Hello from Doc406E

[DocE406]

Hello  out  there.   I'm  DocE  from  AZ,  and  have  already  met  some  nice  ladies  in  Ukraine  by  using  a  web-site  that  I  won't  name  because  I  discovered  it  has  a  rather  un-savory  reputation.   But,  it  did  enable  me  to  meet  these  young  ladies,  so  maybe  it  wasn't  so  bad.
   I  am  traveling  to   Ukraine  in  late  October  to  meet  a  couple  of  these  ladies  in  person.   I've  already  purchased  my  airplane  tickets,  have  planned  out  my  schedule,  and  am  now  in  the  process  of  finding  hotels/apartments/b&b's  to  stay  in  while  I  am  there.   I  have  been  doing  extensive  research  (I  think)  on  the  whole  RW  dating  thing,  mail-order  brides,  Ukraine,  etc,  and  feel  I  am  at  least  50%  of  the  way  prepared  for  my  trip.    But  there  is  always  more  to  learn,  so  I  found  and  joined  this  group.    I  look  forward  to  lots  of  advice,  and  answers  and  opinions  to  a  lot  of  my  questions  and  decisions,  whether  good  or  bad.   I  feel  the  more  I  can  learn  before  I  go,  the  better  prepared  I  will  be  once  I  get  there.
   One  question  right  now - is  anyone  else  planning  on  traveling  over  there  in  late  October?   It  would  be  nice  to  fly  over  with  someone  else  in  the  same  situation  as  myself,  at  least  as  far  as  Moscow,  where  I  change  planes.   

[I/O]

and  feel  I  am  at  least  50%  of  the  way  prepared

Confidence is an amazing thing - I've been married to one of these dolls for several years, we have 3 kids, I've been there more times than most ever will and in reality, I'm about 2% prepared for what comes tomorrow.

[Vinnvinny]

Welcome DocE.

From what you have written I would suggest that you avoid any lady under the age of 25 and you only meet those who speak English and who don't need a translator present. Where in Ukraine are you travelling to?

[Jumper]

Hello  out  there.   I'm  DocE  from  AZ,  and  have  already  met  some  nice  ladies  in  Ukraine  by  using  a  web-site  that  I  won't  name  because I  discovered  it  has  a  rather  un-savory  reputation.   But,  it  did  enable  me  to  meet  these  young  ladies, so  maybe  it  wasn't  so  bad.
   I  am  traveling  to   Ukraine  in  late  October  to  meet  a  couple  of  these  ladies  in  person.   I've  already  purchased  my  airplane  tickets,  have  planned  out  my  schedule,  and  am  now  in  the  process  of  finding  hotels/apartments/b&b's  to  stay  in  while  I  am  there.   I  have  been  doing  extensive  research  (I  think)  on  the  whole  RW  dating  thing,  mail-order  brides,  Ukraine,  etc,  and  feel  I  am  at  least  50%  of  the  way  prepared  for  my  trip.    But  there  is  always  more  to  learn,  so  I  found  and  joined  this  group.    I  look  forward  to  lots  of  advice,  and  answers  and  opinions  to  a  lot  of  my  questions  and  decisions,  whether  good  or  bad.   I  feel  the  more  I  can  learn  before  I  go,  the  better  prepared  I  will  be  once  I  get  there.
   One  question  right  now - is  anyone  else  planning  on  traveling  over  there  in  late  October?   It  would  be  nice  to  fly  over  with  someone  else  in  the  same  situation  as  myself,  at  least  as  far  as  Moscow,  where  I  change  planes.   

Welcome!!!!
 
 I'd encourage you to not only research things a lot more,
but to open another thread in the starting out section,
asking questions about the specific agency or at least business model, or meeting big agency girls


Why? because of your bolded words.
You havn't actually met them, and if the agency  has that unsavory of reputation,
it will likely  be even worse if you do.

It is great you are going..!!!!!
the only way to really learn in my opinion is on the ground there!


That said:
if your entire trip hinges on a known  unsavory agency ,and the girls contacted through that agency,and very likely paid to contact  you,  I would really look into a good plan B.

Actually i'd recommend another plan altogether, with meeting those girls as *the plan B or C* instead,
but the reasons and speculation for that , are  better left out of an introduction thread.

[Anotherkiwi]

Welcome DocE.

From what you have written I would suggest that you avoid any lady under the age of 25 and you only meet those who speak English and who don't need a translator present. Where in Ukraine are you travelling to?

