Write one? Write many?

[Goombah]

Well... this weekend I started anew, writing many ladies in hopes of finding someone now that my previous relationship is over.  Over the past 6 months, I have a relatively comprehensive introduction letter, over 5700 characters long, that provides my background, my values, my hopes, my dreams.

Much to my surprise, I received a nice reply within hours of me writing one lady.  Much to more horror, I received a new letter today:

"Kevin,
I am desipointed of you,because my friend also has profile on the same site and she told me about you,so I asked to see your letter and I see that you write same letter to all girls,so I wish you good luck,may be you will find right wife,but man like you is not for  me."

Ouch!  Of course, "all girls" is an overstatment, but I did write to 19... (Its a "pay per month" site).  I tried writing back explaining how so few ladies respond that this is necessary, and is no reflection on me being true to her once we established a relationship.

It will be interesting to see if I get a response.

Kevin

[Bruno]

make multiple contacts.

The reason for this is that she would not understand why you want only her, she will think there is possibly something wrong with you, that you can not attract women, so why would she want you? She is VERY insecure, she will be attracted by a man who attracts other women. Another good reason is she is prepared to be competitive, that woman will fight for her destiny, it has always been her dream to love and be loved. Russian women are tough survivors, they will pursue their dreams, in their own way, just don't try too hard to understand their ways. Most women get jealous of the fact that another woman might have the attention of 'their' man, Russian women are no exception, probably even more so, this can be a useful tool, use it to your advantage. It is a nice feeling to have women competing for your attention. The best way to attract a sufficient quantity of possible candidates for your meetings is to publish your own profile, then let them write you. I feel that this method eliminates the deadwood. Every letter or e-mail that you get will be a woman who took the time and expense to contact you, which is not the small sacrifice for them as it is for us.

Next, once that you start getting correspondence from these ladies, at bare minimum respond with a thanks, but no thanks, to the ones you don't care for, but be prepared to respond in some fashion. The ones you really like, you can correspond to stating your intention to meet Russian women within 6 months or less, that you would like to possibly meet her for a day, and that the ultimate purpose is the possibility of matrimony, tell her a little about yourself and what you expect. Don't give her your life history, about 1 page will do. The maybes, you could tell them that you are already involved, but if it didn't work out you will contact her later. But you need to reply to every one, you are the one advertising yourself, she is just answering your advertisement. You know how you would feel to send her a letter or e-mail and not get a reply.

IN SHORT : write to several, and explain that you will marry but you have not yet make your choice... and that she is a potential canditat... that you will know more about her.

[Goombah]

Thanks Bruno.  Apparently this one did not see it that way, although I have written a similar reply to what you suggested.  Between my posted profile, and my letter, the ladys learn:  

My basic stats:  Height, weight, relgious beliefs, that I have two children from a previous marriage, my birthday.

A paragraph on what I am looking for.

A paragraph on what I consider a good husband to be.

That I want more children.

That I consider communciation key to a relationship.

Four lines on where I work, how long I've been there, etc.

Two paragraphs about what I like to do.

A paragraph explaining that I have been to Kiev once.

A paragraph asking about her.

Kevin

[Vaughn]

                  Goombah wrote:

Well... this weekend I started anew, writing many ladies in hopes of finding someone now that my previous relationship is over.

Good show. I like to hear that a man's gotten back in the saddle.

 Over the past 6 months, I have a relatively comprehensive introduction letter, over 5700 characters long, that provides my background, my values, my hopes, my dreams.

                 
Whooops! A Form Letter? Not that it's anyone's business, but does it read like a form letter? Are you also inserting comments and reactions to the lady's profile and photo (I mean individually) or just sending the exact same letter to everyone? Just curious.

"Kevin,
I am desipointed of you,because my friend also has profile on the same site and she told me about you,so I asked to see your letter and I see that you write same letter to all girls,so I wish you good luck,may be you will find right wife,but man like you is not for me."

