Trip Update, Just home from Turkey

[Patagonie]

Story 1 :
I was with an FSU lady, she was (i met her again as friend later) totally genuine and honest (and introduced by a trusty person). After i came back to my country we kept in touch. As she was not having internet it was not easy. I told her that i wanted to take a plane again to see her in one month. She started to talk with her parents about us. Knowing the important age difference parents don't agree.
She told me this. I knew in the second that this relationship was dead.

Story 2 :
I was with a lady and we really like each others . Her brother was very present (intrusive) in her life. We were at the restaurant and this guy (special ring) tried to call her many time (he knew that i was in the city). She was not picking up her phone. I told her : XXXXXXXXXXX you should answer, this is your brother, he worries about you. Answer and tell him what we are doing now. She did. 20 minutes after the guy entered in the restaurant and sit down with us. I passed with flying colors test number 1. And especially because few weeks before an other french guy came in her city, probably got sex from her and ditch her just after.

You want to spend three months with her on a daily basis which is very good, absolutely the right thing to do.
But you need to dig why she don't care (don't want ?) to put her parents in the loop.

[missAmeno]

Ok, guys, stop painting this girl in some dark colors. Everything happening too fast, she isnt ready to tell her parents, period. More likely by the time K1 comes through she will change her mind 10 times on the matter and will tell her parents. Its a big step to decide to marry someone and move abroad away from your family, she is panicking ... which is actually normal reaction to circumstances. If she would have been rational and cold-blooded-calculative , ready to tell everyone after just one holiday together then that would be red flag. Even if you are seeking someone to share your life with it is always unexpected in some way when you do find someone you are really into. And head starts to spin. She needs time and support/encouragement from Milz713.

Milz713, you have to go to her home city, you have to tell her that you will be there with her to tell her parents, you have to impress her parents, you have to convince them you have best intentions regarding their daughter in your heart, you have to find the way for them to give their blessing. Your girl is ready to do a runnner just to not put you under the tank. So get the courage and do what is right!

[GoodOlBoy]

This will not only help her receive a visa, it will facilitate the two months of shacking up.

Thank you Gator!

I haven't heard this term used in awhile.

My late Dad used it all the time (I saw Bob the other day Rick, yeah he's shacked up with Suzy rotten crotch).
 
It's a classic and brings back some nostalgic times for me.
 
Lately, I've heard the younger crowd use the word "bonkathon". 
 
GOB

[Milz713]

Wow,  once again in this forum you are able to read a few words and come to your own conclusions and it seems most of you actually know this girl better than I do?  Quick somebody tell me what number I am thinking of?   Ohh wait you know this type of girl , pro dater scammer never been married must have something wrong with her impossible to have real feelings deceptive just looking for a mule type?   I actually came in to post about a positive experience I had in turkey with a wonderful girl and say thanks for recommending Antalya but once again things are being ripped apart and dissected beyond belief.  She has her reasons for not wanting to tell her parents and I respect that,  she has her reasons for not bein married before and I understand that,  we have our reasons for wanting to do things the way we want and to go into further detail with you lot looking for something to piss on,  well it's none of your fucking business!!   Anyway,  turkey was great,  rental car was great, sea temp was great, food was great, girl was great,  parting ways sucked!!   And for those o you that could figure it out before,  my first wife was cheating before and after marriage,  not great but she found Jesus and he has forgiven her but I haven't,,,

[Chicagoguy]

Milz713,
I met my wife in Moscow the first time. Second was a trip together to Antalya. Never went to her hometown. She had never been married before. Only saw her adult daughter in Moscow once.
It is three very happy years now and I have met her whole family in hometown. It was fabulous. Will go again this coming spring. Her daughter has been over here to visit us twice now - on her own nickle.
Difference between us is I never ran this past RWD for discussion.

[ML]

Yes Chicago guy, but isn't there a large age difference between your gal and the gal of the OP?

[Gator]

Milz,
 
Of course you are upset with us.  You are justifiably ecstatic  after spending a delightful week with a wonderful RW.  And then you read some cautious posts raining on your fast track parade.
 
Almost all of us have been through the initial euphoria of having met a wonderful RW.    It is indeed glorious.  Some have done it more than once.   Many have married the RW and are living a happy life,  with some marriages more than 10 years in length.
 
No one can be critical of   your RW because we do not know her.  Some of us find it peculiar, however, that a RW would not want to introduce you to her family.  You are the man, and you need to take the lead in doing what is best for the two of you. 
 
