How important is woman's English abilities?

[525i]

KenC asked from PhotoGuy in his thread what he thinks how important English abilities of a RW are now.

A woman who understand and speaks English well has an advantage, because she can communicate with men from USA, Canada, Sweden, Germany, etc. Quite many men, whose native language is not English, understand English. When she finds a man from Scotland, she will have quite a job understanding him. American English is easier to understand than British English, at least for me. Sometimes it might be even easier for her to communicate with a man who is not native English speaker. We do not know so many words than native people and we do not talk too fast, well, sometimes I talk too fast for them to understand. I use words they do not know and they will understand something I said, but not all.

What if this woman finds a man from, say Finland? OK, she can communicate with him, and with most of his friends. She is not able to communicate with his parents. Also, she needs to learn third language, which would be her everyday language for the rest of her life. I believe that this is one reason why English speaking women will choose English speaking country if she has to decide between similar men. OK, this is hypotetical.

If woman understands only basic English like, Yes, No, One, Two, etc.. then it does not matter so much if the man speaks Spanish, Italian, Japanese or English.

Anyway, the woman who speaks English, will have less problems than the woman who does not speak English.

The first FSU woman I met did not understand English much, so our communication was limited and we had some problems because she could not tell me what she wanted to tell. The second woman was Bulgarian and her English was good. No problems, other than personality. Third woman's English was in between (fair plus, good minus) and she improved with time, but in general she was quite quiet. Maybe she talks more in Russian. She liked to say jokes sometimes, but she did not know how to say them in English. If she will find someone from another country, if she wants, she will miss Russian language. She is not actively searching.

I communicated with one woman whose English was fair. Our phone conversations were tough for me, because she did not undersand what I said and she could say only simple things. I told her goodbye.

Then I had two women and both are fluent in English. The younger seemed to lost her interest in me, so it ended. The other one asked me to visit her during our second phone conversation. After few calls more and few weeks later, I booked a hotel and flight to meet her.

In a meanwhile I sent letters to other women and I started to get responses from more than one good ones. I told to one that I could come to meet her in April, and she replied that we could meet in March. I replied that it's too soon, and I suggested April again, if we want to meet after few weeks communication. I live quite close to her. By her letters her English is good, so I believe that we do not have communication problems. I hope she gives her phone number in her next letter.

I also received a response from one woman whose English might be around fair. I will know this soon. I just got her phone number. Her letters are short, but so far I have found interesting things in her. I believe that she is the best of four women I am communicating with, but I might be wrong. And the fourth woman probably does not understand English. I will see this later if this goes somewhere.

I do not know what would happen with others, if I would write my response to them. I also have favourites in one other service, but I have not written to them yet. Maybe I should, so I really could find more troubles.

I have been a "write with many" person. I have also been "write with one" and "communicate with one". This time I am for the first time "communicate with many". It's possible that by summer I have been "visit one" two or more times.

OK, this was partly off topic, but this is my thread, so I can write what ever I want in here ;-)))))

[Bruce]

All I know is that English was essential for me.  I went in looking for any girl who fit my physical / childless / age criteria and did my darndest to learn Russian.  At a certain point I knew on the one hand I really needed a girl who spoke English fluently, yet I could not close off the majority of the girls who fit my criteria.  The reality is if one only looks for translators / girls with A+ English ability they really limit ones choices.  So, most guys have to look for a girl who speaks none to fluent English.  I would recommend a guy finds a girl who at the very minimum speaks some English, so the two of you could communicate on an elementary basic level.  With time, lessons and the right attitude the girl will become fluent enough to form a more than basic relationship.  As far as I am concerned its really a pig in a poke / taking a big chance with a high percent chance of failure to start a fiance visa with a girl you can not communicate well with. 

Even if you can communicate well there are enough cultural differences to startle any girl.  There is the homesickness factor.  Generally, the younger the girl the more homesickness and cultural differences will add to her uncertainty and unhappiness.  This will negatively weigh down your relationship.  Little things would quickly blow up into larger things, without your ability (due to English problems) to diagnose and diffuse the crisis (if that is even possible). 