   DocE.  However, as a 50 year old, I would respectfully suggest that 25 is waaaay too young for you to think about!  Seriously, even 35 is probably pushing the envelope for most of these women.  So, if you're meeting 20-somethings from an "unsavoury" website, be prepared to be eaten alive.  Sure, you might fluke an amazing connection with a young hottie, but remember that realistically a 10 year age gap is probably the outside limit, whatever the websites might say (I know we have one couple on here with a 37 year age gap, but that is most definitely the exception to the rule).
 
However, you're heading to a part of the world where a huge number of women in their 40s and 50s still look way better than most in the same age group in the west.  Many of them are also fluent in English and are quite prepared to be courted by a foreigner.  Relax, enjoy the trip, and don't get hung up on the ones with whom you have been corresponding so far.  There is no compulsion to come back home as an engaged man! 
 
And, as for being "50% prepared" - you're not!  Take serious note of I/O's post - that's far more realistic.
 
Good luck!

[newjason]

Hi Doc from Az.
I am Jason from Wa.

You are headed the route of the MOB seeker?
I am curious as to why and what brought you to this decision?

Confidence is an amazing thing - I've been married to one of these dolls for several years, we have 3 kids, I've been there more times than most ever will and in reality, I'm about 2% prepared for what comes tomorrow.

But Ignorance is Bliss.

Just when I think I know something..   It turns out that I had actually just closed my mind instead.
 

[BillyB]

I  have  been  doing  extensive  research  (I  think)  on  the  whole  RW  dating  thing, 

I'm sure you read some of the ladies you meet at that agency with a bad reputation may actually be using men for free dinners, gifts and getting a paycheck from the agency.
 
How many of those ladies you're scheduled to meet with felt enough about you that they give their phone number so you can call anytime?
 
Welcome to the forum Doc406E. I don't think you're giving yourself the best chance for success but the tickets are already bought. Come back and tell us if your trip was a success or not. If you try this a second time, we can give you some advice on which dating sites and agencies would be best to use.
 
 

[Gator]

Doc,

    Congratulations on making the decision to take a trip.  Now that you have decided to go, I suggest that you listen carefully to Jumper.  You have plenty of time to assure your trip will be fun and successful.

Welcome!!!!
 
 I'd encourage you to not only research things a lot more,
but to open another thread in the starting out section,
asking questions about the specific agency or at least business model, or meeting big agency girls


Why? because of your bolded words.
You havn't actually met them, and if the agency  has that unsavory of reputation,
it will likely  be even worse if you do.

It is great you are going..!!!!!
the only way to really learn in my opinion is on the ground there!


That said:
if your entire trip hinges on a known  unsavory agency ,and the girls contacted through that agency,and very likely paid to contact  you,  I would really look into a good plan B.

Actually i'd recommend another plan altogether, with meeting those girls as *the plan B or C* instead,
but the reasons and speculation for that , are  better left out of an introduction thread.

 
 
 

[Vinnvinny]

   DocE.  However, as a 50 year old, I would respectfully suggest that 25 is waaaay too young for you to think about! 

Just for clarification, my comment was a generic one as I wasn't aware at the time that Doc was 50. 

[DocE406]

