AFA fake girl profiles!!!...

[jone]

For all of you who say he shouldn't post their info online, I say; "Phooey on you!"

I happen to believe that the girls are not innocent.  My belief is that they are induced to put their profiles on the site - and will accommodate men to the extent that they receive some benefit from it.  I also happen to believe that the women that Chilie conversed with were well aware that they were being used to appear on that website.

One of the requirments (according to this agency) that is used for these women is that they are required to give Passport IDs at the time of sign up.  Accordingly, someone led them, by the nose probably, into an agency and put their names up.  They are not innocent.  Not by a longshot.  Of the women that I have talked to, this is the usual method of operation. 

AD further entices them by giving them a photospread of pictures.  The terp that I use in Kharkiv is one such woman that went in and got her pictures and was online.  Of interest is that she admitted to using a fake name online.  If I didn't know her - and somewhat enjoy her company - I would have questioned her ethics.  Instead I got her to elaborate.  She basically said, 'everyone does it'. 

There seem to be two types of women that use the MOB pay per message sites.  Those that are in it for the money and those who are too stupid to be in it for the money.

So keep up the good work, Chile, me boy.  And don't let these second guessers hold you back.  Maybe you'll find someone that wants to hook up with you and then you'll have even a bigger problem.  What are you going to do with a Ukranian girlfriend?

If it were me, and they asked me what I would do, I'd say; "I'll marry 'em all I betcha!"  HA!

[Chelseaboy]

It always amuses me how the Sir Galahad's/second guessers on these forums always assume the FSU girl is innocent until proven guilty.
 
And yet the men in this venture are always assumed guilty,until proven innocent.

[Daveman]

For all of you who say he shouldn't post their info online, I say; "Phooey on you!"

I happen to believe that the girls are not innocent.

And therein lies the crux.. for the integrity of the forum, we can stop at the word "believe".  They may not be innocent, however, we are talking about personal info as linked to personal web pages connected with accusations. 

It always amuses me how the Sir Galahad's/second guessers on these forums always assume the FSU girl is innocent until proven guilty.
 
And yet the men in this venture are always assumed guilty,until proven innocent.

And how many threads and links would it take to list all possible scammers, et al, on AFA, HRB, or any of the pay per view sites?


The men are not "guilty", but rather responsible for their own choices and actions.  Sometimes that reality isn't pleasant to hear but is necessary to accept in this game.


I doubt many would feel sorry for someone sending all his money to a get rich quick, too good to be true money con.. most would say "sorry you got played, but that was freakin' dumb... at the very least, you should have researched the investment further... yeah, those responsible for the con  should be dragged out and shot, however, you chose to play a stupid game because you wanted to believe that you would get something for nothing.


That stupidity extrapolates well, IMO...

[Chelseaboy]

Agreed,
 
           And the women in the FSU are just as responsible for their own choices and actions,yet they always seem to be protected for their actions,whilst the men are castigated,
 
Let's just have a level playing field regarding the duplicity involved in this venture from both sexes,without always assuming the man is in the wrong everytime...because he isn't.
 
Another new poster mentioned in another thread on this forum,regarding a pro-dater, about how newbie men are belittled on here for their mistakes.
 
I read elsewhere on another forum where it seems that the men that are succesful in finding a wife in the FSU are the ones that look at everything in a cold,analytical,businesslike  way.
 
Not all men are like that,some act from the heart,they're not robots.
 
And whilst we're comparing this to sellers of get-rich quick cons,the likes of Bernie Madoff go to prison for that,currently serving a 150 year sentence,because it's a crime.

[Daveman]

Agreed,
 
           And the women in the FSU are just as responsible for their own choices and actions,yet they always seem to be protected for their actions,whilst the men are castigated,
 
Let's just have a level playing field regarding the duplicity involved in this venture from both sexes,without always assuming the man is in the wrong everytime...because he isn't.

I've been accused a number of times of protecting people - men, women, those less favored, those who have less popular ideas of how to go about this, those who don't fit in with the majority viewpoints... and that's true as a side effect of protecting the integrity of the forum (as I define my responsibility).