Please examine the posts again.  Count the number of posters who are urging caution vs. the number who encourage you.  Also, check their marital status  (marriage would indicate that they understand FSUW, the FSU culture and the visa process from having lived them).  Please look for a pattern.
 
BTW, twice you mentioned the cheating ways of your ex-wife.  Have you fully recovered from that bad marriage?  We men can sometimes be a little rash before we have fully recovered.   Sometimes we do something just to spite the ex-.   I am not saying that is you, but some men do that.
 
Let us look down the road.  A year from now after your woman receives her visa and has spent some time with you, perhaps your attitude in general will differ.  Would it be fair to the RW to send her back if she indeed entered this fast track agreement in good faith?  She would have to tell her parents that it was a mistake, the same parents whose advice she did not seek.  She would have to reenter the workplace.  She would feel humiliated before her friends.  That would be horrible for her, and just a bump in the road for you. 
 
She has more to lose in this fast track agreement than you do.  Think of her. 
 
What would it take to make you want to marry her that you are unsure about now?  How can you have had a serious discussion about values and goals if her English is poor?   Why not take more time to get to know each other?  Pay for English lessons and see what her improved communication skills reveal.   Meet her family and friends.   In other words, get to know her.  Allow love to progress.

[Steamer]

Wow,  once again in this forum you are able to read a few words and come to your own conclusions and it seems most of you actually know this girl better than I do?

We are commenting on the info that you gave us. Many of us have been through this process before and can see potential problems. IMHO the bigger problem is that you seem to be in a huge hurry to marry and are willing to overlook potential red flags to do this. I've seen a lot of guys fly over with a ring in their pocket, determined to get married NOW. It usually ends badly. Slow down and get to know her better. It'll improve the chances of your relationship lasting.
 

[GoodOlBoy]

IMHO the bigger problem is that you seem to be in a huge hurry to marry....

I am not so sure about this part.
He's definitely in a hurry to do something though.
 
GOB

[Milz713]

I have noticed that many here paint a picture of a loving Russian family who only want the best for there children,  lets try another scenario that I have come across on more than one occasion,  RW doesn't want to tell her family because her father is a controlling manipulative man who on many occasions drinks too much and hits his wife and cheats on her and the mother is constantly urged to leave this man because he is horrible but never does, instead she convinces her daughter to stay close to home and seek a man like her father,  RW is tired of men like her father and realizes even her own brothers drink too much, hit there wives and are cheaters and look far from home and don't care what there parents think and choose not to tell them anything,  maybe they live far apart and don't speak often anyway?  I have also read we went on a nice vacation and fall in love after the first meeting impossible,   That's not exactly how it happened but ok,  let's leave out the 3-4 times a week video chat,  hundreds of emails and phone calls,  is it plausible to say there were true feelings before the meeting and the actual meeting only re enforced these feelings??  Of course not because that doesn't fit the RWD model.    I brought up my previous marriage that was almost 20 years ago to show that you can spend years. Dating and think you know someone and have it end in tears just as easily as knowing them for weeks so the formula isint sound,  I brought it up a second time because some didnt get the joke,  and yea I  am over it,,,,

[Shadow]

Milz, I have given you one clear thing not to do. If you manage to go through the visa process while managing that, you might be winning the main prize.
If you fail, you will be taken for the ride of your life.

People do not rip in to you because of wishing you bad. They wish you well and want you to open your eyes for all possibilities. As nobody has the full picture but you and your RW, they must make assumptions.

Looking at her home area (near Kazan), keeping you away from home territory and family, I understand people seeing red lights. If she manages to get a steady financial maintenance out of you, that will be a deep purple light.
If not, you may beat the odds. But buy a lottery ticket just in case.

[Doll]

Milz, my husband never met my parents, never saw my "enviroment"
He supported me and my kids all the time between our meeting and our arrival in the States.
It will be soon 11 years we are married.
 

[Jumper]

 

I know I have opened up a whole can of responses here and expect a bit of harsh criticism from those who have been around the block but every situation as I see it is different and without great risk we will never have the chance for great reward,,,,,

The point of most here is there is no need for the risk in this case.
you can meet her again, you can see if the relationship continues a bit un dimmed and in fact continues to grow with very little extra effort?


You both may choose not to meet again ,and  thats certainly ok and your lives?


you expected the feed back you got because you know it's common sense.
Its not just people trying to rain on your parade.


You had a great meeting, thats awesome.
Is it enough to file a K1 and use it as a trial period?
that's up to you two and depends greatly on what situation she is in , in  life


She may be the type with few ties, little going on , adventurous, and some  failed K1,
not a big deal and easily worth the risk of a solid relationship and marriage.
You may in this situation as well.


