After a little experience, but still a long way from "MARRIAGE"

[IAmZon]

Doll: I wish you well ... I do not have the foggiest idea WHO YOU ARE?

AGAIN, AND NOBODY HERE REALLY HAS GOTTEN MY POINT ...

After being in EE / Ukraine for 3 months, I arrived back in the USA and attended my 30th High School Re-union.   I have a photograph of me with Mr. Football.  Mr. Basketball, and the Captain of the Cheer leading team.   Mr. Football, is about 5foot 8 inches and 80 lbs overweight.   His wife is his age, and a work out freak (she was very outgoing).  Mr. Basketball - great guy - is about 120 lbs overweight, and looks like he is 65 years old.  Ms. Cheer leading team is still has a bubbly personality, and is about 80 lbs overweight.  I am not ONLY noticing the fact that 90% of the people are over-weight!!!!  I am ALSO implying the difference that suggests in these people's active / physical lives.  It is NOT normal.

There was a "sameness" in the room.  Everybody was kind and nice and excited to see each other ... but, after 5 minutes, few (not all) had anything new, experiential to talk about.  I have lived most of the last 4 years traveling, and most of my current friends are professionals / expats that travel, or have international business.  The differences in lifestyles and outcomes was VIVID.

Another, interesting point that I think is a current USA exception (I may be wrong).  Some of the men drank themselves into oblivion - escapism?   Some of the woman laughed at having to be medicated for the event, because they were so nervous (One woman fell down and had to go to her room, and that broke into the subject).

ADD TO THAT,
1, the enormous difference in gender roles;
2, society's value for a young beauty queen, and
3, the social value of a "successful man"
 ... there is a ton of PECULIARITIES hidden in these subjects.

But, maybe we ought just HUSHHHHH.  Be polite, and ignore the Pink Elephant that is in the room?

[Daveman]

agree 100000000000000000%
will NOT feel like be a member anymore
Good luck to everybody anyway.
Irina

Allow me to reiterate, Riv post does not represent RWD official position on this or any subject.  It is it not RWD's responsibility to challenge the content of a post some may perceive as offensive.  That is the responsibility of the members. All of this nonsense about RWD's official position is a smokescreen.


Anyone is free to challenge that or any post but the thread will not be allowed spiral into yet another thread replete with page after page of posts directed at the individual rather than the content.

[IAmZon]

Allow me to further reiterate ...

My comments are NOT an accusation, or even an indictment!  I wish these things were NOT so; but they are.

[Daveman]

Allow me to further reiterate ...

My comments are NOT an accusation, or even an indictment!  I wish these things were NOT so; but they are.

Riv, I think your perceptions are valid to a degree but the extrapolations/connections you are making are faulty.  I'd like to see you make the case for the connection that:


Equal rights of women are actually the cause of the conditions you are referencing. 

[IAmZon]

You are missing my general point.  I am not against the "good reasons" for feminism.  I do not want to live in the World According To Garp!   

My negative observations apply to MEN and WOMEN both and equally in first world countries.  My personal point of view is that both men and women ought DO THE MOST with what we have, not a halfass effort.

I do not think that EQUAL RIGHT FOR WOMEN is the cause of the social shifts I am referencing !  It, may be, in part, responsible.  I do not think that education, equal pay, the ability to smoke cigarettes ought to be for men and not for women.   How could that alone bring us to where we are as a society???

Of course, there are millions of "normal people" living well adjusted and happy lives in the USA.   Normal people do not perfectly reflect the cultural narrative - who are the pop icons, and how are they living?   Does that not set social values and norms ... to some degree?

Contrast Desparate Housewives to a Latin TeleNovia ... do you see a difference? 

AND, MORE TO THE POINT ... these shifts are macro and generational.  Human beings are changing the way gender roles have been applied for 1,000s of years in the span of 20- 30 years.   Of course, there is going to be a "transition".



-

[Daveman]

You are missing my general point.  I am not against the "good reasons" for feminism.  I do not want to live in the World According To Garp!   