"All girls" may be an overstatement, but "Ouch" is a gross understatement! Disaster's more like it. Your attempt at damage control by explaining that "so few ladies respond that this is necessary" is not a flattering statement, Kevin - in effect, it's saying "Lady, I get so damn few responses, so I'm going for volume, not quality - but I'm sure glad YOU responded". Maybe that's too harsh, but she might just be insulted by the "so few" part. I tailored each of my letters to fit the individual woman (I wrote to only six) and kept copies of those so I could refer back to what I had written later. I could never have handled nineteen correspondences simultaneously, but that's just me, more power to you. Overall, I agree that you should write to several women after your recent experience, but I would ditch the canned letter approach, and make each contact more personal. It's a numbers game, yes, but each woman wants to feel special, and not part of a lottery.

News travels fast in offices, small towns, and pay-by-the-month sites. Hang in there, keep trying.

Vaughn
 

[Goombah]

So how do you write a personalized message to a "I'm looking for a strong, honest man".  Not much to go on - or do you just write very short initial contact letters?

At this for awhile, but still learning.

Kevin

ps.  My letters read like an "Introduction" letter, almost a background resume.  I'm just creative enough to write something custom when you typically only know half-a-dozen descriptive words about the lady beyond age, height, weight, and photo.

[Albert]

Kevin, you are doing exactly the right thing and following the correct procedure.  It is just a fact that sometimes two or more ladies that you write to are going to know each other.  You will probably lose both of them, but it cannot be helped.

I disagree with Bruno's idea of publishing profile and letting girls write to you.  I have tried that a few times and it is a big waste of time.  You will get tons of letters, but 99% of them will be from women who meet none of your criteria.  We men know what we want, so best to contact the women who seem to meet some of our criteria and then start screening them out as the details start coming out in their messages.

And I disagree with Vaughn.  This is a numbers game as has been stated and proven many times.  We absolutely have to go with a generic letter.  However, clever guys can write generic letters that do not look like form letters.  It only takes 2-3 sentences to tailor the message to fit each particular girl. 

19 girls at once is nothing.  I start out writing close to 400 girls each time I make a new trip.  About half will not even receive the messages because they never open their mail, etc.  This can be verified by using a service such as matchdoctor where it shows when the ladies open your message.

Out of the 200 who open, maybe 150 will answer.  OUt of these 150, half of them I drop because of something they say, English skills, etc.  Of the 75 left, half will be gone after 3-4 messages because of other things I find out about them from their messages.  Of the 37 left, maybe 20 or so will still be around after 7-8 messages.  So these 20, I rank and plan definite meeting times with 8-12 of them.  The others will be the backup group if one of the first group cancel out late in the game.

So I think you are doing everything OK, except you haven't stated how many you wrote initial letters to.  I am guessing it was much too small of a number.  I am not bragging, but I think it is useful to know the experience of those who are giving advice.  As I stated elsewhere I have done this about 18 times from scratch and have had initial meetings with over 150 ladies in a dozen cities.  Yes, it is true that I am not yet married, but that is not a 'must' thing for me.  If I were desperate to get married, as many seem to be, I could have married about 25 of the ladies I met.  I go first for business, second to date ladies all around the world, and third if the perfect gal shows up, I will marry her.

 

[Dave]

goomba,

i use a 1 page intro letter that i send to all ladies similar to what you write. once i get a reply i then write individual letters. if i write more then 2 letters to the same lady, i then create a word document with every one of our letters so that i can refer back to it later to see if i asked her something before. it helps to keep track of the many, yet also makes it easier to be personalized. right now i am almost to where you are although i still write to 2 ladies...well 3 if i can find what happened to the lady i told you about on the other thread. i think those numbers will be dwindling down soon though as 1 gave a false address and the other i cant find for now. btw, thanks for trying to send that letter for me.

ps. dont steal her away if she replies ;-)

[Bruno]

[line]


I disagree with Bruno's idea of publishing profile and letting girls write to you.  I have tried that a few times and it is a big waste of time.  You will get tons of letters, but 99% of them will be from women who meet none of your criteria.  We men know what we want, so best to contact the women who seem to meet some of our criteria and then start screening them out as the details start coming out in their messages.

[line]


Albert, where have you post you profile ? Woman post on English site because they know that man surf on English site... when i post my profile, i make it on russian site... where RW search a husband and not a western man... you have not a lot of reply but you have very interesting reply...

You can use ICQ dating to... since the connection in Russia are enough slow for other system... several RW use ICQ... after 30 minutes chat, you know already a lot...

