high risk - high reward

[newjason]

I have heard several members say in regards to marriage to a FSUW:


this is a high risk - high reward pursuit

There seems to be a lot of people who agree with this.
I am curious if there is any validity to that statement or is it just a slogan for MOB seekers.

What is the higher reward ? 

Faux Pas :
It's the woman of your dreams isn't it? It's finding her, marrying her and living happily ever after? 

Dave's statement was probably a tad bit misleading as it is the same high risk, high reward with a woman from any country IMHO

Okay,
But is not everything in life a risk?
the more risk i take, the more reward I make?
What is the reward exactly?
Love? happiness?
ok. but those are the same with every available woman, right?
I still don't see what is higher reward.

BC:
Younger, hotter but probably most important the thrill of the ride as the former will wear off rather quickly in the rut of normal life.

Give a man a mountain and he will want to climb it, even if he freezes his nuts off trying to reach the top.  Most FSU seekers are ill equipped and poorly trained, trying to rush to the top just because 'I can'.

 

Interesting.
what is the higher reward versus any other compatible woman?
The thrill of riding a younger hot woman? is that it? 
Yes that does wear off and can be done anywhere.


So, to everyone,  again I ask,  what is the higher reward exactly?

I am not seeing what it is, and what is so worth the greater risk?

Glyden:
There is no real "higher reward", there is a perceived "higher reward" (getting someone out of your league), but it has already been mentioned, it most likely wears off. It is definetly more risky! 

hello again Glyden,
thank you for the truthfull response.
Of course I already knew the answer, but I am really curious why so many have this perception, and where it comes from.

ML:

This is a very misunderstood concept, most often associated  with the field of investments.

There indeed is a risk/return tradeoff or relationship.
But this does not mean that if you take higher risk, that you will realize higher returns.

The correct wording (with an extra word needed) goes in the opposite direction:

If you are EXPECTING (or wanting) to make a higher return, you must take higher risks.

However, the way it works is that you WILL incur the higher risk, but you WILL NOT necessarily achieve your EXPECTED higher return.  That is what risk means.

Likewise, if you are actually earning a higher return, you are involved in a higher risk situation . . . even if you do not realize it.

It is a totally false idea that you will achieve a higher return if you merely take higher risks.  If that were truly achievable, then no one would ever take the lower risk road.

Most often when naive and inexperienced (with respect to the task at hand) people take higher risks, they achieve exactly what the higher risk can provide.  That is a zero or negative result.

So when you hear one of your friends say:  I am going to take higher risks and reap the associated higher returns . . . please slap them in the face.  And hope that someone else does the same for you.

Well said ML,
While I agree the risk factor is not relative to the return reward, Is there something about FSU women that makes them more rewarding than any other women?
In my mind, the answer is .. maybe.. but I want to know why people turm to the FSU too look for women to marry as opposed to say, (random countries) Canada,  the Philippines,  Romania , Poland.. etc

Jumper:
In your examples you are already assuming compatibility in any situation,regardless country,lifestyle ,personal qualities.
while that's a realistic view,

this endeavor  is often perceived as having a higher probability  of finding someone compatible.
(why that would be , i don't know  )
thus the higher risk, possibly  higher reward mentality.

The perception isn't necessarily that  that a compatible person you end up with would be *better*,
its the perception that finding someone compatible is more like;ly, and therefor worth the added risk.

I'm not saying its true,in fact i think its less likely, but  just what I think motivates that thought process.

Jumper
That is a good insight.
So, maybe because it is perception that the beautiful FSU women are younger, and wanting marriage, and are willing to give up life in the FSU to be with a husband abroad, this make it more rewarding?

I agree,  with all of the potential pitfalls of a cross-culture relationship, the deck is stacked against them sor sure.
With the odds being against sucess,  do men think that if they succeed at this , then they are rewarded  accordingly? 