My negative observations apply to MEN and WOMEN both and equally in first world countries.  ...

Here is the excerpt from the initial post:

...
If women were given the greatest amount of education and freedoms and choices as possible (something I am certainly NOT against), human beings end up with .... modern day American, United Kingdom, and Norway.  The women and men are very equal, fat, and rather sort of lazy.  The next step may well be for all of us to lay in bed and get hooked into some imaginary machine, where we are all beautiful and stay young forever?
...

It appears that, while you state that those conditions apply equally to both men and women, you are also implying that the equality of women and men is somehow responsible for those observed conditions which equally apply...


This post did not reference social shifts but rather seemed an implication of decline related to equality, i.e., "modern day...fat, sort of lazy..."


Is the obesity epidemic in America related in any way to equal rights?  Or laziness?  This is the connection I'd like to see made...


Of course I see differences..  I'd like to see more evidence that these differences are directly related to equality as opposed to other factors or combinations of factors.

[Muzh]

Oh boy, what a mess. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Here is the excerpt from the initial post:





It appears that, while you state that those conditions apply equally to both men and women, you are also implying that the equality of women and men is somehow responsible for those observed conditions which equally apply...


This post did not reference social shifts but rather seemed an implication of decline related to equality, i.e., "modern day...fat, sort of lazy..."


Is the obesity epidemic in America related in any way to equal rights?  Or laziness?  This is the connection I'd like to see made...


Of course I see differences..  I'd like to see more evidence that these differences are directly related to equality as opposed to other factors or combinations of factors.

I can't see the obesity problem as a equal rights cause.  Sort of far fetched, imo. 


We can blame profit driven processed foods, lack of exercise due to more office jobs and a car culture  (at least in the states).   I have seen people jump in their car just to go a few blocks.  Walking?  That is for the poor countries.

[Eduard]

I can't see the obesity problem as a equal rights cause.  Sort of far fetched, imo. 


We can blame profit driven processed foods, lack of exercise due to more office jobs and a car culture  (at least in the states).   I have seen people jump in their car just to go a few blocks.  Walking?  That is for the poor countries.

Yes, it's amazing how much more walking FSU people do compared to Americans. However, I think that it's mostly a selfcontrol issue (and I'm just as guilty as the next guy, needing to lose about 40Lbs).
We went to the Children's museum in Tampa the other weekend, it was real nice because I felt skinny there!  It was amazing to see mostly young parents with little kids and about 90% of them overweight or terribly obese. Sad.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, it's amazing how much more walking FSU people do compared to Americans. However, I think that it's mostly a selfcontrol issue (and I'm just as guilty as the next guy, needing to lose about 40Lbs).
We went to the Children's museum in Tampa the other weekend, it was real nice because I felt skinny there!  It was amazing to see mostly young parents with little kids and about 90% of them overweight or terribly obese. Sad.

Self control is definitely a factor.  It is easier when you avoid the processed foods which satisfy hunger for a short term. 


I also think we are more reliant on drugs to fix problems associated with obesity.  I think a lot of people would rather take a pill for, let's say, cholesterol instead of losing the weight to get into a healthy range. 


I found doctors to over prescribe.  For example, I was diagnosed with major depression and was put on anti depressants.  I hated them so I eventually learned how to get the same effect of the pill by exercising.  It took some trial and error but never felt better once I started weight training years ago. 


Damn, I just realized I didn't utilize my 666 post.   

[Hammer2722]

I think alot of it has to do with our way of life and all of the conveniences. Video games for kids, proliferation of fast food joints, etc, etc... causes us to become a little lazy in our lives.

[IAmZon]

I think alot of it has to do with our way of life and all of the conveniences. Video games for kids, proliferation of fast food joints, etc, etc... causes us to become a little lazy in our lives.

Inwardly and outwardly. I see the over weight factor to be systemic, and a metaphor for MANY things not Phat ... but FAT (as in sluggish, lazy, unmotivated, excessive creature comforts, ect ect...)