     Thanks  for  the  input,  it  is  all  appreciated,  even  though  some  comments  are  somewhat  hard  to  fathom.
     For  instance,  when  I  said  I  felt  '50%  prepared',  that  means  I  feel  not  nearly  prepared  enough.   I  still  have  much  to  learn,  and  the  remark  about  being  confident  is  completely  incorrect.   I  am  very  unsure  of  what  I  am  doing,  but  I  am  learning  and  wish  to  continue  to  learn  here  and  on  a  couple  other  similar  sites  too.
     And,  I  never  'bolded'  any  words  -  where  did  that  come  from?
     Also,  where  did  the  25  year  age  come  from?   I  never  said  anything  about  anyone's  age  anywhere,  nor  will  I  since  I  value  my  privacy  and  my  lady  friends'  privacy  very  much.    So  let's  just  drop  that  remark  as  well,  please.
     As  to  where  I  am  going,  I  will  only  say  somewhere  around  the  Crimea  peninsula,  any  more  specific  details  are  private  as  well.
     Of  the  several  ladies  I  had  been  corresponding  with,  I  discovered  1  was  a  fake,  sending  me  1  or  2  letters  a  day,  which  I  had  to  pay  to  read.   Some  of  these  were  poems  or  song  lyrics  that  were  probably  just  copied  and  pasted.    Pretty  obvious  she  was  one  of  those  paid  letter  writers,  especially  when  I  tracked  her  e-mails  to  California.    I  don't  talk  to  her  (or  him  -  some  guy  named  Boris  maybe?)  anymore.
     I  have  obtained  the  e-mail  addresses  of  the  other  ladies,  and  all  communication  is  via  e-mail  now.   No  more  using  the  agency,  so  no  more  money  being  spent  opening  and  reading  letters.    I  have  told  these  ladies  I  won't  use  the  agency  anymore,  and  they  all  still  e-mail  me  regularly.
     Also,  I  have  found  3  of  these  ladies  on  Facebook  and  VK  (the  Russian  version  of  Facebook)  and  have  friended  them  there.   (I  invisible  all  my  friends  on  those  sites,  so  they  won't  learn  about  each  other.   I  hope!!)    So,  with  the  e-mails,  and  FB  and  VK,  at  least  I  am  reasonably  sure  these  ladies  are  for  real.   No  more  Boris'.
     I  have  researched  the  agency  I  used,  both  before  and  after  I  joined.    Of  course,  I  learned  a  lot  more  after,  since  I  have  been  researching  and  learning  for  6  months  now  about  everything  to  do  with  this  subject.    There  are  a  lot  of  agencies  out  there,  far  more  than  I  would  have  believed.   It  is  amazing,  actually.    And  a  lot  of  them  are  not  very  trustworthy,  to  say  the  least.   But,  since  I  am  a  firm  believer  in  'Buyer  Beware' , I  have  been  very  careful,  and  have  never  stopped  my  researching  and  learning.   I  am  also  a  big  believer  in  that.
     So,  Mr.  Jumper,  if  my  stated  plan  should  be  a  plan  'B'  or  plan  'C',  what  should  my  plan  'A'  be?    Please,  I  very  much  would  like  your  opinion  on  this,  perhaps  by  a  private  message  or  something.   I  only  want  to  learn,  even  if  it  hurts  a  little.
     Mr.  Jason  from  WA,  I  appreciate  your  question.   Even  though  I  am  fairly  new  to  this,  I  have  learned  quite  a  bit  already,  and  have  some  information  to  share  with  others.    I  assume  MOB  means  Mail  Order  Bride,  is  this  correct?   If  so,  I  decided  to  try  this  method  because  I  have  pretty  much  given  up  on  American  women.   Can't  find  anyone  worth  a  darn  around  here,  or  the  ones  that  are  worthwhile  are  already  married  to  some  lucky  guy  that  isn't  me.  I  started  looking  at  Asian  ladies  first,  then  found  the  Russian  ladies,  and  became  fascinated.    So  I  have  invested  a  few  hundred  dollars  in  reading  letters,  and  am  now  planning  my  trip  to  visit  some  ladies  in  Ukraine  that  seem  nice  and  that  appear real.           
     Now,  since  I  didn't  just  fall  out  of  the  tree  yesterday,  I  am  very  aware  that  these  ladies  are  quite  possibly  scammers,  or  fakes,  or  out  to  fleece  me  for  everything  and  anything  I've  got.   If,  when  I  get  over  there,  the  ladies  that  I  meet  do  anything  suspicious  or  out  of  line,  I  will  of  course  say  goodbye,  and  go  on  to  the  next  one  or  find  a  tour  or  something.    I  am  going  into  this  with  my  eyes  open,  hoping  for  the  best,  but  being  ready  for  the  worst.   Usually  what  happens  then  is  somewhere  in  the  middle,  which  will  be  just  fine.
     I  hope  anyone  who  has  managed  to  read  this  epic  so  far  isn't  too  bored,  and  I  do  very  much  appreciate  your  patience  and  your  opinions  and  knowledge.   Keep  them  coming,  please,  it  all  helps,  even  the  painful  stuff.    While  I  do  actually  hope  to  return  from  Ukraine  engaged  to  a  beautiful  younger  lady,  if  that  doesn't  happen,  if  I  don't  even  meet  anyone,  I  still  plan  to  enjoy  my  trip  and  see  the  sights  if  nothing  else.    The  trip  is  what  is  most  important,  the  cake,  and  meeting  the  ladies  and  perhaps,  just  maybe,  finding  that  one  almost  perfect  one,  will  be  the  frosting  on  top.   It  will  add  to  the  experience.   
     
     
       
     
       

[Daveman]

   Doc,


That's great that you'be made contact away from the agency site.  You mention regular email. Have you met them at skype? or called? 

