After a little experience, but still a long way from "MARRIAGE"

[IAmZon]

A couple points and an important question:

Point 1, Essentially EE and Russia and Ukraine is a place where AM can find traditional women.  Most of these women are thinner and more feminine than AM.  Most of these women are not confused about their gender, as is the case with AW. BUT, that is changing!

Point 2, The MOB business and tours pollute the waters considerably.  It is a good idea to meet women outside those influences.  Harder, but possible.

Point 3, Especially, in Russia, but also in Ukraine, the idea of being a "rich American" is as impressive as it was 10 years ago.  Most men have to "up their game."

Lesson 1 - I tried online dating sites again, and found them to be a waste of time, AGAIN.
Lesson 2 - I will do social networking in Russian / other language sites when, and if, I am ready - I will hire some help to sort and filter.

QUESTION: The vibe in Ukraine, as I have written in the past, is more than meets the eye.  It requires time and luck to be successful there.   Travel to Russia is taunting, the place is getting damn expensive, and there is more than a little anti-American sentiment in the air.  I WONDER WHY there is not more activity in Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Estonia? 

It seems like a better avenue for many reasons?

[Hammer2722]

QUESTION:  I WONDER WHY there is not more activity in Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Estonia? 

It seems like a better avenue for many reasons?

Perhaps its because the women from these countries are part of the EU and can literally go where ever they want already. Why would they need a WM?

[Shadow]

Point 1 : To be judged by Americans, preferred thos who are not in to hype and have good relationships with local women.

Point 2 : The busines does not pollute the waters, the waters are polluted by insincere seekers who attract practices that profit from them.

Point 3 : Especially in Russia, but also in Ukraine, women hunting a rich husband have options. As 'rich Americans' are less picky and more accepting of 'cultural behaviour' (biatching) than local men, they are preferred by those who miss out on the highest ranks, especially outside the larger cities.

As for the other countries, its a numbers game and to find 0.01% of 146 million is easier as to find it from 5 million. 

[Faux Pas]

QUESTION: The vibe in Ukraine, as I have written in the past, is more than meets the eye.  It requires time and luck to be successful there.   Travel to Russia is taunting, the place is getting damn expensive, and there is more than a little anti-American sentiment in the air.  I WONDER WHY there is not more activity in Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Estonia? 

It seems like a better avenue for many reasons?

I've been to Russia many times. I haven't once encountered any anti-American sentiment. Quite the opposite. I have ran into more than once, an old communist hardliner and a few Vets that pine for the old days but even those are far and few in between. For most of those it isn't anti-American as it is pro-Soviet. Even those are welcoming and friendly once they find out you are.

Hammer pretty much nailed it. It is all economics. You seem to have the need to making meeting women, as easy as clubbing baby seals. If so, stick with Columbia, Ukraine, Philippines. It's not as easy in Russia but it is still easier than the US to meet quality attractive women. Russia is as expensive as the US and Europe. Moscow is I believe one of the most expensive cities in the world. Yes there are still some desperate women there if that is what you seek. For a quality sincere woman you need to up your game and be a quality sincere man FWIW

[IAmZon]

Perhaps its because the women from these countries are part of the EU and can literally go where ever they want already. Why would they need a WM?

OOCH!  That's gotta hurt a large group of readers here!  hahahaha

Why would they NEED a Western Man?   (I noticed you did not use the verb, WANT)

BUYERS BEWARE

[GoodOlBoy]

OOCH!  That's gotta hurt a large group of readers.....

Anytime you "disturb" the fantasy, it always hurts.
 
GOB

PS.... There is a prime example of the fantasy I refer to visiting Ukraine right now. He looks like "Gramps" with a 5 yo. girl.

[Jumper]

riv

I feel , you make things more difficult than they actually are.


It really is no problem for a sincere man of even moderate means to meet a sincere attractive woman in the FSU (any FSU country,but generally belarus, russia, ukraine) that is interested in him as a man, not a walking ATM,  simply looking for a good foundation for a family.
There are just countless women in no relationship or marginal relationships that don't look good for a future family who would be open to a stable serious relationship.

will the relationship progress to marriage?
just like locally , the odds are the same that it may continue, or fades,prior to matrimony?
has anyone ever noticed just how many engagements dont reach the alter locally ?
a lot.Why would that be any different?