It appears that, while you state that those conditions apply equally to both men and women, you are also implying that the equality of women and men is somehow responsible for those observed conditions which equally apply... This post did not reference social shifts but rather seemed an implication of decline related to equality, i.e., "modern day...fat, sort of lazy..."Is the obesity epidemic in America related in any way to equal rights?  Or laziness?  This is the connection I'd like to see made... Of course I see differences..  I'd like to see more evidence that these differences are directly related to equality as opposed to other factors or combinations of factors.

How about this?

I may say something in a "locker room that is incomplete, or out of frustration, or something I only partially believe.  This is not a place for academic essays.   I am not going to apply a formal thought process and income - grade effort to a discussion board!

If there was a need to clarify, or even apologize, a normal give an take would have achieved that in most cases.  Correct?

Or, do we want a "walking on egg shells" gender culture here - AS WE DO IN MANY FIRST WORLD SOCIAL ENVIRONMENTS TOO!  But, that is another sticky issue all together.  jajajajaja

[Shadow]

As for obesity, I am pretty sure that a number of habits I witnessed in the US do help. First of all it is the size of portions.
Those who have visited Europe and orered at a fast-food restaurant will without doubt have been devastated by the small quantities offered at high price.
The famous movie 'supersize me' was repeated in Holland and the journalist found he lost weight instead of gaining. Then they understood that a supersize in Holland was at best a medium for the US.....

The next habit, which never ceased to amuse me, is that any distance of more than 100 feet requires a car. The first time I encountered this was at a business trip where we met some friends of the director. They went to a mall to pick up some groceries, no problem. After finishing one store everyone (6 people) were crammed in to the car to visit the next one..... 200 feet away.
While I do not walk half as much as people in the FSU, this was a good anecdote about 'funny Americans'.

Now do not blast me as hater just because I point out these differences.
It is the way it is, and if I would live in the US I would surely develop the same habits.

[Eduard]

As for obesity, I am pretty sure that a number of habits I witnessed in the US do help. First of all it is the size of portions.
Those who have visited Europe and orered at a fast-food restaurant will without doubt have been devastated by the small quantities offered at high price.
The famous movie 'supersize me' was repeated in Holland and the journalist found he lost weight instead of gaining. Then they understood that a supersize in Holland was at best a medium for the US.....

The next habit, which never ceased to amuse me, is that any distance of more than 100 feet requires a car. The first time I encountered this was at a business trip where we met some friends of the director. They went to a mall to pick up some groceries, no problem. After finishing one store everyone (6 people) were crammed in to the car to visit the next one..... 200 feet away.
While I do not walk half as much as people in the FSU, this was a good anecdote about 'funny Americans'.

Now do not blast me as hater just because I point out these differences.
It is the way it is, and if I would live in the US I would surely develop the same habits.

very true!

[Hammer2722]

As for obesity, I am pretty sure that a number of habits I witnessed in the US do help. First of all it is the size of portions.
Those who have visited Europe and orered at a fast-food restaurant will without doubt have been devastated by the small quantities offered at high price.
The famous movie 'supersize me' was repeated in Holland and the journalist found he lost weight instead of gaining. Then they understood that a supersize in Holland was at best a medium for the US.....

The next habit, which never ceased to amuse me, is that any distance of more than 100 feet requires a car. The first time I encountered this was at a business trip where we met some friends of the director. They went to a mall to pick up some groceries, no problem. After finishing one store everyone (6 people) were crammed in to the car to visit the next one..... 200 feet away.
While I do not walk half as much as people in the FSU, this was a good anecdote about 'funny Americans'.

Now do not blast me as hater just because I point out these differences.
It is the way it is, and if I would live in the US I would surely develop the same habits.

No blasting necessary as I believe this to be quite true. We westerners rely so much on our conveniences. The most walking that I have ever done was in the FSU and I found it quite enjoyable. Unfortunately, the public transit systems in my region are not as extensive or efficient as in the East. Due to everyone having a car I suppose.

