USA Tourist Visa Denied - any thoughts?

[Daveman]

 
... in and around my small town of Punxsutawney ...

Perhaps a notarized threat letter from The Groundhog could help?   

[Vaughn]

....I wonder whether a different interviewer would have decided the applications differently.

I am convinced that the interviewer assigned to the petition makes all the difference. My MIL was approved twice with what I have to call a weak application, being widowed, never having traveled very far, having and owning relatively little. In retrospect, her age was probably a plus, and my letter of invitation was likely never read. She used Pony Express both times. My understanding was that when it was mandated that forms be submitted electronically, Pony Express was out of the picture. Apparently I am wrong. BTW, Pony Express's fee was close to a flat $200, a bargain considering that sum included all the Consular fees - and the PE rep visited my MIL's flat and helped her fill out the form(s) accurately at the kitchen table. MIL's interviewer was a fluent American male, very affable guy.
 
My 40-ish SIL was denied twice, despite strong documented ties. Both apps were submitted electronically. She was nervous, gave short answers, and noticed little to no eye contact by the interviewer, who was not American, and shabby in appearance. Her second attempt with a slightly stronger presentation, two years later, was a replay with yet another dismissive clerk.
 
It's my feeling that it's a roll of the dice, and agonizing when one faces an interviewer who appears not to give a damn.

[JayH]

Hope it can improve for you John. I am not in US but have my own concerns with Visa issues.
Many issues covered by posters in thread. What about Lawyering up? Seems to me that not many are going to be better off than your relatives-- either answered a question the wrong way thru misunderstanding or not understanding the intent of the question.Whaever ,it is ridiculous decision.

[LAman]

There is nothing and I mean nothing that explains why some visa are granted or denied. Over past few years I have read and been told different circumstances and nothing makes any sense.....be it a traveler....children.....financial means....property... it is just hit and miss!!!  I only thing that seems plausible is that russians have a greater chance of getting visa.
I have a friend here that has got 4 different young russian girls here on visas( not all were tourist). And to top that, I had a moldovian girl get a visa..a 10 year M E  tourist visa......and she was denied 2 times before. Maybe it was the pretty face and large rack  ... .or maybe that interviewer had good day......who knows????
Speaking of the invitation letter, I did send one to the moldovian girl, I was told it would help her, she had no money and I was where she would be staying.....I am sure they would want to know that!!!

[JohnMI]

I too am convinced that the assignment of the examiner for each case makes all the difference in the world. According to the email I received from the Embassy, he or she has complete discretion whether to ask to see supporting documentation and there is no basis to challenge his or her decision in that regard. Would a female interviewer have made a difference? Did the male interviewer skip breakfast that morning, or was he scolded for a decision by another visa applicant immediately prior to my in-laws' interview? Who knows?
 
I did ask my wife how her parents dressed for the interview, whether they possibly appeared uncertain or timid to the examiner, etc. and she assured me that her parents dressed well (but not too formal) and she previously coached them to maintain eye contact, to be confident (but not overbearing), and to succinctly answer only the questions asked of them. Her prior career in Ukraine was as a regional director for sports development in Nikolaev oblast so she said she knows how government types work - that was the basis for her instructing the parents how to present themselves.
 
My wife has accepted the Embassy decision and asserts this process is simply a lottery to fill a 2-3 visa daily quota, regardless of the merits of each application, and there is nothing I can say to convince her otherwise. Maybe she is right?

[Chicagoguy]

In Russia my wife's daughter went to Moscow embassy and asked for a 3 month visa to visit U.S. No letters of any kind from us. She just has a secretary job, no car, rental flat. Instead of 3 month visa they gave her 2 years.
Some other good friends of ours invited her elderly parents from Kazakhstan and they had no problems.
Why would our government punish Ukrainian citizens because of their stupid government?
Maybe a record of other travels to nearby countries or applying one at a time would help.
Also it just might be the interviewers. Too much latitude. Sorry for your plight.

[Shadow]

Just a small thing that might or might not be important.
Did your parents file the documents they brougth with the application, or were they only taking them for the interview?
If the documents were not filed, it would be very possible that a new application with full documents makes a good chance.

[GoodOlBoy]

You mentioned the Keys ... is the Whale Harbor Inn still open at Islamorada?

