Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[Misha]

Someone misguided them telling that by international pressure they will get off with no punishment.

No, they had enough integrity and belief in what they do to risk going to jail for their beliefs and actions. They should certainly be applauded. Play the "foreign" propaganda card if you will, but there is nothing to suggest that what you have stated is true, but of course Putin et al. love to demonize the idea of foreign influence...

The girls in jail are the victims indeed. Not of Putin, but of those who mislead them in to taking the high profile road for their own propaganda.

They are in jail IMVHO because the Russian state has been adopting laws these past years making it easier and easier to jail people who oppose and protest the government in power. They have succeeded at this task, and the women were a trial case by the powers that be in Russia to demonstrate that they can and will jail those who have the audacity to speak out too loudly against the Putin's power.   

[Shadow]

No, they had enough integrity and belief in what they do to risk going to jail for their beliefs and actions. They should certainly be applauded. Play the "foreign" propaganda card if you will, but there is nothing to suggest that what you have stated is true, but of course Putin et al. love to demonize the idea of foreign influence...


They are in jail IMVHO because the Russian state has been adopting laws these past years making it easier and easier to jail people who oppose and protest the government in power. They have succeeded at this task, and the women were a trial case by the powers that be in Russia to demonstrate that they can and will jail those who have the audacity to speak out too loudly against the Putin's power.

I already understood you took the bait. Hook, line and sinker.
Guess that the people behind it do not care about 3 girls being jailed for 3 years, when an apology would have been enough.
But yeah, you can not get an international scandal out of an apology, for that you need to offer some people, preferrably some who are expendable like an unimportant punk band that has no future anyway.

[OlgaH]

If you run through a red light and refuse to pay the fine, the Court will also let you pay more. There was an option to end it without making a public display by simply telling they apologise for doing something inappropriate.
Someone misguided them telling that by international pressure they will get off with no punishment. That are the same people who are now asking for petitions and sending press statements around the world.
Its ok if you are once again guided in to the usual rants of Putin being Satan, he will not sleep a moment less as he is very much aware where this comes from.
The girls in jail are the victims indeed. Not of Putin, but of those who mislead them in to taking the high profile road for their own propaganda.

Shadow, it depends on what do you mean saying "something inappropriate". IMO the song itself is very propitiate describing nowadays problems in Russia: Corrupted Government and Corrupted Church as well.

The place? I agree it was their silly mistake.  But take into account that the Cathedral even doesn't belong to the Church, but belong to the City and open for public, and the Church inside even is not formalized in the documents... question is how they do perform their religious services if they are not officially documented inside the building?

Oh, well it is Russia.

If you run through a red light and refuse to pay the fine, the Court will also let you pay more.

How about drunk officials who kill the people and actually go unpunished?

[Misha]

I already understood you took the bait. Hook, line and sinker.
Guess that the people behind it do not care about 3 girls being jailed for 3 years, when an apology would have been enough.

An apology to whom? The women apologized to Russian Orthodox believers, but refused to apologize to the Patriarch and Putin. Why should they have apologized to Putin?

But yeah, you can not get an international scandal out of an apology, for that you need to offer some people, preferrably some who are expendable like an unimportant punk band that has no future anyway.

Expendable people?!? I do not believe in "expendable people." And, who are you to judge that they have no future?!?

[OlgaH]

I already understood you took the bait. Hook, line and sinker.
Guess that the people behind it do not care about 3 girls being jailed for 3 years, when an apology would have been enough.
But yeah, you can not get an international scandal out of an apology, for that you need to offer some people, preferrably some who are expendable like an unimportant punk band that has no future anyway.

Yes, Shadow, to attract the public attention to the political, social, economic problems in the country where media is controlled by the government, and to move the corrupted system and the country from the dead point you have to make the scandal... and better the international scandal. Apologies to the corrupted leaders will not help.

During the soviet time people who did care about human rights and freedoms also tried to make scandals. You can read about them and how the Soviet government tried to break them... It is not different now.

[Ranetka]

Olga,


one of there previous performance acts was having group sex on public display in Botanical (I think) Museum. What do you think, was it anti-Putin or anti-church protest?

[OlgaH]

Olga,


one of there previous performance acts was having group sex on public display in Botanical (I think) Museum. What do you think, was it anti-Putin or anti-church protest?

would you be so kind to give me the link to the video?

[Ranetka]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10395092


There is no video, this is a Guardian link


The Guardian is quoting their interview so the full interview might be found somewhere.

[Misha]

An interesting interview: http://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/56037


I saw the photos of the protest at the museum. Was it good art? Perhaps, perhaps not. However, art must push the boundaries and good art IMHO will challenge social conventions. If this weren't the case, we would have to go to caves to see new drawings of bison instead of art galleries 

[ghost of moon goddess]

No hysterics', please  http://rt.com/politics/lavrov-pussy-riot-trial-119/

[Ranetka]

An interesting interview: http://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/56037


I saw the photos of the protest at the museum. Was it good art? Perhaps, perhaps not. However, art must push the boundaries and good art IMHO will challenge social conventions. If this weren't the case, we would have to go to caves to see new drawings of bison instead of art galleries 

Can you give a link please?

[Misha]

Can you give a link please?