So, the best thing a guy can do is learn as much Russian as possible, get a girl who at least knows some English who hopefully in a year can be English proficient enough to take a chance on her.  

[Bruno]

No really big problem with language...

My first russian wife was speaking very little in English but have some base from French... that she have learn at school... several women over 30 year old now, have learn French in College... it was a popular language in the soviet time... when she was in Belgium, she have learn Dutch language...

My actual girlfriend speak perfectly English and Dutch... She work like translator in the import/export business... She is sometime in relation with business men from Belgium... so, no real problem...

What make the difference is that myself, i know French, Dutch and English language... some minimal base of Italian, Spain and German language... a few word in Russian but i am able to read it... since my knowledge of other language, a lot of word are similar to these of one of my know language... i forget modern greek from school ( almost never use ) and latin

The big majority of American man are mono language... only english... this is a serious limit with foreign relation... yes, women need to know and learn the language of her new host country... but be able to communicate in a early stage help to build the relationship... and both partner need to work on it...

So, i don't think that the main problem is on the women side, several of them speak more thatone laguage... but US men are limited in knowledge of other language.

some example why knowledge of foreign language help :
in english, tomato... russian, помидор... read pomidor... in italian ( BC ) : pomidoro
other example : apoteek in Dutch and apteka in russian ( pharmacy )... and a lot of more exist...
Knowing several language help to understand a new one...

[ronin308]

To me her understanding of English when you first meet isn't important but her ability and desire to learn it after the first few meetings.  I agree with those here who say that you have to have a common language to build a relationship on.

I knew my fiance was serious when in 2 months after our meeting we could converse on the phone without an interpreter.  Now she's self correcting her grammer and the biggest limit is just vocabulary.  I am also careful to take it slow with her so that she isn't intimidated.  I also correct her and she encourages me to do so.  I'm also learning Russian so in a way I know why she is making some of her mistakes.

We're now able to discuss anything from politics to shopping without much need to consult the dictionary.  We generally have not had many misunderstandings as we make sure each other is understanding what we have to say and if not take the time to clarify. 

I think if you're coming from a country where english isn't the primary language then it can be helpful to start things but eventually they need to learn your native tongue.  For example a met a german married to a mexican woman.  Initially they would speak english but as it's not the primary language for both of them it was challenging so they chucked that and began to learn each other's language.

I think it's important that the woman have the ability to have a basic conversation prior to coming over.  This will aid in her making normal friends and ease the adjustment period as well as reduce the feeling of isolation.

[andrewfi]

If a woman claims to be serious about seeking a foreign husband, but is not actively working to improve her language abilities in respect of her target destination then one has to question her real resolve and motive.

Most women of marrying age, from Russia, will have been taught English at high school and thus, except for the dimmest, should have rudimentary English. (some pupils do German or French) Any woman who has been to university will have had to complete a course ina foreign language, usually English, and thus the same comments apply, except that her proficiency should be greater!

The first few hours and days are the most significant in any relationship, this is the time when people do most of the heavy lifting in communication. No shared fluency, no shared communication. Of course, I wrote this knowing, absolutely, that some people expect very little in the way of communication with their partners and thus can get by with little or no verbal communication. The corrollary to this is that these same people also think they are master communicators...:huh:

It is not so much that English is important as that the language of the target country is being learned. One thing I have learned over the years is that these women DO have strong ideas about where they will end up and in a spooky manner, they are, if successful at all, suceesful at reaching their desired destination. If nothing else it does tell us something about the real motivations involved, but that is a story for another thread. Of course, for a woman to learn a minority language such as Finnish is, unless she lives in Karelia, probably stretching the bounds of practicality a tad, but learning German, French, Italian etc, is both possible and practical, but even so, as 525i points out, English is a useful fallback position.

I live in a country where well over half the population speaks Russian, my Russian is rudimentary and I, for sure, would not countenance a serious relationship with a woman who could not express herself in a shared language. Most sensible women are of the same mindset. Photoguy is just starting to come to terms with the enormity of the issues he and his new girlfriend face.