About mass writing, i have make almost like you... start with 800 woman... but don't send you 800 letter in the same time, mail.ru can block your IP for spam... and i use the same introduction letter... my second letter is around 80 page long ... but i don't send all... it is a lot of reply to several question a woman can send in the second letter... just copy and paste some chapter ... after one month, from the 800 have stay 2 woman... and one have drop me because she have think we was not compatible... and i have keep the last one, meet her... and meet her again in May and maybe go married in December...

Like Dave, i make a "open-office" document ( compatible word  )...

[Vaughn]

Kevin wrote:

I'm just creative enough to write something custom when you typically only know half-a-dozen descriptive words about the lady beyond age, height, weight, and photo.

That explains it. I wrote to Russian women who had posted fairly complete profiles, including much personal backround such as hobbies, likes and dislikes, habits, orientations. These profiles were available on Excite Personals, where most Americans go to find local dates and relationships. I scrolled down through all the states, then spotted "Antigua" - and continued through many countries, finally resting on Russia. So the personals I looked through were fairly comprehensive, more than just statistical - mind you, not that these women were any superior, just that the information was more complete, and hence, I could eliminate ladies more quickly without ever having to write and explore. This was in 2001, and now (I believe) a search on Yahoo and Excite Personals is only offered by Zip Code, and so there are no FSU (nor Antiguan)women on there. It's true there is no one correct way to go about this yet I still disagree with the generic letter concept, but that's only my personal choice. It sure seems logical when you're canvassing great numbers of ladies, but alas, I wrote fewer than that. It'll be interesting to see if that one lady you mentioned buys your explanation and writes back - I suspect if that happens, she'll soon want to be your exclusive - she obviously doesn't go for the "sharing" you with others, a good sign, IMO. Kevin, again, good luck. Hope you can quickly concentrate on just a choice few, and then focus on only them...

Vaughn

[Photo Guy]

Write to one, or many?

I'm pretty new to this whole thing, but I think the
experts disagree on this.

The marriage tours guys, like John Adams of A Foreign Affair,
promote the idea of meeting a bunch of women and then
narrowing it down during a tour by scheduling as many
meetings as possible.

Elena, of Elena's Models, also believes you should write to
many and then narrow it down.

Elena firmly believes you should travel to FSU to meet with
that ONE woman who you have decided is at the top of your list.
Her argument is that women WILL KNOW when and if you are
scheduled to meet other women and this will sabotage the
whole process.

Looking at the different strategies, it seems to make sense to
me to communicate with as many women as possible, before
meeting with that one special 'finalist'.

I'd like to hear from all the happily married couples on this
subject. Did you meet with many women over there?
Or did you decide early on to focus on just one?

I seem to be focused on this one woman, Larisa.
It may be a mistake. I don't know. I also email another
woman, who is interesting but too young for me. I have mixed
feelings about her. There's another woman who answered
my free profile, who seems interesting but I haven't written
to her. Of these three women, two did not answer my profile.
I wrote to their profiles.
Yes, I've gotten many responses to my profile and 70% do not
interest me, they have kids, or whatever..
So, intellectually I realize I should write to many women, yet
I'm drawn to writing to just one. If I write to a dozen women,
I feel I might lack intensity. It's hard to explain.

Bruno, about photos. I just received photos from Larisa.
These are like family snapshots, -unlike her studio profile photo.
In one, she doesn't look very good, in two she looks average/good
and in one she looks quite good. She's generally attractive but
not the hot babe in her studio photo. Like many women, she
looks better with more make-up, and with perfect lighting
and the right pose. That's understandable. She still has my interest, because I can combine all of these images with the great personality she has presented in the emails since November.

BTW, in script, she writes a capital 'D' that looks like our 'D'.
I thought the Russian 'D' was that odd symbol with the
two little legs at the bottom?    -doug L.

[Bruno]

[line]
Bruno, about photos. I just received photos from Larisa. These are like family snapshots, unlike her studio profile photo. In one, she doesn't look very good, in two she looks average/good and in one she looks quite good. She's generally attractive but not the hot babe in her studio photo. Like many women, she looks better with more make-up, and with perfect lighting and the right pose. She still has my interest, because I can combine these images with the great personality she has presented in the emails since November.