I certainly recognize the hurdles of cross cultural relationships,
but i often see posters over stating the difficulties as well, or perhaps its more that they dont seem to acknowledge that any relationship, anywhere, often doesn't lead to marriage ,or a lasting marriage, its just life.
its not because of a separate culture, MOB influences or prejudices.
The root problems are generally just human nature of relationships.

[Jumper]

i'd add-
to the doubters-
find  any normal man, with a decent job, and rounded personality,
nothing special just a sound man interested in a normal family life.
 living in ukraine ,
who isnt married and who is not in HUGE demand.


Show me this man,as i've never seen him.
 Then tell me how hard things are?

They are only as hard as one makes them?


yes the local man has the advantage of location, language /culture.

so , yes you might have to overcome the language barrier, that's the real difficulty!!
So  choose to have the time and patience to get past that or date those with decent english, or those who are willing to actively study and have some aptitude for picking up language.
and you might have to be interesting and a well rounded personality.

you will have to treat each potential relationship exactly the same as you would locally, initiating it with the same level of trust you naturally would,
and accept on all fronts that the  distance traveled means nothing.yes that leaves you open to scam or other BS, so what? nothing ventured nothing gained.

you might have to over come a sex tourist stigma,
that should realistically take you a day or two face to face.
or even a couple weeks, speak with actions not words.
If you are a sincere man, and give no cause for doubt..
and  it takes longer, lets be realistic-  she likely is simply not a personality you would
want to pursue.Pursue women who also give the benefit of the doubt.

Theses are all just hurdles,  nothing like climbing mount Everest.

[Daveman]

A couple points and an important question:

Point 1, Essentially EE and Russia and Ukraine is a place where AM can find traditional women.  Most of these women are thinner and more feminine than AM.  Most of these women are not confused about their gender, as is the case with AW. BUT, that is changing!

If by *traditional* you mean women dressing more sexy, and having more separated gender roles, then yes. June Cleaver types? Not as likely.

Point 2, The MOB business and tours pollute the waters considerably.  It is a good idea to meet women outside those influences.  Harder, but possible.

Here we differ on the first part but agree on the second.  The reason I disagree on the first is that almost every single (unmarried) woman I have encountered over there wants me to introduce her to my friends, and the married ones always seem to have friends who are interested in meeting my friends.  I don't play matchmaker. Hardly a sign of pollution by foreign men.


The *agency* waters may very well be polluted beyond potability, I really don't know.

Point 3, Especially, in Russia, but also in Ukraine, the idea of being a "rich American" is as impressive as it was 10 years ago.  Most men have to "up their game."

did you mean "isn't"?  I really don't see a need for anyone to "up their game", at least not the way it sounds.  I'd say rather than "up the game", just change the field of play. 

Lesson 1 - I tried online dating sites again, and found them to be a waste of time, AGAIN.
Lesson 2 - I will do social networking in Russian / other language sites when, and if, I am ready - I will hire some help to sort and filter.

QUESTION: The vibe in Ukraine, as I have written in the past, is more than meets the eye.  It requires time and luck to be successful there.   Travel to Russia is taunting, the place is getting damn expensive, and there is more than a little anti-American sentiment in the air.  I WONDER WHY there is not more activity in Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Estonia? 

It seems like a better avenue for many reasons?

It requires time and luck to be successful anywhere.  The term "success" is also  relevant.  I have little doubt that if I had put as much time and effort in USA, or any of those countries above, i would have found a compatible woman, developed relations, and eventually married. 

[IAmZon]

I feel , you make things more difficult than they actually are.

Oh, I am not complaining ... just a little bored perhaps, so I am musing.   I think I have been very clear that all a guy can really want is a fair chance, and those chances are plentiful.  I think it also is worth noting the stigmas, however, too.  Especially for those that think going on a tour and meeting 100 women is a good place to start

There are only so many days in a year, so it is important to choose wisely.   I have a group of friends in one city in Ukraine, so that is a draw in, and of itself.   However, I am strongly considering making a similar investment in another city, in another Eastern European country.  You will forgive me if I say no more.  However, I do find it odd / interesting that more in not writing here about Latvia, Estonia, Poland, etc...  It seems strange to me?!?!? 