It is possible only to wish good luck to those who honestly believe that one can have a relationship without shared fluency and at the same time question the quality of their previous relationships if they see their current situation as being better!

 

[BC]

I know our relationship would not have flourished without a common language.  Her english was about a 7.5 out of 10 and even still we had enough communication problems to deal with.

I remember a long time ago trying to talk to a RU woman that could not speak english at a cafe.. I was trying to ask her for the sugar.. tried italian, english, then german: zucker (phonetic: tzukahr).. She turned quite red and I think she wanted to slap me. :?

It's just asking for trouble imho..

[andrewfi]

Many years ago I had a relationship with a woman from Saint Petersburg. Good woman, attractive, fun to be with - she spoke hardly a word of English. Over the course of a couple of years of weekends, certainly much longer than most guys who are married to their non-English speakers.

She wanted to marry a foreign guy, from the US or UK.

In the end the relationship foundered. There is much to be said for a relationship based on food, f**king and fun but one inevitable truth, if one's desires go beyond that animal level, then the relationship can not last. Another point to bear in mind is this; what happens when the woman with whom you have a relationship based upon shared use of a dictionary DOES improve her communication skills in your language and you discover that you do not actually like each other?

[525i]

Of course, for a woman to learn a minority language such as Finnish is, unless she lives in Karelia, probably stretching the bounds of practicality a tad, but learning German, French, Italian etc, is both possible and practical, but even so, as 525i points out, English is a useful fallback position. 

In 2003 I communicated with a woman who was 19 years younger than me. When I called her, I talked in English and she replied in Finnish. She did not understand much, but to me her English and Finnish were equal. She just disappeared one day. Actually she went back to her small hometown.

I have communicated (by e-mail) with Russian women who understood Finnish. It was quite odd for me to write letters in Finnish. When I told to one woman that it was strange that she have studied Finnish, she told me that she did not think so. These happened more than three years ago. Later, Finnish speaking women have not contacted with me. Strange!

My ex-girlfriend was here with me two weeks and during that time she learned some basic Finnish. She wanted to, so she was serious, but unfortunately we did not match. Now I regret one thing. I should have studied Russian with her.

[Jet]

If a woman claims to be serious about seeking a foreign husband, but is not actively working to improve her language abilities in respect of her target destination then one has to question her real resolve and motive.

IMO (which my wife wholeheartedly shares) It is absolutely imperitive that anytime a partner makes the decision to move abroad, that THEY learn the language of their fiance/fiancee's homeland. Everyday life will require them to communicate with more people than just their mate....

It's very nice to be able to speak some Russian, but MOST of us will never have enough exposure or practice to hold a normal conversation in Russian, let alone become fluent. This is the reason my wife suggested that I NOT take the time to learn Russian at the outset.

[philb]

If we are to assume that the unmentioned man in this question does not speak Russian, then basically what is being asked is this; "How important to a relationship is the ability to converse meaningfully?".

I won't go so far as to say that it is impossible to develop a relationship with someone with whom you can not speak, nor would I care to speculate on the odds of its success.

[Bruno]

If a woman claims to be serious about seeking a foreign husband, but is not actively working to improve her language abilities in respect of her target destination then one has to question her real resolve and motive.

If a women have already a target country before have find a fiance, i will have serious question about her motive...

If a women say that she wish only American man... i am not sure that she seek a men but more a way to reach the target country... by the way, a high proportion of scammer are very good in English... they know where is the money and how write sweet letter for make men crazy...

Several women when they register in agency don't already know where they will find the beloved man... a few write "not American", "not muslim", "not colored"... and only some exception write "only Australia", "only USA"... these maily because they have already someone they know who live in these country or because they have already some plan ( not always positive plan for the futur husband )...

[jb]

How important is woman's English abilities?

Not just important, but vital.  Without a common language she is nothing but a pretty face.

[BC]

That's just too awful simple to understand jb..