[I/O]

While  I  do  actually  hope  to  return  from  Ukraine  engaged  to  a  beautiful  younger  lady

That'd actually be a nightmare in most cases (there are, I admit, exceptions). A good outcome would be to return home with the thought there is or are some people of interest.

[Gator]

Doc,
Please keep in mind:
 
1.  RWD members want to help newbies such as you.   Some of us have different styles for making suggestions. 

2.  There are many alternative approaches for romancing FSUW.   All of us have different opinions on how best to proceed.  No approach is ideal or 100% foolproof.    Much depends upon the man's situation.  In the absence of more particulars about your situation, our suggestions will be generic and thus could miss the mark.
 
 

And,  I  never  'bolded'  any  words  -  where  did  that  come  from?

Frequent method for identifying what caught the member's eye.  Some members don't do this and instead make assumptions.

As  to  where  I  am  going,  I  will  only  say  somewhere  around  the  Crimea  peninsula,  any  more  specific  details  are  private  as  well.

Crimea has many interesting places to visit separate from meeting women.  Enjoy!
 

     I  have  obtained  the  e-mail  addresses  of  the  other  ladies,  and  all communication  is  via  e-mail  now.

 
 
Excellent, but as Dave suggested, get on the phone or Skype.   That is 10x more revealing than emails.

If  so,  I  decided  to  try  this  method because  I  have  pretty  much  given  up on  American  women.   Can't  find  anyone worth  a  darn  around  here,  or  the  ones  that  are  worthwhile  are  already married  to  some  lucky  guy  that  isn't  me.

Many men say this.  One problem is that it elevates one's expectations for FSUW for a first trip.  The implications of such thinking should be clear.  Nevertheless, FSUW are very interesting for reasons other than being younger and better looking on average than the typical AW you date.

  While  I  do  actually  hope  to return  from  Ukraine  engaged  to  a  beautiful  younger  lady....[/quote]
 
Speaking of elevated expectations.   You are taking a WMVM trip.  I suggest your goals should be 1) have a good time and 2) find a woman you want to visit again.
 
 

[Anotherkiwi]

Thanks  for  the  input,  it  is  all  appreciated,  even  though  some  comments  are  somewhat  hard  to  fathom.  For  instance,  when  I  said  I  felt  '50%  prepared',  that  means  I  feel  not  nearly  prepared  enough.

 
Fair enough now that you have clarified what you meant, but everyone on here is very much under the influence of Russian thinking - "what you see [posted] is what you get!"  In other words, most statements such as yours will be taken at face value by a lot of people, so if you say "50%" people will interpret that as actually meaning "50%!"
 

Also,  where  did  the  25  year  age  come  from?   I  never  said  anything  about  anyone's  age  anywhere,  nor  will  I  since  I  value  my  privacy  and  my  lady  friends'  privacy  very  much.    So  let's  just  drop  that  remark  as  well,  please.

DocE, in your own words:
 

Hello out there. I'm DocE from AZ, and have already met some nice ladies in Ukraine by using a web-site that I won't name because I discovered it has a rather un-savory reputation. But, it did enable me to meet these young ladies, so maybe it wasn't so bad.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm treading on your toes, but most people in this pursuit would not call someone in their forties "young," so realistically we must assume that you're looking at someone (or a few someones) in their thirties, possibly (and only possibly) even in their twenties.  And, for what it's worth, what I wrote was nothing compared with some of the stuff which other newbies (including me) have had to endure.
 
Although your final statement could also be ambiguous as far as age is concerned, you've also again mentioned the magic word!

...While  I  do  actually  hope  to  return  from  Ukraine  engaged  to  a  beautiful  younger  lady,...

Of course you could mean someone who is 48 or 49...couldn't you?  Somehow I doubt it.
 

  if  that  doesn't  happen,  if  I  don't  even  meet  anyone,  I  still  plan  to  enjoy  my  trip  and  see  the  sights  if  nothing  else.    The  trip  is  what  is  most  important,  the  cake,  and  meeting  the  ladies  and  perhaps,  just  maybe,  finding  that  one  almost  perfect  one,  will  be  the  frosting  on  top.   It  will  add  to  the  experience.