[Daveman]

I can't see the obesity problem as a equal rights cause.  Sort of far fetched, imo. 


We can blame profit driven processed foods, lack of exercise due to more office jobs and a car culture  (at least in the states).   I have seen people jump in their car just to go a few blocks.  Walking?  That is for the poor countries.

I would also add cable TV with a bagillion channels (as opposed to about three to five in the 50's - 70's), the video game craze which, save for a brief period between the fall of Atari and the rise of Nintendo though somewhat gap filled by the Commodore line, has contributed as well as the proliferation of home computers. 


It seems that we've become an "entertain me" society. 

[Daveman]

Inwardly and outwardly. I see the over weight factor to be systemic, and a metaphor for MANY things not Phat ... but FAT (as in sluggish, lazy, unmotivated, excessive creature comforts, ect ect...)

How about this?

I may say something in a "locker room that is incomplete, or out of frustration, or something I only partially believe.  This is not a place for academic essays.   I am not going to apply a formal thought process and income - grade effort to a discussion board!

Riv, you made the comment.  I took it as being rather off the cuff.  However, it's you choice to support it, distance yourself from it, etc...


My job is to foster the discussion which failed earlier in the thread but seems to have gained a little traction now.. 

If there was a need to clarify, or even apologize, a normal give an take would have achieved that in most cases.  Correct?

Absolutely correct... look down and check the current path we're on... 

Or, do we want a "walking on egg shells" gender culture here - AS WE DO IN MANY FIRST WORLD SOCIAL ENVIRONMENTS TOO!  But, that is another sticky issue all together.  jajajajaja

I think if we were walking on egg shells, we would not be having this current discussion considering the series of events which transpired.

[Muzh]

How about this?

I may say something in a "locker room that is incomplete, or out of frustration, or something I only partially believe.  This is not a place for academic essays.   I am not going to apply a formal thought process and income - grade effort to a discussion board!

If there was a need to clarify, or even apologize, a normal give an take would have achieved that in most cases.  Correct?

Or, do we want a "walking on egg shells" gender culture here - AS WE DO IN MANY FIRST WORLD SOCIAL ENVIRONMENTS TOO!  But, that is another sticky issue all together.  jajajajaja

Okay, let's try this.
 
[Locker Room Discussion]
 
I tell you, all those involved with the adult industry who go to 3rd world country are a bunch of pimps. Degrading women for their own monetary benefits. Boy, how low can you go? In my book, they are not man enough.
 
[/Locker Room Discussion]
 
Would you care for a normal give and take?
 
Let's see how long this post last.

[IAmZon]

I think if we were walking on egg shells, we would not be having this current discussion considering the series of events which transpired.

Agreed.  walking on egg shells is what would have happened if the events were any different.

[IAmZon]

I think this is a step in the right direction ...
how's this?

  [Locker Room Discussion]
 
I tell you, all those involved with the adult industry who go to 3rd world country are a bunch of pimps. Degrading women for their own monetary benefits. Boy, how low can you go? In my book, they are not man enough.
[/Locker Room Discussion]
Would you care for a normal give and take? Let's see how long this post last.

Many would say the same thing about men going to third world countries to start marriage agencies, or men going on "romance tours."  Obviously, the majority of people like to assume the worst when they hear a man has married a woman he met on line from Russia.  (It is only natural!  There is plenty of evidence to support negative opinions).

However, I understand you point is directed to ME.  And, as a person with experience in the adult industry let me say this ...

We have a client who operates 4 large web cam studios in South America.  The client works closely with a special police unit in Colombia to assist authorities in learning and observing those that are, in fact illegitimate / illegal for a variety of reasons.   I have been to this client's facilities and it is a FAR CRY from what many here would presume.   It is a strict and private facility with security and restaurant AND babysitting services. 100's of performers find work, perform a service (almost exclusively to first world men), and are paid 3 - 4 times what a college graduate makes in those cities.   All the while, companies bend over backwards to insure that the model's privacy is protected.   

