russian citizenship

[dant244]

Hi all,

 

does anyone know what happen to a woman's russian citizenship when she marries and comes to america.  Can she have dual citizenship?  Does she lose her russian citizenship when she marries am american.  How is citizenship changed with a child who is born in russia and come to america with his mother?  Thanks for your help

[Elen]

A person is counted like  having a Russian  citizenship until he/she would come ( willingly )through official procedure of Renunciation ( or how it's translated) from Russian citizenship in Russian official institutes .  So it's possible to get american citizenship and in the same time keep Russian one.
The same is applied to kids But they in addition have a right to return Russian cintensenship when they reach 18 ages if the lost it due to a dessision of their parents when they were under age.

That't what I'm informed

[Rvrwind]

Elen is correct, they will have dual citizenship if they marry & go to Canada or the US, elswhere I don't know.

Too bad coming this direction that doesn't work. For me to obtain Russian Citizenship I must give up my Canadian Passport!!!! Are you nuts!!! I would have to file for a Visitor Visa just to go home & visit my family. Too bad Russia can't join the 21 century like most of the rest of the world.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Elen]

Why do you think that the problem is only in RUSSIA with your  dual  citizenship? Let your Canada make an agreement with us if you want your citizens would get Russian citizenship without losing Canadian one ( our laws allow that) If Canadian government has no need in that then it's not only Russian blame

Also you may make claims to your Canadian laws abour visas for Russian citizens wich would make your troubles to visit Canada in a case you got Russian citizenship

[BC]

Russia is not the only place where naturalization requires relinquishing your old citizenship.  Same in Germany for example.. am not going to look up all the others but many countries apply this rule.

[edit]  see http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/CIB/2000-01/01cib05.htm#table1

Shows countries that allow, do not allow and allow limited dual citizenship.

[LatinSwede]

That's interesting.  I have dual USA/Panamanian citizenship.  It gives me a false sense of superiority, because I can go into another country and still not be a foreigner.  The upside is when I go to Panama I can set up accounts and aquire property with hardly any trouble.  I've got the same rights as the natives.  Infact I got a Panamanian passport (I only use it for entering and leaving Panama), so I don't need to by the $5 tourist visa like everybody else.  The down side, is when I'm stopped by a policeman and show my Cedula Nacional (national ID card) I'm treated just like a local regarding official matters.  They don't cut me slack because I live in the US.  Back in 2000 the government was taking the census.  Panama is a beautiful country, but with a kind of warped sense of national pride.  Once I got pulled off a bus by a policeman, because I wasn't counted in the 2000 census yet.  It's like "you're one of us sir!. Please get in line to answer the census".  I couldn't leave until I answered the census taker and got a yellow card.  The relatives were teasing me for days after the fact.  Well, at least I don't have to worry about abruptly grabbed by soldiers, because I missed "mandatory military service".  Our neighbor country Columbia has it like that.  Doesn't Russia and Ukraine have a mandatory Army time as well?

[Elen]

Russia has it's own laws about "mandatory" Army ( now according to new law it's 1 year in Army like a soldier, or some more like an officer, or on contract base or in alternative institutes) but only for 18-27 years old boys and with a bunch of exceptions to the rule. So a possability to be abruptly grabbed by soldiers at a street is not an issue. But there is a stamp in your local Russian passport with information  about registration in local military department so if you have some "depts" to them they may call you in any time and in addition it would be hard for you to get an international passport for moving abroad.

So  citizenship is not only benefits but obligations as well ( and first of all an "obligation" not to call a country which citizenship you ask for like "Nuts" )

[LatinSwede]

This just reminded of a scene from a favorite Korean movie called Tak Guk Gi.  It takes place in 1950 (during the Korean concflit) about 2 brothers.  They're out and about in the city, and all of a sudden they are rounded up.  IT was as simple as "You're now in the Army! Get on the train!".  There were times, when they'd happen to find old freinds and neighbors fighting for the Red army of the North.  They were drafted into the ranks as well.  That is when North Korean forces made it's way into Seoul. 

Going even further back, (like in Master and Commander and Horacio Horn Blower) about 2 centuries, The British navy had impressment gangs consisting of an officer and deck hands.  Any male in decent health, (especially in coastal towns or merchant vessels)) could be suddenly grabbed at any moment.  Before you knew it, you were in "his majesty's Royal Navy".  How I love history. 

[Elen]

What have your reminds about "grabbing at streets" to do with Russia?

[BC]

imho it's all about giving our kids choices.. who knows what the future will bring.

Certainly building bridges for them is better than burning them.

I have dual citizenship and enjoy the best of both .. why not?  I would love to have a third and do away with the RU visa hassle. Our son can travel and live freely in the US, EU and RU.. truly a 'world citizen', with as many opportunities and benefits his parents can provide.

[LatinSwede]

What have your reminds about "grabbing at streets" to do with Russia?