Perfect!  I do sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[Muzh]

     Thanks  for  the  input,  it  is  all  appreciated,  even  though  some  comments  are  somewhat  hard  to  fathom.
     For  instance,  when  I  said  I  felt  '50%  prepared',  that  means  I  feel  not  nearly  prepared  enough.   I  still  have  much  to  learn,  and  the  remark  about  being  confident  is  completely  incorrect.   I  am  very  unsure  of  what  I  am  doing,  but  I  am  learning  and  wish  to  continue  to  learn  here  and  on  a  couple  other  similar  sites  too.
     And,  I  never  'bolded'  any  words  -  where  did  that  come  from?
     Also,  where  did  the  25  year  age  come  from?   I  never  said  anything  about  anyone's  age  anywhere,  nor  will  I  since  I  value  my  privacy  and  my  lady  friends'  privacy  very  much.    So  let's  just  drop  that  remark  as  well,  please.
     As  to  where  I  am  going,  I  will  only  say  somewhere  around  the  Crimea  peninsula,  any  more  specific  details  are  private  as  well.
     Of  the  several  ladies  I  had  been  corresponding  with,  I  discovered  1  was  a  fake,  sending  me  1  or  2  letters  a  day,  which  I  had  to  pay  to  read.   Some  of  these  were  poems  or  song  lyrics  that  were  probably  just  copied  and  pasted.    Pretty  obvious  she  was  one  of  those  paid  letter  writers,  especially  when  I  tracked  her  e-mails  to  California.    I  don't  talk  to  her  (or  him  -  some  guy  named  Boris  maybe?)  anymore.
     I  have  obtained  the  e-mail  addresses  of  the  other  ladies,  and  all  communication  is  via  e-mail  now.   No  more  using  the  agency,  so  no  more  money  being  spent  opening  and  reading  letters.    I  have  told  these  ladies  I  won't  use  the  agency  anymore,  and  they  all  still  e-mail  me  regularly.
     Also,  I  have  found  3  of  these  ladies  on  Facebook  and  VK  (the  Russian  version  of  Facebook)  and  have  friended  them  there.   (I  invisible  all  my  friends  on  those  sites,  so  they  won't  learn  about  each  other.   I  hope!!)    So,  with  the  e-mails,  and  FB  and  VK,  at  least  I  am  reasonably  sure  these  ladies  are  for  real.   No  more  Boris'.
   

LMAO

  DocE

I'll just tell you what many newbies have tried. Some (few) have succeeded while many have failed doing the following:

1) A large age gap. 15 years is pushing the limit and the younger the girl, the higher the chances for getting burned. I personally know of 2 who crashed and burned; BADLY.

2) Getting engaged after spending 2 or 3 days with her after a couple of days skyeping. Spend some time getting to know her works wonders because scammers are not patient and will drop you like a used diaper after two weeks of skype and no money received.

3) Which brings me to sending money. Between you and me, there are no scammers. Just foolish men sending money to strangers or buying something too good to be true.

4) Finally, no, you don't look younger for your age. The sooner you accept this the better you will be.

Now, these are NOT digs at you. IF you spend some time here reading previous posts, you'll see the above is pretty much generic.

Keep in mind we are here to help. Take thing at face value and develop a thick skin. Eventually, you'll make good friends and who knows, maybe meet with them after you are married to your soul mate.

The best advice I can give you is: be realistic.

Bon Chance

[Hammer2722]

Welcome to the forum Doc. Try not to take any of the suggestions too personally!!! Everyone here has your best interest at heart. I do hope you have a great trip.

[DocE406]

     Oustanding  comments !!!   Thank  you  very  much  for  all  those  recent  posts.    I  understand  what  is  being  said  to  me  much  better  now.
     Please  excuse  me  if  I  sounded  (worded?)  rude  in  my  extremely  long  post  yesterday.   There  was  a  lot  there  that  seemed  to  me  to  be  assumptions,  such  as  the  ages  of  the  young  ladies  I  am  visiting.    True,  one  of  the  ladies  is  in  her  20's,  but  I  am  visiting  her  first  since  she  speaks  excellent  English,  and  I  will  be  able  to  get  somewhat  familiar  with  Ukraine  without  having  to  worry  about  the  language  problem  right  away.   Then,  I  am  visiting  a  lady  who  speaks  about  2  words  of  English,  so  I  will  get  used  to  the  language  problem  somewhat  before  meeting  the  next  lady,  who  I  am  most  interested  in.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  somewhat  mercenary  approach,  using  2  ladies  for  practice,  but  this  is  my  plan  for  now.   Of  course,  depending  on  the  situation,  this  plan  could  change.    As  a  retired  military  type  guy,  I  am  used  to  making  fairly  detailed  plans,  but  am  also  aware  that  plans  always  change.    Surely  you  have  heard  of  Murphy's  Law?
     So,  if  we  want  to  stick  with  the  military  analogy,  and  with  John  Boyd's  OODA  loop,  I  have  already  OBSERVED  the  enemy  (met  the  ladies  online).   Now  I  am  in  the  ORIENTATE  mode,  where  I  learn  all  that  I  can.    After  this  phase  comes  the  DECISION,  where  I  make  my  final  plans.    Then  comes  ATTACK,  where  I  actually  meet  the  ladies  in  person,  and  the  loop  will  continue  from  there.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  bit  extreme,  but  it  is  a  valid  method  of  dealing  with  a  myriad  of  situations,  and  it  looks  like  it  may  work  here.    Perhaps  this  is  a  new  approach  -  as  always,  I  welcome  any  and  all  comments  and  opinions.
     Am  I  wrong  in  comparing  these  ladies  to  the  'enemy'?   Maybe,  but  these  are  people  in  a  far  away  foreign  land  who  I  do  not  know  very  well,  so  I  must  be  very  careful.
     I  like  the  idea  of  phone  calls  and  using  SKYPE.    I  have  2  phone  numbers,  so  will  try  to  arrange  a  call  or  2.    Plus,  I  will  sign  up  for  this  SKYPE  thing  and  give  that  a  shot.
    Thanks  again,  and  keep  the  comments  and  suggestions  coming.    It  is  most  appreciated.       