I am beginning to think that the MOB industry are either flat out liars, or brilliant marketing geniuses, or both.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's and during that time my perceptions of Russians was not good. In fact, they were considered to be our enemy. Communist was a bad bad word.  Many popular films and programs portray Russia as the enemy, the villains or the bad guys.
So of course I was raised to believe that they were different and that our way of life was better.
USA vs USSR 1980 hockey gold medal round ....
well after the revolution and dissolution of the USSR,  I had the chance to meet  some Russian people.
What I learned was, that they had the same perceptions about Americans as we had about them.
All of these perceptions were of course totally false, and as it turns out, we all are very much the same.

So with that said, I think it is all perceived and there is no higher reward per-say.
Is it possible that the higher reward comes from within and is a self reward because of all the extra requirements needed to be successful? I think it is. at  least for the most part.
I understand that people from the FSU think that all Americans are rich.
That is not accurate or true to any degree.

If a man had made a decision to turn to the FSU to find a woman for marriage,  what does he expect from their marriage and his wife?

Is it purely a Cinderella story?
What happened to Cinderella after a few years of marriage?  I never saw that in the movie.

if FSU women are better in some ways, what ways are they better?

[GQBlues]

Risk / Reward?

Generally...

The reward is a man going to her home and country and realizing he can date and marry someone above his normal social league averages at home....

The risk is having her finally come to your home and country and have her realize she dated and married someone way below her now normal social league average...

In short, your reward is your improved option while the risk is her improved option.

[newjason]

Risk / Reward?

Generally...

The reward is a man going to her home and country and realizing he can date and marry someone above his normal social league averages at home....

The risk is having her finally come to your home and country and have her realize she dated and married someone way below her now normal social league average...

In short, your reward is your improved option while the risk is her improved option.

GQBlues
Very well put

Wow,
In this scenario,
for a man to gain this high reward would be dependant on her not figuring this out.
That seems rather unlikely  lol.

[IAmZon]

Risk / Reward?

Generally...

The reward is a man going to her home and country and realizing he can date and marry someone above his normal social league averages at home....

The risk is having her finally come to your home and country and have her realize she dated and married someone way below her now normal social league average...

In short, your reward is your improved option while the risk is her improved option.

Amazingly, I could not agree more.  In fact, I posted a little deeper ON THESE EXACT issues recently.  Is this not "social valuation"? But, the dialogue did not go anywhere because I am me ...

I would add to the description of High Reward: Of course it is possible to find a very attractive, educated woman from a good family in other places: Dominican Republic, Colombia, Phils, etc...   But, there is a subservient attitude in the mix.   I find that the same type of women from EE / Ukraine / Russia have a higher self esteem and feel more equal (not gender equality).  Maybe some of you will agree, others will not.

[Gator]

So, to everyone,  again I ask,  what is the higher reward exactly?

I am not seeing what it is, and what is so worth the greater risk?

If you are not seeing it even after having traveled to the FSU, I suggest that you stay with the local talent.    Besides having many qualities which I find interesting and sometimes appealing, a FSUW can be difficult.  You have not been with FSUW long enough to appreciate the difficult part.

[Gator]

Having stated the above, keep in mind that the FSU population is so large that you may just find the rare bird who will fulfill you.  You enjoy adventure, and on average RW enjoy adventure.  Some even embrace dangerous risks.
 
I met one UW who was a serious rock climber.  She had a bad accident once, and spent a long time in the hospital including surgery.   Yet, after her recovery she went back to the rocks and  climbed again.   Too much woman for me.  But maybe a younger version would be ideal for you.  There is a FSUW somewhere who likes jumping off a cliff.
 
 

[BC]

GQBlues
Very well put

Wow,
In this scenario,
for a man to gain this high reward would be dependant on her not figuring this out.
That seems rather unlikely  lol.

Some have tried.  Most of them end up in the train wreck rooms regardless.  iMHO this is often when the controling type personalities come into play.

[Faux Pas]

Okay,
But is not everything in life a risk?
the more risk i take, the more reward I make?
What is the reward exactly?
Love? happiness?
ok. but those are the same with every available woman, right?
I still don't see what is higher reward.

Obviously, there will be many different opinions on this particular area. It means different things to different people.

IMHO, The high risk/reward is generally attributed to those that seek women out of their league.  The high risk begins with the idea of dating a woman from another country/culture. The time and expense required is the high risk as opposed to a local risk that doesn't require as much time or expense.

