Tourist Visa USA

[XMan]

I know this topic has been written about a number of times, but here is a very recent example, and it does make me wonder about how decisions are made. 

First, it's not cheap to apply (for a Ukrainian), and if you fail, sorry, your application fee is history. 

Here's the scenario:

Family of three, fluent in Ukrainian, Russian, and English.  Significant money in the bank.  Own an apartment, own a car.  Plenty of financial reasons to return.  One of the three has even visited the USA in the past (though more than 10 years prior).  Had a letter of invitation from an American friend, statements from the bank, other papers.  Spent 4.5 hours filling out all the necessary documents, traveled a significant distance for the interview in Kiev. 

In the end, turned down after about 5 minutes in the interview.  Interviewer never looked at the bank statements, never read the letter of invitation, asked a handful of questions, denied, why don't you try again sometime, thanks for playing, no consolation prize.

The couple they met while there, who could speak no English whatsoever and did not have significant financial reasons to return to Ukraine, were approved.

So I wonder if the better the English ability, the less likely one is to get approved.  After all, speaking fluent English would make a transition easier if one decided to stay in the USA.

[ML]

As you can read on the official Embassy websites; the consular officer is to assume that each visa applicant intends to stay permanently (illegally) in the USA.  The applicant must overcome this presumption.

There are many, many factors that go into this beyond the items you mentioned.

But beyond these factors, there are the bad hair days.

Life is not fair in many situations.

As I mentioned before, my Gal and I held several practice interviews for her student visa (I acted as the C.O.) on Skype before she went for her interview.  And before that, I spent many, many, many hours on the Internet reading all I could find about the interview process, the probable and possible questions, how she should dress, what demeanor she should project, what papers she should hand in the window and which papers she should hold in reserve to only be presented if asked for (you can actually present too much info), etc., etc., etc.  One important point we learned from reading is to avoid long answers to questions.  Give the shortest answers possible without appearing to be evasive.  The more you say, the more ammunition you give the C.O. to deny.  She prepared answers for all of the questions I sent to her and practiced these answers before our practice interviews.  During each practice interview, I also threw questions at her that she had not prepared for, so she could have practice in thinking on her feet.  I  approached this the same way I participate in a hostile corporate takeover situation.  Cover all imaginable situations  and scenarios.  I have little sympathy for those who appear at the interviews completely unprepared.

The key is to practice until you can present yourself well in an unpracticed manner!!!   

But still, there are the bad hair days.

[JayH]

X Man--did they have travel history? Schengen visa countries /UK etc?

[XMan]

X Man--did they have travel history? Schengen visa countries /UK etc?

Indeed they did. 

[BC]

Had a letter of invitation from an American friend

A letter of invitation is not necessary..  Sometimes it's best to keep things simple, providing what is necessary and not what is not.

I think a letter of invitation detracts from the standpoint that the visa applicant should be able to provide enough support for the application to 'stand on it's own'.

I think that is also the stance of many immigration lawyers... provide only what is required.  Going above and beyond that just adds to what can be questioned.

What was the purpose of the visit?  Was the whole family going?  If with child was the visit planned during a time where the child should be in school?

There are a lot of variables in play.

[BC]

Tax papers? Letter from employer granting leave?  Long employment history at the same company?

[XMan]

A letter of invitation is not necessary..  Sometimes it's best to keep things simple, providing what is necessary and not what is not.

I think a letter of invitation detracts from the standpoint that the visa applicant should be able to provide enough support for the application to 'stand on it's own'.

I think that is also the stance of many immigration lawyers... provide only what is required.  Going above and beyond that just adds to what can be questioned.

What was the purpose of the visit?  Was the whole family going?  If with child was the visit planned during a time where the child should be in school?

There are a lot of variables in play.

Whole family, and returning prior to school start date.

The point I was trying to make is that even with all the material provided, particularly bank statements, ownership of car and apartment, etc., the interviewer never even looked at those documents, let alone the letter of invitation.  Once they spoke to him in fluent English, it was all over.

[BC]

Whole family, and returning prior to school start date.

The point I was trying to make is that even with all the material provided, particularly bank statements, ownership of car and apartment, etc., the interviewer never even looked at those documents, let alone the letter of invitation.  Once they spoke to him in fluent English, it was all over.

Usually, before the interview, documents are handed in in one window.  Then after a bit of waiting the applicant is called up to another window and documents returned.  It may appear as if the interviewer did not look at them, but it likely happened in the back, out of sight.

At least that is the way it was both times we applied for a visa for my wife.  They only asked three questions, why she wanted to go to the US, if we had a business together and what type of business we have.

