand).

My point is that large age differences are not uncommon among the upper-middle class here in Ukraine. But, of course, it is not a fair comparison between guys who live over here and know all the angles and foreigners who have 7-10 days to make a decision.

And, interestingly, the guys who did marry significantly younger women didn't marry the supermodel type. They'll have them as mistresses, but they won't marry them.

Food for thought...

[Patagonie]

I have an 18-year age difference with my wife, and we just had a baby. We've been married three years, but, in all fairness, we did live together 3 years before tying the knot (definitely NOT her idea ).

Most of my wife's girlfriends are married to older guys. Almost all of them (the wife included) come from families with businesses and incomes that are larger than the typical foreign tourist's. So it's not money. These girls prefer the stability of someone who has figured out their life.

All of my Ukrainian (male) friends in their late 30s/40s who are divorced and remarried, have remarried girls in their 20s (I can think of about 7 off hand).

My point is that large age differences are not uncommon among the upper-middle class here in Ukraine. But, of course, it is not a fair comparison between guys who live over here and know all the angles and foreigners who have 7-10 days to make a decision.

And, interestingly, the guys who did marry significantly younger women didn't marry the supermodel type. They'll have them as mistresses, but they won't marry them.

Food for thought...

Interesting post.
But in my opinion if you and yours wifeys come from business and incomes are larger than the typical foreign tourists it means that you are in the rich ukrainian class. There is no upper middle class in Ukraine who earns more than the typical western tourist.
To give you a clue US guys who are coming usually earn between 5000 and 7000 bucks per month (don't ask me worth or brutto i don't know, this information comes from a professional interpreter largely invovlved with strangers, and it fits with others informations i have gathered).
So if you earn more than this type of tourist it is possibly good to realize that you are probably on the top : from 10 to 1% of earners.

[vwrw]

 so how about letting us see more of her than just a tiny avatar? 

Why do you want to see more of me? Do you doubt my attractiveness? 
Well i confirm timinua's observation - i am not a modal type. My facial features deviate form the beauty standards and i am not a skinny worm without curves; nevertheless, i am very attractive!
I may post a picture or two after you post a few pics of yourself

[vwrw]

And, interestingly, the guys who did marry significantly younger women didn't marry the supermodel type. They'll have them as mistresses, but they won't marry them.

I had a 10 years chance to observe "mating" of guys with money. And my findings agree with yours. They usually marry younger girls of not supermodel types. The explanation is easy....skinny, pretty girls who can poise themselves  are abound in FSU, and thus easily replaceable. The girls who can offer a lot beyond the observable qualities of supermodel are not so easy to find. They can keep a man attention for a long time, developing a bond or fondness.  That is not to say that the majority of "models" are bad or something of the sort, no, but they often do not have a lot to offer after the sense of novelty fades and a man gets used to their physical attributes.  So guys quickly get bored with them despite the oh so promising start of their relationships. The "modals" that have inner substance often are left alone as they age and it is mystery for me to understand why. I know a few women of supermodel qualities with appeal who are not chased after [size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size]

[Daveman]

I had a 10 years chance to observe "mating" of guys with money. And my findings agree with yours. They usually marry younger girls of not supermodel types. The explanation is easy....skinny, pretty girls who can poise themselves  are abound in FSU, and thus easily replaceable. The girls who can offer a lot beyond the observable qualities of supermodel are not so easy to find. They can keep a man attention for a long time, developing a bond or fondness.  That is not to say that the majority of "models" are bad or something of the sort, no, but they often do not have a lot to offer after the sense of novelty fades and a man gets used to their physical attributes.  So guys quickly get bored with them despite the oh so promising start of their relationships. The "modals" that have inner substance often are left alone as they age and it is mystery for me to understand why. I know a few women of supermodel qualities with appeal who are not chased after  

Excellent post. 


>>The "modals" that have inner substance often are left alone as they age and it is mystery for me to understand why. I know a few women of supermodel qualities with appeal who are not chased after<<


I think one reason is that when you wake up beside a 'super model type' she scares the bejeezus outta ya.     They actually tend to be bland and rather ugly for the most part.  And there is a reason for that.  The main quality which gives them 'super model' quality is their inherent malleability similar to a blank canvas.  They can be painted into virtually any look desired but don't have much naturally. 


Naturally beautiful women tend to have a limited range of "looks" because their canvas, to a much larger degree, already has been painted.  Just part of my unexplored theory (subject to change without notice) as to why I find most popular Magazine Cover Models a little (cough) less than attractive in a natural, non painted setting.