[Muzh]

If by *traditional* you mean women dressing more sexy, and having more separated gender roles, then yes. June Cleaver types? Not as likely.

Oh boy, this summer I saw "Far From Heaven" at the Williamstown Theater Festival (aka WTF) and this musical is based in the fifties. Of course, everyone was dressed to the time period and, god damn it, the women looked outrageously sexy with those tight pencil skirts and pumps.

After the show we went to the "Cabaret" where the performers from the plays (The Elephant Man was the other) will sing and mingle with the attendees. Guess what? I barely recognized the women from the play because they were dressed contemporary and they were nothing to look at. Seriously.

[IAmZon]

I think it is interesting to expose the notion that economic disparity fuels the MOB industry. Turn the light up more please.

If women were given the greatest amount of education and freedoms and choices as possible (something I am certainly NOT against), human beings end up with .... modern day American, United Kingdom, and Norway.  The women and men are very equal, fat, and rather sort of lazy.  The next step may well be for all of us to lay in bed and get hooked into some imaginary machine, where we are all beautiful and stay young forever?

I may be guilty of seeing the dating pool in modern day USA as less than modern day Ukraine, but I must say ... I did not see a very big difference at all between meeting women in Eastern European Countries versus Ukraine - none if fact.   I did not feel any greater "advantage" in Kharkov than I did in Bratislava or Bruno.   I assume the same would be true if I spent time in Warsaw, or Riga.

[Jumper]

Oh, I am not complaining ... just a little bored perhaps, so I am musing.   I think I have been very clear that all a guy can really want is a fair chance, and those chances are plentiful.  I think it also is worth noting the stigmas, however, too.  Especially for those that think going on a tour and meeting 100 women is a good place to start

There are only so many days in a year, so it is important to choose wisely.   I have a group of friends in one city in Ukraine, so that is a draw in, and of itself.   However, I am strongly considering making a similar investment in another city, in another Eastern European country.  You will forgive me if I say no more.  However, I do find it odd / interesting that more in not writing here about Latvia, Estonia, Poland, etc...  It seems strange to me?!?!?

Riv, exactly..
and that been my point , that the chances are plentyful.
[size=78%]like dave, [/size]
 thru my inlaws etc it just very apparent there are plenty of available single women there.


As far as the countries that are EU members,, I agree with members who say its economics in terms to why there isnt MOB there, however,
living in the Chicago area with a huge latvian /polish/lithiunian etc population, its also readily apparant that there again are plenty of single available women.

[Ranetka]

As far as the countries that are EU members,, I agree with members who say its economics in terms to why there isnt MOB there, however,
living in the Chicago area with a huge latvian /polish/lithiunian etc population, its also readily apparant that there again are plenty of single available women.

AJ,


May I say that with your personality (and looks) you will find lots of available single women wherever you go.

[Gator]

Tim,

Going to the FSU will avail yourself to younger and more attractive women on average than in your American dating pool.  PERIOD 
 
As many before you have done, you justify the pursuit psychologically by touting traditional values, at least more traditional than your average AW.   Some men cite education, intelligence, sophistication, etc.
 
Keep in mind as you continue your pursuit: 
 
1.  While traditional values are great, FSUW are different in many ways, and not all of these are positive.  For example, the FSU mentality is more accepting of deceit such as scams than the non-traditional AW on average would ever attempt.

2.  Your past life is not what I would call traditional.
 
Yet, honest FSUW do exist.  So endeavor to focus on honesty and not become totally distracted by flesh.  Also, given the larger number of pretty women, it is more likely that one of them is eccentric enough to be compatible with you.  Take your time, get onto Skype, and believe in the Law of Large Numbers as it pertains to the empirical probability of success.
 
And if you are successful, you will enjoy periods  of happiness punctuated by a lot of work.  Ready for the work?  It will change your life, but that is part of having such a lovely woman as your family.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but there are PLENTY of FSUW living here in Sunny Isles Beach and the majority of them would NEVER settle for the average Joe living on a farm in Iowa again....Ha Ha Ha!
 
