How and where to find the AM who would like to live in Russia (or Europe)

[Slumba]

What is wrong with men enjoying watching baseball?

Watching sports make me feel happy and enjoyable.  You cannot expect men to make themselves feel miserable.  You should learn to make men feel happy.   If you cannot make men feel happy, then your relationship will fail.  Learn to accept these men who love watching sports.  They will accept you watching soap, gossip TV shows!

All the men deserve to feel happy as much as women do.

Myself I find sports fun and exciting, good exercise.  Watching on TV, no thanks.

I do recall one woman I was writing, telling me that "the people who read, will always rule over the people who watch TV" ... I would not be surprised to find a significant number of FSUW who feel the same way.

[ML]

Myself I find sports fun and exciting, good exercise.  Watching on TV, no thanks.

I do recall one woman I was writing, telling me that "the people who read, will always rule over the people who watch TV" ... I would not be surprised to find a significant number of FSUW who feel the same way.

Virtually 'everyone' watches TV.  Some a lot; some a little.
It is silly to belittle the watching of TV outright.

The discriminating factors should be:  What is the person watching on TV and what other activities suggested to them do they turn down in favor of watching TV?

There is a huge difference between soap opera watchers and those who watch a lot of things on PBS, History Channel, Discovery Channel, Live from Lincoln Center, etc.

[Vasilisa]

What is wrong with men enjoying watching baseball?

CDW, nothing is wrong with them. They just need to find the girls that enjoy baseball or feel fine with their men staying at home watching TV all day.

[Gator]

Vasilisa,

You have high standards, reasonable but high nevertheless.  How far are you willing to lower your standards?  I ask because no one is ideal with regard to every criterion.

[Vasilisa]

Vasilisa,

You have high standards, reasonable but high nevertheless.  How far are you willing to lower your standards?  I ask because no one is ideal with regard to every criterion.

I don't understand why my standards are high? Which points you consider to be high?
I consider them to be average. I am not looking for someone extraodinary wealthy or handsome. Just a simple guy like me:higher education, hard working, read much, likes healthy lifestyle, like to learn something new and loves to travel. Average guy with average income, who has similar interests and wants to have a family, is it something high nowadays? Which point in your opinion I should change?

[Misha]

Average guy with average income, who has similar interests and wants to have a family, is it something high nowadays? Which point in your opinion I should change?

A guy with an average income in the USA will become, even if you sort out all the migration/permanent residence issues will with few exceptions become a husband with a below average income in Russia. What jobs do you think an American who likely will know no Russian will be able to find in Russia unless they teach English or somehow get a job for a large international company working in Russia?


Also, a man even with an average income in his thirties or forties has some kind of career and it is unlikely that he will be willing to throw that away to move to Russia for zero job prospects. Again, you noted yourself that you would expect him to work and have an "average income." 

[Vasilisa]

I don't have a problem to meet a man but I have problems meeting the man described above for some reason. I am not looking for perfection, but it's hard to find the one.

I would also like to feel loved but I don't feel loved by the men I've met so far. As for the AM I meet on local websites it's like a contract for many of them, they are not looking at me, they are looking at how much they are going to get from me to help them to get rid of their problems and personal issues. That's strange to hear how they are asking me about my salary or my debts or my car in the first date. These men are far from being perfect (they are divorced with psycho exes and the kids from previous marriages who live with them, AA, being on  serious medication, smoking, having heavy depressions, wanting nothing but short term relationship, anger management issues, greedy, mean, tactless, living with their parents at the age of 40, homeless, uneducated, overweight, ugly, lazy, no stable job, etc) but they want me to be perfect, they expect for me to achieve more in a couple of years of life here than they have done in their entire life here.  And these are the guys whose profiles look nice and they don't post pictures from drunk parties or with ex girls friends or wives, I have no idea what to expect when you start writing to the men like these.

What should I lower in your opinion?!
I don't pay too much attention to the appearance and don't expect for ALL our interests to be the same, isn't that enough?!

[Vasilisa]

A guy with an average income in the USA will become, even if you sort out all the migration/permanent residence issues will with few exceptions become a husband with a below average income in Russia. What jobs do you think an American who likely will know no Russian will be able to find in Russia unless they teach English or somehow get a job for a large international company working in Russia?

