LAND OWNERSHIP in Ukraine

[Wayne]

Does anyone know, what happens if you are US citizen married to a Ukrainian, you are living together in USA. Then, your spouse becomes a US Citizen. She still owns property and/or apartment, house or whatever in Ukraine.

The rules, laws, whatever for land ownership in Ukraine is limited for US Citizens. It is also subject to change.

Would the Ukrainian, now turned American, lose or be forced to sell their property in Ukraine? What if, for example, they owned not only the flat where they used to live, but another flat or vacant property?

[tfcrew]

Would the Ukrainian, now turned American, lose or be forced to sell their property in Ukraine? 

The short answer is ....not necessarily.

 

[TheTraveler]

 
did she renounce her ukrainian citizenship?.... or does she now have dual-citizenship?
 

[tfcrew]

We've gone through all this in the other thread.
They 'renounce' nothing.
Ukraine does not have 'dual citizenship accommodation.

[timinua]

With the exception of agricultural land, foreigners have the same rights as Ukrainians regarding property (foreigners cannot own agricultural land). I own several pieces of property, property that I have had since before getting my Blue Card.

The only problem will be that the title of the property is in your wife's name based on her Ukrainian internal passport information. However, I couldn't image that she would give up her Ukrainian  internal passport. Even if she enters on her new US passport, she could use her Ukrainian internal passport to conduct business. Internal and foreign passport are not linked.

However, if she wants to dot the is and cross the ts, she could change the ownership documentation to reflect her new passport and citizenship status. It would just involve expense (a fee at BTI, maybe some taxes) and headaches (changing names on tax number, getting translated copies of her passport, etc.).

The other option is just to keep mum. One of the biggest lessons I have learned here is NEVER give up any information unless you absolutely have to. Why tell BTI, ZHEK or a notary (in the event of selling) that she has become a US citizen?

[tfcrew]

.. just   keep mum. One of the biggest lessons I have learned here is NEVER give up any information unless you absolutely have to. Why tell BTI, ZHEK or a notary (in the event of selling) that she has become a US citizen?

+1 Stay away when she has to have any property dealings.
Out of sight..out of mind

[JayH]

Tim-- to get this straight-  you are not UKR citizen>? You own property in your own name?
OR--its in your wifes name?  Or different properties both ways?

[timinua]

Tim-- to get this straight-  you are not UKR citizen>? You own property in your own name?
OR--its in your wifes name?  Or different properties both ways?

I have US citizenship and permanent residency in Ukraine. All of my property (except our new house, which is being built, and which is in my wife and my names) are/have been in my name. I've bought and sold about 15 properties since I've been here (most of them long before my residency).

There is, however, talk of a new sales tax for properties that are resold before three years, and the rumor is that non-citizens will pay a hefty tax. But besides that (which may or may not come into being) and the agricultural-land restriction, there is no difference other than a translated passport and an official interpreter (for those who don't speak UKRAINIAN) between foreigners and citizens.

[Wayne]

Thanks for the imformation, Tim
 
It seems like you had more experience with land dealings in Ukraine than anyone else here.
When my Wife and I were married in Ukraine, she was told that if she changed her surname, she would have 30 days to change her name on all her important documents.
 
A notary quoted her a very high price for changing her name on three properties she owns in Ukraine. It seems like a notary in Ukraine is like some little God! Have you had any problems like this?
 
In USA, either a bank or title company completes the closing, paper work, etc for a real estate sale. It seems like in Ukraine this notary does all that? What is your experience with notaries?
 
You said you are building a house. Did you get the land surveyed? It seems like everyone likes a stone fense around their property. What part of Ukraine do you live? How do you like it there? Do you work? Are you building your own house? Are you familiar with shell stone? It is cheaper than cement blocks in some parts of Ukraine.

[Wayne]

Tim, you say non-citizens of Ukraine cannot own farm land? 
 
Across the street for our land in a dacha community near Sevastapol, there is a very large vineyard. Your know, grapes and wine are grown extensively in Crimea.
 
I am told that famous French Actor, Gerard Depardieu, owns all this land. How can it be? Is there an exception if you are rich enough?

[Hammer2722]

Tim, you say non-citizens of Ukraine cannot own farm land? 
 
Across the street for our land in a dacha community near Sevastapol, there is a very large vineyard. Your know, grapes and wine are grown extensively in Crimea.
 
I am told that famous French Actor, Gerard Depardieu, owns all this land. How can it be? Is there an exception if you are rich enough?

I guess if you are rich enough, anything will be possible in Ukraine. LOL

[alex330]

I believe you are able to rent the farmland in Ukraine for lengthy periods similar to leaseholds in Hawaii or Mexico.

There have been talks of opening up the fallow land to foreign investors recently as well. Not sure how willing I would be to jump into something like that with the known corruption.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/2759601-alex-frishberg/609831-ukraines-foreign-investors-and-the-lifting-of-farmland-moratorium

[Wayne]

I guess it is not so much what you know, but  who you know! Check this out:
 

True “Hutsuls” from France and Georgia visited Ukraine!!

