Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[OlgaH]

BC, don't you see the big problem in Russia when the government and its minions don't follow its own standard proceeding, the rules and the laws ?

I guess, you don't.

[BC]

Olga,

If the Orthodox Church is doing anything at all illegally, then charges should be brought against them by those that have been infringed upon.

Why has that not happened?  Is it not 'implied consent'?





 

[BC]

BC, That's what I'm talking about  The Church above the law. If a "souvenir kiosk of a businessman Pupkin" decoded to expand the territory of his business in the Cathedral building there would be another talk.

BC, do you understand that in Russia everything should be documented properly according to the law. If there are no official documents there are no deal.

But it doesn't matter when it comes to the Church...

the Church sells "gold" crosses without standard gold stamps indicating carat... and it doesn't matter if it is against the law, and it doesn't matter if there a lot complains from the consumers who purchase goods from the Church and goods turns to be defective, they cannot return and cannot exchange the goods.

Is all this what Pussy Riot et al was protesting against?

Looking at your last posts, it seems not.  According to you their motives were purely political.

You are grasping at straws.

[OlgaH]

Olga,

If the Orthodox Church is doing anything at all illegally, then charges should be brought against them by those that have been infringed upon.

Why has that not happened?  Is it not 'implied consent'?

BC, there a lot of charges already brought against the Church. Question is why the state judicial system closes its eyes?

maybe because the portraits of the government leader and the church leader are obligatory in the state institutions, and criticism against politics of the ruling party is an anti Christian action...

[OlgaH]

You are grasping at straws.

I guess it is mutual BC, I see your posts in the same way, you are grasping at straws   

[mendeleyev]

Olga, I have purchased two gold crosses this year inside the Cathedral. While it really didn't matter to me about the gold content, it mattered to my wife from the perspective of quality and what we were about to present as gifts to new Orthodox converts. Rest easy, the required labeling was there.

[mendeleyev]

Olga, I know the dean and of course he has frustrations at times with the rental arrangements. That is normal in most rental agreements especially when Orthodox faithful such as our family DONATED MONEY to rebuild what we thought would be a property fully returned to the church by the City. But for him to say that the church receives only 7% use is preposterous. True that the Patriarch does not office there permanently, but unless you are a city insider, any visitor or parishioner on any given day understands fully the purpose of the building is a church and other other functions are generally exceptions.

[mendeleyev]

BTW, it is not obligatory for state offices to hang portraits of the Patriarch.

I'm with you on this one, those who do have them are making a mistake based on issues of constitutional separation.

[OlgaH]

Olga, I have purchased two gold crosses this year inside the Cathedral. While it really didn't matter to me about the gold content, it mattered to my wife from the perspective of quality and what we were about to present as gifts to new Orthodox converts. Rest easy, the required labeling was there.

It is not just about the content of the gold but about the rule and the law. While you did not had a bad experience buying goods at the church some people did. That's why we have in Russia. That's why we have in Russia The society of consumer rights protection.
Have your read  their website? As a journalist on Russia you actually should  especially when they sue the Church. 

[OlgaH]

Olga, I know the dean and of course he has frustrations at times with the rental arrangements. That is normal in most rental agreements especially when Orthodox faithful such as our family DONATED MONEY to rebuild what we thought would be a property fully returned to the church by the City. But for him to say that the church receives only 7% use is preposterous. True that the Patriarch does not office there permanently, but unless you are a city insider, any visitor or parishioner on any given day understands fully the purpose of the building is a church and other other functions are generally exceptions.

again it is not about visitor or parishioner's knowledge who and how uses the building but about the law and that's why the Consumer Right Protection asks the competent authority to conduct and inspection regarding that facts of improper use of the building facilities and the money allocate from the City budget to the Cathedral Fund. If you are interested in the life of the Cathedral you also should read it as well

http://www.ozpp.ru/news/ozpp-prosit-kompetentnye-organy-proverit-deyatelnost-fonda-hrama-hrista-spasitelya.html

[OlgaH]

BTW, it is not obligatory for state offices to hang portraits of the Patriarch.

I'm with you on this one, those who do have them are making a mistake based on issues of constitutional separation.