The high reward is that with the high risk in play, one may very well marry a woman out of his league in age, beauty and intelligence. To which, another high risk comes back into play, can he keep such a woman? My guess is most men can keep such a woman if they were realistic to begin with. Keeping the heart in play but, thinking with the big head as opposed to the little one. Those more unrealistic ones, well many of those are the train wrecks we all know and love.

I don't see any of this as complicated as splitting an atom

[Faux Pas]

Quasimodo can go to the FSU and date beautiful intelligent women if he has the wherewithall and the cash. Quasi can also find one of those ladies to marry him. Quasi should not discount his experience with the local women back home because the women in the FSU have the same basic genes that the local gals have.

Quasi can find him true love in the FSU if he keeps his wits about him. Of course he could find it at home as well. Quasi can easily be fooled in the FSU as he has  been hundreds of times at home. Hopefully he can identify being fooled by now. Unfortunately, many Quasis can not 

[ML]

The higher reward with respect to an FSUW has been discussed here in many threads over time.

In simplest terms it is being able to trade up to a woman that you couldn't achieve (at least within a reasonable time frame) in your home country.

This trade up is mostly in terms of age and slender body.

This trade up is only possible because of currently existing differential economic conditions.  Trade ups will cease when economic conditions equalize.

This requirement of differential economic conditions also dictates which countries you can achieve a trade up.  You can't do it in Norway or Switzerland.

Also this ability to trade up does not mean that the women in FSU are in any way superior to western women (except in the case of slenderness).  These same women exist in the west . . . but each of we men cannot achieve a relationship with them (or at least have such a large selection pool) to the extent that we can with FSUW.

Even though we trade up, it is still possible that loving, dedicated relationships can and do develop.  It all depends on the individuals involved.  But don't fool yourself as to the reason you were able to initially achieve the trade up.

[Misha]

I would say that it is not even a question of "trading up" but being able to date faster. In my experience, dating in my small Canadian city, I could maybe get a couple or a few dates a month. There weren't that many single women and there weren't many single women with a university education or even some kind of higher education. Sure, if I had dated for years, maybe a decade, I could have eventually found somebody comparable to my wife. In Russia, I could easily date every day and when a woman in Russia decides she wants you, IMHO, she won't be as coy to let you know. To sum up then, you can achieve the same results with less stress, less heartbreak and with long dry spells where there would be no women to date at all, waiting for someone new to move to town ...

[Jumper]

Jumper - That is a good insight.
So, maybe because it is perception that the beautiful FSU women are younger, and wanting marriage, and are willing to give up life in the FSU to be with a husband abroad, this make it more rewarding?

Perhaps its more simple even, the perception they can more easily contact and date these women, and the women are indeed interested in marriage.
now again, i'm not saying its true, i'm saying it's often the perception

I agree,  with all of the potential pitfalls of a cross-culture relationship, the deck is stacked against them for sure.
With the odds being against success,  do men think that if they succeed at this , then they are rewarded  accordingly? 

Well now, lol  that's a tricky question?
if the guy was very unrealistic to begin with, then what ever the outcome he is still rewarded accordingly? right?

But to be more forthright, I consider having my wife in my life far more reward than I deserve.period.
Certainly far more reward deserved for simply taking some perceived higher risks?.

Lets remember I don't evaluate true risk ,like most people do (neither do you, it appears)
And then  review what I *risked*
and i'll say i took one of the  paths with more pitfalls in this endeavor than  anyone really needs to.
In my view:
I risked meeting someone for a date, while I had spoken with her long term ,and enough to feel we had a real connection and wanted to visit her and see where it might lead, I still viewed this  as simply a first date, and tried to limit any expectations to that of any other local first date.Traveling further for the date  doesnt change the dynamic, or shouldn't.
If it dint turn out well,  I would have went onto crimea for  nice vacation and flirted with the local talent.
  So go meet some cool chick, if it pans out  fantastic.see where it leads?
If we don't hit it off,  go hang out in Crimea. Which is a wonderful place to visit.
That just seems like a good time to me, not a risk.
I don't find meeting new people that risky, or nice vacations.

