One big red flag (with sickle and hammer)?

[Sponsor]

Guys. Don't you think that only the fact of advertising themselves in dating agencies aimed at foreign men is a big red flag? Don't you thing that there are no decent men in Russia or Ukraine? In many cases these women have boyfriends there, but still looking for something else. And this something else is not Love. This is a visa, money and beautiful life outside of FSU. And we are only instruments for them to achieve these goals.

They can easily fool you by their lullabies about their big feelings. They will show you their true colors after crossing the border, when it's too late for you to do anything.

I 've already made that mistake three years ago and still paying a big price. 

[catzenmouse]

Yes, there all those bad things to consider and any man should think about them and do his homework.

But, there are also many very, very good women who have not found the  local man who would be loyal to them and take care of them (and in many  cases their child(ren)) who do want to find a man who will be all these  things for them. Elena could have been taken care of by several men who  wanted something on the side but she wanted more than just to be  someones mistress/plaything.

YMMV,
Ken

[Aleksia]

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Guys. Don't you think that only the fact of advertising themselves in dating agencies aimed at foreign men is a big red flag?
 

Sponsor, and what do you mean by that? Do you want to tell that all the women who decided to look for a man in another country via the dating or marriage agencies are scammers or women who are looking for a sponsor?

I find it just ridiculous.

Of course there is % there of women who are looking for a man with money, but most of the women are looking for good husbands and fathers for their children. What is wrong with that?

Does it mean that if a foreign guy is looking for a woman in foreign dating agencies, he is a looser? And a man who is just after a housewife and maid?

Unfortunately, there is also such opinion about foreign men in Russia. Does it mean that all the women think this way? Of course not!

I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience, but it does not mean that this can be a red flag!

 

[Ste]

Think we've been here before - my opinion FWIW is that you have to question the prime motive of anyone who walks into an INTERNATIONAL dating agency for a partner.

That very capitalised word for me means the proponent has rejected the possibilty of finding a partner in their home country. Why would they do that?

For me the fact is the FSU woman walking into 'A Chance for Romance' or 'Hrny American Men: Best of Antidate' agency is not thinking primarily of purely finding a partner, more like a partner with money, nice house, better environment, or any combination of those. Otherwise why not just look locally or in-Country? She's thinking 'ok, I'm gonna lose all my friends, go through culture change but it'll be worth it cos I'll be better off financially' As she fills in the application form, she's imagining walking on a beach in Malibu, or the narrow streets of London, having a car, credit card etc. She's not thinking of a foriegn man yet cos she's not seen any yet, and there are plenty of local men around the corner for those kind of dreams.

Of course it all sounds dreadfully cynical, my analysis labels everyone as at worst a scammer, at best a GCG, I agree for most cases this isn't the ONLY motive, but I'd say for a lot it's the PRIME motive.

Same the other way, to use Jack's protege , Gomer has written off ALL American women for being shallow and seeks an RW because they prefer older men and are family oriented. As he walks into 'Russian Babes Like Me' or 'Young FSU girlfriends R Us' he's thinking about these aspects primarily, not love or romance or building a relationship based on face-time, a common language, and time to grow into each other.

He's imagining the jealous looks his mates will give him, the vision of him watching TV, beer in hand while she cooks, washes and irons.

God, I'm a right miserable b@stard today!

Ste






   

[catzenmouse]

God, I'm a right miserable b@stard today!

Ste

That's one of your most endearing qualities Ste~ :P;)
Ken

[Aleksia]

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For me the fact is the FSU woman walking into 'A Chance for Romance' or 'Hrny American Men: Best of Antidate' agency is not thinking primarily of purely finding a partner, more like a partner with money, nice house, better environment, or any combination of those. Otherwise why not just look locally or in-Country?

 

I can tell you why.

Again, I do not tell that 100% think this way.

Women in their late 20's, middle 30's

At least 50% of them are divorced and at least with one child. A Russian man will never accept somebody's child as his own. % of happy second marriages with the child from the previous is small.

Come on, most of Russian men do not want to take care about their own children. But many women in this situation know that Western men think differently. They do not care if a child is their biological or not. They will love a child and help to bring him up.

Again…. of course not all of them, but most.

Big % of men in Russia or let's say Ukraine, Belarus, etc. have problems with drinking, with having a stable work.