[Faux Pas]

I had a 10 years chance to observe "mating" of guys with money. And my findings agree with yours. They usually marry younger girls of not supermodel types. The explanation is easy....skinny, pretty girls who can poise themselves  are abound in FSU, and thus easily replaceable. The girls who can offer a lot beyond the observable qualities of supermodel are not so easy to find. They can keep a man attention for a long time, developing a bond or fondness.  That is not to say that the majority of "models" are bad or something of the sort, no, but they often do not have a lot to offer after the sense of novelty fades and a man gets used to their physical attributes.  So guys quickly get bored with them despite the oh so promising start of their relationships. The "modals" that have inner substance often are left alone as they age and it is mystery for me to understand why. I know a few women of supermodel qualities with appeal who are not chased after [size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size]

Just an observation and my humble opinion, such model women with inner substance do not generally attempt to mold and control a man with her looks or sex. Lesser quality women will and because of this men will flock to them. Unfortunately, for such women few are the men who do not think with their penis. 

I know several RW personally some who have dabbled in the MOB with no success yet are truly great women on the inside and extremely attractive. Attractiveness and great looks are a very cheap commodity in Russia and inner qualities are easy to find for those that look.

[timinua]

There is no upper middle class in Ukraine who earns more than the typical western tourist.
To give you a clue US guys who are coming usually earn between 5000 and 7000 bucks per month (don't ask me worth or brutto i don't know, this information comes from a professional interpreter largely invovlved with strangers, and it fits with others informations i have gathered).
So if you earn more than this type of tourist it is possibly good to realize that you are probably on the top : from 10 to 1% of earners.

Between business partners, friends, and family, I can count at least 20 Ukrainians that I personally know who make between 100-150K (USD) a year (cash in hand). These people own medium size farms, restaurants, import businesses, and two are involved with offshore transactions. These are the people I know for sure. If I include friends of friends and my wife's friends' husbands (and speculate), then the number would be a lot greater.

These people are not rich. They drive Subarus and BMWs, live in 200-300m2 houses, and go on package holidays to Turkey. Rich is Akmetov, Firtash, and the Yanukovich Family. Granted the people I am referring to probably fall in the top 10% of earners, but the divide between them and the rich (0.5% of earners) is enormous.

PS. the average salary for a manager in Kyiv is about 5,000USD

[timinua]

I had a 10 years chance to observe "mating" of guys with money. And my findings agree with yours. They usually marry younger girls of not supermodel types. The explanation is easy....skinny, pretty girls who can poise themselves  are abound in FSU, and thus easily replaceable. The girls who can offer a lot beyond the observable qualities of supermodel are not so easy to find. They can keep a man attention for a long time, developing a bond or fondness.  That is not to say that the majority of "models" are bad or something of the sort, no, but they often do not have a lot to offer after the sense of novelty fades and a man gets used to their physical attributes.  So guys quickly get bored with them despite the oh so promising start of their relationships. The "modals" that have inner substance often are left alone as they age and it is mystery for me to understand why. I know a few women of supermodel qualities with appeal who are not chased after [size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size][size=78%] [/size]

Outstanding post.

My wife is also not a supermodel (she will be the first to admit it), but she is very attractive. More importantly, she's interesting, kind, loving, and we share the same goals and most of the same ideals. She also has a great sense of humor.

Definitely one in a million. Definitely a "keeper."

[Patagonie]

Between business partners, friends, and family, I can count at least 20 Ukrainians that I personally know who make between 100-150K (USD) a year (cash in hand). These people own medium size farms, restaurants, import businesses, and two are involved with offshore transactions. These are the people I know for sure. If I include friends of friends and my wife's friends' husbands (and speculate), then the number would be a lot greater.

These people are not rich. They drive Subarus and BMWs, live in 200-300m2 houses, and go on package holidays to Turkey. Rich is Akmetov, Firtash, and the Yanukovich Family. Granted the people I am referring to probably fall in the top 10% of earners, but the divide between them and the rich (0.5% of earners) is enormous.

PS. the average salary for a manager in Kyiv is about 5,000USD

I have a theory about people, it is a circle theory, they meet one or two circles below or above, but rarely meet the others circles.
Almost half girls in their profiles in Ukraine specifies that they are managers.
90 % of the girls i have met were in the average income in ukraine : 300/400 $ per month, which is comfirmed by many statistics. Few i have met were perhaps between 1000 and 2000 $, but very few.
I think you have to replace rich by super rich. For many, many ukrainians you are rich.
I really like Ukraine, but i think it is important to know where you are in a society, and to know it for each society.