Ok, that is the point of this thread.
BTW, many RW moving to the US from Russia can achieve average income level or above, they learn English, go to school again, what prevent AM from doing the same in order not to be below average in Russia?

[Hammer2722]

I don't have a problem to meet a man but I have problems meeting the man described above for some reason. I am not looking for perfection, but it's hard to find the one.

I would also like to feel loved but I don't feel loved by the men I've met so far. As for the AM I meet on local websites it's like a contract for many of them, they are not looking at me, they are looking at how much they are going to get from me to help them to get rid of their problems and personal issues. That's strange to hear how they are asking me about my salary or my debts or my car in the first date. These men are far from being perfect (they are divorced with psycho exes and the kids from previous marriages who live with them, AA, being on  serious medication, smoking, having heavy depressions, wanting nothing but short term relationship, anger management issues, greedy, mean, tactless, living with their parents at the age of 40, homeless, uneducated, overweight, ugly, lazy, no stable job, etc) but they want me to be perfect, they expect for me to achieve more in a couple of years of life here than they have done in their entire life here.  And these are the guys whose profiles look nice and they don't post pictures from drunk parties or with ex girls friends or wives, I have no idea what to expect when you start writing to the men like these.

What should I lower in your opinion?!
I don't pay too much attention to the appearance and don't expect for ALL our interests to be the same, isn't that enough?!

Wow! He looks like a real gentleman!! 

[Eduard]

These men are far from being perfect (they are divorced with psycho exes and the kids from previous marriages who live with them, AA, being on  serious medication, smoking, having heavy depressions, wanting nothing but short term relationship, anger management issues, greedy, mean, tactless, living with their parents at the age of 40, homeless, uneducated, overweight, ugly, lazy, no stable job, etc) but they want me to be perfect, they expect for me to achieve more in a couple of years of life here than they have done in their entire life here.  And these are the guys whose profiles look nice and they don't post pictures from drunk parties or with ex girls friends or wives, I have no idea what to expect when you start writing to the men like these.

Wow, reading this makes me feel like I was a rare find when I was single: in great shape, no kids, no psych issues, generous, patient, no debt, looking for marriage and having a family, etc. etc. Yet I couldn't find an AW who wanted me. AW that I was meeting or chatting with sound exactly like the AM you are describing! LOL

[Misha]

What should I lower in your opinion?!
I don't pay too much attention to the appearance and don't expect for ALL our interests to be the same, isn't that enough?!

What is your real goal:


1. To find a good man, with whom to live in the United States;
2. To find a good man, willing to relocated to Russia.


The first is doable, the second much, much more difficult.

[Misha]

BTW, many RW moving to the US from Russia can achieve average income level or above, they learn English, go to school again, what prevent AM from doing the same in order not to be below average in Russia?

The women who do best are those who arrive in the United States knowing English. Hypothetically, let's say you find an American man who does not speak Russian or any other slavic language.


I will presume that you are not looking foor a 20-year-old, but I acknowledge the dangers of assuming anything. How long will it take him to learn Russian even if living in Russia? I would estimate, based on people learning English from zero, that it will take anywhere from 3 to 5 years to gain basic conversational fluency to be able to hold down a conversation about more than where you come from and how many brothers and sisters you have. Then, it will take many more years for him to approve his written Russian skills.


It will thus take between 5 years and 10 years before he is reasonably capable of finding an "average" job in Russia. Would you be willing to work and support him during those 10 years?

[Vasilisa]

It will thus take between 5 years and 10 years before he is reasonably capable of finding an "average" job in Russia. Would you be willing to work and support him during those 10 years?

Well, belieiving in a traditional type of a relationship that's not what I am looking for, and that's not what my man would find normal and accept.
But speaking of the time frame I have never heard of the cases when the AM would simply support their RW financially for 10 years with her simply sitting at home and studying. I went to the forum of the Russians living in the US and most women that married AM found at least a part time job within a year after arrival in the US, plus were looking after the kids and going to college at the same time. The cases where the woman would be just a housewife going to college for 10 years' time doing nothing are extremely rare, normally with huge age gap and very rich husbands.

