How to deal with WMVM dilemMa?

[I/O]

I think it is rather rude to expect someone to travel half way around the world to meet someone the first time and not expect them to make friends with other potential partners.

Yes indeed - and Mrs I/O among many I know would very politely add, if you can't handle rude then *&^% off back to where you came from, nobody begged you to come here.

[SANDRO43]

ML has explained correctly the rules on the indefinite article:

- A before consonants and semi-vowels (W, Y)
- AN before vowels and silent Hs (heir, honest, hour, honour)

The situation is not as clearcut as in other languages due to the vagaries of English spelling (see also http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6383.msg116159#msg116159).

Recently I am seeing frequently another inconsistency, even in printed books (where are the editors of yesteryear? ):

- A history... (correct)
- AN historical... (wrong)
 
The writers of the latter not being necessarily Cockneys .

[Anotherkiwi]

...Recently I am seeing frequently another inconsistency, even in printed books (where are the editors of yesteryear? ):

- A history... (correct)
- AN historical... (wrong)
 
The writers of the latter not being necessarily Cockneys .

Although I agree with your interpretation, I think you're being a little dogmatic by labelling the second one simply as "WRONG."  A very large minority of all English speakers seem to use this variant, and it may in time be regarded as one of those idiosyncratic combinations where either "a" or "an" may be used.  The most usual noun in this case, though, is "hotel" rather than "history."

[Doll]

Yes indeed - and Mrs I/O among many I know would very politely add, if you can't handle rude then *&^% off back to where you came from, nobody begged you to come here.

[Doll]

Yes indeed - and Mrs I/O among many I know would very politely add, if you can't handle rude then *&^% off back to where you came from, nobody begged you to come here.

They came from half of the globe and spent a lot of money!
Then I again "politely" second Mrs I\O," Stay where you are, go dating to the local bar- it will cost you $5 (for two beers) or even less if you arrive there at  a "happy hour"
I hope my grammar is ok 

[SANDRO43]

Although I agree with your interpretation, I think you're being a little dogmatic by labelling the second one simply as "WRONG."

I assert it is WRONG because one has to modify the pronunciation of historical (drop the initial H) to make it work. 

A very large minority of all English speakers seem to use this variant

Admittedly, an istorical is less of an effort to say than a historical - grammarians are fighting a losing retreat battle against common usage, which leans towards ease at the expense of correctness .

Which reminds of another area of frequent confusion: lose vs. loose .

[I/O]

Doll: The staunch defenders of the bonkathon visit many routine have shouted themselves hoarse for as long as I can remember, more often arguing on behalf of commercial interest than they'd like to admit but the bottom line is, there are two groups of guys, those who can afford to visit a lady or ladies on a one on one basis as and when it suits them and those who need to cram as much into a trip as possible. Given the choice, there isn't many women who wouldn't prefer the former. 
 
I've done both but to be fair, at the time, I wasn't looking for a wife and as I said in one of my very first posts here years ago and I'd say the same to our hero in this thread, if you're looking for the easiest way to explain away meeting several women, don't do it - simple.

[Anotherkiwi]

I assert it is WRONG because one has to modify the pronunciation of historical (drop the initial H) to make it work.  Admittedly, an istorical is less of an effort to say than a historical - grammarians are fighting a losing retreat battle against common usage, which leans towards ease at the expense of correctness .

I have no argument with your reasoning, but what you don't hear, not being in an English-speaking country, is that people don't drop the H - for example, it's always "an hotel," not "an otel."

Which reminds of another area of frequent confusion: lose vs. loose .

To be fair, I think this one is only confused (far too often) in written spelling, not in speech.

[SANDRO43]

but what you don't hear, not being in an English-speaking country, is that people don't drop the H - for example, it's always "an hotel," not "an otel."

So they don't even have the excuse of an easier pronunciation ? Amazing to what an extent  people can mangle their own language, even when unjustified .

Maybe looser contemporary education has some responsibility in that - but I belong to a much earlier generation when any equivalent of that sort would not be countenanced at all, and in retrospect I'm thankful for it even though I considered it a pain in the arse then.
 

To be fair, I think this one is only confused (far too often) in written spelling, not in speech.