A lot of good guys are already married. A lot of married men have at least one mistress.

So, what to do in this case?

There are a lot of good and decent women, who will be happy to get married locally, but who have to look for in another country for family values, for having a stable relationship.

There are more women in Russia than men.

Life interval of men is 58 years.

So, do not think that all women who are looking for their second half in another countries, are only after money.

 

 

[Ste]

>>I can tell you why.

>>Again, I do not tell that 100% think this way.

>>Women in their late 20?s, middle 30?s

>>At least 50% of them are divorced and at least with one child. A Russian man will never accept >>somebody?s child as his own. % of happy second marriages with the child from the previous is >>small.

All of them? 90% of them? I think not, probably the same percentage as most everywhere in the world.

>>Come on, most of Russian men do not want to take care about their own children. But many women >>in this situation know that Western men think differently. They do not care if a child is >>their biological or not. They will love a child and help to bring him up.

>>Again?. of course not all of them, but most.

Another Agency Myth. Look here in UK, this morning I saw The Trisha Show, full of deadbeat dads, disowned children, blighted relationships, do I conclude most UK men are the same? Again, how can a whole nation of men be mostly the same?


>>Big % of men in Russia or let?s say Ukraine, Belarus, etc. have problems with drinking, with >>having a stable work.

So these ladies ARE looking for a more finacially stable life abroad?

>>A lot of good guys are already married. A lot of married men have at least one mistress.

>>So, what to do in this case?

>>There are a lot of good and decent women, who will be happy to get married locally, but who >>have to look for in another country for family values, for having a stable relationship.

Funny, that's why Gomer went to FSU! So are we to conclude that Russia has good and decent women, and drunken and itinerant men, and the West has bad self-centred women and caring and child-loving men? Odd they all ended up in the wrong countries.   


>>There are more women in Russia than men.

Rubbish. Well true, if ur over 65! - From Wiki...

Sex ratio:

at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.94 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.46 male(s)/female
total population: 0.88 male(s)/female (2000 est)

These figures show that ignoring the fact women generally live longer then men throughout the World, and Russia's huge male losses in WW2, the ratio twixt men and women is as you expect nature to make it, 1:1.

>>Life interval of men is 58 years.

The figures show that up to age 65, the are roughly as many men as women in Russia. In fact Wiki says male life expectancy at birth is 62 years, still pretty poor and indded it does indicate high mortality rate for Russian men.

>>So, do not think that all women who are looking for their second half in another countries, >>are only after money.

I didn't say all and only, I just said it's a signficant amount and a primary motivator.

All just my opinion!

Ste

PS sorry for weird formatting, on a machine at work!

[Aleksia]

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Another Agency Myth. Look here in UK, this morning I saw The Trisha Show, full of deadbeat dads, disowned children, blighted relationships, do I conclude most UK men are the same? Again, how can a whole nation of men be mostly the same?[
I am married, I have a child from the previous marriage. I communicate not just with the former clients, but know women here in my country. Most of them are with at least one child from the previous marriage. So, I am sorry to say to you, but I know what I am talking about. You can call it the agency myth. Maybe in your country it is so. Not in mine!

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So these ladies ARE looking for a more finacially stable life abroad?





these women are looking for a family, full with mother and father. they want to give something to their children. You can call it better financial life. I can call it security for the family and for the children.

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Rubbish. Well true, if ur over 65! - From Wiki...





Do not know who is Wikki. But you can tell to her to look in the fresh newspapers and statistic.

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The figures show that up to age 65, the are roughly as many men as women in Russia. In fact Wiki says male life expectancy at birth is 62 years, still pretty poor and indded it does indicate high mortality rate for Russian men.





Information is specially for your Wikki

Продолжительность жизни мужчин и женщин в � оссии - 58 и 66 лет
В настоящее время продолжительность жизни мужчин и женщин в � оссии составляет, соответственно, 58 и 66 лет. Об этом говорится в докладе Всемирного банка по проблемам преждевременной смертности в � оссии.


"� оссия является одной из немногих стран со средним уровнем доходов, где в настоящее время наблюдается сокращение ожидаемой продолжительности жизни", - говорится в докладе.