[line]


Yeeeppp Doug... don't worry about the photo... she is like all the woman... beauty is something difficult to judge... clothes, make-up, hairdresser can make a wonder... and it is why i have advice before for not look on the photo... these who have some money can pay a professional but the other use normal photo... it is not because she don't look like a babe on her photo that she is a babe...

See yourself... take a photo the friday evening, when you are ready to go in disco... take a other when you go back from work... and a last, the saturday morning when you have too much drink alcohol the friday night... a good one, a medium and a bad...

And if you are really searching a life partner, don't forget that the time remove the outside beauty... stay only the inside beauty...

[Photo Guy]

Bruno,
I have a fear that I'll like the person, but not her body.
That happened recently. I became involved with a 'nice' girl. AW.
She was very smart and easy to get along with. But, it was
luke-warm, not very hot. I never felt a passionate desire for her.
I thought that with time I could become more attracted to her.
She deserved to have a guy who was more attracted to her
physically, than me. I deserved to be with a woman who
really turns me on, sexually. Passion is important.

What makes it tricky, is that I did have a relationship with another
AW who was NOT that attractive when I first met her. I worked with
her and as time went on, she became more physically attractive.
Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't.

On the other hand, if I am initially attracted to a woman, that
attraction usually continues and intensifies. That scenario is
a sure bet.  -doug L.

[Photo Guy]

Well... this weekend I started anew, writing many ladies in hopes of finding someone now that my previous relationship is over.  Over the past 6 months, I have a relatively comprehensive introduction letter, over 5700 characters long, that provides my background, my values, my hopes, my dreams.

Much to my surprise, I received a nice reply within hours of me writing one lady.  Much to more horror, I received a new letter today:
Snip

Here's the contradiction: Women expect you to treat them as
though they are the only woman in your life, period. Opposing
that is the idea that a sensible quest involves playing the field.
Even in the US, if you have ONE date with a woman, she
would never want to hear that you will be having lunch with
another woman the next day, even though you are still in
the beginning stage of just getting to know them. It's
ridiculous, but true.

That is how women are. So we guys are forced to secretly
date or write other women. The reverse is also true to a degree.
When we discover the woman we are writing to is seeing
another guy we feel like we're on shaky ground. So, you
end up with the  'don't ask, don't tell' policy.

For me, I have also tried the long intro letter strategy.
Elena of Elena's Models recommends that. I have gotten
better results when I write simple half-page letters. Maybe
because they come across as less formal and more relaxed.
I dunno. In a short letter, you can always mention that you
will gladly answer any of her questions. I ask her a few
questions in the hope that she will be encouraged to
respond, and then build on that response. In my translated
emails to her, I usually focus on something, like my
family, or my job, what I want, what I don't want, etc.

Just a guess- maybe a long intro letter implies that you
would like a long comprehensive letter from them, and
that feels like more work for them, like a daunting task.  -doug L.

 

[ConnerVT]

Back when I was sending into letters, I believe mine was about one page long (printed from MSWord on an inkjet).  Interestingly enough, the woman I married replied with a letter about three sentences long.

(paraphrased) " ...It was nice to receive your letter.... It would be pleasant to meet you when you are in Russia..."

Although I corresponded (at met) several other women, my wife and I exchanged only one other short letter before we met.  I personally believe that people put too much emphasis on writing letters before they meet, and that correspondence can cause a whole different set of problems.  But that's a topic for another thread...

[Vaughn]

ConnerVT wrote:

I personally believe that people put too much emphasis on writing letters before they meet, and that correspondence can cause a whole different set of problems.

That's an interesting point, Conner. Now that I think about it, my wife and I had gradually reduced the e-mails and replaced 'em with phone calls. This not only reduced our dependence on agencies, but made our conversations and information exchange fresher. She admitted to me early on that the trips to the agency were burdensome, a long way and time constraints with her teaching job. Back to your point, though, I know quite a few men who've married FSU gals and they shared no long history of letters and e-mails.

Vaughn

[2tallbill]

I resurrected this thread so that the merits of Visit One and Visit Many

But actually, if you plan and execute a WMVM trip properly, you don't have any of these worries.

As the meetings occur, you drop any gals that give you any trouble or raise any red flags or even yellow flags.

You will be left with a pretty good group of Gals that don't give you any worries at all.