None of us can know.
Most just don't see any harm in intentionally planning other meetings.. It seems you may have that in mind regardless which is good!


Few RW are generallly in a position that would make them want to commit  to a marriage (a K1 id sa fiancee visa, full intent to marry is the only reason for it being  issued)
 after one meeting n holiday even with lots of skype or prior communication.




 by the forums very nature
the advise will be generic?
While the amount of face time needed is a huge debate, its very hard to debate the harm of a few continued meetings prior to a life commitment,and thats what you will keep hearing?
 
*shrugs*


It's great to hear you met a good RW the was the same in person as in communication and that you hit it off so well!
I wish you both the best

[JayH]

Milz713 -- this is a forum with many different streams of thought process--it is easy to disagree with something in almost every post. In business I have often commented that no one has a mortgage on good ideas-- they can come from anywhere!!  I also have no problem with examining others thought process's-- even if 97% was already abundantly clear-- there may be something in the 3% that directs you to a better process. The forum is free-- so is the advice-- it may in fact be overcharging!! Regardless- it does not hurt to read it.
Dont't treat it as a debate where you must justify yourself win points-- direct it to what will help you.

[Daveman]

Milz, my husband never met my parents, never saw my "enviroment"
He supported me and my kids all the time between our meeting and our arrival in the States.
It will be soon 11 years we are married.
 

ahhhhhh HA!!  taking his money for support wasn't enough! NOOOOOOO, you had to come and take over his house!  and the scam continues for 11+ years!! 


AND a one week wonder to boot!! 

[Daveman]

Milz, my husband never met my parents, never saw my "enviroment"
He supported me and my kids all the time between our meeting and our arrival in the States.
It will be soon 11 years we are married.

Now on a more serious note... do you see this as being the exception or the rule for that time frame? Has anything changed from the RW perspective of the process since then?  Do RW expect this behavior from a WM? and if so, when?  As soon as a relationship develops? or?

[Doll]

ahhhhhh HA!!  taking his money for support wasn't enough! NOOOOOOO, you had to come and take over his house!  and the scam continues for 11+ years!! 


AND a one week wonder to boot!! 

Yes, your honor, I am guilty. Spit at me (Russian expression)
 
The most terrible thing is that I am still married to him AND I am not going to divorce!
Spit at me.

[Doll]

Now on a more serious note... do you see this as being the exception or the rule for that time frame? Has anything changed from the RW perspective of the process since then?  Do RW expect this behavior from a WM? and if so, when?  As soon as a relationship develops? or?

It is an exception, Dave.
I don't know what "has changed since then".
I don't think RW expect this behavior from WM.
BUT, as people said here, WM can go and visit RW many times between visa application.
BTW, K-1 used for "coming to the States and seeing how it goes" is NOT fraud.

[Milz713]