В � оссии продолжительность жизни на 12 лет короче, чем в США. За период с 1992 по 2003 год российское население сократилось на шесть миллионов человек и составляет, по некоторым оценкам, 143 миллиона человек. Численность населения � Ф к 2025 году может сократиться примерно еще на 18 миллионов человек в свете современных тенденций, характеризующихся низким уровнем рождаемости и высокой смертностью населения, говорится в докладе Всемирного банка.

В частности, российские мужчины живут на 16 лет меньше, чем мужчины западноевропейских стран, и на 14 лет меньше, чем российские женщины. Столь большая разница в продолжительности жизни между мужчинами и женщинами в одной и той же стране говорит о влиянии специфических поведенческих факторов, а не внешних условий или качества медицинского обслуживания, считают эксперты Всемирного банка.

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These figures show that ignoring the fact women generally live longer then men throughout the World, and Russia's huge male losses in WW2, the ratio twixt men and women is as you expect nature to make it, 1:1.
Again, for Wikki:

[align=justify]Тревожный вывод делается в новом докладе ООН по Восточной Европе. Так, российские мужчины среднего возраста вымирают в угрожающем темпе, а те, кто еще уцелел, страдают от болезней, депрессии и алкоголизма. [/align]
[align=justify]Это подтверждают и наши ученые: нынешние тенденции приведут к тому, что в ближайшие 30 лет - численность населения � оссии сократится вдвое. [/align]
[align=justify]Продолжительность жизни россиян падает, а вместе с ней падает и уровень рождаемости. Угрожающим является уровень жизни мужчин, 58 лет. � азрыв показателей продолжительности жизни женщин и мужчин достиг 13 лет. С этим связано ненормально низкое соотношение количества мужчин и женщин в посткоммунистических странах (по сравнению с среднемировым). В � оссии, например, не хватает 5,9 млн. мужчин. [/align]
[align=justify]Переход к рыночной экономике, говорится в докладе ООН, привел к демографической катастрофе, связанной с тем, что все меньшее количество людей вступает в брак и все меньше людей решается завести детей. Причина этого в утрате большинством людей надежды и ощущения безопасности в связи с экономической ситуацией, ростом безработицы, распадом социальной системы. В � оссии вновь свирепствуют такие болезни, как туберкулез, анемия, полиомиелит, считавшиеся давно побежденными. Если подобные тенденции сохранятся, как считают российские демографы, население большинства территорий � оссии будет уменьшаться вдвое каждые 28-30 лет. [/align]
[align=justify]Вот такая печальная статистика. Итак, кому больше верить, властьимущим, которые твердят, что уровень жизни нашего народа повышается или вышеприведенным данным статистики? Наверное, каждый правдиво ответит на этот вопрос.[/align]
http://www.dagpanorama.ru/smi_people/1/smi2005-m1812.htm

 

Численность россиянок также превышает численность россиян, примерно на 10 млн. Причем наиболее ощутимый разрыв начинается в 35-летнем возрасте.


Regions.ru

 

So, if you will get translation, you will see the statistic.

Now tell me, please, what should 10 millions of women, who can not find men for marriage do? Live alone? Or look for abroad?


 

[Turboguy]

Maybe I have listened to too much agency hype but I have to think there is something to what they say.   I asked one gal I met earlier this year why she was looking for a husband from outside her country.  She has a child.   Her answer was "Russian men don't want me"   Personaly I think many of the women want a stable family life that consists of a husband and a wife and children in many cases and just ask yourself this if you think that is easy to find there.   "How many of the women that you write to have a dad that is married to their mother"   I would say in my correspondence it is a very very small percentage.

Yes, we have deadbeat dads here too.  You can go many places and see what really amounts to wanted posters where they owe their child $ 10,000 or $ 50,000.  They have to leave the state because the courts will come after them.  Try not paying child support for a while and see where you end up.  You will either end up in jail or have a situation where the child support is deducted from your pay before you can ever touch it.  It is very hard here to not support your children.  That is not the case in the FSU.  I don't know what the percentages are for men financially helping their kids when they are divoreced, but it is not big.

[Aleksia]

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"How many of the women that you write to have a dad that is married to their mother"   I would say in my correspondence it is a very very small percentage.

I think even more correct will be to ask -

how many of the women that you write to have a mom who is happily married to their father?