I thought that was implied, but thanks for making it clearer .

[DKMM]

If you are already writing many letters, did you use an agency?  If an agency, she should know you are writing more than 1 girl and will meet with more than 1 girl.  Most guys who use agencies do this so its normal and she will still want to meet you anyway.  But if you are writing someone many times over months she may get pissed if you act like she's the only one you care about.
If you are trying the free agent route you will weave a tangled web and its HARD to slip that one by.  I did it with mixed success but only by going to different cities to meet each one.
Finally, ask yourself how you would like if the girl you are after still writes with other guys until you decide to show up.  It may or may not bother you but helps gain her perspective.
Bottom line there is no right answer, just a right way to approach whatever path you take.  If WMVM is your path, don't be surprised if you show up and nobody takes you seriously. 

[Anotherkiwi]

So they don't even have the excuse of an easier pronunciation ? Amazing to what an extent people can mangle their own language, even when unjustified .

Maybe looser contemporary education has some responsibility in that - but I belong to a much earlier generation when any equivalent of that sort would not be countenanced at all, and in retrospect I'm thankful for it even though I considered it a pain in the arse then...

Too true!

[Gator]

Finally, ask yourself how you would like if the girl you are after still writes with other guys until you decide to show up.  It may or may not bother you but helps gain her perspective.

Most RW probably do this, so a man should not get his panties twisted over this one. 
 
A better comparison:  "how you would like if the girl you are after...."  can see you only every other day because she is also meeting a bloke from Oz. 
 
I took three WMVM trips.  Only during one of these did I meet RW concurrently.  It was doable but awkward.  And a couple of RW were less than polite.
 
The other two times I traveled from city to city, meeting only one woman in each city.  She would meet me upon my arrival and wave goodbye when I left.   The RW were very hospitable, proudly showing me their city.  It was apparent what I was doing yet the subject was not discussed.     
 
BTW, most RW are not staying home alone before you arrive.

While a WMVM trip can be fun, nothing compares to visiting just one woman with whom you have an emotional attachment.

[Chicagoguy]

A few years ago some guy wrote he was doing a WMVM and while out with girl #2 he bumped into girl #1. Very awkward.
I did the WMVM but never in the same city at the same time. I worked on the principle of - "Don't ask - don't tell"  But I also would not have lied. My wife did ask me after we were married if I had met other women on the same trip as when I first met her. She suspected. And I told her yes and she then wanted to know who they were and to see their pictures. I complied and that was the end of it.

[JohnDearGreen]

Are these women so insecure in a competitive environment that they need this kind of commitment before meeting?

Some, but there are various possibilities.  Never bet on the other persons game....unless it is also your game.  Sounds like you haven't decided what your game plan will be yet. 


If she gives too much static, just get her contact info and cold call her when you get there.  Even contact those who declined to meet you.  If she is seriously looking for someone like you, most likely she might be willing to meet you.


She might fall into one of the following categories.  Don't burn any bridges, go after all of them, then decide later which one(s) you like.

• She just plain doesn't want to deal with the VM type.
• As you mentioned, she might think her chances are so slim in a VM situation that her only viable option is to negotiate a better situation.
• She is confident, smart, & thinks her changes are good (but yours might not be), and as always trys to intelligently negotiate the best deal for herself.
• It is just her natural personality to be pushy and always want things her way.
• She likes you very much (after a good amount of communication) and naturally would not want you to see someone else. 

[DKMM]

A few years ago some guy wrote he was doing a WMVM and while out with girl #2 he bumped into girl #1. Very awkward.

]
 
Happened to me but I'm not sure if I wrote about it here or not.  I did not like either one of them though so it was no big loss, but would have been bad if I did like #1.
 
You should understand that the whole point of WMVM is to get meetings face to face.  Its like sending out resumes for a job interview, you are using the resume to get the interview not the job.  Same for emails before you arrive, its all about setting up the meeting.  The hard part is when you know you found the one and having to change your itinerary (and cancel remaining meetings). 

[I/O]

My wife did ask me after we were married if I had met other women on the same trip as when I first met her. She suspected. And I told her yes and she then wanted to know who they were and to see their pictures.

Lol, so much for them not wanting to know about your previous conquests - it pretty much sums up my experience.
 

