Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[Belvis]

IMO the Russians in general still live by the rule "The party has ordered the people have answered "yes" "Партия сказала, народ оветил - Есть" That's why they will not see the political issues.

Olga, it seems you like to dress in  dissedent clothes . Too late, it would be approapriate to perform while being in Russia.
As regards the girls, I agree the sentence is disproportionate. But it's not the local case, it's reflection of problems in judicial system where reforms are stalling. Many thousand russians are serving years for negligible crimes, I hope the Pussy Riot case will draw attention to them too.

[TheTraveler]

Traveler,

Have you ever been to a Russian Orthodox service?

yes... both in russia and in the us.

[tfcrew]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nadezhda_Tolokonnikova_%28Pussy_Riot%29_at_the_Moscow_Tagansky_District_Court_-_Denis_Bochkarev.jpg

[TheTraveler]

I am not outraged, but Orthodox is part of my background, I see blasphemy and religious hatred where  you do not see it.

blasphemy is making insult to god.  as far as i can tell, the pussy riot girls did not insult god.  they did protest patriarch kirill's support of putin.  that's not 'blasphemy', since kirill is only a man and not god.

your post above (the one where you declare your opinion that god does not exist) however is a good example of 'blasphemy' -- certainly more blasphemous than the pussy riot girls' song/prayer.

(btw, i'm not implying that your insult to my belief in god should result in you going to jail.  i'm just exposing what i appear to be hypocrisy.)

[Ranetka]

blasphemy is making insult to god.  as far as i can tell, the pussy riot girls did not insult god.  they did protest patriarch kirill's support of putin.  that's not 'blasphemy', since kirill is only a man and not god.

your post above (the one where you declare your opinion that god does not exist) however is a good example of 'blasphemy' -- certainly more blasphemous than the pussy riot girls' song/prayer.

(btw, i'm not implying that your insult to my belief in god should result in you going to jail.  i'm just exposing your hypocrisy.)

OK.

[Ranetka]

blasphemy is making insult to god.  as far as i can tell, the pussy riot girls did not insult god.  they did protest patriarch kirill's support of putin.  that's not 'blasphemy', since kirill is only a man and not god.

your post above (the one where you declare your opinion that god does not exist) however is a good example of 'blasphemy' -- certainly more blasphemous than the pussy riot girls' song/prayer.

(btw, i'm not implying that your insult to my belief in god should result in you going to jail.  i'm just exposing your hypocrisy.)

Just checked your posts back to see who thinks I am being hypocritical. We have very different opinions on pretty much any issue, it is not much point having any discussion, just too far out.


Wanted to add: I am sorry if me being an atheist is insulting to you. You are free to worship whatever you like, does not bother me at all.

[BC]

yes... both in russia and in the us.

I can't recall current events ever being mentioned at Divine Liturgy.

[TheTraveler]

I can't recall current events ever being mentioned at Divine Liturgy.

you surmised, from my question, that i seriously thought ranetka attended russian orthodox mass?
 

[mendeleyev]

Misha:

I have no doubt that Khodorovsky's sentencing was also not the sole doing of a judge.

On this I'm in strong agreement with Misha and others. Khodorkovsky and Platon Lebedev are political prisoners.

[OlgaH]

they did protest patriarch kirill's support of putin.  that's not 'blasphemy', since kirill is only a man and not god.

Absolutely agree with you. Kirill and others in the company are just people, mortal people with their own sins. They like good food, good vodka and good wine, they don't mind to sing "Batka Makhno" after couple of glasses or bottles  They do like the beautiful expensive cars along with other things. The marry and divorce and remarry, they don't mind to flirt winking and whisper in  a woman's ear that they are glad to forgive any  of her sins at any time during the day or night  Time to time some drunk monks beat the shit out of each other and even shoot each other.