The scenario as we have it is not that the man is right or wrong but rather that he, generally speaking, is the one that is here and the only one who may learn something from his experience and forum input. 


What should we do? just spend hours telling men how bad that woman is?  Make lists of scammers due to the finger pointing a one person?  That seems to me as more of a witch burning than anything of value.  Scammers exist.  It's far more productive for guys to learn the patterns which indicate the operation of the scams rather than merely pointing fingers at individual scammers. 


Plus, it's usually a "he said, she's not around to say" type scenario. 

Another new poster mentioned in another thread on this forum,regarding a pro-dater, about how newbie men are belittled on here for their mistakes.

Only when they don't accept their role in what transpired.  And then again, others tend to take some posts far to seriously anyway. 

I read elsewhere on another forum where it seems that the men that are succesful in finding a wife in the FSU are the ones that look at everything in a cold,analytical,businesslike  way.
 
Not all men are like that,some act from the heart,they're not robots.

Acting from the heart is fine and dandy as long as one doesn't close off the brain in the process. 

[size=78%] [/size]
And whilst we're comparing this to sellers of get-rich quick investments,the likes of Bernie Madoff go to prison for that,because it's a crime.

Personally, I think the penalty should be far more severe than prison... but that's just me.. 

[jone]

And therein lies the crux.. for the integrity of the forum, we can stop at the word "believe".  They may not be innocent, however, we are talking about personal info as linked to personal web pages connected with accusations. 

So, by having Chilie bring these women to the light we are doing what?  Putting their profiles on the internet (which are already there in multiple places) or identifying them with a MOB agency?  (Heaven forbid!!!)

John Adams, who runs AFA, claims that all three of those women gave him their passport information.  I would be happy to send you the email that I received from him.  You can look at these women with Rose colored glasses, but let's call 'em what they are:  duplicitous opportunistic women who when confronted with the truth lied to Chilie.  Either they put their profiles up there themselves, or someone paid them for their information.  You'll notice when someone confronted them, they didn't turn around and take their profiles off of AFA.  As a matter of record, Adams claimed he went back and talked to each of them and reconfirmed their profiles.

You can confront a prostitute who advertises online and she will say that someone stole her picture and that she really isn't escorting men.  But we all know the score, all you have to do is call her number and she will come warm your bed.  These women never pay off by being the brides they claim to be.  So who is more honest?  The prostitute who still actually provides a direct service or these women who are lying to the men trying to date them?

DaveMan, I understand that you wish to protect the innocent from having their personalities dragged and smeared across the internet.  But my observation is that bringing to light that a woman's profile is the same as her facebook page gives them the opportunity to rebut.  Not having done so and then having the web respository reconfirm the information only makes them out to be liars.  Something we have all found frequently in this sordid business to the reality.

The service the Chilie has done is given reality to these discussions.  Legally, it is not an actionable item.  And the grey-area laws that surround this industry make the details elusive.  Here is hard evidence that there are women who do not wish to be recognized because they are using the service to entice men to spend money.  Whether they are receiving money directly as a result of men spending it, or they were just paid for their pictures, we can only guess. 

But if an 18 year old girl is advertising to the love of her life that is 60, you can bet that she isn't there because she wants to marry him.  How many 18 year olds want to marry their grandfathers?

Protect the innocent?  From having their names smeared?  Possibly.  But if it walks, talks and squawks like a duck, it's a duck. 

[calmissile]

For all of you who say he shouldn't post their info online, I say; "Phooey on you!"

I happen to believe that the girls are not innocent.  My belief is that they are induced to put their profiles on the site - and will accommodate men to the extent that they receive some benefit from it.  I also happen to believe that the women that Chilie conversed with were well aware that they were being used to appear on that website.

One of the requirments (according to this agency) that is used for these women is that they are required to give Passport IDs at the time of sign up.  Accordingly, someone led them, by the nose probably, into an agency and put their names up.  They are not innocent.  Not by a longshot.  Of the women that I have talked to, this is the usual method of operation. 