It's pinning all your hope on one Gal before even meeting that causes the problems.

I think properly is the key word here. A guy can go on a visit many trip and f#ck it up
by the numbers for sure. Guys who go on tours do a version of visit many all the time
and they usually marry the first girl who drops her knickers.

I think the biggest problem is marrying a girl that you barely know, sorta like ML did
on his whirlwind 4 year wonder. There are far too many guys who marry a girl after
meeting her once or twice.

[zooble]

WMVM is simply sticking with the best of the bunch or starting over again because there were no hits.

After that initial writing phase, say you had 3 lovely ladies interested in you from your meetings, how would you keep up a long relationship with all of them? It's not like you could date all 3 simultaneously for 2 years. If you can't commit to them (simply exclusivity and not necessarily marriage), they probably won't commit to you and will date/marry someone else. Not to mention the logistics... there are only so many holidays per year us in Australia and America can make to the FSU. Even if you stick with just 1 girl, that 2 years might be 2-4 visits only. 10 visits? That's probably 4+ years! What FSU girl would wait that long?

A long term trial might work if you bring her over and you live with each other for a few months. If she has kids, work, studies (most people) that is probably not going to happen. The man could always do it but then that's also giving up a lot.

I think you need a super flexible job or to be in Europe for any real shot at a many visits/several months of in-person contact deal.

I think a lot of people who end up flying jump at the first opportunity since they are getting something that would never happen back home. Marry her instantly to 'lock her in' then inevitably fail in a few years.

There would also be those that get sorely disappointed at failing with his VM/VO, wasting time and money. They would probably hit up local agencies out of desperation and isolation.

[2tallbill]

WMVM is simply sticking with the best of the bunch or starting over again because there were no hits.

NOTE: others will disagree with my theory (of course they are wrong  )
This is my basic theory on meeting many.

There are several different methods of visit many. Some guys do as you say they
find several girls and write them, talk to them etc with the expectation to meet all
of them to pick the best one. I highly recommend NOT doing that.

In my opinion, that method ends up with the girls figuring out what you are doing
and then they start playing games and you end up dating Sally three times when
you really aren't that interested in Sally and you can't get Peggy to agree to meet
you because she's suddenly always busy.


In my opinion the way to go on a visit many trip is to write 100 girls ONE letter,
maybe two at most and ask them to meet you for tea and cake (if you want to
sweeten the deal) then you see which girls you have mutual chemistry with.

You never date a girl a second time just because she is hot. You only date a girl
a second time if you think she likes you as much as you like her. You only date
a girl a second time if you think that she has the potential to be the future
Mrs_____________ your name here. I've seen guys date a girl who was only
moderately interested in them because she was hot and sexy as hell. That's dumb,
you want a woman very, very interested in you and nothing else!

If there is no mutual chemistry then you move on and never bother the poor girl
again. Don't try to wish interest into a girl. Guys do that all the time too. In order
for this to work, you have to be brutally honest with yourself and decisive. If you
are type of guy who spends an hour at the counter at the 31 flavors ice cream store
making a decision then this method isn't for you.

The beauty with this method is that you don't exchange a bunch of flowery emails
with a girl or girls who you didn't have mutual chemistry with. You have to be decisive,
is this the girl? yes or no? there are no maybe's because a maybe girl is a no. You
aren't looking for a so-so girl, you are looking for an excellent girl. You've gotta be
ruthless and dump any girl who isn't the real deal.

You are doing a girl a favor by dumping her. She can't find her future husband until
you are out of the picture. You can't find your wife until she is out of the picture.

In my opinion the worst method of doing a visit many trip is to get involved in a letter
writing campaign with several girls and then try to meet them all. The only thing worse
than that is meeting a girl again that you met on a previous trip or to keep writing girls
when you go home that you didn't have mutual chemistry with.

Don't recycle girls! they were second place girls for a reason, you only want a first place
girl and believe me, that no girl wants to be a second place girl. One last thing, is when
you meet a girl and make an excellent connection and you feel it and she feels it, then
you pursue her.

Udachi!

Bill

[jone]

Oh, you big liar.  We all know that you married the hottest woman you met. 


She married you because she had very poor evaluative skills.  She also married you because she wanted to live in a tropical paradise.  You can't hide the truth from us.