It is like a big money making corporation... A system inside one big system. While they are condemn Judah they screw each other for 30 pieces of silver, for a better and higher position. They also screw outside businesses when they don't pay for ordered services... and businesses have to haunt the court's threshold to get their money back for years...

Pretty much as you said they are just men and not gods... as Vissarion Belinsky wrote in his time: a Russian man crosses himself with his right hand and at the same time he scratches his butt with his left hand.

In 2008 drunk Holy Father Valery killed 45 y.o mother of two children in the car accident in Perm. He even tried to pay off and offered 7,000 rubles to the family... later 25,000 rubles. The family refused his money. He got just 2 years probation... and was deprived of his driver license for 6 months...  he did not went to jail...


(Video 2011) Drunk Holy Father Fedor... his drunk accident did not interfere with his career... He was a dean of one church and he became a dean of three churches.



31 July, 2012 Drunk Father Superior Timophey caused a car accident in Moscow driving his BMW Z4...

[OlgaH]

Interesting interview with the deputy dean of The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour, arcipreste Mikhail Ryazantcev (August 16, 2012)

the building of The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour belongs to the city of Moscow, the city hall is the owner of The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour

the presence of the church itself inside the building is not official, its presence in the building is not executed in the documents.

http://www.pravmir.ru/tak-kto-zhe-torguet-v-xrame-xrista-spasitelya/

[Misha]

In 2008 drunk Holy Father Valery killed 45 y.o mother of two children in the car accident in Perm. He even tried to pay off and offered 7,000 rubles to the family... later 25,000 rubles. The family refused his money. He got just 2 years probation... and was deprived of his driver license for 6 months...  he did not went to jail...

A good example Olga. A priest kills a mother of two children, gets two years probation. Three young women hurt the "feelings" of a few churchgoers and get two years in prison. Yet, somehow, I am supposed to believe that the trial and the sentencing of the three young women of Pussy Riot was not politically motivated?!? 

[BC]

Laws providing penalties for drunk drivers who kill allow for vast judicial discretion.  As a result, offenders may receive days in jail followed by probation or in very rare instances—a life sentence.   

http://www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdf

http://murrieta.patch.com/articles/murrieta-woman-gets-probation-in-dui-crash-death

http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/02/02/accused-dwi-killer-gets-probation-for-death-of-six-year-old-zhaneya-butcher/

[Shadow]

A good example Olga. A priest kills a mother of two children, gets two years probation. Three young women hurt the "feelings" of a few churchgoers and get two years in prison. Yet, somehow, I am supposed to believe that the trial and the sentencing of the three young women of Pussy Riot was not politically motivated?!?

Indeed their lawyers and those behind it have done their utmost best to make it a political trial, and it seems their efforts were rewarded, at the expense of three young girls who can only hope that their fame will last longer as their prison sentence.

[BC]

Indeed their lawyers and those behind it have done their utmost best to make it a political trial, and it seems their efforts were rewarded, at the expense of three young girls who can only hope that their fame will last longer as their prison sentence.

If indeed a fine was offered to resolve the issue and the defendants decided to proceed to further politicize by going to court, it's asking for trouble.  According to some reports they were pleased with their sentence.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-04/local/me-7727_1_abortion-opponents

Abortion opponent Connie Youngkin began serving a 60-day sentence Thursday at Las Colinas Jail in Santee for trespassing at a La Mesa abortion clinic.

I think she was also fined and had to pay for some plants that were damaged.  It seems this was all done outside the clinic.

Were her rights to free speech infringed upon?

Certainly there are limits to what one interprets as 'free speech', especially when it infringes on the freedoms of others.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

The law is the law...

Pussy Riot protesters arrested in Marseille

Several people protesting peacefully in Marseille against the trial of the Russian punk band Pussy Riot were detained by police for wearing balaclavas, under France's controversial law that bans Muslim niqabs and all face-coverings from public places.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/19/pussy-riot-protesters-arrested-marseille

They'll only pay a 150 EUR fine, but still shows that each country can have it's own laws.