The risk a see guys allude to is the extra money or time spent going.
I just cant justify that as a risk? Unless they choose to get overly emotionally invested , have certain expectations that need to be met to deem their *inverstment * worthy?
Or are financially in a position that vacation is indeed risky if it turns out poorly.
but again *turns out poorly* is only if they choose to put that kind of pressure on a first meeting , and have no touristy plans to do, if romantically things go south?

Now turns out we did hit it off, so then the other risky part comes along  right?
I risked having a relationship.which has added complications because of being long distance and cross cultural.
While long distance romance can be  strained, we are both well grounded people who don't make assumptions of distrust if not given reason.So seeing each other a couple weeks every two or three months ,was the  real downside.We did speak in skype (or my world) and phone daily,but of course that's not the same.
After about one year we decided to marry, and that's the real risk for both parties? As in such constrained time frames and with only about 10 weeks face to face you are making a big decision.
Again, I understand the risk involved and i truly believe in the institution of marriage and respect it,
but I guess i'm also a bit flippant about it as well.
As I feel the  reality is  50% of marriages don't end from being lifelong.
So what ,really, in the big picture did I risk that any other person getting married doesn't as well?
Some degree of knowing the other person? or thinking that you  do?
yes!! certainlyBut that's about it?To me that's a  rather intangible % of what goes into a commitment of marriage.

I view it as i risked a meeting,relationship and marriage with someone.
This is a normal risk most people do in their lives at some point?
The additional risk is that we dint have as much face time as a more traditional domestic marriage has.
I don't personally feel any increased risk because shes from another country.  You marry an individual not a culture.I also don't feel their any additional risk to *keeping her*,as that's just an odd mentality to me.
Marriage is a commitment by two people,to each other,  you can only control 50% of that equation.
The other person can at anytime decide that life's journey is another direction for them, or not honor their commitment  for any number of reasons.

As has been mentioned as a concern: Is there more likely hood that once here she might decide to find someone new? That's a rather absuerd view in my book.
1.Everyone is in my league ,not because i'm cool or anything, but  i simply don't buy into the whole
*out of your league* BS, never have, never will. We are all humans ,put or pants or pantyhose on one leg at a time, and at its basics, we generally need the exact same things from each other in a romantic relationship.
2.That view point assumes the FSU woman's ethics and mortals are somehow inferior, or that her commitment to marriage is somehow less compared to people from other cultures including your own you might marry.  Just a weird view. The only part of this view that makes any sense is  that with a short face to face time , her  knowing the real *you*.  That's  the increased risk, as marrying someone domestic you knew for 10 weeks face face would be as well.


Now on her end she risked far more, relocation away from her friends and family, to a new culture and a second language.

I am beginning to think that the MOB industry are either flat out liars, or brilliant marketing geniuses, or both.

Its full of both, and also some big misconceptions on both sides of the big pond,
but the reality is couples do manage their way through it,have happy well adjusted families an a good life. I've been involved twice, just call that double the idiot?
I was married and divorced.It was a decent marriage that drifted apart over long term compatibility.We parted ways after 7 years. cordially.
I remarried, and am quite happy.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's and during that time my perceptions of Russians was not good. In fact, they were considered to be our enemy. Communist was a bad bad word.  Many popular films and programs portray Russia as the enemy, the villains or the bad guys.
So of course I was raised to believe that they were different and that our way of life was better.
USA vs USSR 1980 hockey gold medal round ....
well after the revolution and dissolution of the USSR,  I had the chance to meet  some Russian people.
What I learned was, that they had the same perceptions about Americans as we had about them.
All of these perceptions were of course totally false, and as it turns out, we all are very much the same.

In my experience there, with friends and in laws, more actually liked the west  and dint buy into the propaganda as fully as most in the west did into our own?

So with that said, I think it is all perceived and there is no higher reward per-say.
Is it possible that the higher reward comes from within and is a self reward because of all the extra requirements needed to be successful? I think it is. at  least for the most part.
I understand that people from the FSU think that all Americans are rich.
That is not accurate or true to any degree.

