Russian doctor to US doctor

[RoninISC]

Any folks out there who know anything about the process involved in transferring Russian education & certifications, specifically medical, to US standards?  Any med field men or women with prior work in FSU now doing something similar in US?  Any info would help, thanks.

[alex330]

They would need to pass the USMLE exams. I know two doctors here from the FSU. It took one several years I believe, and she had to retake some refresher courses due to the language barrier.

A quick search shows these two sites which look like a good start for info.
 
http://www.usmle.org/
http://www.ecfmg.org/

Edit - sorry, did not realize it was for the ladies 

[Daveman]

in the ladies' section, but not for the ladies only; men are included.. 

Any folks out there who know anything about the process involved in transferring Russian education & certifications, specifically medical, to US standards?  Any med field men or women with prior work in FSU now doing something similar in US?  Any info would help, thanks.

See?
however!


are you involved in transferring Russian educations & certifications, specifically medical, to US standards? 


or with prior work in FSU now doing something similar in US? (though this part does not specify 'medical'.. so could be anything both there and here)


Seems this gentlemen has very specific prerequisite qualifications for answering the post...  send your resume! 




(just messin' with Sas.. er.. Ronin)

[ML]

Muzh will be able to give you specifics.

[Muzh]

No problem.
 
The Russian doctor will have to have his/her transcipts from med school translated and categorized for compatibility with the US. There is an outfit with the ECFMG who will do that. It is imperative they get access to those and make sure there will be a person at the academic institution who WILL MAIL them to the certification outfit. They WILL NOT accept copies from anyone else, regardless if the transcripts are in a sealed envelope.
 
Once the certification is obtained, the person is recognized as a doctor. HOWEVER, this doctor HAS to take the exams that all medical students in the US take when they graduate from med school IF they want to practice medicine in the US. Namely the Step 1, Step 2 and the Clinical Skills analysis. It is NOT as easy as it sounds. The most difficult one is the Clinical Skills Analysis. The person will spend a whole week in Philadelphia making diagnoses at different stations manned by actors pretending to have certain symptoms. You might say Russian people have the same organs as American people. True, but they are looking at the procedures established by the American certifying body (read: malpractice).
 
Once the doctor passes these exams, he/she will submit his/her name to them for the residency lottery. This doctor will have to do a minimum of two years residency at a US teaching hospital to obtain a GP license. Longer if going for a specialty.
 
It can be done but it is going to cost money. I believe Kaplan offers a curriculum to prepare these doctors for the exams. Last I heard it was around $10,000. AND that is for the Step 1 and Step 2 only.
 
OR, the doctor can apply to a physician assistant program and get the refresher courses needed AND the necessary CLINICAL SKILLS. Keep in mind that once the transcripts from Russia are give the okay from the certification outfit, the doctor will have to take some remedial courses; English, Statistics, Chemistry, and Psychology while getting ready for the GRE. This will be more expensive but there are lots of loans available and once they graduate they can find a practice that will pay for the loans. Of course, the pay will be less but you don't have to worry about that mortgage. AND then apply for the USMLE.
 
Trust me, they will NOT make it easy.

[Wayne]

Look at www.ece.org to evaluate the classes taken and diplomas.
 
If the person was a doctor, nurse, ect in FSU, chances are a lot of course work will need to be done to qualify in USA.
 
If you give up more details, you can get better help.

[Muzh]

Shirt! I thought my post disappeared. 
 
Thanks Wayne, that was the outfit I was referring to in my other post.

[AnonMod]

The topic has been merged.

[Muzh]

Thx

[RoninISC]

That's great guys, a million thanks, especially Muzh.  I'll try to get more info from her on the specifics of her education & practice.  She seems to me like the equivalent of a nurse practitioner but hard to tell.

[Muzh]

That's great guys, a million thanks, especially Muzh.  I'll try to get more info from her on the specifics of her education & practice.  She seems to me like the equivalent of a nurse practitioner but hard to tell.

Ron, if she was a doctor in Russia, she is a doctor in the US. Now, she needs to get the certification to practice in the US.
 
If she was a nurse in Russia then all bets are off. It is my understanding that for her to work as a nurse in the US, she has to start all over again. It doesn't matter if she was a doctor in Russia, she would have to start the nursing program from scratch.

[clancyhound]

 Muzh - this is a really insightful topic, my girl is a neurologist in Russia and enjoys her work greatly.
 We have been looking for information on how to get her license to practice in USA, with no question the challenge and respect that come with being a doctor is very important to her.
 I want her to be happy and fulfilled both personally and professionally here in the US.
 Appreciate all the answers in this thread.
 Thank You to all!!
 

[RoninISC]

Clancy just summed it up.
Muzh- she calls herself a doctor and I have no reason to doubt that, just no idea how it translated.  She's got at least a 4yr from RGMU (РГМУ) and sounds like a GP.  We'll know once we get her evaluated.
Haven't pressed her for documents yet since I don't think we are there yet.  I just want to have that path laid out for her when time is right.
Mr Muzh, you and/or your wife are in the med field?