There was an article of a young Russian lad in my area that turned 21.  He was no longer eligible for the family dependant when he came with his parents.  He was really wanted  to join the US Marine Corps. I didn't get the follow up on him, but really wanted to stay here.  He said if he went back, he'd have to go into the Russian army anyway.  I guess the movies I mentioned, just reminds me of how different countries have their military obligation inlcuding the FSU.  Thank God I'm not accountable to the Columbian authorities.  Those guys are fighting Guerillas fresh out of training.  Then it's slash and burn burning coca fields!  Panama has been independent from Columbia since 1903.  Thank you Theodore Roosevelt!

[rose]

When I renewed my International Russian passport in the Russian Consulate I asked what will happen in case if I'll get an American citizenship. They answered me that I can have as many citizenships as I want, but untill I will not apply to dismiss my Russian citizenship, they don't care.
My son has here green card. He is 18. In Russia he was "invited" to join army, but since he was here, he decided to decline their offer. They started criminal case agains him. His father brought them documents which prove that he lives in the US. They closed the case. The only problem is that untill he is younger than 28, he can't go to Russia legally. But he can go to Ukraine, and if he wants to try his luck he can take a train to Russia.

[Elen]

Well there is one more opportunity  - even few months in army of other country make boys free from any obligation to Russian militaries

[Goldtop]

Well there is one more opportunity - even few months in army of other country make boys free from any obligation to Russian militaries

You mean Russia doesn't have an all volunteer Army?

[Rvrwind]

Why do you think that the problem is only in RUSSIA with your dual citizenship? Let your Canada make an agreement with us if you want your citizens would get Russian citizenship without losing Canadian one ( our laws allow that) If Canadian government has no need in that then it's not only Russian blame

If I understand correctly what you are saying I gotta say your full of bull.

Russia does not allow dual citizenship, that is the problem. It has nothing to do with Canada at all. Its Russia's choice to allow or not allow it. They don't need an agreement with Canada about anything it is their choice.
Canada does allow dual citizenship which is the same as the US. Imigrants keep their original passport as well as receiving a Canadian Passport making them dual citizens.

Visas are a whole different matter & as far as I am concerned nothing more than money grubbing by the government. The registration in no country works & a lot of the people who don't leave when their visa runs out don't get searched out & deported anyway, so why bother. I know people in Russia who have been here for 2-3 years with no visa & as long as they never get stopped by a cop they will never leave. Same in Canada but there even if a cop stops them he don't know if their illegl or not & even when they are they don't ship them out anyway. So what friggin' good is a Visa? Other than to justify jobs for useless buearucrates.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Elen]

Russia allow ( and admit) dual  citizenship with countries which have special agreements with Russia. So like I said if Canada was bothered with their citizens would have Russian citizenship without lost of Canadian one it could solve this problem  ( like Israil for example) So keep your "bull" for yourself

The USA don't admit dual citizenship but "allow" it as there is no tools in the USA laws which would force people to dismiss their former citizenship.

 to admit dual citizenship means something more than just allowing to keep foreigner passport - it's also about double taxes, pensions, your rights in "criminal" cases, you rprotection and help in troubles when you are at "foreigner" territory

[Elen]

Well there is one more opportunity - even few months in army of other country make boys free from any obligation to Russian militaries

You mean Russia doesn't have an all volunteer Army?
[/quote]
I can't translate your joke ( really) but I meant that if boy served in foreignet army he was free from obligation to serve in Russian Army and would have no problems with travelling to Russia

[rose]

Great!!! In June he'll be in army!!!

[Rvrwind]

Elen you may be Russian but to the best of my knowledge, you are wrong. I & others have been researching this topic for over three years. Dealing with the Duma & only stopping short of having tea with Putin. If you know someone who has dual citizenship in Russia from Isreal or anywhere else, I want to see & meet them, because they could solve all my problems.

Russia does not allow dual citizenship, period. You can argue all you want but I & others have been fighting this for too long. We know of what we speak. If you can point me to these people & the legislation that allows it then I will agree but after arguing with the immigration department & Duma deputies for three years we have gotten nowhere.

They do not need an agreement with Canada!!! A russian who goes to Canada can keep their Russian Passport, is that not agreement enough. It is Russia's decision to limit this & has nothing to do with Canada. I cannot explain that any clearer. I live & work here just like any Russian & am quite prepared to pay taxes & everything, just like any Russian. But I am not willing to forfiet my Canadian Passport. I was born Canadian & even though I for the most part am not totally pleased with the Canadian Government, I am Canadian & proud to be so.

I know many people here from many different countries who have taken Russian citizenship & they all had to give up their prior citizenship, period. Argue all you want but you are wrong. If you can show me people who have succeeded where we have failed then I say 'prove it'. Introduce me to them. Because I will guarrantee you they are holding their second passport ilegaly. Russia does not permit dual citizenship from any country whatsoever & I would be more than happy if you were to prove me wrong because if they accept it from one country they will accept it from all. That is the bottom line.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Bruno]

If you know someone who has dual citizenship in Russia from Isreal or anywhere else, I want to see & meet them, because they could solve all my problems.

