Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[Ranetka]

Honestly, I can think of many worse things that children could see and personally I would prefer that to children having to grow up in a society where rights weren't being respected and where the leadership of the state was becoming increasingly authoritarian...

See I think general public should not be exposed to some cr@p regardless of is it performing artists or just drunks. Being artist or political protest should not be used as an excuse.

[Misha]

See I think general public should not be exposed to some cr@p regardless of is it performing artists or just drunks. Being artist or political protest should not be used as an excuse.

No, but then again jailing people for years because of hurt feelings is worse IMHO. I prefer the Norwegian approach to the Russian. Also, I posted another example where protestors were much more sacrilegious in the United States and nobody went to jail.

[Ranetka]

I see your point but this is Russian Law Misha. The judge gave Pussy Riot minimum sentence allowable by this Article.


I am not aware about Canadian Law sorry. But sometimes one country gives harsher sentences for same crime than others. I think American three strikes is way too harsh but it's their law so it's up to individual to make a choice to commit a crime or not.


Sentence is not only punishment, it is deterrent as well. I think 16 days in jail is laughable, our UK pensioners are getting more for not paying council tax.


 

[Ranetka]

Out of interest what do you think of Julian Assange and the charges awaiting for him in the US? Do you consider him free speech fighter?  (lets not discuss the rape allegation in Sweden, but the US charges)

[Misha]

I see your point but this is Russian Law Misha. The judge gave Pussy Riot minimum sentence allowable by this Article.

Again, it merely highlights the dangers on not having an independent judiciary, and the dangers of having laws in place that can be used too easily as a bat to crack down on all forms of dissent and protest. In the long run, I believe that Russia is doing itself more harm than good.

[Misha]

Out of interest what do you think of Julian Assange and the charges awaiting for him in the US? Do you consider him free speech fighter?  (lets not discuss the rape allegation in Sweden, but the US charges)

I haven't really followed the case closely, but I would say that no, the United States should not try him for treason or any other crime tied to the publishing of information on WikiLeaks, but he should certainly be extradited to Sweden and tried for the crimes he allegedly committed there.

[Muzh]

Someone misguided them telling that by international pressure they will get off with no punishment. That are the same people who are now asking for petitions and sending press statements around the world.
Its ok if you are once again guided in to the usual rants of Putin being Satan, he will not sleep a moment less as he is very much aware where this comes from.
The girls in jail are the victims indeed. Not of Putin, but of those who mislead them in to taking the high profile road for their own propaganda.

Who is this someone?

[Shadow]

Young people are easily influenced in to thinking they are doing the right thing to "improve the world" . Some blow them selves up in a public place, hoping to reach God. Others get jailed, hoping to acquire international fame.
Why can people not be smart enough to understand that these people are nothing but tools. Tools of hidden faces who try to unsettle governments and create chaos.
Yes, those girls are nothing different from suicide terrorists. And those who talk them in to keeping up a defiant act are nothing better as those leading terrorist organizations.

[newjason]

These girls are on the bad way , if you pay attention to their age it's even worse, because at this age they are supposed to have some wisdom. Their parents obviously failed at raising them good people, so the country has to do it now, and I do think that 2 years is a lot but I don't think that a simple fine would prevent them from doing what they do now.
They  can't be worse than they are now, so hopefully life in prison will teach them something new. I will not be surprised if many years later some of them will understand what they did and will end up with being a nun.
the good thing is that the kids will not be raised by immature irresponsible  moms for 2 years' time.

After cases like that when moms are sacrificing their little kids for orgias in churches and supermarkets you really start believing in God and devil.

well put Vasilisa.

I totally agree that these girls have had no positive influences in their lives and are lacking any love and structure in their lives at home.
No one has shown these girls attention and care and any kind of healthy relationships and Apparently no one has ever punished them in any way for their deviant behaviour when they began to act out. So, unlike most normal people, they act out because they need attention and love and affection. Acting like hooligans and shocking regular people get them they attention, albeit in a negative way, it is still attention and that is what they are longing for.
Their stunt in the Church was IMO the ultimate act of defiance and they crossed the line, The church is a sacred and safe place, it always has been, even since the inception of religion, the church has always been a place of sanctuary for EVERYONE and ANYONE.   Even criminals seek the sanctuary and safety of the church for protection from the law and authorities as the police will not enter a church to capture a fugitive if he has pled for sanctuary within the church.  When these pussy girls rush the stage and try to play their music un announced and in ski masks, they invaded a safe place, and were a threat to that safety, They did it directly to God, in front of everyone. Ironicly they would have been welcomed with open arms had they done it with the blessing of the church staff and the proper permission and notice. Furthermore, the one place that could have given them the most help, was the place they chose to defile and disrespect. They needed to be there to learn to be humble long before this stunt.