A better comparison:  "how you would like if the girl you are after...."  can see you only every other day because she is also meeting a bloke from Oz. 

Gator, if what you keep eluding to is correct, she would probably be incapacitated or at least recovering on 'every other day'.
 

I took three WMVM trips.  Only during one of these did I meet RW concurrently.  It was doable but awkward.  And a couple of RW were less than polite.

Yeah, been there, done that - not fun.
 

The other two times I traveled from city to city, meeting only one woman in each city.  She would meet me upon my arrival and wave goodbye when I left.   The RW were very hospitable, proudly showing me their city. 

That was pretty much my MO.   
 

BTW, most RW are not staying home alone before you arrive.

Exactly, but a handful are and IMO, therein lies the art. You should figure out in the first couple of emails if she is a dater or a waiter. If she's the latter, she's entitled to be treated on a one on one basis IMO.
 

While a WMVM trip can be fun, nothing compares to visiting just one woman with whom you have an emotional attachment.

I could not agree more and am continually reminded of this fact every afternoon when I walk in the door at home.
 
 
 

[CanadaMan]

 
 
BTW, most RW are not staying home alone before you arrive.

It should also be pointed out that more than a few RW are taking a different tack today.
I have written to several women who were not interested in going the e-mail/phone/Skype route.

They simply gave me their contact info and said call me when you arrive!

That greatly simplifies the WMVM approach. 

[Globetrotter]

Well, you know best.  I have always had a "written relationship" for anyone I had ever met, and there was never a surprise when we did meet.  Everyone has their comfort zone, and know exactly what they are willing to give, and what they are willing to accept upon meeting.  I think that those who are most "hungry" are most willing to give the most!  If you are one of these people...than give...........but, then accept that these girls will recognise this, and demand things of you that you would not be willing to give to local girls.  Actually, it's pretty basic.  There are some who will take "tweenies" although they are much older, and these guys feel luckier than most, but are only a train wreck about to happen with the hourglass draining!
Nobody knows you, only you know you.  Your smarts, you past relationships with women, your needs, your wants, what you are willing to accept...all come into play.
Anyway, only you know best, depending upon your past experience, and your skills'
 
Good Luck.

[GoodOlBoy]

I have written to several women who were not interested in going the e-mail/phone/Skype route.

They simply gave me their contact info and said call me when you arrive!

 
To each their own, but I have been on waaaay to many "blind date" disasters (psycho/nut jobs) right here in the GoodOl' USA.
 
I damn sure wouldn't fly thousands of miles to another continent to suffer the same deal over there. 
 
GOB

PS.... I won't go into any details here, but I had to tell one American "lady" that she was a psycho. She replied: "You men make us this way!". 

[Gator]

It should also be pointed out that more than a few RW are taking a different tack today.
I have written to several women who were not interested in going the e-mail/phone/Skype route.

Very pragmatic approach, perhaps developed after spending months corresponding with keyboard Romeos who never made the trip.

When you make your trip, some of these RW will probably not be available.   Nevertheless, you should be able to meet many RW and hopefully one or two will warrant a followup trip.

[Gator]

Well, you know best.  I have always had a "written relationship" for anyone I had ever met, and there was never a surprise when we did meet. 

My best meetings were with RW whom I had spent enough time in correspondence, phone and Skype to feel some connection.  Neverthless, there were surprises, both to the downside and upside.

Everyone has their comfort zone....

Exactly,.  We all differ just as much as the RW we pursue differ.

[ML]

It should also be pointed out that more than a few RW are taking a different tack today.
I have written to several women who were not interested in going the e-mail/phone/Skype route.

They simply gave me their contact info and said call me when you arrive!

That greatly simplifies the WMVM approach. 

I only encountered a very few who did not want to correspond and said call when you arrive.

I refused to go that route as the vast majority of the gals were willing to spend the time in 6 weeks of weekly correspondence.

I understand that some of them had been in long correspondence before that led to nowhere . . . but to me that is the risks that we both take.

No willingness on their part to spend some time in correspondence, then no meetings with me.

I know I am a cut (maybe several) above the 'standard guy' that most of these gals are contacted by . . . and if a gal cannot perceive that from my initial contact emails and profile, then I think they probably aren't that smart anyway . . . or they are just so jaded by the process that they wouldn't make a good mate.