I hope not obligatory     there is a lot of issues regarding the constitution or better to say not following the constitution and the law by "untouchables"

[mendeleyev]

If you are interested in the life of the Cathedral you also should read it as well

I'm interested enough to call it my "home church" and am there often enough that I really don't require another writer to describe it for me. 

[OlgaH]

I'm interested enough to call it my "home church" and am there often enough that I really don't require another writer to describe it for me. 

I understand Mendeleyev, it is easy to close they eyes and ears than to accept the facts that  the Leaders of the Orthodox Church have their faults and sins. 

[OlgaH]

And here is another one on how easy the RF law is manipulated and twisted when it concerns the Orthodox Church.

http://www.ozpp.ru/news/ozpp-obzhalovalo-skandalnoe-reshenie-suda-o-torgovle-v-hrame-hrista-spasitelya.html

[mendeleyev]

Olga, you have an axe to grind and so be it. However all that I've written about the Orthodox church and the government and yet for you to say that my eyes are closed it only a sign to me that you are the one suffering from blindness.

Again, my faith is not in a Patriarch, but God. I love, respect, admonish, criticize and correct the man as needed. He is my brother and father. But not my God.

But make no mistrake, I love the church. That being said, I do not hesitate to question leadership as needed.

[OlgaH]

Olga, you have an axe to grind and so be it. However all that I've written about the Orthodox church and the government and yet for you to say that my eyes are closed it only a sign to me that you are the one suffering from blindness.

Again, my faith is not in a Patriarch, but God. I love, respect, admonish, criticize and correct the man as needed. He is my brother and father. But not my God.

But make no mistrake, I love the church. That being said, I do not hesitate to question leadership as needed.

No, I don't have an axe...  But I see it as a big problem in the country that the government itself and the Church is above the law. 

The Church in Russia has been playing a great role in the moods formation in Russia, including such moods as antisemitism, anti gay, anti feminism...   

[BC]

No, I don't have an axe...  But I see it as a big problem in the country that the government itself and the Church is above the law. 

The Church in Russia has been playing a great role in the moods formation in Russia, including such moods as antisemitism, anti gay, anti feminism...

Is that so unusual?

Aside from antisemitism, is it that different in the US?  Politics and Religion have always been bedfellows.

You are indeed persistent.. so keep hacking away.. If not an axe, maybe a hatchet, machete or just desire to have the last word without substance?

The lenient sentence for DUI death was more the norm.  The rent issue a technicality, Mendy addressed the jewelry issue with first hand info.. None of which Pussy Riot protested against...  Any new wood to chip up?

[OlgaH]

Is that so unusual?

Aside from antisemitism, is it that different in the US?  Politics and Religion have always been bedfellows.

You are indeed persistent.. so keep hacking away.. If not an axe, maybe a hatchet, machete or just desire to have the last word without substance?

The lenient sentence for DUI death was more the norm.  The rent issue a technicality, Mendy addressed the jewelry issue with first hand info.. None of which Pussy Riot protested against...  Any new wood to chip up?

BC, I sincerely hope that you don't think that the bed-relationship between politics and religion should be a norm and we should comply with that. In the US people at least can openly criticize such relationship.

If such people in Russia like Larisa Pavlova who thinks that the feminism is a sin therefore the phrase "Mother Mary be a feminist" is anti religious and is a hate, physical punishment of children is an Orthodox tradition and it is OK, the Church has to control family lives in the country, and the Orthodox teaching should be obligatory in the school, the Church leaders are untouchable because they are saint, more of she is also a member of the board of Parental committee, if such people like her will take over the justice in Russia... what will happen BC?

BC I gave you the link to the first hand legal information regarding rent and regarding the consumers complaints and the charges brought against the Church. But you prefer to ignore it. 

[BC]

BC I gave you the link to the first hand legal information regarding rent and regarding the consumers complaints and the charges brought against the Church. But you prefer to ignore it.

Olga,

I did not ignore, but instead deemed it as irrelevant, especially considering that Pussy Riot did not even address (and I doubt even knew) such.  It's a 'lawyers excuse' and nothing else.

Olga, I respect your views, so leave it at that but don't try to change my mind.  I think that is where your insistence detracts from your argument.

Present fact for me to ponder.