Gerard Depardieu and Michail Saakashvili were pleasant guests in the Carpathian residence of President of Ukraine

It is known that Christmas is a family holiday, when you want to see only close to you people and good friends. President of Ukraine Viktor Yuschenko is not exception, and his good friends were the guests to his residence in the Carpathians “Synehirya” in the village Hutta. Firstly President of Georgia Michail Saakashvili came, and then also a famous French actor Gerard Depardieu. On the 5, January they went together to the “Manyavsky skyt” that is located in the Bogorodchansky district of the Ivano-Frankivsk region, and the next day they spent on the traditional Hutsul market in Yaremcha.
On the market Depardieu was much opened and has an excellent mood – he was trying the majority of traditional boots and hats. The actor bought some Hutsul clothes and many souvenirs. As the journalist counted he spent there about 1000 USD, and was very satisfied. He gave a lot of authographs to the local people. Sellers were admired by this person.
Gerard Depardieu has been interested in Ukraine for a long time. He even thinks to own some wine producing factory in the Crimea or to purchase some other Ukrainian real estate. According to his words, for the first time he heard about this country from the books of Honore de Balzak who had a romance with daughter of the Ukrainian duke. The actor told that he respects the President of Ukraine and loves Ukraine very much.
Source: www.korrespondent.net

[timinua]

Yes, you can rent farmland through a corporation. I believe the lease period is up to 49 years. As a foreigner, however, you cannot privatize it (when they start allowing that again, supposedly in the next few years). Some farmland was privatized before the moratorium (which is still in effect). If it's privatized, anyone can buy it. However, if it was not legally privatized, it can be reclaimed by the government.

[timinua]

Thanks for the imformation, Tim
 
It seems like you had more experience with land dealings in Ukraine than anyone else here.
When my Wife and I were married in Ukraine, she was told that if she changed her surname, she would have 30 days to change her name on all her important documents.
 
A notary quoted her a very high price for changing her name on three properties she owns in Ukraine. It seems like a notary in Ukraine is like some little God! Have you had any problems like this?
 
In USA, either a bank or title company completes the closing, paper work, etc for a real estate sale. It seems like in Ukraine this notary does all that? What is your experience with notaries?
 
You said you are building a house. Did you get the land surveyed? It seems like everyone likes a stone fense around their property. What part of Ukraine do you live? How do you like it there? Do you work? Are you building your own house? Are you familiar with shell stone? It is cheaper than cement blocks in some parts of Ukraine.

Yes, notaries act as closing agent, title insurance, and contract maker. If you buy anything in Ukraine, you have to find an excellent notary. He or she will make sure you don't have any problems. If you ever think of buying anything in the Kherson Oblast, I can introduce you to the guy I always use. Anywhere else, I have no idea.

I am having the house built. Like most houses in Ukraine, we are using Crimean Stone (which may be what you are talking about, but I've never heard your term). It's light, has a high insulation property, and is quite inexpensive. The land was surveyed, and I bought it with a fence, a foundation, and all utilities, three years ago from someone who had money problems due to the Crisis. It was only this year, after the birth of our daughter, that the Center with is garbage, its crowds, and its alcoholics finally lost its charm in my wife's eyes.

Better late than never

[The Natural]

My girl has told me before that  Gerard Depardieu bought land close to Sevastopol, which I guess should be interesting for us here on RWD.

No serious plans, but we were looking at properties for sale here in the Kerch area of Crimea on the internet. Lots of nonsense, but, surprisingly, some high quality houses that were just about complete on the outside but not the inside. Funding problems perhaps?

[Wayne]

Yes, Tim, we are talking about the same type of material. It is a natural, light weight, porous material which contains mostly pieces of sea shell. I have seen houses being built with it. It is not as uniform in size and shape as cement blocks (which are made in forms). It can be coated with plaster inside or outside. The air spaces give it insulating value.
 
So it sounds like you are building outside of the city itself? Are you taking photographs as the construction takes place? I notice the materials and construction methods differ a lot from USA. I see a type of roofing material that is made of a composite material in a pattern that looks somewhat like metal roofing material. In goes on in large sheets. There doesn't seem to be much wood used; mainly for roof rafters and floors.
 
In Crimea, there are earth quakes to contend with. It looks like plenty of steel reinforcement goes into concrete.

[The Natural]

I noticed when we rented the cottages in Crimea that it seemed, from a distance, that it was covered with wooden boards on the outside, like I'm used to from Norway. But when you came close by, you notice it's a plastic sort of material and it gives when you press it.


My observation is that it seems wood is used only as supporting structure on top of concrete whereas back home it's used throughout the building except for the concrete structure.


I have noticed how much they use the stone bricks you mentioned. Even in small villages, the modest of houses are surrounded by these brick walls.

[Wayne]

In Norway, you have a cold climate and need a lot of insulation. The wood frame construction gives you a space to install the insulation. There are probably trees suitable to mill into lumber.
 
In Crimea, the climate is much warmer. The summer can be quite hot, but more dry! A different type of construction might be more suitable. I also noticed most of the trees in Crimea are too small to make lumber, so wood might be relatively high in cost compared to the shell stone material.
 