[LAman]

A letter of invitation is not necessary..  Sometimes it's best to keep things simple, providing what is necessary and not what is not.

I think a letter of invitation detracts from the standpoint that the visa applicant should be able to provide enough support for the application to 'stand on it's own'.

I think that is also the stance of many immigration lawyers... provide only what is required.  Going above and beyond that just adds to what can be questioned.

What was the purpose of the visit?  Was the whole family going?  If with child was the visit planned during a time where the child should be in school?

There are a lot of variables in play.

Not sure about that. I filled out an invitation letter for a girl to get tourist visa. She said person who was filing for her told her she needed one( recommended). And at 29 , single and 2 previous declines, somehow received one, multiple entry 10 year visa. Yes, a lot of variables...and luck...and head scratching. Really not much makes sense in regard to who and when one receives one. I do believe it is easier for a russian to get one opposed to say a ukranian or a moldovian......
Also a 25 yr old girl I met in Odessa last year, got a 5yr multiple entry visa two years ago. I have no idea how but i saw it for myself. BTW...her friends did send her an invitation letter. I did not know it was an 'unnecessary' item.....

[ML]

Usually, before the interview, documents are handed in in one window.  Then after a bit of waiting the applicant is called up to another window and documents returned.  It may appear as if the interviewer did not look at them, but it likely happened in the back, out of sight.

With the online application process (that is mandatory now as I understand it), no documents are handed in a first window.

When they call the applicant to the window, they have looked at this online application.  Then they start asking questions.  Some of the questions may give rise to handing across the window some other documents and forms.

[ML]

Once they spoke to him in fluent English, it was all over.

I can't believe the level of English proficiency has anything to do with yes/no decisions.

[Vaughn]

Did the applicants adequately prove strong familial ties? Somehow, that one-third of the financial/cultural/familial equation hasn't entered the discussion. Each applicant should be listing siblings, parents, grandparents, children, cousins, etc..  with whom relationships should be addressed.
 
It's never only about the money. My 44 year old sister-in-law (Russian) has been denied twice but her daughter (21), who has few if any of the three big "ties" - just arrived here yesterday. Go figure. We cannot make sense of past Consulate decisions. When one fails to secure the visa, they rarely if ever get specifics relating to that failure. Keep trying. I've witnessed a few of those "persistence pays" cases where folks are rewarded for such.

[BC]

With the online application process (that is mandatory now as I understand it), no documents are handed in a first window.

When they call the applicant to the window, they have looked at this online application.  Then they start asking questions.  Some of the questions may give rise to handing across the window some other documents and forms.

We also did the online process but still handed in the documents at the first window along with our copy of the application and bank receipt for the visa fee.

We get extra scrutiny since we would be the perfect candidate for trying to bypass the K3 process.

I do know that the online process was quite time consuming, frustrating and often confusing.  I can see where it might be very easy to make a mistake along the way..

I did put all the documents in document protectors that were attached to each other along with a cover sheet showing what was in the package.

It included:

Visa application confirmation
Appointment details
Passport
Photos
Family status document showing who is living in household (a government document here)
Residency certificate (also a government document)
Permanent residency document - Italian version of green card
3 years of tax returns
Bank statement / copy of credit cards
Copy of last visa
Documents showing home ownership
Automobile club card showing travel insurance coverage

Considering the questions they asked, and the documents removed from the plastic protectors it seems that the tax returns were the one's they seemed to be most interested in as it established an ongoing business interest.

Funny though, they did ask why we just don't go ahead and apply for a green card since she was married to a USC..  My wife just said "what for? I don't need one..."

If indeed they did not take the documents, maybe next time just put them all together in one package and try to get them to take it all.

[XMan]

With the online application process (that is mandatory now as I understand it), no documents are handed in a first window.

When they call the applicant to the window, they have looked at this online application.  Then they start asking questions.  Some of the questions may give rise to handing across the window some other documents and forms.

Forms were not filled out online.  Had to be turned in with the paperwork after arriving.

[XMan]

Did the applicants adequately prove strong familial ties? Somehow, that one-third of the financial/cultural/familial equation hasn't entered the discussion. Each applicant should be listing siblings, parents, grandparents, children, cousins, etc..  with whom relationships should be addressed.
 
It's never only about the money. My 44 year old sister-in-law (Russian) has been denied twice but her daughter (21), who has few if any of the three big "ties" - just arrived here yesterday. Go figure. We cannot make sense of past Consulate decisions. When one fails to secure the visa, they rarely if ever get specifics relating to that failure. Keep trying. I've witnessed a few of those "persistence pays" cases where folks are rewarded for such.

Apparently there is no rhyme or reason. 

Yes, strong family ties identified.