Aloe, the desperate housewife

[LiveFromUkraine]

I had conversations in the past with a psychiatrist who enlightened me about the effect of noise and quietness, light and dark on a human psyche. According to him, subjecting a person to unwanted, very loud, and unpleasant noise, is in fact a torture. The psychiatrist was an American man (in case this detail will add him credibility in your eyes).

So in essence what we have is an aggressive guy who is habitually abusing and torturing Aloe, and when she tries to protest - he chokes her.

Quite possible... 

I don't think the guy is trying to torture her with loud music.  He may just like it loud.  It may help him unwind from a stressful day at work.

When I was younger, we liked our hard rock and liked it loud.  We were not trying to torture anyone. 

This is how I see it.  The guy is immature and doesn't know how to handle his marriage.  He only thinks of himself which probably has always been that way. 

Aloe is not happy.  I don't think Aloe was happy before she met him.  She may be taking her unhappiness out on him (without her knowing).  If she acts like she writes here then I would not be happy being married to her.  So he goes to work and comes home to that.

The stuff is escalating and it will continue to get worst if nothing is done.  I think if Aloe took care of her issues she would probably leave him because she will understand she can have a better life with someone more compatible.

I could be wrong but that is my overall opinion based on the posts here. 

[mies]

It looks to me like posters are taking 'Live from Ukraine' out of context.  The way I read it, he isn't condoning beating up a woman/wife.  He is simply stating violence often occurs from the woman to the man. 

We all, and LFU especially, need to understand the effect his very general, hypothetical and theoretical musings will have on Aloe, and how his words will even further reinforce her in the thought that it was her fault all along and that her wonderful hubby was simply reacting to her screaming. I believe all advisers should be VERY careful in the situations like this one.

[LiveFromUkraine]

We all, and LFU especially, need to understand the effect his very general, hypothetical and theoretical musings will have on Aloe, and how his words will even further reinforce her in the thought that it was her fault all along and that her wonderful hubby was simply reacting to her screaming. I believe all advisers should be VERY careful in the situations like this one.

So telling Aloe her husband is trying to torture her is OK?   


Aloe, all the best to you.   

[mies]

That is the important point for her is to see that this is an escalating pattern of abuse that has been going on for years, is not her fault and she should not blame herself for his actions, and is not going to change.

fully agree.

[mies]

He may just like it loud.  It may help him unwind from a stressful day at work.

If he needs to unwind, he can listen to loud music in the car bought with Aloe's money on his way from work, and at home he can wear earphones. Doesn't it seem as the most obvious solution to the problem?

[mies]

So telling Aloe her husband is trying to torture her is OK?   


Aloe, all the best to you. 

Yes, it is OK to tell Aloe what her husband is doing with her. And yes, it is NOT OK to tell to a victim that this is her fault, that her husband is unhappy to come home to "that" and that she has issues and because of her issues her husband acts violently. And this is exactly what are you doing here. You are harming a live person, and your advices can result in psychological and physical damage for Aloe.

It is beyond me how can you justify and defend the attacker and basically a jerk. Human life and well-being is more important that the institution of marriage. The marriage has no value if it causes misery to at least one member involved.

[LiveFromUkraine]

If he needs to unwind, he can listen to loud music in the car bought with Aloe's money on his way from work, and at home he can wear earphones. Doesn't it seem as the most obvious solution to the problem?

Mies, I really don't even understand what you are debating any longer.  I never said he shouldn't use head phones.  You would have to ask him why he doesn't use head phones or if Aloe even asked him to use headphones.  I wouldn't expect him to think of headphones.  Hell, he was going to make her walk so he could sleep longer.

Why does it matter if they purchased a car with Aloe's money?  What does that have to do with listening to loud music and it's torturous ways?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, it is OK to tell Aloe what her husband is doing with her. And yes, it is NOT OK to tell to a victim that this is her fault, that her husband is unhappy to come home to "that" and that she has issues and because of her issues her husband acts violently. And this is exactly what are you doing here. You are harming a live person, and your advices can result in psychological and physical damage for Aloe.