These girls are lost hooligans who need structure and guidance and boundaries in their lives so that they can make sound decisions.  Now the law has given them a choice for their punishment.  They were offered a way to make amends for their actions, and chose not to issue apologies, therefore, they chose to spend 3 years in prison.  So what is there to argue about? 

Please understand that I know what defiance is, and I am 100% all about breaking the rules and going the extra distance beyond what is normally acceptable. 
Base Jumping is the ultimate act of human defiance. Humans can not fly, because gravity prevents it. But we have found a way to do it, and we do it and we look death right in the face and say F! U! just before the chute deploys and brings us safely back to earth.
BUT,  every single jumper knows how to RESPECT their limits and make decisions based on what is safe, and what is possible.  Much practice and planning and work goes into every crazy stunt.  We make decisions and weigh the risks and know our limits and what the boundries are. 
If a jumper were to just run off to some cliff and jump off just because no one can stop them , well, people don't do that because all the ones who did it before are dead. Your instincts tell you not to do it, and for good reason.  When you ignore those instincts you are crazy.  If you are smart and do it safely and with respect to your limits, you will live another day.

Pussy riot made a jump with no parachute right into a pile of crap. They did not know their limits and had no respect.  Now they get to learn these things, like it or not.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

These girls could have had a far greater impact and furthered their cause had they chose to be smart and use their brains, instead, they chose to be stupid, and used their emotions. They have a lot of people who idolize them, and are probably role models to some kids, and they have a responsibility to themselves and their fans. Now, they will quickly be forgotten.

It's very easy to act like a child and a fool, especially when everyone is supporting you and cheering you on. It is hard to control yourself and think before you act, but that is what makes us adults and civilized. Without that self control, we are headed for disaster and it will not be long before it's one big free for all.

[Misha]

Why can people not be smart enough to understand that these people are nothing but tools. Tools of hidden faces who try to unsettle governments and create chaos.

Ah yes, much like Stalin's alleged saboteurs, the tools of the Bourgeoisie, those hidden faces that had to be rooted out and liquidated....

[Ranetka]

Ah yes, much like Stalin's alleged saboteurs, the tools of the Bourgeoisie, those hidden faces that had to be rooted out and liquidated....

Why can't you stick to facts of this case, why is the need to refer to Stalin? Don't you have enough arguments without bringing Stalin in. If it was just drunk thugs in church what arguments would you use then? How on earth is it Stalin fault?

[tfcrew]

I haven't really followed the case closely, but I would say that no, the United States should not try him for treason or any other crime tied to the publishing of information on WikiLeaks, but he should certainly be extradited to Sweden and tried for the crimes he allegedly committed there.

+1
Somebody sure blabbed stuff to the online wikileaks service.
Let's ask Mitt...

Do White House Leaks Deserve a National Security Investigation? Mitt Romney says Barack Obama purposefully leaked classified national security information to boost himself politically July 25, 2012   

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/07/25/do-white-house-leaks-deserve-a-national-security-investigation

[Misha]

The church is a sacred and safe place, it always has been, even since the inception of religion, the church has always been a place of sanctuary for EVERYONE and ANYONE. 

Perhaps you should read up on the history of the Inquisition and the torture chambers that were built, organized and run by the Catholic Church with the blessing of the Pope 

[Misha]

Why can't you stick to facts of this case, why is the need to refer to Stalin? Don't you have enough arguments without bringing Stalin in. If it was just drunk thugs in church what arguments would you use then? How on earth is it Stalin fault?

I am highlighting the similarity in logic and the need to postulate the "hidden" danger to society that must be rooted out and the alleged "foreigners" that incite anarchy... I could also draw parallels to the Inquisition as well if you wish.

[Ranetka]

I am highlighting the similarity in logic and the need to postulate the "hidden" danger to society that must be rooted out and the alleged "foreigners" that incite anarchy... I could also draw parallels to the Inquisition as well if you wish.