[2tallbill]

I think a lot of people who end up flying jump at the first opportunity since they are getting something that would never happen back home. Marry her instantly to 'lock her in' then inevitably fail in a few years.

This pursuit isn't for everyone. A guy who can only manage two weeks a year needs
to change things around to have a chance. Maybe if he works 5 weekends in a row
he gets an extra week? maybe if he works extra hours? maybe he can get unpaid
leave? If you have to be creative then get creative.

I think a lot of people who end up flying jump at the first opportunity since they are getting something that would never happen back home. Marry her instantly to 'lock her in' then inevitably fail in a few years.

There would also be those that get sorely disappointed at failing with his VM/VO, wasting time and money. They would probably hit up local agencies out of desperation and isolation.

This is why the veterans will tell guys to have a back up plan. It's happened to me.
I was so sure that I was going to meet the perfect girl and then after arriving I realized
that it wasn't going to happen.

What 90% of the guys do is one of three things.
1. Hang dog around her looking for any sign no matter how bleak or subtle
that she might change her mind and become interested in you, suddenly
realizing you are what she wanted all along. That only works in Hollywood
and fairyland. The FSU is NOT fairyland.

2. Mope around feeling sorry for yourself until it's time to go home

3. Feel rejected and decide the girl is a scammer and plaster the poor girl
all over the internet. We have guys like that come here all the time. Don't
be that guy.

2tallbill's theory, is that the best way to get over one girl is in the arms of
another. Spend one evening feeling sorry for yourself and wake up the next
day with a fire under your @ss that if you get on it right now you might be
meeting a cute girl in a few hours for tea.

That's how I met my wife Angel Eyes. I went to Russia to meet a girl who I
had been writing with for several months. It didn't work out so I got on
Mamba.ru and Vk.com and started writing girls. After several dates, I came
across a girl with beautiful eyes that seemed to smile only at me. I set up a
date for coffee and I felt the connection, the mutual chemistry and interest
and I pursued her exclusively and married her.

[2tallbill]

Oh, you big liar.  We all know that you married the hottest woman you met. 

I thought that part was obvious 

She married you because she had very poor evaluative skills.  She also married you because she wanted to live in a tropical paradise.  You can't hide the truth from us.

Yes, it's actually quite nice today, the temperature is a balmy 31F (-1C) and the wind is
mild at 40 mph with gusts at 60-70 mph. There is snow flying horizontally across our front
yard and the wind is making a soothing howling sound. It will cool off a bit tonight at
19F (-7C). We have cooler weather coming but it's been a very tropical as of late. 

I should have suspected that she married me for the weather and scenic beauty that
you can only find in a place without mountains, oceans or trees.

[GatoMoon]

I was born and will die as a WOVO man

[Anotherkiwi]

I should have suspected that she married me for the weather and scenic beauty that you can only find in a place without mountains, oceans or trees.

You could always move to South Dekody!  I believe they have trees. 

[ML]

In my opinion, that method ends up with the girls figuring out what you are doing
and then they start playing games and you end up dating Sally three times when
you really aren't that interested in Sally and you can't get Peggy to agree to meet
you because she's suddenly always busy.

Bill, I did the WMVM several times.

I never encountered the two problems you outlined above.

Sure the gals knew I was meeting several of them.
No, I didn't tell them, they just weren't stupid.

In my correspondence prior to the trips, I did encounter a few (very few) that stated they didn't want me to meet other women, etc.  Those women were simply filtered out.

[2tallbill]

Bill, I did the WMVM several times.

I never encountered the two problems you outlined above.

If you read the trip reports there are many that do. I don't see the advantage of
trying to get to know them on a VM trip. You gotta keep all those facts straight
and for what?

As for myself, I would forget whether it was Sveta or Olya who collected
matryoshka dolls or was it Anna or Masha or Honey Bunny  who loves
tennis?

Once you meet in person you either have mutual chemistry or you
don't. You just memorized all kinds of crap about a girl who is getting
kicked to the curb because she pulled out her pack of cigs and fired up
or she shows up looking nothing like her photos and more like a 60 year
old lounge singer.

My advice and my theories are worth exactly what I'm charging for
them. The newbies and lurkers can read my advice, yours and a few
others and decide for themselves what plan best fits them, their
personality and their situation.