[I/O]

Am  I  wrong  in  comparing  these  ladies  to  the  'enemy'?

Nah, love and war, you know what they say, all's fair - not much difference. 
 

Surely  you  have  heard  of  Murphy's  Law?

Murphy should be summarily shot.

[newjason]

     Oustanding  comments !!!   Thank  you  very  much  for  all  those  recent  posts.    I  understand  what  is  being  said  to  me  much  better  now.
     Please  excuse  me  if  I  sounded  (worded?)  rude  in  my  extremely  long  post  yesterday.   There  was  a  lot  there  that  seemed  to  me  to  be  assumptions,  such  as  the  ages  of  the  young  ladies  I  am  visiting.    True,  one  of  the  ladies  is  in  her  20's,  but  I  am  visiting  her  first  since  she  speaks  excellent  English,  and  I  will  be  able  to  get  somewhat  familiar  with  Ukraine  without  having  to  worry  about  the  language  problem  right  away.   Then,  I  am  visiting  a  lady  who  speaks  about  2  words  of  English,  so  I  will  get  used  to  the  language  problem  somewhat  before  meeting  the  next  lady,  who  I  am  most  interested  in.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  somewhat  mercenary  approach,  using  2  ladies  for  practice,  but  this  is  my  plan  for  now.   Of  course,  depending  on  the  situation,  this  plan  could  change.    As  a  retired  military  type  guy,  I  am  used  to  making  fairly  detailed  plans,  but  am  also  aware  that  plans  always  change.    Surely  you  have  heard  of  Murphy's  Law?
     So,  if  we  want  to  stick  with  the  military  analogy,  and  with  John  Boyd's  OODA  loop,  I  have  already  OBSERVED  the  enemy  (met  the  ladies  online).   Now  I  am  in  the  ORIENTATE  mode,  where  I  learn  all  that  I  can.    After  this  phase  comes  the  DECISION,  where  I  make  my  final  plans.    Then  comes  ATTACK,  where  I  actually  meet  the  ladies  in  person,  and  the  loop  will  continue  from  there.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  bit  extreme,  but  it  is  a  valid  method  of  dealing  with  a  myriad  of  situations,  and  it  looks  like  it  may  work  here.    Perhaps  this  is  a  new  approach  -  as  always,  I  welcome  any  and  all  comments  and  opinions.
     Am  I  wrong  in  comparing  these  ladies  to  the  'enemy'?   Maybe,  but  these  are  people  in  a  far  away  foreign  land  who  I  do  not  know  very  well,  so  I  must  be  very  careful.
     I  like  the  idea  of  phone  calls  and  using  SKYPE.    I  have  2  phone  numbers,  so  will  try  to  arrange  a  call  or  2.    Plus,  I  will  sign  up  for  this  SKYPE  thing  and  give  that  a  shot.
    Thanks  again,  and  keep  the  comments  and  suggestions  coming.    It  is  most  appreciated.       

Be sure to take Lady 1 on the dates with Lady2 as a translator, and then take them both on the date with Lady3 so that they can talk you up. 
It's a perfect plan! 
What could possibly go wrong ?

LOL

 

 

[Chicagoguy]

One caveat. This often takes longer than originally planed and can cost more than we once thought. Time and money. But if you can handle it, it is a wonderful experience. At least it was for me. It was worth it.