Because there still are many women who can not afford a divorce because of a lot of things: too difficult to survive as a single mother, fear of being alone, shame of a divorce, etc. etc.

[ronin308]

Firstly I'll say Sponser has had a bad experience which has made him rather bitter about the whole thing.  So of course his judgement is rather one sided.

From my limited experience I've seen all kinds of reasons that women sign up with an agency. 

I happened to listen to an interesting conversation between my fiance and a friend of hers a while back.  Her friend was having a hard time finding a good man.  Call it bad luck or bad decisions, my fiance's adivice to her was to go join the agency where we met.

While my fiance will spout the agency line, after getting to know her for a while I see a different underlying reason.  She had a really bad experience and it she rationalized that the problems she had are something shared with all Ukrainian men.  Of course her brother provides an example of this as he's unemployed with a wife and kid, living off of family charity.  Now it's easy to say but that happens in (put country here), it's also easy to rationalize that it doesn't happen there.

I do feel that the fact that they will improve their lives a bit does enter into the picture, my favorite example of this is the first Ukrainian girl I met, she answered my personals ad on an American website.  I wrote back and even visited her.  Through the entire time we corresponded she was very honest in saying that she wanted to marry a man to come to america for a better life.  However she would not marry a man she couldn't or didn't love.  The fact that she rejected me before I said anything either way proved this to me.

I honestly feel that with a lot of the one week wonders (like myself) they say yes because they feel they can love the man, and just like the man want to use the 90 days as a "trial period".  I know for a fact that my fiance didn't love me when she said yes, but she felt that she could.  One important thing is that she never said I love you until she actually felt it which was after I had left and we got to know each other better.  I asked her about this one time and she point blank told me she actually started loving me after I left.

Of course in most cases after they yes, the next time they see the man is in the US and now he is calling her a GCG because unrealistic expectations were set on both parties part, compounded by a lack of a common language.

To answer the question, yes the posibility of encountering a scammer is much higher in an agency than just trying to go there and date but at the same time going there to date is risky because maybe the lady doesn't want to leave, with an agency at least that intent has been established.

[Aleksia]

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To answer the question, yes the posibility of encountering a scammer is much higher in an agency than just trying to go there and date but at the same time going there to date is risky because maybe the lady doesn't want to leave, with an agency at least that intent has been established.
Yes and no in both situations.

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To answer the question, yes the posibility of encountering a scammer is much higher in an agency than just trying to go there and date  
Well, in this situation it can be a lot of problems as well. If, for example, you are working in Russia and date there. The first thing a girl knows about you is that you are a foreigner, which for many girls still mean - a rich man. Not many understand that life can be difficult in America as well. That you have to work hard, to pay bills, etc and you can be poor, you can have problems the same way as in your own country.

So, where is your guarantee that a girl is dating you because she likes you and not the fact that you are a foreigner? And can take her to your country later?!

There is none. I have been working as the interpreter and a personal assistant in the big British advertising agency in Moscow. My boss was a British guy, around 35 years old. Not very attractive, but he always had a lot of girls around him. Each of his Russian friends tried to present him to his sister, relative, etc. girls tried to use him a lot. Does it happen often? I think so. Of course, you can be lucky and find a girl who will sincerely love you and not your citizenship, but it's a risk any way.

 

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at the same time going there to date is risky because maybe the lady doesn't want to leave, with an agency at least that intent has been established.
 


With the agency you can be 99% sure that a girl is ready to leave her country, but never 100%.

I knew girls who married abroad, but wanted to come back to their homes any way, as they could not get adjusted to a new life.

I am not telling that it is safer to use the agency.

I am just trying to tell that you will always have a risk to end up with the gold-digger - no matter if this is via the agency, via the people you know, via your work, with your local girl or with the girl from another country.

 

[Aleksia]

by the way, on the subject of - why Russian women are looking forward to get married with the foreign men - opinions of different famous people: politicians, tv-leaders, delegates of Russian Parlament, etc.

Information was publushed in Russian language in one of the biggest newspapers

parts to make them understandable.

 

QUESTION OF THE DAY
 
Why our women do vomit marry for the foreigners?
 
Arkady ININ, the satirist:
 
- yes because it is simple fool.
 
Helen KHANGA, Tele-leading:
 
- In the last 10 years everything has changed. Earlier than the woman they considered that the foreigners will give to them sky in the diamonds. But now also in Russia there are men much more well-off overseas princes.
 