If such people in Russia like Larisa Pavlova who thinks that the feminism is a sin therefore the phrase "Mother Mary be a feminist" is anti religious and is a hate, physical punishment of children is an Orthodox tradition and it is OK, the Church has to control family lives in the country, and the Orthodox teaching should be obligatory in the school, the Church leaders are untouchable because they are saint, more of she is also a member of the board of Parental committee, if such people like her will take over the justice in Russia... what will happen BC?

She is one.. there are many others that can and do form their own opinion.  You tend to believe that folks in RU are nothing other than sheep following their tender.  I think otherwise.

[OlgaH]

Olga,

I did not ignore, but instead deemed it as irrelevant, especially considering that Pussy Riot did not even address (and I doubt even knew) such.  It's a 'lawyers excuse' and nothing else.

Yes, they did address but justice ignored it as well

I already posted the translated song they were singing

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away

(end chorus)

...
Black robe, golden epaulettes
All parishioners crawl to bow
The phantom of liberty is in heaven
Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains

The head of the KGB, their chief saint,
Leads protesters to prison under escort
In order not to offend His Holiness
Women must give birth and love

Shit, shit, the Lord's shit!
Shit, shit, the Lord's shit!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist
Become a feminist, become a feminist

(end chorus)

The Church’s praise of rotten dictators
The cross-bearer procession of black limousines
A teacher-preacher will meet you at school
Go to class - bring him money!

Patriarch Gundyaev believes in Putin
Bitch, better believe in God instead
The belt of the Virgin can’t replace mass-meetings
Mary, Mother of God, is with us in protest!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away

[OlgaH]

When Larisa Pavlova was defending an Orthodox couple that was severely beating their adopted child and the child was suffering brain injury as well along with bruises and burns, and the Orthodox couple got about 2 years of correctional work, not in prison... Larisa Pavlova stated that the case was against the Church and had political "smell",  but when the girls were singing "Mother Mary put Putin away..." the case is not political.

The Church representatives stated they believe in the Ageevs Family innocence.

Should I mention that the thousands children in Russia suffer severe physical abuse...

According to the Russian expertise and the Orthodox attorney Larisa Pavlova the concussion of the brain and burns are not big issue and children don't need medical help, so Ageevs could not be guilty in beating their adopted child and leaving him without medical help.

[Misha]

You tend to believe that folks in RU are nothing other than sheep following their tender.  I think otherwise.

The position that some seem to be defending IMHO is that all Russians should be followers, and those who refuse are rightfully jailed

[OlgaH]

How we even can talk about justice when the witnesses for the defence (Pussy Riot) weren't allowed to be present?   

[mendeleyev]

According to the Russian expertise and the Orthodox attorney Larisa Pavlova the concussion of the brain and burns are not big issue and children don't need medical help, so Ageevs could not be guilty in beating their adopted child and leaving him without medical help.

She is but one of perhaps millions of attorneys who are Orthodox? For ever abuse there are also stories of Orthodox compassion, Muslim compassion and the work that other faiths do to serve the Russian people.

Abuse is wrong but I'd suggest that corruption and bribery of local and regional officials has far more to do with abusive parents getting off the hook than the abuse being condoned because a family is Orthodox. You know as well as I do that when the Prosecutor walks into a courtroom the judge doesn't say oh my goodness, look citizens, this is an Orthodox family so they can beat their kids.
 

[BC]

Yes, they did address but justice ignored it as well

I already posted the translated song they were singing

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away

(end chorus)

...
Black robe, golden epaulettes
All parishioners crawl to bow
The phantom of liberty is in heaven
Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains

The head of the KGB, their chief saint,
Leads protesters to prison under escort
In order not to offend His Holiness
Women must give birth and love

Shit, shit, the Lord's shit!
Shit, shit, the Lord's shit!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist
Become a feminist, become a feminist

(end chorus)

The Church’s praise of rotten dictators
The cross-bearer procession of black limousines
A teacher-preacher will meet you at school
Go to class - bring him money!

Patriarch Gundyaev believes in Putin
Bitch, better believe in God instead
The belt of the Virgin can’t replace mass-meetings
Mary, Mother of God, is with us in protest!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away

Then the aim was also religious vs purely political as you stated?