This client is beta testing new applications with PlayboyTV this month, and in-house LIVE casinos feeds  because THE DEMAND in the first worlds accommodate it.

Now then, I doubt this is the image you create in your mind, or the image that you WANT others to create in their minds.  You would prefer to imagine exactly WHAT ... and for WHAT purpose? 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I would also add cable TV with a bagillion channels (as opposed to about three to five in the 50's - 70's), the video game craze which, save for a brief period between the fall of Atari and the rise of Nintendo though somewhat gap filled by the Commodore line, has contributed as well as the proliferation of home computers. 


It seems that we've become an "entertain me" society.

Shadow, no reason to worry about being attacked, I think you made some good observations.  I think an outsider always has interesting observations that can make people think.  It is always interesting when I come back to the US after being overseas for long periods.  I mainly noticed the sizes of the ass being substantially bigger.  haha



Dave, It seems to being common for children to be raised by television and games now.  I have heard many times from working parents how their kids are good and just play games or watch television while the parents are at work.  The parents seem proud of this while I wonder how the children will turn out socially.


Maybe we can focus on discussions that are not personal attacks badly disguised as discourse.

[Faux Pas]

We have a client who operates 4 large web cam studios in South America.  The client works closely with a special police unit in Colombia to assist authorities in learning and observing those that are, in fact illegitimate / illegal for a variety of reasons.   I have been to this client's facilities and it is a FAR CRY from what many here would presume.   It is a strict and private facility with security and restaurant AND babysitting services. 100's of performers find work, perform a service (almost exclusively to first world men), and are paid 3 - 4 times what a college graduate makes in those cities.   All the while, companies bend over backwards to insure that the model's privacy is protected.   

 [/size]

WOW! What a great opportunity! It's so difficult to find gainful employment from such nice folks. Where can I, my wife and all of my daughters all sign up? 

[Doll]

Doll:

Just for your education (in Russian)-да похрен!

[Muzh]

[locker room discussion]
 
You know, I would first put industrial type rubber gloves before I shake your hands.
 
[/locker room discussion]
 
Many men go on tours or by themselves to a 3rd world country on a sincere quest of finding their soulmate, not Miss December for Hustler magazine under the guise of looking for "the one."
 
Then there are the others who are catered by the enterprise you run.
 
Between you and me, I wouldn't mind having a get together with the first group.
 
For the other group, I don't think there is enough industrial-strength rubber for me to have a get together, if you know what I mean.
 
My choice. And there is nothing you can say that will change my mind.
 
It is that simple. You can turn blue in your face writing oversized explanations and it will matter nothing.
 
Now, you have your constitutional right to say what you want as long as the ToS are respected. Same here.

[GQBlues]

 I don’t think it’s because of the car culture..likely nutrition/processed food is the culprit.
 
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity
 
While the US leads the world in obesity rate per country, it hardly leads the world in terms of raw numbers, IINM. 30% of the US population is obese. Now looking at the top 30 nations leading in obesity, you can clearly see a lot of European countries in it. Hardly car cultured nations. Now add the respective percentages of every country and the total number will hardly make any significance to the point any European coming to the US shouldn't see or notice *more or less* the same number of instances of obesity.

Mexico comes in second place and they are hardly a car-culture society at least not to the same extent the US is. Asian countries like Japan and South Korea also blows that theory away.


A huge number, if not the majority, of obese folks in the US are Hispanic-American and/or African-American. There is a large number of White-Americans that are obese but hardly the same number as those mentioned above. Since none of you are looking to marry Hispanic or African decent females, going to FSU looking for a wife begs for another excuse than the problem of obesity in women.


If you guys can’t be as objective and honest online in front of, or with, men in the same suit as you, how the heck are you ever going to be honest with everyone else in your respective societies? More importantly your own wife?