I do appreciate most of the advice but some of it seems to me is a little too much under the microscope,  I will try to address a few of the comments,  I seem to be in a hurry,  yes actually I am a little,  I have been single for almost 3 years with a 10 year old son and sometimes I feel like the walls are caving in around me,  I have tried AW but am never satisfied,  I have met 2 other RW in person and things were just not quite right,  this particular woman I feel things are very much right,  I first saw her profile on EM and she would not answer my letters so I decided to try the 1 letter per day approach and after about a week and a half I finally got a letter from her,  we started to speak using video on skype right away and I realized she knew very little English,  while in skype we both have google translate open and when we can not understand each other we go to google,  we have spoken in skype on average 3-4 times per week for 1-3 hours each time and then I write her a letter before going to bed and usually have a answer before I get home from work.  I realized very quickly that she was not how I imagined her from the photos and she was different from the other women I have spoken too and met in person.  She is very youthful in her mentality but also very mature and we seem to have tons in common which I did not have with the others I have met and spoken with,  I decided early into our conversations that we should meet in person which she did not think was a good idea because it was too soon to decide,  I made her realize that it takes a few months to plan a meeting and by the time it gets close we will be very comfortable and want it to come soon,  I was right,  when we met because of so much video time together and phone calls and letters we very quickly became a couple,  nothing like some of the stories I have read,  we were holding hands, kissing in public, laughing always and shared the same hotel room,  the room I got for her became her personal closet for the week.  When we went for dinner or to buy something she was always careful of the price and did not want me to waste money on anything that was not necessary.  When I paid for the small gifts for her parents she was very grateful and surprised...  When it was time to part company she cried and was very sad but we briefly spoke about her coming to the USA and she was never forceful but only said that if it is what I want she also wants it.  Trying not to frighten her I told her that we could meet again but the only way we will ever know if it is truly going to work is to just jump right in and do it!!!!  She agreed.  I noticed after about a month of our talking in skype she closed her profile at EM,  I asked her about it and she told me that she was getting letters everyday but did not want to write to these men,  I also closed my profile because I didnt want to write to anyone either,  as we all know it takes much time to focus on 1 woman and be a single parent and work a full time job and take care of a home.  After reading the advice given here I told her that she must tell her parents because she will need there support because it such a difficult move to make,  she told me NO!!  She said her parents will try to manipulate her and tell her it is impossible and a horrible decision.  Yesterday her mother visited and she told me her mother was always arguing with her wanting to know when she will find a husband,  her mother said she is getting older and needs to have children now and find a husband,  she asked her mother what if I find a American boy,  her mother told her it is too far and impossible.  I again said that she must tell her parents and I will come to meet them in March.  She said she will wait until 2 days before I arrive and call and tell them so they do not have much time to think about it and we will go to meet them.  Some have questioned how we could really know each other with her poor English and my even Poorer Russian?  Well with the help of google we have had some in depth conversations and her English is getting better and better everyday.  Tuesday we spoke on the phone for 20 mins and I think we understood 90 percent of what we said to each other,  today we were on skype for 90 mins without google and again it was about 90 percent.  She has told her brother her secret about having a American boyfriend and to my surprise he is ok with it,  he even suggested to her that his daughter has just started private English lessons and she should talk to the teacher about starting lessons.  She told me today she will begin lessons in November and asked if I thought group lessons or individual would be best.  We also discussed the K-1 visa and it is clear to me that she does not have any idea how difficult it is to obtain one.  I was also convinced that she was not a pro dater when she did not fully understand what was needed to travel to Turkey because she has never been anywhere in the world.  Yes this is much more information than any of you need to know but I felt maybe I should tell a little more of the story,,  Next step I will petition for a K-1 visa,  yes yes yes I know it if very quick and maybe a huge mistake but maybe just maybe it is not a huge mistake,  it is possible,  60,000 applications are filed each year so maybe we will be one of the lucky ones,  Yes I could squeak out a few more visits and log many more hours in skype but I dont want to and she doesnt want to so we will move forward and hope for the best,,  I have seen Avi's story and yes it scares me to death but that should scare everyone,,,  I am 41 yrs old and she is 32 yrs old,  I want to have more children and she wants children and we are both tired of being alone,  if there were any red flags lighting up the horizon like with the others I would move on but so far so good,  it is time to roll the dice and see what happens,,,,,

[Chicagoguy]

It is YOUR life and YOUR choice.   

[JayH]

Best way to find out-- do it!! I dont see any negative issue here to not just getting on with it.There is no "right" way-- trust you feelings-- but keep thinking!! Dont over think it!! Good luck to you.

[Doll]

She has very controlling parents.

[Wayne]

Actually, there is no law against filling a second K-1 for the same person. Every case is different. You can also get a waiver from the IMBRA law. Getting a K-1 is not that difficult. You will need to have a lot of photographs of the both of you together, and the photographs must look natural, and show that you care about each other.
 
You need proof about the skype conversations, phone calls, and so on. A letter from her brother might be helpful. It takes months for the application to be approved, so you can gather evidence until the visa interview. It is also good to have a lot of emails. Improving her English is very important.
 
Does this girl still live with her parents? You know, she will probably not find a job in USA right away; can you support her? If you do get married, does she want to continue to work? You need to discuss a lot of practical things with her, and see if you agree.
 
 

[Gator]

Milz,
 
Your elaboration does make your decision seem less rash. 
 
My reservation is your reservation.  What is your reservation?  I don't know, yet I know you have one because you wrote  that the 90-day period after arrival in America is a trial period of living together rather than a preparation for the wedding. 
 
If you really care for this woman, please take into consideration the impact upon her of sending her back.   
 
I wish you the best.

[Milz713]

I have saved every email from her and every email I have sent to her,  Skype conversations are also saved in Skype and can easy be brought nip,  we have several photos together in Turkey also,  all of the phone calls are through Skype so I am not sure if I have those records or not,  she lives alone in a rented room and works as a beautician 8 hours a day and cleans rooms and takes care of other lodging where she lives for the landlord,  she is totally self sufficient in her life now,  of course she would want to work in the USA but I explained it will be nearly impossible until her English gets better.  Her working is not a issue because I have a pretty good job working as a linemen for the electric company.  I also have a cousin o my fathers that is married to a Russian woman and they live 5 mins from and I think they could be very helpful in her transition.