Here is the Wikipedia piece concerning the "Групповой секс в Биологическом музее" or "Ебись за наследника медвежонка" as it was called by the organizers, the self-proclaimed art-group Война:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D0%B2_%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%B5[/size][/font]

In googling to find the info, I came across a reference to the group "F*ck for Forest" who had sex in a Norwegian Cathedral in Oslo during mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_forest. As a point of comparison, it should be noted that though they were arrested, the group was given the choice of paying a small fine or spending sixteen days in jail: http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2011-06-15/34126/Altar-native_sex

[Ranetka]

 Novodvorskaya's opinion




http://grani.ru/opinion/novodvorskaya/m.197025.html


totally agree in what she thinks about "the protest"

[Ranetka]

Here is the Wikipedia piece concerning the "Групповой секс в Биологическом музее" or "Ебись за наследника медвежонка" as it was called by the organizers, the self-proclaimed art-group Война:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D0%B2_%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%B5

In googling to find the info, I came across a reference to the group "F*ck for Forest" who had sex in a Norwegian Cathedral in Oslo during mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_forest. As a point of comparison, it should be noted that though they were arrested, the group was given the choice of paying a small fine or spending sixteen days in jail: http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2011-06-15/34126/Altar-native_sex

They should have charged them then.

[OlgaH]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10395092


There is no video, this is a Guardian link


The Guardian is quoting their interview so the full interview might be found somewhere.

Ranetka, I found about the group-sex protest at the Biological museum of the Moscow State University with photos.    I will not post link here because of photos, but it reminded hippie timein the US. It was not Pussy Riot but an art group of students "War" Here is the wiki link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_the_heir_Puppy_Bear!

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, I found about the group-sex protest at the Biological museum of the Moscow State University with photos.    I will not post link here because of photos, but it reminded hippie timein the US. It was not Pussy Riot but an art group of students "War" Here is the wiki link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_the_heir_Puppy_Bear!

I can not find the link but Pussy Riot is performace group of Voina, it is not a permanent musical group but people from Voina gathering together for the performance....Same people

[Misha]

Novodvorskaya's opinion




http://grani.ru/opinion/novodvorskaya/m.197025.html


totally agree in what she thinks about "the protest"

Including: "Сразу оговорюсь: девушки должны быть освобождены немедленно, уголовное дело надо закрыть. Плохое воспитание и неуважение к богомольному народу, бестактность и эпатаж тянут не более чем 15 суток за хулиганство, причем мелкое."


However, this case highlighted another problem with the Russian justice system: the women were kept in jail for months during the entire period leading up to the trial and their conviction. How many Russians are in jail for months (or longer) before even being brought to court?

[Misha]

They should have charged them then.

They were arrested and convicted. However, the Norwegian courts considered that they merited at best 16 days in jail 

[Ranetka]

http://plucer.livejournal.com/55710.html


Eye witness' account. Lovely. Enjoy the democratic youth of Russia lol. In my youth we did not think a group f@ck can be counted as anti-Putin protest.  We thought it was just a f@ck.

[OlgaH]

I can not find the link but Pussy Riot is performace group of Voina, it is not a permanent musical group but people from Voina gathering together for the performance....Same people

about art-group "Voina" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voina

[Ranetka]

They were arrested and convicted. However, the Norwegian courts considered that they merited at best 16 days in jail 

I did not mean Norwegians, I meat for an orgy in a museum.


Answering to your question regarding being in prison before trial it is very common unfortunately. It probably did not help that the fourth woman is still on the run.


As I said I agree with Novodvorskaya in what she thinks about the protest, not what she thinks about conviction.

[Ranetka]

Interesting to see what the press wrote four years prior to Pussy Riot action


Press and internetControversial opinions of the action were published by the media. A number publications focused on the amoral behavior of the performers. NewspaperKomsomolskaya Pravda commented: "They are not unrecognized geniuses. They are losers and poseurs acting on the principle: 'come, trash the place, go away'. For the PR, they would dance on a grave, even take off their panties in public. And they do not care that after such actions innocent people suffer - metro employees, museum keepers. These actions of urban psychos stink very badly."[12]Mikhail Zhukhov, a lawyer from the attorney's collegium "Justice" commented that the performers' actions contain elements of crime described in Article 213, "Hooliganism", of Russian Criminal Code: "Action participants severely violated social order. Taking into account the place and the fact that people with photo and videocameras were invited, a conclusion can be made about the existence or premeditation. All this was done by a group of people by a prior arrangement. The participants have an unhappy perspective - part 2 of article 213 of Russian Criminal Code makes a provision for a prison sentence for up to seven years. Museum staff should write a report to the Internal Affairs Department".[12].[citatio[/font]

[Misha]

Yet, they also won an award for their innovative work 


http://ria.ru/culture/20110408/362191776.html


Nonetheless, I for one would not want to leave to police officers the right to decide what is art, what isn't and what art should be defines as "hooliganism" just because some people's "feelings" were upset 

[Ranetka]

Yet, they also won an award fo their work 


http://ria.ru/culture/20110408/362191776.html


Nonetheless, I for one would not want to leave to police officers the right to decide what is art, what isn't and what art should be defines as "hooliganism" just because some people's "feelings" were upset 

Sure it will be just great to bring your children to the museum when someone decided to express themselves by having an orgy. Freedom of expression etc.


I would also like to point out that around the world including your own country it's firstly police officers then coroner/court who decide if things are public disorder (hooliganism), vandalism etc or not. That's why police/court exist.

[Misha]

Sure it will be just great to bring your children to the museum when someone decided to express themselves by having an orgy. Freedom of expression etc.

Honestly, I can think of many worse things that children could see and personally I would prefer that to children having to grow up in a society where rights weren't being respected and where the leadership of the state was becoming increasingly authoritarian...