[Slumba]

I have a theory about people, it is a circle theory, they meet one or two circles below or above, but rarely meet the others circles.
Almost half girls in their profiles in Ukraine specifies that they are managers.
90 % of the girls i have met were in the average income in ukraine : 300/400 $ per month, which is comfirmed by many statistics. Few i have met were perhaps between 1000 and 2000 $, but very few.
I think you have to replace rich by super rich. For many, many ukrainians you are rich.
I really like Ukraine, but i think it is important to know where you are in a society, and to know it for each society.

Very deep, AND, very important point!

Yes, people in a particular class are only aware, most of the time, of the class above and the class below them (whether you are talking about intelligence, money, etc.).  Rare are the people who can identify many many classes and distinctions in society. 

Something a man should understand before he marries someone - where does she fit in?  This will drive her perceptions and her expectations...

[timinua]

I have a theory about people, it is a circle theory, they meet one or two circles below or above, but rarely meet the others circles.
Almost half girls in their profiles in Ukraine specifies that they are managers.
90 % of the girls i have met were in the average income in ukraine : 300/400 $ per month, which is comfirmed by many statistics. Few i have met were perhaps between 1000 and 2000 $, but very few.
I think you have to replace rich by super rich. For many, many ukrainians you are rich.
I really like Ukraine, but i think it is important to know where you are in a society, and to know it for each society.

Not to be argumentative, but you might also be guilty of the circle theory, having seemingly met mostly girls on marriage sites who earn about $400 a month. 

I have lived here for 8 years, and I have seen it all. I have taught (volunteered) at the poorest village schools and I have taught rich (truly rich) kids whose parents are plonking down $50,000 a year for university in the US. My neighborhood is the typical mixture of gaudy pink mansions and dilapidated shacks. I shop on the market and have to step over bums sleeping it off on the pavement, and I go to birthday parties where they serve lobster (OK, once). I understand it all very well. Most Ukrainians are poor. And "rich" is a subjective concept. But there are semi-objective definitions of socioeconomic levels.

One  topic we cover in one of my upper level classes is social class (in the US, the UK, and Ukraine). In one such discussion, one of my students, the assistant director of the VIP section of Kherson's branch of PrivatBank, did a presentation on socioeconomic levels. PrivatBank considers 2,000 USD a month to be the beginning of the middle class and 8,000 USD a month to be the beginning of the upper middle class, dividing lines that are very close to that of the government's categories.

[Patagonie]

Not to be argumentative, but you might also be guilty of the circle theory, having seemingly met mostly girls on marriage sites who earn about $400 a month. 

I have lived here for 8 years, and I have seen it all. I have taught (volunteered) at the poorest village schools and I have taught rich (truly rich) kids whose parents are plonking down $50,000 a year for university in the US. My neighborhood is the typical mixture of gaudy pink mansions and dilapidated shacks. I shop on the market and have to step over bums sleeping it off on the pavement, and I go to birthday parties where they serve lobster (OK, once). I understand it all very well. Most Ukrainians are poor. And "rich" is a subjective concept. But there are semi-objective definitions of socioeconomic levels.

One  topic we cover in one of my upper level classes is social class (in the US, the UK, and Ukraine). In one such discussion, one of my students, the assistant director of the VIP section of Kherson's branch of PrivatBank, did a presentation on socioeconomic levels. PrivatBank considers 2,000 USD a month to be the beginning of the middle class and 8,000 USD a month to be the beginning of the upper middle class, dividing lines that are very close to that of the government's categories.

I have a friend who worked for private bank 20 years ago, he was in charge of "rich customers", not the standard ones.  The treshold was exactly 2900 $ of wage. If you multiply by two to take in account the twenty years of difference you get 6000 $ of worth income.
 Privatbank can make any plan on the earth in accordance with their dreams, but by definition a middle class is the mass gravity of a society, which means that the largest population belong to a middle class. this type of parameters 2000/8000 in fact don't even fit for a country like France because the last 10 % more wealthy earns at least 4000 $ as single and probably from 5500 $ as household. The typical middle french class would be, for single people, between  2000 $ and 4000 $ and it gather at least 50 % of singles (probably more).
So with the criteria of Privat Bank, we are already not matching the french society for a middle class, so with the Ukrainian society the Privat Bank are ludicrous, this middlle class don't even reprensent more than maximum 10 % and so it cannot be a middle class by definition.
I think 80 % of the Ukrainian people earn less than 1000 $, 10 % can be considered as middle class from 1000 to 2500$ and, the rest concentrate the wealth and earn above.