Ok, so now I am harming a person.  Does she hear loud music from my computer?

Nope, I said violence is not acceptable from anyone.  No one deserves voilent behavior.  I have said that many times in this thread.  I even posted a disclaimer of it in a reply to you.  You must have missed it while on your high horse.

With that said, I am bowing out of this thread.  We are going in circles.

[mies]

Why does it matter if they purchased a car with Aloe's money?  What does that have to do with listening to loud music and it's torturous ways?

it has to do with the rest of the story because this is just one more example in the series of how he is using Aloe, neglecting her needs, and forcefully taking from her what he wants.
He wants her money - he takes them, she has no control over HER money.
He wants loud music - he makes it loud, and then louder, and Aloe has no control over the noise level in HER home.
He wants Aloe to be quiet and do not distract him from his "relaxation" - he chokes her.

[mies]

Ok, so now I am harming a person.  Does she hear loud music from my computer?

I repeat again: please listen to my compilation of music, and not on your computer but on normal-size speakers, full volume.
Why don't you want to accept my offer?

[Muzh]

I had conversations in the past with a psychiatrist who enlightened me about the effect of noise and quietness, light and dark on a human psyche. According to him, subjecting a person to unwanted, very loud, and unpleasant noise, is in fact a torture. The psychiatrist was an American man (in case this detail will add him credibility in your eyes).

So in essence what we have is an aggressive guy who is habitually abusing and torturing Aloe, and when she tries to protest - he chokes her.


 "Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."" Amnesty International, 1973 (from Wikipedia)

I wonder if this is the way hubby is teaching Aloe to speak his language?
 

[GoodOlBoy]

He wants Aloe to be quiet and do not distract him from his "relaxation" - he chokes her.

Mies, the really sad (and predictable) part of this whole thing is Aloe.

She will be back to RWD in X-amount of months and tell us that there has been another "episode" and she now has bruises or God forbid a broken bone.

And no doubt, the same people will crawl out of the woodwork and inform Aloe that it is: "partly her fault" or "Aloe and her husband deserve each other" or whatever nonsense...... 
 
GOB

[Muzh]

Mies, the really sad (and predictable) part of this whole thing is Aloe.

She will be back to RWD in X-amount of months and tell us that there has been another "episode" and she now has bruises or God forbid a broken bone.

And no doubt, the same people will crawl out of the woodwork and inform Aloe that it is: "partly her fault" or "Aloe and her husband deserve each other" or whatever nonsense...... 
 
GOB

+1

[LiveFromUkraine]

Mies, the really sad (and predictable) part of this whole thing is Aloe.

She will be back to RWD in X-amount of months and tell us that there has been another "episode" and she now has bruises or God forbid a broken bone.

And no doubt, the same people will crawl out of the woodwork and inform Aloe that it is: "partly her fault" or "Aloe and her husband deserve each other" or whatever nonsense...... 
 
GOB

Who's fault was it when you pushed your wife around?

[GoodOlBoy]

Who's fault was it when you pushed your wife around?

Who's fault was it when you pushed your late wife around?
There, fixed that for you again.


Easy answer LFU.

I take full responsibility for everything I do in my life, the good and the bad.

I would never try to "weasel out" like some others here and blame somebody else for my shortcomings (which are many). 
 
GOB

[BC]

Mies, the really sad (and predictable) part of this whole thing is Aloe.

She will be back to RWD in X-amount of months and tell us that there has been another "episode" and she now has bruises or God forbid a broken bone.

And no doubt, the same people will crawl out of the woodwork and inform Aloe that it is: "partly her fault" or "Aloe and her husband deserve each other" or whatever nonsense...... 
 
GOB

And that is quite all right.  In life, sometimes  hitting 'bottom' is the best, if not only way to get back into constructive mode.  Aloe came here, was made aware of a variety of options.  That's the best that can be done.

I think this thread is about 3 days overdue.

[mies]

And no doubt, the same people will crawl out of the woodwork and inform Aloe that it is: "partly her fault" or "Aloe and her husband deserve each other" or whatever nonsense...... 
 