[525i]

[user=266]525i[/user] wrote:

I also received a response from one woman whose English might be around fair. I will know this soon. I just got her phone number. Her letters are short, but so far I have found interesting things in her. I believe that she is the best of four women I am communicating with, but I might be wrong.

I just ended a first phone conversation with this woman. We talked 1 hour 20 minutes! Her English is good. At one point she started to say Finnish words! She read them from a book that she had! It looks like she could learn Finnish "quite easily". Also, she is interested in Finland and she have high respect for Scandinavian men. After 50 minutes or so, she asked me to visit her in her town. I told her that I am not able to come before June because I am busy at work. I like her and she likes me. Great!

Before I go to meet her, I will go to meet another woman. Next, I will call this another woman. I am busy.

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ It is simply too nieve to imagine that a woman who is signed up with an agency and who is not an active home country scammer has not made a choice about where she is going to go and that the destination is not more important than the means of transport.

Most agencies are aimed at particular national groups of men. Those that are not are almost always presented in English, making it clear that either a choice of destination has been made, or a choice of language - usualy the two will be the same.

It would be very unlikely that a woman seeking, to live in Italy would register with, for example, Lifetime Partners, or Kherson Girls, but there are agencies that serve the Italian market.

525i ~ As I noted, if a woman comes from, for example, the Karelian region then it is quite likely that she might have a passing knowledge of Finnish. If she had worked in Estonia, then the same would apply. It is hard to imagine a girl from Archangelsk, or even Moscow, in the normal course of events, having Finnish as a functional tongue. Not saying it can't happen, just saying it is unlikley and that if she can speak Finnish, there will be a good reason for it, related to unspecified past events in her life. Having lived with Russian girls, in Finland, I know that for most, Finnish is not learned until after they arrive, and in many cases not even then!

[Albert]

On my first trip to FSU (which was for business, not to meet FSU women) one of my business acquaintances there set me up on a date with a woman.  This woman spoke virtually no English, but her teenage son spoke good English and was to go with us.  I thought . . . . this could be a lot of fun.  Actually, the kid was pretty cool and we got along good.  But it was like a date from hell for me.  We walked around an interesting place in town.  The two of them mostly walked behind me, even though I kept trying to get us all together.  We went into museums, the two of them would just stand in the background while I looked at items.  I tried to converse, but she mostly fed him back one word responses.  She never said anything spontaneous to me.  After about one hour, I was about to go crazy and looked for a way to end the suffering for all of us.

So when I started to actually seek out gals, I remembered this horrible experience and had the criteria that I would not meet with any gal who needed an interpreter.  I never require perfect English . . . . just no interpreters required.

Most of the over 155 gals I have met spoke pretty good English.  With 10 or so, it was pretty rough going.  For a while, it can be a little bit of fun with these gals who are just learning.  We play around with the dictionaries and hand held translators, laugh a lot, etc.   But after 3-4 dates with such types, I start to get very exhausted and tired with the dictionaries, etc.  Then when I start to think that this is what life will be like with them for 2-3 years, it just gets overwhelming.  I think of all the interesting things we could be doing and talking about, but can't because of the very limited vocabularies, etc.  It is almost the same as dating a deaf/mute woman.

Life is just too short to have 2-3 years of struggle before the two of you can communicate effortlessly.  Plus, as others have noted, not until the real communication starts can the two of you actually determine if you are going to be compatible.  Romance and sex is never a problem with these gals even where communication is rough, but the other 95% of your waking hours can get to be pretty tedious.

[Bruno]

It would be very unlikely that a woman seeking, to live in Italy would register with, for example, Lifetime Partners, or Kherson Girls, but there are agencies that serve the Italian market.

Too much little market... site in local language have almost no visitor... so, several agency use english, the international language, the internet language...

Some examples : my previous site in English and located in Belgium, Alexia in English and located in Norway...

Take a look at these forum, in english... but several members are not from english country...

My site was in English, around 50% of visitor from US and the rest from all the world... Language of the ads mean nothing about the destination... woman search a western partner... only a few have already choice a country.