How about 1500 political prisoners in China?  Don't see much fuss about that in the news lately.

http://www.cecc.gov/pages/victims/20101010_PPD_AR10.pdf

[Misha]

Indeed their lawyers and those behind it have done their utmost best to make it a political trial, and it seems their efforts were rewarded, at the expense of three young girls who can only hope that their fame will last longer as their prison sentence.

Yes, and the result did show that political protest critical of Putin will not be tolerated. It does not bode well IMVHO for the future of Russia...

[Shadow]

Yes, and the result did show that political protest critical of Putin will not be tolerated. It does not bode well IMVHO for the future of Russia...

The result showed that if you wish to hold a mockery trial you will be punished to the maximum extent. Which I believe is a good thing.

[OlgaH]

Yes, and the result did show that political protest critical of Putin will not be tolerated. It does not bode well IMVHO for the future of Russia...

Misha, yes.

The girls had an option to bend in front of Putin and Kirill officially asking for forgiveness. They refused to bend.  More than 100 cultural famous workers signed and published appeal to stop the trial, but it was dismissed by Putin's court.

Yes, Putin's court and justice is a mockery, where verdict guilty made in advance and the trial itself is only a show ran by corrupted system.

[Misha]

The result showed that if you wish to hold a mockery trial you will be punished to the maximum extent. Which I believe is a good thing.

The Stalinists said the same thing way back when 

[Muzh]

Ok, for those who don't believe in God and don't go to church and don't understand other people's feelings. Let me put it this way. Imagine that your family member has died and you are having a funeral ceremony. In the middle of it you can see pussy riot jumping on the casket singing their songs or having sex with a frozen chicken. Nothing is destroyed.

Would you consider that to be an offense? Or it's just fine with you?!

I'm sorry, but that is a straw man argument. You know what that is, yes?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Muzh]

In this case this board should support the judge, there is not curse harsher than Feminist on RWD...:-)

More straw.

[Muzh]

These girls are on the bad way , if you pay attention to their age it's even worse, because at this age they are supposed to have some wisdom. Their parents obviously failed at raising them good people, so the country has to do it now, and I do think that 2 years is a lot but I don't think that a simple fine would prevent them from doing what they do now.
 

Absolutely!! How dare they think for themselves and have an opinion. Shame, shame.
 

They  can't be worse than they are now, so hopefully life in prison will teach them something new. I will not be surprised if many years later some of them will understand what they did and will end up with being a nun.

Nothing that a good corporal punishment shouldn't cure, eh? As I said earlier, a shot in the back of the head should suffice.
 

the good thing is that the kids will not be raised by immature irresponsible  moms for 2 years' time.

Good thing. Let the state raise the children properly. Under the guidance of good ol' Uncle Joe.

After cases like that when moms are sacrificing their little kids for orgias in churches and supermarkets you really start believing in God and devil.

Actually, believeing in superstition is more likely.

[Ranetka]

More straw.

That was acutally a joke.

[Muzh]

My apologies, then.

[Shadow]

Misha, yes.

The girls had an option to bend in front of Putin and Kirill officially asking for forgiveness. They refused to bend.  More than 100 cultural famous workers signed and published appeal to stop the trial, but it was dismissed by Putin's court.

Yes, Putin's court and justice is a mockery, where verdict guilty made in advance and the trial itself is only a show ran by corrupted system.

If you run through a red light and refuse to pay the fine, the Court will also let you pay more. There was an option to end it without making a public display by simply telling they apologise for doing something inappropriate.
Someone misguided them telling that by international pressure they will get off with no punishment. That are the same people who are now asking for petitions and sending press statements around the world.
Its ok if you are once again guided in to the usual rants of Putin being Satan, he will not sleep a moment less as he is very much aware where this comes from.
The girls in jail are the victims indeed. Not of Putin, but of those who mislead them in to taking the high profile road for their own propaganda.