Welcome in Belgium Richard

I allow you to meet my ex-wife... for Russian official, she have russian nationality... for Belgium official, she have Belgium nationality...

She go to Russia with her Russian international passport ( renew at the Russian Ambassy in Belgium ) and come back with her Belgium international passport...

Of course, Russian authority don't know that she have the Belgium nationality... not a lie, simply forget to inform them

[Elen]

Позиция � оссийской Федерации в отношении двойного гражданства определяется статьей 6 Федерального Закона "О гражданстве � оссийской Федерации" от 31 мая 2002 года, в соответствии с которой:

            1. Гражданин � оссийской Федерации, имеющий также иное гражданство, рассматривается � оссийской Федерацией только как гражданин � оссии, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных международным договором � оссийской Федерации или федеральным законом.

2. Приобретение гражданином � оссийской Федерации иного гражданства не влечет за собой прекращение гражданства � оссийской Федерации.


I do know what you are speaking about Rvrwind. Now try to understand what I'm about - if you want to get something from others which they don't give you "just so" you should make an agreement with them if you really need it If you ( or your Canadian goverment)  have not wish to make an agreement with Russia ( like Russian laws allow you to do)  then you just don't need what you want

To your inform Russia does have an agreements with Turkmenia and Tajikistan about dual citizenship Well I was wrong about Israil - they asked us to sign such agreement, Putin promiced them but something stopped him

[Rvrwind]

Sorry Bruno But you & Elen are obviously mixing up the concept of dual citizenship.

If a Russian moves to & lives in Canada or the US or yes even Belgium, they retain their Russian Passport & are issued a passport for the country of which they have now chosen to reside. They are considered by that country as having dual citizenship & it has nothing whatsoever to do with Russia & Russia does not recognize them as dual citizens.

However if a person moves from Canada the US or Belgium to live in Russia to get Russian citizenship they must give up their current citizenship. I cannot explain it any simpler. Your lady may have dual citizenship in Belgium but she does not in Russia. As her secound passport was issued by the Belgium government & not the Russian government she is still considered by the Russian government to be a Russian citizen until she gives up her Russian passport.

I challenge anyone to find me someone who has moved to Russia & recieved Russian citizenship without giving up their current passport. A Russian person moving to another country does not count, that is not considered dual citizenship in Russia. I guarrantee you when they return to Russia to visit family they return on their Russian Passport thus making it easier for them to get into the country, so as far as Russia is concerned they are still Russian.

That is the difference. If a Russian person moves to Isreal & gets an Isreali passport & citizenship, they are not considered as Isreali in Russia but are in Isreal. If an Isreali moved to Russia & wanted Russian citizenship they would have to give up their Isreali passport.

I cannot be more plain than that.

My Brother-in-law is from Usbekistan & my wife is from Kazachstan both former Soviet States & both very friendly with Russia, but neither of them can obtain dual citizenship in Russia & had to give up their former passports. In fact my Brother-in-law wants to go home this summer to visit his family & he figures it is going to be a problem because he had to give up his Usbeck passport.

Elen, there are no agreements to sign, It is the choice of the country you are entering whether they chose to let you retain your old passport, not the country you are leaving. Russia cannot be selective & say yes for this country & no for that country, the buearucratic nightmare & hardfeelings that would create are beyond comprehension.

As I said, if you can find me anybody who has moved to Russia from another country & was not Russian before & obtained Russian citizenship & passport without giving up their old passport & introduce me to them, well Darlin' I'll buy you dinner next time I'm in Moscow!!!!

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

 

[Elen]

Repeat once more Rvrwind - I DO KNOW that if persone asks for Russia citenzenship he/she must give up former passport, EXEPT citenzens of those countries which made a special agreement with Russia


Ps to get Russian citenzenship you should pass an exam in Russian language
Use online translator for to get an idea what is there in our laws about dual citenzenship  - bold text is what I try to inform you about

[Rvrwind]

Elen I am well aware of the rules & the test to get citizenship, but this is not Dual Citizenship. It is straight Russian citizenship & you must hand in your old passport from your previous country if you are accepted for immigration to Russia.

I repeat, there is no special agreement. I think you are confusing Visa's with citizenship, two totally different things. Many people from certain countries can travel in & out of Russia without a Visa. Especially those of the former Soviet States & Cuba & Egypt & Turkey. This is not citizenship. Russia does not allow anyone who lives/resides in Russia to carry two passports from two different countries, Russia & any other country you choose. Once you obligate yourself to become a Russian Citizen with all that comes with that you must give up your previous passport.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Elen]

Look can you translate even two russian words ДВОЙНОЕ Г� АЖДАНСТВО  from our law?