[Misha]

Again, how many of these women on these forums spoke zero English when arriving in the United States?

Also, I would say that a woman arriving with zero English would rarely find an average job after 3 to 5 years. Generally, they tend to be entry-level jobs that would pay less than average.

[Vasilisa]

Again, how many of these women on these forums spoke zero English when arriving in the United States?

Also, I would say that a woman arriving with zero English would rarely find an average job after 3 to 5 years. Generally, they tend to be entry-level jobs that would pay less than average.

I'd say almost all those who weren't English teachers in Russia came with the level close to zero.

And again, Misha, I know it's hard to find the man like that, what you are doing is trying to persuade me how hard and complicated it is, I know that it is hard, I was trying to see some ideas from the members who have heard successful stories like that in UKraine or Russia to cheer me up

[Misha]

I'd say almost all those who weren't English teachers in Russia came with the level close to zero.

Close to zero is not zero. Having studied the basics helps quite a bit.

And again, Misha, I know it's hard to find the man like that, what you are doing is trying to persuade me how hard and complicated it is,

Call me a realist. We have had few people who moved to Ukraine, all invariably came back. Chivo is the only one still living in Moscow as far as I know. 

[size=78%]I know that it is hard, I was trying to see some ideas from the members who have heard successful stories like that in UKraine or Russia to cheer me up[/size]

LOL! If the goal was to be cheered up, you should have said so. I could lie if that would help

[CDW]

CDW, nothing is wrong with them. They just need to find the girls that enjoy baseball or feel fine with their men staying at home watching TV all day.

Watching TV is cheaper than going out all the time, spending, spending, spending!  Some men work hard all day at work, and they like to go home and relax, watching TV. 

Some men do not like listening gossips about next door neighbours! 

[Maxx2]

Vasilisa, 
 
Where to find him?  I doubt he is on Match.com and I doubt he frequents the singles bars.  Finding these people at work is impossible.  If they work it is a menial job hidden among the masses and difficult to spot.  So you must go where they have fun. 
 
You may find them on weekends in artistic gatherings, hidden coffee shops (not Starbucks), vegetarian cafes, vintage clothing stores, used book sales, bong shops, liberal political events, etc.  Study the "What to Do This Weekend" media and select the most esoteric to visit.
 
When you get around these people, you must make the first contact.   Getting them interested could be difficult because they consider most people, especially strangers, to be idiots.   Do not expect them to be impressed simply by your attractive face and slender body.   These people are more about mental attributes rather than physical appearance.  You will fail if you wear fashionable clothes.  These people are not materialistic.  You will need to wear something unsophisticated yet individualistic that makes a statement.  Can a RW actually do such?
It will help if you study the characters in independent films.   
 
I know because I have walked this other world there for brief periods of my life.  But I was too mainstream to stay.  One girlfriend who still makes me smile when I think of her.  These people can be a real joy.
 
Good luck!

I would look among Ron Paul supporters. RP supporters march to the beat of a different drummer and are not Imperialist warmongers so there isn't that "America is the GREATEST country God ever made!" stuff to contend with.
 
I am working on the goal of moving to Russia or Ukraine. If all goes well I will consider renouncing my US citizenship only after of course I become a Russian or Ukrainian citizen (if this is possible).
 
Maxx

[ML]

I am working on the goal of moving to Russia or Ukraine. If all goes well I will consider renouncing my US citizenship only after of course I become a Russian or Ukrainian citizen (if this is possible).
 
Maxx

So I guess everything went pretty well for you with your RW wife, her family and friends, etc !

[ML]

Vasilisa, I discussed this specific post of yours at length with my Gal tonight while we were watching Dancing With the Stars.I specifically asked her if she had any of the feelings you expressed about just not 'fitting in' in the USA.
She said that she had only had those feeling for the first week or so.
But after that, she feels very comfortable here, likes Americans, likes the way Americans treat her, likes the American way of doing things, etc.
In short, she likes being here very much.  Just to refresh . . . she is early 40s, and a full time graduate student at a major university.  And she has no money worries, and has already produced a child who is a successful young adult now.

She does say that her family and her friends still do not believe her when she tells them that she is not homesick, etc.
So she and you have had completely different experiences in 'adapting' to the USA.
I empathise with you that your experience has been less that what you had wished and hope for the best in your  future.