There can be a point at which an individual gal involved in this process has just been at it too long, and only has negative feelings about the guys who contact her.  She then takes on a persona that is unlikely to lead to success.

The same perhaps can be said of the guys involved.

But, as others have already mentioned . . . we can all be very much different in what works for us.

[Eduard]

Such women consider themselves logical.     However, I agree with you.
 
Keep in mind that if a man romances a woman for months  and communicates frequently, he could rouse some feelings an develop high expectations.  Another point, many RW believe in destiny, and as such would not consider being one of 10 as destiny.
 
Thus, if a man elects to do WMVM, he should keep correspondence to a minimum (e. g., a few phone calls to determine if there is enough compatibility to warrant a meeting).

This are very good points, although personally, if I was looking, I wouldn't fly across the ocean unless I had developed a good connection first.

[missAmeno]

Are these women so insecure in a competitive environment that they need this kind of commitment before meeting?

Lets imagine situation ... 

You and me meet on dating site and we exchange emails and chat on skype for few months. Obviously we dont do this from boredom but because we like and attracted  to each other to some extend. Both of us feel there is chance that perhaps it could become something more and we should have a real date. As I have vacation coming up I decide to come and visit you but then I explain you that we gonna have only few days together and then I gonna go visit few other guys and see if I like any of them more then you, perhaps any of them more handsome and sexy then you, perhaps some of them will treat me better then you or perhaps any of them have personality that more suited to me then yours. How would you feel? ... ... still attracted to me?  or thinking what for I been wasting my time talking with her at all? But lets imagine as well that for some reason you decide to go ahead with it (could be due to desperation, or being attracted to me so much, or boredom, or whatever else). And  so I come to see you, then I meet some John, James, Tom, Brian, etc. After all the mettings I decide you are the best for me. Do you still want me after that? Common surely you are secure enough in yourself to wait till I go through all my options to decide if you are any good for me.
And last question: is it really matter if I tell you that I am going to see some John, James, Tom, Brian, etc or you know it without me telling it to you?


Edit: I dont have issues with whatever arrangments (WOVO, WMVO, WMVM) guys go (simply because it doesnt effect my personal life in anyway  ) and I can understand reasons guys go for either of those arrangments. But also I can understand girls position/views on those arrangments. Bottom line is that many girls (and guys as well if put in those shoes) would feel degraded and disrespected if while they are genuine interested in/attracted to a guy, he goes around through all options deciding which one is better for him.
If you are planing to do WMVM be straightforward about it, girls have a right to decide for themselves if they want to meet guy on such condiitions or not.

[newjason]

If I am in a place where singles are abundant, I will scan the room and when I see a woman that catches my eye, I say whoa and focus my attention on her. If the eye contact is met wtth a smile or a repeated sneaking a peek, I will approach her and say hi. It usually goes well from there....
In fact,  It has almost always led to something very nice and long lasting.

I don't know where you are harvesting your contacts from, I suppose it doesn't really matter much, but consider this:

By using this method you are proposing,
You are using a players game.

By that I mean,  a player is a guy who (traditionally)  hits on  many women and is not discouraged when he is turned down. He simply walks up to then next one, next one, next one until he finds one that says yes.  By using this method, he stands a better chance of going home with A woman than a guy who will not imagine doing this.

Using this method for finding a wife may be a double edged sword. Here is why:
By playing the feild and letting these contacts know that up front, you will effectivly weed out the pro daters and pocket pickers for the most part, because a pro knows that others will be picking your pockets too and the chance of cleaning you out after the others have got to you is not so good.
Thus, a girl knows that you are player and it's hard to play a player.
On the other hand, the serious and honest girls know you are a player and most of the time that is not going to make you seem special, or make them feel special.
It will appear that you are in a hurry and that you prefer quantity over quality.

  ++1 to MissAmeno and her words of wisdom.

Speed dating as many girls as you can is going to be tough and very distracting.
It is not for everyone, and It is not for me.
 
That is how I see it.
But I am just a peanut in the gallery 
and a romantic.

So whatever you decide to do, let us know how it words out.
Cheers