The shell stone (or whatever you call it) I think is soft when it is cut, but gets a little harder, denser, and smaller as it ages. It looks like the concrete foundation with steel reinforcement is allowed to age for a few months before the shell stone is added on. Then, the outside walls are built with the shell stone, perhaps the roof is built, and then the structure sits there for a long time before the doors and windows are added. Perhaps the walls shrink! The plaster or stucco (I think) is not done until much later. Probably because of the shrinking.
 
I don't think the shell stone can be used for a fireplace? A block that is about 20 x 20 x 40 cm costs, perhaps, about two grivinas, or less depending upon transportation.
 
Yes, I see high brick or block fense walls around even a small dacha. They must be spending more money on the fense than the building! It is surprising that the dacha properties, which are out in the middle of nowhere, are so small! About 400 square meters seems typical. Perhaps the stone walls give more of a sense of privacy?
 
I don't like the idea of plastic siding over the shell stone! It ruins the whole look.
 
I think in Norway and some parts of Siberia you have wood that is naturally rot resistant? If you want to build a very expensive deck in USA you can get it imported.

[Gylden]

In Norway, you have a cold climate and need a lot of insulation. The wood frame construction gives you a space to install the insulation. There are probably trees suitable to mill into lumber.
 
In Crimea, the climate is much warmer. The summer can be quite hot, but more dry! A different type of construction might be more suitable. I also noticed most of the trees in Crimea are too small to make lumber, so wood might be relatively high in cost compared to the shell stone material.
 
The shell stone (or whatever you call it) I think is soft when it is cut, but gets a little harder, denser, and smaller as it ages. It looks like the concrete foundation with steel reinforcement is allowed to age for a few months before the shell stone is added on. Then, the outside walls are built with the shell stone, perhaps the roof is built, and then the structure sits there for a long time before the doors and windows are added. Perhaps the walls shrink! The plaster or stucco (I think) is not done until much later. Probably because of the shrinking.
 
I don't think the shell stone can be used for a fireplace? A block that is about 20 x 20 x 40 cm costs, perhaps, about two grivinas, or less depending upon transportation.
 
Yes, I see high brick or block fense walls around even a small dacha. They must be spending more money on the fense than the building! It is surprising that the dacha properties, which are out in the middle of nowhere, are so small! About 400 square meters seems typical. Perhaps the stone walls give more of a sense of privacy?
 
I don't like the idea of plastic siding over the shell stone! It ruins the whole look.
 
I think in Norway and some parts of Siberia you have wood that is naturally rot resistant? If you want to build a very expensive deck in USA you can get it imported.

That's right Wayne, I have used Siberian Larch wood for siding on my house and for all of the decks in the garden and attatched to the house. In the same way as redwood is used on the west coast of the US. It is untreated and unpainted and turns a nice grey color with a yellowish/gold color in the grain.
 
My wife says that all of these wood houses are just datchas by Ukrainian standards...LOL.

[ghost of moon goddess]

My girl has told me before that  Gerard Depardieu bought land close to Sevastopol, which I guess should be interesting for us here on RWD.

To be more precise, he bought vineyards somewhere in Bakhchisaray district.
Some years ago he  sought permission to purchase farmland, but, as far as I know, he was refused.

[Wayne]

Yes, Siberian Larch is the wood. It is a deciduous conifer. The leaves turn a golden yellow color in the Fall. It is normally not painted. We have a type of Larch in Michigan. It is difficult to get in USA.
 
Actually, the vineyard is just across the dirt trail road from our dacha property. I have photographs somewhere.

[Faux Pas]

My girl has told me before that  Gerard Depardieu bought land close to Sevastopol, which I guess should be interesting for us here on RWD.

No serious plans, but we were looking at properties for sale here in the Kerch area of Crimea on the internet. Lots of nonsense, but, surprisingly, some high quality houses that were just about complete on the outside but not the inside. Funding problems perhaps?

I don't know if there is even a connection but, it seems that it is quite common in Russia to buy a dwelling, complete on the outside and pretty bare on the inside. Some or no walls finished, concrete floors, electrical and plumbing just roughed in. I know of a couple of people who bought just such in some new complexes that look great on the outside, barely livable on the inside.

[SANDRO43]

IIRC, in a past interview Gérard Depardieu confessed that he started his now well-established personal love for food and wine - afterwards turned into business ventures - in 1976 while playing the part of Olmo (Elm) in Bertolucci's:

The long countryside/farm shots were mostly done in Emilia-Romagna, our region recently struck by quakes.

[Boethius]

IIRC, in a past interview Gérard Depardieu confessed that he started his now well-established personal love for food and wine - afterwards turned into business ventures - in 1976 while playing the part of Olmo (Elm) in Bertolucci's.

My husband told me years ago that Depardieu had purchased ancient wineries.  This was in the Yushchenko, perhaps even the Kuchma years, I don't recall, it was so long ago.  I was shocked that a foreigner could buy what were, essentially, agricultural lands.