Sorry guys, but they have been here in the GoodOl' USA to long to go through that deal again.
 
They have "standards" now.
 
On the other hand, you could talk any Olga in Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Stan's, etc. into riding on your back in here (on very short notice).
 
No problem, no matter where you live (or your age).

There is a disparity there, don't kid yourselves.
 
GOB

[Ranetka]

AJ,


May I say that with your personality (and looks) you will find lots of available single women wherever you go.

Have to add - lots of good, sincere, interested, available women. And the ones not available will be finding friends to set you up with. 

[pitbull]

If women were given the greatest amount of education and freedoms and choices as possible (something I am certainly NOT against), human beings end up with .... modern day American, United Kingdom, and Norway.  The women and men are very equal, fat, and rather sort of lazy. 

OMG, this is the most outrageously stupid thing I've read on RWD to date. What a pig!

[Jumper]

Also, given the larger number of pretty women, it is more likely that one of them is eccentric enough to be compatible with you.  Take your time, get onto Skype, and believe in the Law of Large Numbers as it pertains to the empirical probability of success.

sorry to be blunt riv.. lol but i completely agree with gator on this.


There's a hat for every head, i think you have as good of chance here, as over there, getting a proper fit, but certainly there are many opportunities over there for you.

[Daveman]

Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but there are PLENTY of FSUW living here in Sunny Isles Beach and the majority of them would NEVER settle for the average Joe living on a farm in Iowa....Ha Ha Ha!
 
Sorry guys, but they have been here in the GoodOl' USA to long to go through that deal again.
 
They have "standards" now.
 
On the other hand, you could talk any Olga in Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Stan's, etc. into riding on your back in here (on very short notice).
 
No problem, no matter where you live (or your age).
 
GOB

Agreed...


But, those ladies don't want to live on a farm and "now" have "standards" not because they are Russian, but because they were most likely plucked from cities. 


Very few guys stray far from Kiev, Moscow, etc, etc...  A city is a city.. a farm is a farm..  I'd suggest any guy living in a sparsely populated area looking to meet ladies in the FSU get off the beaten path.  Matching her background to your own is probably much more sensible than dragging a woman from say, Moscow, to small town USA... Some have enjoyed the change of pace and are happy with it.. most, overwhelmingly, would not.

[GoodOlBoy]

Many of the women here where I live are in fact from Moscow.
 
Interestingly, many of them have found their way here from all over the United States.
 
Not just Florida.
 
Also, the number (%) of physical and mental abuse stories are staggering.
 
GOB

[IAmZon]

OMG, this is the most outrageously stupid thing I've read on RWD to date. What a pig!

????  I am not a pig.  I am ECCENTRIC. HAHAHA  And honest, perhaps brutally honest to some tender ears.

[pitbull]

????  I am not a pig.  I am ECCENTRIC. HAHAHA  And honest, perhaps brutally honest to some tender ears.

this is not honesty. This is the perverted attempt to justify own inadequacy. But then, expecting respect for women from a pimp would be unrealistic, won't it 

[IAmZon]

1.  While traditional values are great, FSUW are different in many ways, and not all of these are positive.  For example, the FSU mentality is more accepting of deceit such as scams than the non-traditional AW on average would ever attempt.

2.  Your past life is not what I would call traditional

I understand that not all cultural differences are positive.

And, MY past life is not important to me when it comes to a list of what I am looking for in a woman.   It is HER'S.  How many men really know the score, and have walked down the aisle?  (I am just saying). 

[Jumper]

Thanks Ranetka.


yes the babushka network (and women in relationships)
are most always in full swing setting me up , if i'm single.
I find it odd,  but certainly never complain about it.
The generosity of women has always astounded me ,in any country
I'm just joe average goofball, that can generally make someone smile.

Maybe it skews my perspective on how difficult the process is,
its never been difficult for me.
To me its as simple as treating someone with the same respect and trust  you'd like to receive.
Things like try and walk a mile in their shoes before replying to something they said or did that  you were uncertain of..
Country /culture /situation is irrelevant.

Everything else was just *boy meets girl*.