Still there. Still has the same great view. Prices are probably a lot higher than what you remember though!
Living here in Miami, did you ever get into eating stone crab claws and mustard?
They are in season right now and I am taking Marina out this weekend to have some.
Pounding on those things with that wooden mallet is messy, but she loves them!
 
GOB

[Turboguy]

I think the best suggestion is to try again but to just bring one.  Leaving the other spouse behind might seem like a better reason to return.  The next time you could bring the other and after that it should be no problem to bring both.


I am sorry to hear it was denied.  My wife has brought her mom over from Russia twice with no problems and I am sure she would be heartbroken if we had those problems. 



I used to come up through Punxy a lot and am probably the closest RWD member to you  except for one lady who lives in Indiana PA who hasn't been on a lot for the past year or two.  Say hello to Phil for me when he sticks his head out in Feb.

[Turboguy]

Another thought.  It helps to be very specific on travel dates.   When my MIL applied for her first visa the woman in front of her told the interviewer that he daughter was going to have a baby and she wanted to go see her grandchild and help out with its care.  The interviewer asked how long she would be staying and the woman responded she wasn't sure but 2 or 3 months.  She was denied.


My MIL went to the window and was asked how long she would be staying and her response was that she planned to go to the USA on June 29th and return on July 28th.  She was approved.  I think the specific travel dates helped even though we had not booked the tickets yet.

[ML]

As you 'oldsters' here know, my Gal got a Student Visa for 3 years.
The situation is a bit different from trying to get a Tourist Visa, but here is what we did:

We spent tons of time in preparation for the interview.
I spent hours on internet web sites reading all I could on the official USA sites and on commercial sites (at no cost) that claim they can help.

From these various websites, I came up with a lengthy list of questions that the interviewing officer might ask.

I sent all of those questions to my Gal.  They comprised a VERY long list.

Then we had 3 sessions on Skype over about 2 weeks.
In these sessions, I acted as the interviewer.
She stood during these Skype sessions because that is what she would do at the interviews.  I even felt bad for her that she stood so long (maybe a half hour or so) and was bombarded with questions; but she refused rest periods.

I asked all the questions and she answered as best she could.
At the end, I told her of the areas in which she needed to improve.

In the final practice interview, I even asked several new questions that she didn't know about before, just to give her some practice in 'thinking on her feet.'

The result of these practice interviews was that she could very quickly answer many potential questions without hesitation AND just as important, she became very confident about the process and her ability to answer questions that we had not practiced.

The actual interview took only about 5 minutes and she felt like it wasn't much different than talking to a new colleague that she had been introduced to.

Total preparation and intense practice was the key.

[Muzh]

A quick response . . . but of any help in changing the outcome?

As mentioned above . . . the Immigration Service is quite well insulated from political pressures.

FYI

The only time I used my Congressman, my MIL was in Kyiv one day before her departure and the Consular was giving her grief because we LEGALLY extended her previous stay with us. It looked like she was going to lose her flight when, in an act of desperation, I called my Congressman's office in DC. I told them of my plight and they said somebody was going to call me right back.

Yeah, right.

Ten minutes later I get a call from his local office and the guy asked me to give him all the info I had. About 40 PDFs went to his office. This was around noon EST; 7PM Kyiv time. My MIL called her daughter around 2 (or 3, can't remember) AM telling her she got her visa and was on her way to the airport.

Yep, USCIS is well insulated.

UT the DOS is not.

And these are the embassy staff's boss.

[Muzh]

The Embassy web site indicated that changes were being implemented and we should not apply until October 20, 2012, I believe, and we should review the new rules that would be posted on the site at that time. Anyway, the application is now via a form that is completed online and submitted directly from the site. The form asks only basic questions concerning employment, immediate family, past travel to USA, do you plan to commit terrorism when you arrive in the USA (love that question!), etc.

We did this with my MIL last year. Actually, I did while I was in Kharkiv. They will then ask you to pay for the use of the Consulars office visa group phone number. You have to make the payment to Privat Bank. They take CCs. I can't remember how much, but is not much at all. This will  give you, I believe 12 minutes, for your outlaws to make the necessary arrangements for their appointment date. If they spend too much time yakking on this line, they will cut you short and "please deposit another $25."