Nina OSTANINA, the Deputy Chairman komitet the State Duma for the affairs of women and family:
 
- i do not see anything terrible in the foreign husbands. But I think only unsuccessful women want to get married with them and want to solve material problems. Tendency is such, which in Russian woman today is much less than rights and the possibilities to realize itself, than in men. 
 
Vladimir CARPENTERS, the leader of the agrarian party:
 
- A you will recall Olympiads. Our women take away entire "gold". No matter how it was offensive, Russian men becomes too small, degenerate. That is why  our women look for their men in other countries.
 
Regina DUBOVITSKAYA, which leads programs "notice":
 
- yes this not of woman our vomit marry for the foreigners, but foreigners run after them. Because our women know how to work hard, and to remain beautiful at the same time. 
 
Aleksandr KRUTOV, Deputy of the Gosduma:
 
- I think that these women do not find in Russia that love, about which they dream. Although the marriages with the foreigners frequently conclude with disappointment. In my opinion you have to look for your second half in your own country. So that you will have common points of views.
 
Helen MALYSHEVA, which leads transfers "health":
 
- 4 such tendencies I do not see. In my opinion all this remained in the past. Now our women anywhere do not vomit.
 
Rafgat ALTYNBAYEV, the Deputy Chairman of the Russian party OF THE LIFE:
 
- I do not agree that our women dream only to marry foreigner. In the overwhelming majority they want to meet  a real love, to find their half, and already nationality and citizenship - not so important.
 
Oleg MALYSHKIN, Deputy of the Gosduma:
 
- they think that they can settle better abroad. But the best men nevertheless, in Russia.
 
Natasha, the reader of site http://www.kp.ru
 
- our men, besides vodka and herring, do not love anything. We, women are tired to live according to the principle: "I am a horse, I am a bull, I am a woman and I am a man!"
 

[Bruno]

Do not know who is Wikki. But you can tell to her to look in the fresh newspapers and statistic.

Wki mean wikipedia, the free online encyclopedie : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page ( english version with more that 1.000.000 article ) or http://ru.wikipedia.org ( russian version with only 65000 article ).

Now, about the myth that you have more women that men, i have make research posted in a other topic... people have critic the result and say that it was maybe true for the whole Russia and Ukraine but not localy... so, i have make the same research by oblast...

In each case, before 35 year old, women and men are in the same proportion... between 35 yo and 55 yo, a very light  % of women more... the difference is really growing after 55 yo...

So, Ste is right... my source was the census statistic from Russia or Ukraine... Official number from your gouverment...

Previous post over these subject... where you can find link to official source like http://www.perepis2002.ru ... 4 year old data but from the last russian census... will be easy for you to read since it is wriite in russian

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=1094&forum_id=4&jump_to=26767#p26767
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=1094&forum_id=4&jump_to=26793#p26793
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=1094&forum_id=4&jump_to=26797#p26797

[Aleksia]

Bruno, the information I wrote was from Russian search engines, which I have been looking today, not from my head and not my imagination.

 

 

[Sponsor]

It's  in the RW's mentality that marriage would solve all her pesonal problems. It's  interesting that in English an expression "to be married" is used similarly for both genders.  In Russian, it is "bit zhenatim"- for men, and "bit zamuzhem"- for women. In reverse translation the last expression means  "to be behind the husband". Do you feel the difference? That's why many RWs believe that after marriage they will be able to dump all their problems on their husbands.

One of the achievments of communist era in FSU was creation of absolutely equal rights of men and women in the society. They also had absolutely equal family responsibilities. These relationships were not disfigured by such crap as feminism.  There was no such idiocy as spousal support in Russia. Only child support.  Marriage in America means voluntary slavery for men. RWs are very well aware of all possible material benefits of immigration marriage.    

I like what RWs say: " The word love was invented by Russian men to avoid payments for sex".    

[swindoom]

Yet another guy who has had a bad experience and decided from this experience to extropolate spurious information and present it as fact.

Women from the FSU are like women from the west, some are bad some are good. It is just as likely that someone will end up with a bad women from the west as from the FSU. It takes patience and intelligence to find a good woman from anywhere in the world, once married the hard work really starts and even then there is still no guarantee that it will work out.