[Jumper]

And,  I  never  'bolded'  any  words  -  where  did  that  come  from?

no big deal..
When I quoted you, I bolded your words that I was specifically talking about.


You asked about plan B , or C or A.
from your initial post-  I would have advised you to save those ladies for a plan B, if met thru  an agency with a bad reputation, and rather concentrate in these remaining weeks before travel in trying to find women you could be in contact directly.
Finding someone with direct contact info, that you seemed to find compatible being , your plan A.

However, you have cleared up in following posts that you do indeed have direct contact with the women you plan to meet.Very unusual for unsavory agencies .
So that is great!and it changes my earlier advice somewhat.

I know the agencies a bit more than i should I suppose.lol  So it causes concern when anyone posts they are meeting women from a known unsavory agency.
The chance that anything at all  is sincere in these agencies is incredibly slim,
and the level of deception goes far deeper than most even experienced in this venture realize.Most should just avoid them entirely, or anyone associated with them.
There are simply  better ways to *look*

If meeting someone from such an agency , one of the few good signs is if you have direct contact info,and if they are regularly staying in touch with you.
Friend- ing you on VK or facebook is also a good sign.
Granted I still advise to keep your eyes wide open,which you seem to have.

Since you do have direct contact info, absolutely move things along to skype or phone calls before travel. I've traveled around the world all my life practically, and would do so on a whim, but realistically, I wont go across town to date some woman that I  don't know without a phone call, and so that certainly applies to going to another country?
If they don't speak English ,  there are a couple  members here who offer
3 way translated calling, at very reasonable rates.
I would be speaking ,by skype or phone ,to anyone on your list you plan to visit, even if its a brief conversation it, it  should give you some valuable insight.

The agency name in unimportant, there are way more than anyone can imagine.Most of the unsavory ones have thousands and thousands of profiles,and the reputation those agencies have is generally very well deserved.

You have a plan and direct contact with women you want to meet.So contact them by skype and phone and see if its still who you want to see in a couple weeks.
(if any balk at getting on the phone with a translator,personally i'd drop them immediately,mostly from the means you met them already being suspect.)

If you seem to have great connection with someone ..cool. go see how it plays out!!
but on a first visit,  its really just  a first date..
and if you are visiting more than one person,  I just wouldn't hold the  expectation to take it to  relationship level in that trip,  or engagement. Just someone you found you'd like to see again seriously.
You probably wouldn't hold a relationship expectation for some apparently nice women 5 states over from you in a similar visit scenario?
And this doesnt change across the big pond,and many Ukrainian women  would find  that level of  expectation odd.
Others would be ok with that, i know one now that would!! lol
but i find her odd , and so do here female friends there

Since you are going to see several, I would have someone like members Jack 's
phone number in your pocket and speak with him prior your trip,
as he and his staff, could prove invaluable if you find yourself on the ground
there with no one of real interest,in a city and region you are unfamiliar with.
Jack would have staff in country to assist you in travel simply for tourism sake or meeting
other women or local trusted agencies, interpreters  in the city you are in.

Dependent on the city there are other members here that could possibly help out,
and if in your shoes,with about a month left before travel,  I would certainly still be actively looking on some of the FSU/ ukraine free personal sites, VK, etc..there are a list of such websites  in many threads.

With all the cations from here, and particular local friends and family,
it can be  easy to become overly paranoid, i'd also advise against that..it kills any chance with a sincere women.
A sincere ukrainian woman just generally isnt going to fit any of the stereotypes fellow westerners often have.So while its good to have your eyes wide open,
stay grounded, open to new things  and enjoy the trip and time sent with someone  interesting,in an interesting country.
and if you find yourself  near crimea , I'd advise that you go there, its a beautiful place to visit.




good luck!!!

and you are traveling in Ukraine!!
absolutely count on Murphys law being in full effect for travel plans/ connections
and most any small and big details.Just accept it ,and shrug like any local
*eta Ukraine*

[It worked for me]

welcome Doc,

muhzh gives the best advice above,

Dont be put off by too many others negative comments,

Its down to the individual, as we know everyones different,

Many have had success many havent.

Go in with the right mentality and your 1/2 way there already!