[525i]

Andrew, the woman who was 19 years younger than me, studied in Arkhangelsk. The other one was from Moscow. She was working in (Austrian) airline company. Her Finnish was quite good in her letters. Two years ago I saw one message in one Finnish/Russian site and she was a fan of Värttinä (a Finnish folk/world music group). I wrote to her and she replied in Finnish. She lives in Moscow. I was going to meet her during my visit in there, but I did not have time to meet her. I had burned two Värttinä CD-R copies that she did not have.

Sometimes I see ads in our local newspapers where Russian women search a Finnish man. I guess that they live very close to the border. They do have decided to find a Finnish man.

My sister was working in a place where local people visit. Sometimes Russian women visited in there and sometimes they do not know Finnish language. Once one was with her Finnish man, who spoke Russian with her, so he was the interpreter.

Three years ago when I was travelling in north Norway, I was in Hammerfest and I wanted to have a snack. It was outdoors. I ordered my kebab and was going to sit. I saw a beautiful woman and I asked could I sit in here. She was from Brazil. What? A woman from Brazil in Hammerfest! Then arrived her man :-( To my surprise he was a Finnish man. Then he started to talk in Finnish with me, but I continued in English, because I wanted her to join our communication. Otherwise she would have left out. She did not speak Finnish.

I agree with everyone who thinks that it is very important to have a common language. That is English in most cases.

It is almost always the woman, who will move to another country. It is almost always the woman, who will have to learn another language(s).

Last week I saw a program of Chinese men. They do have a problem finding a wife, because in some places there are no women. It's because of the one child policy and because of the value of men compared to women. If the first child is a girl, then she will not born, or she will die. In couple of years there will be 48 million men without a woman.

[BillyB]

A woman speaking English was a must for me. I written to hundreds of women and when when my fiancee said she may not speak English very well on the phone, I nearly dumped her. Her profile said "intermediate". She didn't do great on the phone (4 out of 10) but it was enough and now I can't stop talking about her in my trip report.

[KenC]

It is difficult at best to understand a woman when you share a common language and impossible without it.  Men that get engaged or married to women they cannot communicate with are shooting in the dark for sure.  They deserve whatever happens to those that marry a stranger because they are fools.

KenC

[KenC]

A woman speaking English was a must for me. I written to hundreds of women and when when my fiancee said she may not speak English very well on the phone, I nearly dumped her. Her profile said "intermediate". She didn't do great on the phone (4 out of 10) but it was enough and now I can't stop talking about her in my trip report.

Billy,

Most RW understate their English abilities just because they don't have confidence in speaking it.  My wife was almost fluent in English when we met, but there were still some difficulties in communication for the first few years.  It does get progressively better.  Now after a few college composition classes, she corrects my English.

KenC

[RacerX]

It is difficult at best to understand a woman when you share a common [generation of life experiences] and impossible without it. Men that get engaged or married to women [half their age] are shooting in the dark for sure. They deservewhatever happens to thosethat marry a stranger because they are fools.This whole undertaking is a bit of crap-shoot, but it is a bit presumptuous to cull one element and then criticize it without considering the entirely of the relationship. IMHO.

[Bruce]

Racer - you must be posting on another thread today?  No need for the hostility on this thread.  Its about English.  Calm down, relax and have a good day .

[KenC]

It is difficult at best to understand a woman when you share a common [generation of life experiences] and impossible without it.  Men that get engaged or married to women [half their age] are shooting in the dark for sure.  They deserve whatever happens to those that marry a stranger because they are fools.

This whole undertaking is a bit of crap-shoot, but it is a bit presumptuous to cull one element and then criticize it without considering the entirely of the relationship. IMHO.

OK, Racer, how can you even have a relationship without being able to communicate?

KenC

(BTW, I guess I do deserve to be happily married for almost 7 years!:cool:)

[jb]

This is such a no-brainer,  it should require no further comment, as was said a million miles upstream; "no conversation = no relationship".  How hard is that?