When my SIL called the Ukrainian line, she could not get through. When I would call the English line, the answer was almost immediate. Eventually, we figured out that you HAVE TO USE A LAND LINE to get through. Very important.

Good luck.

[Vaughn]

We spent tons of time in preparation for the interview......Total preparation and intense practice was the key.

That's got to be the most comprehensive interview prep I've ever heard of. Good show, ML.
 
Back in the immediate post 9-11 days, the kingpin question that foiled even K-1 hopefuls was the following: "If you speak so little English, and he speaks practically no Russian, how can you two have a meaningful relationship and engagement?"
 
It was a "fair game" question that caught many female applicants offguard, some breaking into tears - and walking away empty handed. But for any sort of interview at all, it does pay to be prepared - the main point being familiar with all the information on the application form, without fail. Just like ML's lady.
 
I remember years ago in a similar thread reading GOB's advice (IIRC) about him sending off an email to the Consulate pre-interview. I have not seen that advice repeated here and wonder what it was - or if I am only imagining it. 

[JohnMI]

Shadow: I wish we could have electronically submitted the additional documentation with the visa application, but the software offers no ability to do so. Unfortunately, if the interviewer doesn't ask to see the documents then they are never considered with the application.
 
GOB: I'm glad to hear the Whale Harbor is still around. The next time I am down that way I will have to stop in again. Never tried crabs with mustard, but it sounds pretty good! Somehow, I never made it to Joe's Stone Crabs either. When I lived in the Saga Bay area I did witness the annual migration of the crabs from the bay into the forest. That was really something to see the roads covered with a carpet of crabs!
 
Turbo: I remember when I first arrived at this site several years ago (to complain about my falling for the taxi fare scam in Odessa  ), you told me you were from the Pittsburgh area and you warned me about AnastasiaWeb. AnastasiaAsh is the woman from Indiana, and she helped me with translation for our K1 visa. I've never visited Phil in the past, but Marta seems interested in going to "the Knob" to see him this February. I hope I can talk her out of it!    If not, I will give him your best, however. Goombah first mentioned bringing one in-law over at a time, and I think that is the route we will pursue after her mother returns from Paris in the spring.

[Turboguy]

Yes, I remember you but didn't remember your username.  I figured the odds of two people from Punxy being on RWD were pretty small.  I am glad I was of some help.   Nice to see you back here.  Our W. PA contingency is pretty small.   There used to be one from the south side of the burg and there is also one other.  If I recall correctly it is MarkLeftTx that now lives south of Pittsburgh.  So over the years we have had about 5 from W. PA not counting my wife who posts occasionally.

[Muzh]

Shadow: I wish we could have electronically submitted the additional documentation with the visa application, but the software offers no ability to do so. Unfortunately, if the interviewer doesn't ask to see the documents then they are never considered with the application.
 

Even if you did, they would NOT have taken it. They will only take stuff mailed directly from your outlaws.

[Shadow]

Even if you did, they would NOT have taken it. They will only take stuff mailed directly from your outlaws.

As I do not know about American visa and procedures, it is hard to judge. However it seems to me that the application was not very well documented. In an ideal situation the interviewer should spend time preparing the interview reviewing the documents submitted. If there is a bunch of documents that are prepared but never reach the eye of the interviewer, then it would mean his preparation time was wasted.
As we are all human, on a bad day this may mean he feels justified in wasting the time of the applicants by letting them go thrugh the hoops again.

[JohnMI]

But Muzh, there is no ability to add attachments (or even footnotes, explanations or references to other documents) to the application, the application is no longer in paper format and mailed documents are not accepted. You simply scroll through a series of pages, clicking various yes-or-no boxes, for the most part. The application can actually be prepared by anyone and stored on the site until submission to the Embassy. The site provides a unique code for each application stored there, and we just passed the codes to her parents after we prepared the applications. They used the codes to submit the apps from their own computer, and they printed the confirmation sheets received in response. Anyway, this obvious catch-22 (an advisement to submit additional information to prove your foreign ties, while offering no ability to actually submit said information except in response to the interviewer actually asking to see additional information) was the reason for my rant that you all graciously endured.

[Vaughn]

Anyway, this obvious catch-22 (an advisement to submit additional information to prove your foreign ties, while offering no ability to actually submit said information except in response to the interviewer actually asking to see additional information) was the reason for my rant that you all graciously endured.