GOB

Reminded me of the Krylov's fables:
"You are guilty at least in that I am hungry." - "Ты виноват уж тем что хочется мне кушать."

[Leelou]

Interesting read 

Guys, the only true stuff is the following : no ones knows how things are really going in Aloe's marriage.

We read many times posts from her explaining conflicts and abuse, times when her husband doesn't take her needs in consideration, and so on...
We also read her often having mood swings and blaming her environment to make her feel miserable.
Who can really honestly know what are the real true reasons for this?

It might be that all that she writes happens the way she explains it.... It might be she is a psycho over-dramatizing things... It might also be things are worst and that what is written here is just a tiny part of what her husband actually does to her.

The only safe bet we have is that it seems quite clear both of them are having despressive behaviors.
When I read Aloe writing about her life in Russia before moving to Belgium, I don't see anything positive. When someones says "I had no life, was just playing video games and wasting money", I really can't think about someone not being "dysfunctional" in a way. She surely had some signs of depression before being involved with this man. The guy, her husband, seems also to have a lack of sensitivity for his wife. The story about the money, the one about not wanting to help reaching the station, the music stuff, the agression...quite dysfunctional too... It might well be that both of them have problems and marriage is never a cure.

None of us can really know the exact proportion of such behaviors and abuse from both sides. None of us can really understand if those people were really mature enough to marry. None of us can say if they are compatible or not...

There are many organisations in Belgium helping women who are victimes of abuse. If things are the way she describes or even worst physically, she has to contact one of those groups. And she would also need to leave Belgium. When being with an abusing partner, you have to put distance between each other.
Often people who are agressive in relationships tend to become even more agressive when the victim is trying to leave... so if things are really that bad, going back to Russia and find the family back is the best and safest thing to do. Doesn't matter if it feels like "years lost", if things are bad, the first and only priority is safety.

Anyway, I already expressed in earlier posts my concern about her real situation.

[TheTraveler]

So in essence what we have is an aggressive guy who is habitually abusing and torturing Aloe, and when she tries to protest - he chokes her.

that's not quite the story.  this is what aloe said:
 

So after a few seconds of viewing his middle finger, i reached for the glass in front of him intending to smash it on the floor because i was angry. So he jumped up and pushed me to the wall with his hand around my neck and when i was against the wall and choked for a second from his hand, he took the glass and let go my neck...

i'm sure hubby thought she was going to crack the glass over his head.  when arguing with someone and they lunge for a glass/vase/rolling pin, it's usually a safe bet that they intend to do you physical harm.
 
put yourself in his shoes for a moment.  you're in a heated argument with your spouse, and spouse picks up hard object from the table.  what's the first split-second thought that goes through your mind?
 
so in reality, aloe escalated the verbal argument into a physical altercation when she grabbed a glass in the middle of the argument --- despite her subsequent 'claim' that she was only going to smash it on the floor (as if he was supposed to somehow know this).

[Fashionista]

The only safe bet we have is that it seems quite clear both of them are having despressive behaviors.

The only safe bet I have is that I am going to enjoy reading how people psychologize the hell out of this situation. 
 
Otherwise, it's true, we know nothing.

[Muzh]

 
put yourself in his shoes for a moment.  you're in a heated argument with your spouse, and spouse picks up hard object from the table.  what's the first split-second thought that goes through your mind?
 

Kick the living shit out of her??

[Gator]

Kick the living shit out of her??

These episodes can escalate to serious injury if not death.     In my local news this morning:
 
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/police-tampa-man-stabs-girlfriend-throws-hot-food-on-her-face/1249842
 
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/tampa-police-name-two-involved-in-apparent-murder-suicide/1249665
 
 
 
 

[GoodOlBoy]

More consequences for choking "the old lady"  :
 
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-08-30/news/fl-prosecutor-marcus-griggs-arrest-20120830_1_broward-prosecutor-arrest-report-ron-ishoy

Yes, he is a prosecuting attorney!
 
GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

Also, a local radio talk show host (another choking):
 
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-08-30/news/fl-sheriff-supporter-arrested-20120829_1_domestic-violence-political-consultant-radio-host
 
GOB