If a man had made a decision to turn to the FSU to find a woman for marriage,  what does he expect from their marriage and his wife?

Well I dint rule out marrying someone from my own country or any other?
So i'm not sure turned to the FSU is completely accurate ,
although I did look there ,so i suppose guilty as charged?

So what did I expect hmm?
I don't feel I expected anything different than I would in any  marriage?lol
Simply someone with traits i admire, intelligent with integrity, and a kind soul, who loves and respects you for who you are,and you them.Corney perhaps? but true.

Is it purely a Cinderella story?
What happened to Cinderella after a few years of marriage?  I never saw that in the movie.

Well on BOTH sides of the pond people often never think much about the more mundane part or life after the nuptials

From what i've swen in th FSU, some are very grounded and fully recognize that better than yiu can imagine.
others would have incredibkly unrealistic expectations.
Again the key is knowing who you are marrying, and with the *generally* short face time,
THAT's the increased risk?

if FSU women are better in some ways, what ways are they better?

if? is a good way to phrase that.  I'd say *different*,but at the base human are the same.
The forum can only generalize, and you marry an individual.
I've had wonderful relationships with western women, *They * arn't  this way, or that way?
so it just makes these type questions impossible to answer.

I'll (finally lol) get to what i think you are really asking?
I think  gems are rare, in any country. I do think there are more gems in certain locals.
Social pressures, tradition, customs and cultures,   play a role in that,and of course ones own personal diffinition of what a gem is to them.
This all really comes down to-
Does the FSU have more gems than the west? (to be worth the perceived higher risk;) )
I think so. I wish I could put a finger on why i feel that way.
You are probably right that really its just a perception. lol
In my case I feel its a  a perception founded in living in multiple countries and cultures in my life, and my observations there in the FSU with in laws ,family ,friends and seeing a lot of really down to earth women, but of course in my position i'd justify that? so consider the source, a western man married to a UW.

[IAmZon]

Jumper - good on you!  One of the best posts I have read in a long time

[vaiano777]

The higher reward with respect to an FSUW has been discussed here in many threads over time.

In simplest terms it is being able to trade up to a woman that you couldn't achieve (at least within a reasonable time frame) in your home country.

This trade up is mostly in terms of age and slender body.

This trade up is only possible because of currently existing differential economic conditions.  Trade ups will cease when economic conditions equalize.

This requirement of differential economic conditions also dictates which countries you can achieve a trade up.  You can't do it in Norway or Switzerland.

Also this ability to trade up does not mean that the women in FSU are in any way superior to western women (except in the case of slenderness).  These same women exist in the west . . . but each of we men cannot achieve a relationship with them (or at least have such a large selection pool) to the extent that we can with FSUW.

Even though we trade up, it is still possible that loving, dedicated relationships can and do develop.  It all depends on the individuals involved.  But don't fool yourself as to the reason you were able to initially achieve the trade up.

I actually disagree with one part. I have lived in Ukraine for three years now, and being an English teacher, I can tell you wholeheartedly that financial means has absolutely nothing to do with the myriads of girls I have attracted.

I assure you that there are plenty of girls in FSR countries are not making their life partner decisions based on economic factors alone. I even wrote a full-length book about it. If you are interested, let me know. I think all of you would find it a good read. I even have a running blog and website.

I lived in So Cal for 13 years and even without a place to live, without a job, and without money, I almost always had girl or two attracted to me in CA. However, here in Ukraine, the question becomes, "Where else can I find girls younger or better looking that are willing to disregard age, weight, and financial or cultural status to be with an average, 41 year old non-wealthy guy? Only here.

[Jumper]

Thanks riv,
I now see a made a million errors typing all that hot air!!  lol


In that post I said i felt gems are rare everywhere, but certain locales seem to have a few more, hopefully increasing ones odds of finding one?
Is the FSU such  a place?  I  do feel  there are a few more gems per capita.
This should naturally increase a mans odds?at least for a local man? 