[Muzh]

Clancy just summed it up.
Muzh- she calls herself a doctor and I have no reason to doubt that, just no idea how it translated.  She's got at least a 4yr from RGMU (РГМУ) and sounds like a GP.  We'll know once we get her evaluated.
Haven't pressed her for documents yet since I don't think we are there yet.  I just want to have that path laid out for her when time is right.

If and when you get to that point make sure you talk to her and ask her if she wants to practice medicine in the US. Then you explain to her it will be difficult but not impossible. Then tell her to find a reliable person at her Med School to help her with sending the transcripts when they are requested. Many times people had to travel back to Russia and Ukraine to do battle with their schools in order for the schools to their jobs. Bottom line, they are expecting a little gratification for their "extra" work.
 
If you go the Kaplan route, it is about $10,000 for as long as it takes. They make the claim they will guarantee success in passing the tests. I don't know the ins and outs of it nor if they do provide classes for the Clinical Skills Analysis (CSA) portion of the USMLE. This is the most important part of the examination. I've been told that the step 1 and step 2 are relatively easy IF you are up-to-date on your subjects. I have taken the practice exams and done relatively well. Also, there are plenty of books that can prepare you for the written tests and a lot cheaper than Kaplan. The killer is going to be the practical (CSA) part.
 
You may want to consider the physician assistant route so check with your local med school if they offer it. Strating salary for a PA is $85K. More if the person has clinical experience (i.e. MD) previous to getting her degree.
 

Mr Muzh, you and/or your wife are in the med field?

I'm a toxicologist and she is an MD.

[Chicagoguy]

I have friends in the Russian MD community in Chicago and can add that many can and do make it but have also known some who end up giving up and quitting. One hurdle can be that after all tests have been passed you need to get into what used to be called residency programs at an accredited hospital. This can be a stumbling block since most of those chosen are coming directly out of medical schools. I am not sure how to get around this but sure enough, people have succeded.

[ML]

Ron, if she was a doctor in Russia, she is a doctor in the US. Now, she needs to get the certification to practice in the US.
 

Muzh, as I understand it, the FSU countries do not (or did not) issue a diploma that says MD (or spelled out as Medical Doctor) on it.

Yes, I understand that does not exclude them from getting certified in USA to practice medicine the same as a MD here . . . but just to clarify.

[erikmagenta]

Hopefully somebody here can help me with a similar question--

I am writing to a lady who is a Dentist in Ukraine, and a different lady who is a Dentist in South America (purely a coincidence--I don't go out of the way to look for Dentists!!).

What kind of course work, etc. would they have to do to practice Dentistry in the USA?  Would the one from Ukraine have to start all over, or would her qualifications transfer to the US, with just a requirement perhaps to take some exams??

[Muzh]

Hopefully somebody here can help me with a similar question--

I am writing to a lady who is a Dentist in Ukraine, and a different lady who is a Dentist in South America (purely a coincidence--I don't go out of the way to look for Dentists!!).

What kind of course work, etc. would they have to do to practice Dentistry in the USA?  Would the one from Ukraine have to start all over, or would her qualifications transfer to the US, with just a requirement perhaps to take some exams??

Same thing as MDs.
 
@ML
 
After my wife's transcripts were certified by the ece.org, NYS and in specific NYS Department of Health would address my wife as "Dr. Irina XXXXX, MD"
 
NYS Education Department is the only one who is waiting for the results of the USMLE to call her MD and they are the one's who will print the license.

[Brianinaz]

The process of obtaining a license is pretty well outlined by Muzh. There will be some variation and additional requirements on a state by state basis so it would be worth a call to the Medical Board in the state you live in to see if they have any additional requirements for foreign graduates. Basically with the exception of a few countries like Canada, Great Brittan, and Australia the only thing you are transferring is the education. The USMLE is the exam US medical graduates take after they graduate and is a requirement for licensure in all 50 states. All US grads must do at least one year of post graduate training (internship) in order to be eligible for a license. I believe this holds true for foreign doctors...they're essentially treated as new grads (Muzh please correct me on that if it's not correct). So, just the MD degree is next to worthless without that additional year of training. In reality next to no one just does an internship; almost all complete a residency (speciality training). Admittance to a residency is done through the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP)http://www.nrmp.org/.  Another resource is the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG®) http://www.ecfmg.org/. Depending on your ladies speciality residency programs are between 3 and 7 years.
There were 3 Russian guys in my residency program which was a novelty in the mid 90's. One was a vascular surgeon from Moscow. He was quite good. The other two were scary bad.
Muzh, I don't think you're correct on the nursing thing. We have all kinds of foreign nurses here in AZ, a lot from the Phillipines. After their educational stuff is verified all they have to do is pass the licensing exam for what ever state they are going to work in. There's staffing agencies that specialize in finding and getting them over here. I actually talked with a few folks about doing the same with nurses from Ukraine. That was just about the time the economy tanked and the demand pretty much dried up so I never went any where with it.