[Vasilisa]

Watching TV is cheaper than going out all the time, spending, spending, spending! 

Ok, CDW, we got your point. The only thing I can't get so far is why is it all about you have to prove us all how great you are and how great all your hobbies are? It is your right to love it and enjoy it. People have different interests and yes, watching TV can be cheap, but I don't have any interest in watching baseball, ok?! How about watching something else?!
How about reading? How about riding a bike?! How about going for a walk? It doesn't include spending much. People just have different intersts which are different from your interests and it doesn't mean you are good and we are bad and vv, it is just the way it is and we should look for people with similar interets. so look for someone who enjoys baseball and I will look for someone who has similar hobbies.

 Now you can start proving us again that there's nothing wrong with baseball and watching TV.

[Vasilisa]

Vasilisa, I discussed this specific post of yours at length with my Gal tonight while we were watching Dancing With the Stars.I specifically asked her if she had any of the feelings you expressed about just not 'fitting in' in the USA.
She said that she had only had those feeling for the first week or so.
But after that, she feels very comfortable here, likes Americans, likes the way Americans treat her, likes the American way of doing things, etc.
In short, she likes being here very much.  Just to refresh . . . she is early 40s, and a full time graduate student at a major university.  And she has no money worries, and has already produced a child who is a successful young adult now.

She does say that her family and her friends still do not believe her when she tells them that she is not homesick, etc.
So she and you have had completely different experiences in 'adapting' to the USA.
I empathise with you that your experience has been less that what you had wished and hope for the best in your  future.

ML, yes, when you live in the country for 1 year or so you may still think it's the process of your getting used to it, when you have been living for several years and it's still the same it makes you think if you should change the place.

[newjason]

oops

[Daveman]

Not sure what the problem is with her not wanting a big TV watcher but it seems rather prefers someone who is involved with his surroundings.  So, she can find an engaging 'reader' type.  There are quite a few of those in the world. From what I've read so far, she's looking for someone who has a decent education, decent steady job (I understand her to mean stable), dependable, responsible, family first, in reasonable physical shape, traditional man  who hates baseball.   


I don't see any of that as unreasonable at all or too high standards.  Finding one willing to move to Russia with the  qualifications to pull off a job of any kind right away - yeah, that's a bit of a stretch. 


So, where are some places where she can perhaps meet someone who already speaks Russian?


Vasilisa, it can take some time to find the right partner for you.  The good thing is that it only takes one!  The bad thing is that you will probably have to toss out five, ten, a hundred or a thousand or so before luck crosses your path with that one. 


I still say don't settle... just get involved and have a little patience.  You'll be absolutely fine.

[Belvis]

BTW, many RW moving to the US from Russia can achieve average income level or above, they learn English, go to school again, what prevent AM from doing the same in order not to be below average in Russia?

Interesting point. He would be such an hero to repeat the deeds of RW Talking more serious I consider USA as the country of opportunities. American lifestyle may be not appealing but the opportunities for immigrants are still there. As far as I remember statistics russian immigrants earn in US well above the average US income.

I discussed this specific post of yours at length with my Gal tonight while we were watching Dancing With the Stars.I specifically asked her if she had any of the feelings you expressed about just not 'fitting in' in the USA....
But after that, she feels very comfortable here, likes Americans, likes the way Americans treat her, likes the American way of doing things, etc.
In short, she likes being here very much.  Just to refresh . . . she is early 40s, and a full time graduate student at a major university.  And she has no money worries, and has already produced a child who is a successful young adult now.
She does say that her family and her friends still do not believe her when she tells them that she is not homesick, etc.

In my personal encounters I would divide RW's attitude towards life in USA 50-50. 50% appreciate comfort,  friendy service and consumer oriented society, enjoy shopping more than friends left in FSU. Other 50% have different priorities, which I'll attribute to "russian soul" to make it short . A few of RM I known in USA have to return in Russia because  their wives or daughters failed to immerse into american lifestyle. All of them were from Moscow or S.-Peterburg so it may bias their attitude.
Another observation, though very rough, that UW seems more easily leave their land than RW. I'm not sure the economic factor is the only determinant in this anomaly.