[timinua]

I have a friend who worked for private bank 20 years ago, he was in charge of "rich customers", not the standard ones.  The treshold was exactly 2900 $ of wage. If you multiply by two to take in account the twenty years of difference you get 6000 $ of worth income.
 Privatbank can make any plan on the earth in accordance with their dreams, but by definition a middle class is the mass gravity of a society, which means that the largest population belong to a middle class. this type of parameters 2000/8000 in fact don't even fit for a country like France because the last 10 % more wealthy earns at least 4000 $ as single and probably from 5500 $ as household. The typical middle french class would be, for single people, between  2000 $ and 4000 $ and it gather at least 50 % of singles (probably more).
So with the criteria of Privat Bank, we are already not matching the french society for a middle class, so with the Ukrainian society the Privat Bank are ludicrous, this middlle class don't even reprensent more than maximum 10 % and so it cannot be a middle class by definition.
I think 80 % of the Ukrainian people earn less than 1000 $, 10 % can be considered as middle class from 1000 to 2500$ and, the rest concentrate the wealth and earn above.

Which definition of middle class are you going with? mass gravity or 10%?

By the way, Ukraine's (compounded) inflation rate has been 350% since 1999, and that doesn't include the hyperinflation from 1993 to 1997 (1996's inflation rate was 80% alone), so I'm not sure if doubling a 20 year-old number works in this case.

Anecdotally, you could buy a flat on Kreshatik for less than 2900USD in 1992, so, yes, the ability to buy a flat on Kreshatik every month is quite rich.

[Boethius]

the average salary for a manager in Kyiv is about 5,000USD

The average salary for a financial sector worker on Wall Street is $400,000.  That doesn't mean it's representative of the life of the average worker in the US.

[CanadaMan]

The average salary for a financial sector worker on Wall Street is $400,000.  That doesn't mean it's representative of the life of the average worker in the US.

Good point.
But at the same time, Tim might simply have been trying to let people know what the wage of a Kiev manager is, to compare to their own country's managers.

[Boethius]

There can't be many too many Kyianins making US$5,000 a month, looking at per capita GDP alone, even taking into account non reported income.

[BillyB]

I am corresponding with a wonderful gal who is 24 years younger and in her early 20's. We seemed to be jiving on every thing including future children, church, where to live, etc. She is saying all the right things in regards to taking care of me and the home, always being there for me, etc. I do not want to walk away from what could be the best thing God wants to give me.

How many times have you called her?  Does she get mad when you call her late or too early? Is she available to talk to on a Friday or Saturday night or busy at the disco? Does she take your call at anytime because you're her #1 man? I've had RW tell me it's okay to call them even while their at work.
 

But does she not realize when she is 40 I will be 64? Is the age difference between life experiences too much? After less than 2 months of communication she is ready to pursue the relationship at full steam.

You've been communicating with her for nearly 2 months and you're asking this question? If you ask her this question, you're accusing her of not knowing what she's doing. Of course she knows your age and some women prefer someone with more life experience instead of younger men who are full of drama.
 
You seem to have doubt in your words and if you do, you are wasting 2 months of your and her time. Regardless of age, some women are marriage material and some aren't. It's your job to figure her out and if she's a winner, go meet her.
 

Since starting this thread that we've run into a snag. She misunderstood something I said and is now asking bluntly for us to be a couple. The more I tell her I want a relationship that grows and not one that is pushed, the more she says she feels like I'm not being honest.   
 

It's been 2 weeks since you posted so I guess the snag is a bad one. After 2 months talking to a woman, you should know where you stand and where you're going. You're hesitating and probably why she feels you're not being totally honest. She'll assume you don't know what you want and soon she'll go find a man that wants her.
 

turbo is 71 y.o, has stamina of a healthy 55 y.o.

I'm 42 yo and I have the stamina of a 55 yo. I guess that makes me healthy too!

[CanadaMan]

There can't be many too many Kyianins making US$5,000 a month, looking at per capita GDP alone, even taking into account non reported income.

Right. I'm certainly not an expert on Kiev/Ukrainian wages.
But you seem to be missing each other's point (Tim).

If everyone in Kiev was a manager I could understand your statement above.
For every manager, how many workers are working below them and earning less?