But add in a a foreigner, involved in a non traditional endeavor, who doesn't speak the local language and unable to understand a lot of the  nuances with his romantic interest interacting with  others,as well as the means in which foreign men generally meets a FSU woman, also and in the economic factors ,and I'm not so sure that his odds of sorting out a gem are better ?
in fact on paper it looks pretty grim?
(even if the percentage of gems was somehow proven  higher)

I mostly think it comes down to the persons ability to read others well, patience and more than a bit of luck.

[IAmZon]

I mostly think it comes down to the persons ability to read others well, patience and more than a bit of luck.

Tonight, I studied Spanish for 30 minutes,, Russian for 30 too - everyday.  I have started learning the guitar two weeks ago too.  My fingers hurt like a Bitch.  All these simple things remind me of one thing = EFFORT, and only EFFORT - a disciplined focused will can create new habits and skills.

Some people call it "work".  I love the saying "The Harder I work, the Luckier I get."

[newjason]

great posts Gentlemen

The reason I was asking the question about risk < > reward is because it seems that for whatever reason, we all have something that is inside us that draws us toward women of the FSU. Not all men have this something, just a very few understand it, and while others can not understand why, I think we all understand that whatever it is, we follow our instincts and go for it.

This could even be defined as a fetish.   a RWF      
lol

In any event, I am glad to be a part of such a group.

[BC]

This could even be defined as a fetish.   a RWF      
lol

More like an obsession.

[newjason]

More like an obsession.

+1
much more accurate.    RWO

[newjason]

Jumper,
I suppose you are correct about how we evaluate risk differently.
My views are something similar to an extreme version of "nothing ventured, nothing gained" mentality.

As for reward...
I don't seek rewards in life per say.  I found that I can appreciate everything in some form or another. Bad things happen, as do good things. There would be no pleasure if there were no pain. I have been with women who I certainly did not deserve, and feel like those times were the greatest experiences and i hold those memories dear to my heart.

How will I ever know what it feels like to fly if I never try? Dreaming about it is fine, but when the dream becomes reality, it can not be compared. I am fortunate as I have never let anything keep me from living my dreams.  Maybe that is a reward, maybe not. It's just living life to the full extent.

I personally find FSU women to be more attractive physically. Of course the accent is very attractive also. I find also outspokenness is something I am drawn to, but I am not quite sure why that is.   Intelligence is also something I find attractive, but that is not exclusive to FSU women  of course.
Perhaps it is genetics, perhaps it is instinct, perhaps both.

I am not searching for marriage, however,  I would be open to it, with the right person.
Does that person need to fit into what I described above? no, those things I find attractive are not requirements, but bonuses.

I do not think happiness should be dependant. I think being happy is something one finds in him or herself. Sharing a happy life with another person, that it is truly an amazing way to live.

[BC]

I do not think happiness should be dependant. I think being happy is something one finds in him or herself. Sharing a happy life with another person, that it is truly an amazing way to live.

And that my friend is a fact very often overlooked in this realm.

I truly believe many think a FSUW will make them happy and find otherwise.

In fact, one's own happiness will attract partners... don't really have to go looking for them.

[Muzh]

And that my friend is a fact very often overlooked in this realm.

I truly believe many think a FSUW will make them happy and find otherwise.

In fact, one's own happiness will attract partners... don't really have to go looking for them.

Now, if you could only bottle that and sell it to a number of people on these forums...

[BC]

Now, if you could only bottle that and sell it to a number of people on these forums...

There is a caveat....

I suppose you are correct about how we evaluate risk differently.
My views are something similar to an extreme version of "nothing ventured, nothing gained" mentality.

This guy jumps off of very high cliffs on a somewhat regular basis.

Jumper on the other hand wears a helmet when it can still do him some good.....

Jason,

Why do you wear a helmet anyway when a pair of goggles would do just fine?

Yeah.. just jabbin atcha...

[Jumper]

couldn't get the vid to embed.. 

[newjason]

couldn't get the vid to embed.. 

that's right.
When I was screwing the camera mount to my bare head, it kept coming loose, thus was born the saying ...
"he has a screw loose"   

 Until someone designs a better camera mount, the video cam is screwed into the helmet.

The same principal needs to be applied to that naked sky diver me thinks.