I have not filled out a D-160 to see for myself, so I must ask: On the online form, was there a provision for their intended itinerary, including specific dates of travel and location to reside while visiting? (I think TurboGuy made an excellent point earlier) And what about finances - is the applicant able to state he/she will be funding their own journey and living expenses - and if so, is the applicant also able to cite financial data supporting this claim? It is clearly stated:  In order to overcome a denial for public charge reasons, you must demonstrate you will have sufficient financial support in the United States. And since the application must stand firmly on its own, it stands to reason that no claim of sponsorial support can be considered. It could very well be that is what broke the deal.
 
From the Embassy website, it seems clear that the interviewer has the option to ask for additional supporting evidence that the applicant(s) do not intend to immigrate; therefore, the data contained within the original online application must not raise red flags - and logically, stated finances and planned itineraries would be two key factors determining whether the interview is to continue - or not. Something must have spooked them (assuming they do not issue denials for personal reasons, indifference, etc).   

[JohnMI]

I don't have the paperwork in front of me, Vaughn, so I am going from memory now. I know the application asks where the person intends to stay and the expected duration of the trip. I don't recall being asked beginning or ending dates. It also asks who is paying the travel expenses, and we are guilty of inserting my name in that block. Maybe that was a mistake that I had not considered, but the trip was to be a gift from my wife and I to her parents. On the other hand, how many visitors from FSU would be able to completely support themselves in the USA without any assistance from someone on this side? I assume my in-laws could, but I also believe they are an exception to the general rule. Maybe I am mistaken, but I assume most of the married guys on this site financially sponsor their wives' visiting relatives or friends? Yes? No?
 
I know you cannot open the application form and simply scroll through the 5 or 6 pages without completing and saving each preceding page so I will look at our printed applications when I return home tonight and fill you in on the full details at that time.

[Vaughn]

Maybe I am mistaken, but I assume most of the married guys on this site financially sponsor their wives' visiting relatives or friends? Yes? No?

 
I would also make that assumption, although the economy is vastly improved from a decade ago and more visitors are now able to pay their own way. In my MIL's case, she is a pensioner so our assistance was necessary.

[Muzh]

But Muzh, there is no ability to add attachments (or even footnotes, explanations or references to other documents) to the application, the application is no longer in paper format and mailed documents are not accepted. You simply scroll through a series of pages, clicking various yes-or-no boxes, for the most part. The application can actually be prepared by anyone and stored on the site until submission to the Embassy. The site provides a unique code for each application stored there, and we just passed the codes to her parents after we prepared the applications. They used the codes to submit the apps from their own computer, and they printed the confirmation sheets received in response. Anyway, this obvious catch-22 (an advisement to submit additional information to prove your foreign ties, while offering no ability to actually submit said information except in response to the interviewer actually asking to see additional information) was the reason for my rant that you all graciously endured.

Let me make myself a lit bit more clear.

Even if YOUR outlaws email anything to them, they will reject it.

Are they making it hard for Ukrainians apply for a US Visa? You betcha.

Only those with ample resources will have no problem.

Get the hint?[/quote]

[mies]

Then this clause ..
"An applicant refused under Section 214(b) should review carefully their situation and realistically evaluate their ties. They may write down on paper what qualifying ties they think they have which may not have been evaluated at the time of their interview with the consular officer. Also, if they have been refused, they should review what documents were submitted for the consul to consider. Applicants refused visas under section 214(b) may reapply for a visa. When they do, they will have to show further evidence of their ties or how their circumstances have changed since the time of the original application. It may help to answer the following questions before reapplying: (1) Did I explain my situation accurately? (2) Did the consular officer overlook something? (3) Is there any additional information I can present to establish my residence and strong ties abroad?"

I think it could be better if they apply 1 at a time. And before applying for US visa - get for them some tours to Europe. To show that they travel to "better countries" and returned back.
When one parent travels, and another stays at home - this is a good reason to return home. If they take care of the grandchild - this is an additional reason to return home.
Probably they will not be applying for tourist visa in the nearest year (or else - they would get another denial).

Have you considered waiting until your wife will get the US citizenship, and then apply for her parents for permanent residency in USA?

[tfcrew]

Re-apply.

Wife's son's MIL was  denied the visa...re-applied and then got one.

[As I had suggested to them]