Sometimes a banana is just a banana Misha....


(you know this joke, don't you?)

[Misha]

Sometimes a banana is just a banana Misha....


(you know this joke, don't you?)

Well, Freud phrased it better...

[Shadow]

Ah yes, much like Stalin's alleged saboteurs, the tools of the Bourgeoisie, those hidden faces that had to be rooted out and liquidated....

I am sure Stalin used the same methods as the people who convinced Pussy Riot not to apologize.

[Misha]

I am sure Stalin used the same methods as the people who convinced Pussy Riot not to apologize.

Who are "the people" you keep referring to Shadow? Name names, identify the culpable...

[Ranetka]

Whatever it's true or not I have no way of knowing but I read their lawyers insisted on a trial. If it's true it's very ill-advised.

[newjason]

Perhaps you should read up on the history of the Inquisition and the torture chambers that were built, organized and run by the Catholic Church with the blessing of the Pope 

ah forgive me , I forgot to put the disclaimer

The church is a sacred and safe place*, it always has been, even since the inception of religion, the church has always been a place of sanctuary for EVERYONE and ANYONE. **

*As long as you agree with the religion and God, Otherwise, off with your head!
** to qualify for (any|every)one status you must :
           1) accept Christianity as your one and only faith.
           2) tide weekly in the amount not less than 20% of your income.
           3) Accept the fact that sodomy IS normal and swear a vow of silence on that matter.
           4) Recruit non believers and convince them to become Christian.
           5) If 4) is not possible through means of constant nagging and boasting, see 5a below.
           5a) Using a broadsword, Kill anyone who will not accept the Church without hesitation.
           

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, unless it's your penis.

[Misha]

ah forgive me , I forgot to put the disclaimer

The church is a sacred and safe place*, it always has been, even since the inception of religion, the church has always been a place of sanctuary for EVERYONE and ANYONE. **

*As long as you agree with the religion and God, Otherwise, off with your head!
** to qualify for (any|every)one status you must :
           1) accept Christianity as your one and only faith.
           2) tide weekly in the amount not less than 20% of your income.
           3) Accept the fact that sodomy IS normal and swear a vow of silence on that matter.
           4) Recruit non believers and convince them to become Christian.
           5) If 4) is not possible through means of constant nagging and boasting, see 5a below.
           5a) Using a broadsword, Kill anyone who will not accept the Church without hesitation.
           

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, unless it's your penis.

LOL! Now, at least, you are being somewhat historically accurate 

[Gator]

FLASH NEWS ALERT
 
I just listened to an interview with Gary Kasporov on CNBC (business channel).  Gary is director (?) of the United Civil Front of Russia and is involved in anti-Putin demonstrations.  He was arrested as part of this action, and one of the arresting officers accused him of biting his finger when they forced Gary into the police van.  There is film footage of the arrest and it shows the police officer and Gary, and there is no evidence that Gary bit him.
 
Gary says that tomorrow he will file a complaint against the police officer for a false report and he will also file a complaint against the police for false arrest.
 
He summarized it by saying something "dark and dangerous" is happening in Russia.  He exhibited no fear of Putin as he continues his demonstration.  He says Putin has much lower public support these days.  While he does not know what or when something will happen, he does not see how Putin can maintain his control forever.  Something will happen.

[Misha]

Whatever it's true or not I have no way of knowing but I read their lawyers insisted on a trial. If it's true it's very ill-advised.

The three defendants based on what I have read are clearly intelligent and fully capable of making up their own minds as to what strategy to best follow IMHO. I simply do not understand the need to find the outsiders pulling strings...

[OlgaH]

Whatever it's true or not I have no way of knowing but I read their lawyers insisted on a trial. If it's true it's very ill-advised.

Ranetka, here is the Orthodox believers website and you can read interview with the girls attorneys

http://simvol-veri.ru/xp/advokati-pussy-riot-prosyat-rpc-po-bojeski.html

Dancing in the Cathedral of Christ 


 

[BC]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/pussy-riot-protestors-germany-cologne-cathedral_n_1813323.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Three protesters dressed as members of the punk band Pussy Riot were escorted out of the Cologne Cathedral in Germany on Sunday after protesting the Russian band's imprisonment, The Local, an English-language German news site reports.

The Germans don't mess around much either.  Those involved have been charged with crimes that can involve a fine or multi year jail terms.