[mendeleyev]

My question has no advice as I'm not qualified, but I'm interested to find if such practices still exist. Some time ago over a couple of years I'd speak to the Russian and Ukrainian nursing students at the UCLA School of Nursing. Most of them were full doctors in the FSU but had to complete a nursing program and then additional med studies in order to get their licenses. I spoke at their holiday parties when most were on Christmas break. It was a chance for me to rub shoulders with them in the USA and opportunity for them to catch up on what was happening back home.

The way it was explained was that patient care standards were so different, and at one time they were, that a year in nursing was needed prior to a final year in med school. Is that still a requirement? That was a long time ago and perhaps things are different now but I'd like to know.

[RoninISC]

This is all useful info, thanks to everyone posting.
Things have decelerated a bit w my doctor, but still keeping this on the potential horizon.

[Muzh]

Brian, as you can see, I rarely join the forum on weekends.  Too much to do.

Anyway, to your questions.

The process of obtaining a license is pretty well outlined by Muzh. There will be some variation and additional requirements on a state by state basis so it would be worth a call to the Medical Board in the state you live in to see if they have any additional requirements for foreign graduates. Basically with the exception of a few countries like Canada, Great Brittan, and Australia the only thing you are transferring is the education. The USMLE is the exam US medical graduates take after they graduate and is a requirement for licensure in all 50 states. All US grads must do at least one year of post graduate training (internship) in order to be eligible for a license. I believe this holds true for foreign doctors...they're essentially treated as new grads (Muzh please correct me on that if it's not correct). So, just the MD degree is next to worthless without that additional year of training. In reality next to no one just does an internship; almost all complete a residency (speciality training). Admittance to a residency is done through the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP)http://www.nrmp.org/.  Another resource is the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG®) http://www.ecfmg.org/. Depending on your ladies speciality residency programs are between 3 and 7 years.

Correct in all counts. And now with the Affordable Care Act, there will be lots of money for hiring and training new doctors.

Regarding residency, it's a roll of the dice. There are US graduate students that will be shipped to Podunk, USA while you can have Russian doctors heading to Cedars Sinai. There is nothing guaranteed with the residency program. If the candidate is not willing to go where he was selected, he can sit that year (or is it term? not sure) and wait for his next assignment. Please understand, this is all on paper. Reality can change depending on how deep are the pockets.

There were 3 Russian guys in my residency program which was a novelty in the mid 90's. One was a vascular surgeon from Moscow. He was quite good. The other two were scary bad.

Not surprised.

Muzh, I don't think you're correct on the nursing thing. We have all kinds of foreign nurses here in AZ, a lot from the Phillipines. After their educational stuff is verified all they have to do is pass the licensing exam for what ever state they are going to work in. There's staffing agencies that specialize in finding and getting them over here. I actually talked with a few folks about doing the same with nurses from Ukraine. That was just about the time the economy tanked and the demand pretty much dried up so I never went any where with it.

I believe the nursing issue is state by state. I know in NY a nurse candidate has to start from scratch. We looked into it.

Also, I've heard (rumor) that somewhere in FLA they were taking Russian doctors without having to go through all the rigors expected everywhere else.

@Mendy The better alternative is the Physician Assistant program. The candidate earns a Masters in Science which the can attach at the end of their alphabet. Not to mention that this program prepares you much better for the USMLE tests. Keep in mind that the candidate is eligible for student aid (loans) which can be paid by the entity that will hire you. Your initial pay is not that high, but your salary is not chicken feed either.

[Eduard]

Hopefully somebody here can help me with a similar question--

I am writing to a lady who is a Dentist in Ukraine, and a different lady who is a Dentist in South America (purely a coincidence--I don't go out of the way to look for Dentists!!).

What kind of course work, etc. would they have to do to practice Dentistry in the USA?  Would the one from Ukraine have to start all over, or would her qualifications transfer to the US, with just a requirement perhaps to take some exams??

My wife was a dentist in Russia so we have researched this extensively. In a word, the situation really sucks! It slightly varies by state, but here in Florida she would have to go back to a dental school for 4 years. But what really sucks is the fact that there are only 2 dental schools in Florida and they accept a very limited number of foreign dentists per year (I think it was only 12 a year!) with hundreds of applicants. So she would have to wait for several years just to get into the dental school. We decided to have kids instead. Florida is the only state that will allow a foreign dentist take National Dental Board exam, Florida dental board exam and practical exam and will grant her/him a dental hygienist license. My wife did just that, got her license but couldn't find work around here due to a very bad economic situation (local dentists who used to have 6 hygiensists on staff now only have 1 or 2). Plus there is a dental hygiene school at a local community college here so hygienists are not in demand, there's too many of them around. It's really sad, particularly that about 25-30 years ago a dentist from Russia could just take the exam and get a license to practice in the USA. I've known several dentists who did just that when I lived in New York. But things changed...

[SANDRO43]

...a dental hygienist license. My wife did just that, got her license but couldn't find work around here due to a very bad economical situation.

Tough luck . In 2009 Berlusconi's 23 y.o. dental hygienist:

was given a highly-paid seat in Lombardy's regional council - we treat meretricious meritorious dental hygienists much better here .

[Muzh]

Well Sandro, she's got lots of talent!