Good luck,

Send me your skype and we will have a chat

jonny

J

[Globetrotter]

Doc, Welcome.  As you are a doc, and even a crappy one will earn 250K/yr, money would not seem to be a problem for you, whereby time might be a consideration.  My question is........why are you so Hell bent on being a "one week wonder" engaged after one visit?  Would you do this with a girl from home where you live?  We have people here who married children, they being middle-aged, and they swear all will be well.  However, the hourglass has been turnd over and the sand is flowing.  Mind you, 2 years and one day is the magic number.  Think of the justice system that will be used when divorce kicks these guys in the fat ass.  Theirs, or ours?  Ours, I think.
However, with a divorce rate here at 50%, and in the FSU it is closer to 60%,  do you feel lucky?
 
As a doc, we know you are educated, but "smart" is another matter.  If you don't have the social skills to be caring and sharing and many other things, and expect a girl to support you no matter what...........you are pissing up a rope!
 
Anyway, welcome........and have a pre-nup! 

[newjason]

     True,  one  of  the  ladies  is  in  her  20's,  but  I  am  visiting  her  first  since  she  speaks  excellent  English,  and  I  will  be  able  to  get  somewhat  familiar  with  Ukraine  without  having  to  worry  about  the  language  problem  right  away.   

Then,  I  am  visiting  a  lady  who  speaks  about  2  words  of  English,  so  I  will  get  used  to  the  language  problem  somewhat  before  meeting  the  next  lady,  who  I  am  most  interested  in.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  somewhat  mercenary  approach,  using  2  ladies  for  practice,  but  this  is  my  plan  for  now.   Of  course,  depending  on  the  situation,  this  plan  could  change.    As  a  retired  military  type  guy,  I  am  used  to  making  fairly  detailed  plans,  but  am  also  aware  that  plans  always  change.    Surely  you  have  heard  of  Murphy's  Law?
     So,  if  we  want  to  stick  with  the  military  analogy,  and  with  John  Boyd's  OODA  loop,  I  have  already  OBSERVED  the  enemy  (met  the  ladies  online).   Now  I  am  in  the  ORIENTATE  mode,  where  I  learn  all  that  I  can.    After  this  phase  comes  the  DECISION,  where  I  make  my  final  plans.    Then  comes  ATTACK,  where  I  actually  meet  the  ladies  in  person,  and  the  loop  will  continue  from  there.
     Maybe  this  seems  a  bit  extreme,  but  it  is  a  valid  method  of  dealing  with  a  myriad  of  situations,  and  it  looks  like  it  may  work  here.    Perhaps  this  is  a  new  approach  -  as  always,  I  welcome  any  and  all  comments  and  opinions.
     Am  I  wrong  in  comparing  these  ladies  to  the  'enemy'?   Maybe,  but  these  are  people  in  a  far  away  foreign  land  who  I  do  not  know  very  well,  so  I  must  be  very  careful.
     I  like  the  idea  of  phone  calls  and  using  SKYPE.    I  have  2  phone  numbers,  so  will  try  to  arrange  a  call  or  2.    Plus,  I  will  sign  up  for  this  SKYPE  thing  and  give  that  a  shot.
    Thanks  again,  and  keep  the  comments  and  suggestions  coming.    It  is  most  appreciated.       

Hey Doc,
I was joking in my last post, but I do have some serious questions for you.

1. Why are you in such a hurry to get married?
2. Why do you think that lady number one will be the solution to your logistical problem in ukraine? remember she is 20 something...   
3. Do you know how to speak Russian?  at all?
 
You are talking about the strategy of a military battle.
Keep in mind, you are not going on a big game hunt and trying to bag a trophy.
But, from the way you describe your plans, it almost seems like it.

Ask yourself honestly, how much success would you have with this plan going after the local college girls? 
They DO speak the same language as you...

If you can answer honestly, then your answer should little no none.

Now, ask yourself,  why will your odds be better in another country, where you know little to nothing about anything, and can't read or write, and will be there for a week or two , and then gone. The language barrier, is a disadvantage for you, not for them.

You have not MET anyone yet.  You have some pen-pals on the net. That's all.

If you think you can just go there,  buy a wife,  and be back safe at home within a week or two, you are high.

Seriously Doc,
Keep your plans more simple and flexible.
Go there to have a good time and learn some things about Mother Russia  and the fine people who love her so much. Try to make some friends there. Learn your way around and take some photos.
This way, you have reasonable goals that are attainable.
Then you will come tell us all the stuff you learned and plot your next move.

[Lily]

Hello Doc  ,
Newjason asks good questions. It is good that you plan to travel there to see everyone and everything in person.
If you are not sure about the language and understanding Russians, you could have a skype with me and hear a typical Russian accented English I am Russian myself and live in Toronto, therefore no time diference. You are welcome to PM me your skype ID.