AD further entices them by giving them a photospread of pictures.  The terp that I use in Kharkiv is one such woman that went in and got her pictures and was online.  Of interest is that she admitted to using a fake name online.  If I didn't know her - and somewhat enjoy her company - I would have questioned her ethics.  Instead I got her to elaborate.  She basically said, 'everyone does it'. 

There seem to be two types of women that use the MOB pay per message sites.  Those that are in it for the money and those who are too stupid to be in it for the money.

So keep up the good work, Chile, me boy.  And don't let these second guessers hold you back.  Maybe you'll find someone that wants to hook up with you and then you'll have even a bigger problem.  What are you going to do with a Ukranian girlfriend?

If it were me, and they asked me what I would do, I'd say; "I'll marry 'em all I betcha!"  HA!

Your comment is too far reaching IMO.  I have met women on pay per letter sites that are neither scammers nor paid for writing letters.  Of those I met, they were on a pay per letter site because they needed the translation services.  I agree that we should all avoid the pay per letter sites, but your allegation goes to far.

[jone]

Your comment is too far reaching IMO.  I have met women on pay per letter sites that are neither scammers nor paid for writing letters.  Of those I met, they were on a pay per letter site because they needed the translation services.  I agree that we should all avoid the pay per letter sites, but your allegation goes to far.

Of course it is too far reaching.  It is too far reaching because the nature of the service entails abuse.  Curb the abuse and help both the honest men online and the honest women that are trying to meet someone.  I, too, have met honest women on pay per letter sites.  But that does not excuse the (obvious) fraud.

If we, who understand (to a small extent) how these systems work, and don't stand up to be heard, who, then, shall do so?

[calmissile]

Of course it is too far reaching.  It is too far reaching because the nature of the service entails abuse.  Curb the abuse and help both the honest men online and the honest women that are trying to meet someone.  I, too, have met honest women on pay per letter sites.  But that does not excuse the (obvious) fraud.

If we, who understand (to a small extent) how these systems work, and don't stand up to be heard, who, then, shall do so?

No argument, it was just that you inferred that all women on pay per letter sites are in it for the money.  That's all.

[Daveman]

...
Protect the innocent?  From having their names smeared?  Possibly.  But if it walks, talks and squawks like a duck, it's a duck.

This is something I reiterate time and time again.. it's not about protecting individuals, though that happens as part of the process, but rather protecting the integrity of RWD.  We are not a venue for conducting trials.  So what does RWD have?  A gentleman who presents some evidence which the accused deny (and would deny whether innocent or guilty - as I mentioned up thread).  It doesn't really matter if they are lying or not.  What about the other 3,548,763 scammers, baiters, prostitutes, pro-daters, letter-writers on the site?


Which is more beneficial - "these three ducks crap on you" or "this is how to avoid *all* the damn duck crap in the first place".


Some free form relational sentence play...


"these three ladies at AFA are scammers" :"these three particles at the beach are grains of sand". 

Which ladies are actually the scammers?  Which scammers are using fake/stolen profiles, photos, identies?  Which ladies are the victims of an emotionally unstable ex-partner out for the only revenge to be had under the guise of 'just helping others"? 


Jone, I get your points. I really do.  And you sum up one of mine here:

Of course it is too far reaching.  It is too far reaching because the nature of the service entails abuse.  Curb the abuse and help both the honest men online and the honest women that are trying to meet someone.  I, too, have met honest women on pay per letter sites.  But that does not excuse the (obvious) fraud.

If we, who understand (to a small extent) how these systems work, and don't stand up to be heard, who, then, shall do so?

So we agree.. exposing these systems is best way to combat duck crap.   

[newjason]

For all of you who say he shouldn't post their info online, I say; "Phooey on you!"

I happen to believe that the girls are not innocent. My belief is that they are induced to put their profiles on the site - and will accommodate men to the extent that they receive some benefit from it.  I also happen to believe that the women that Chilie conversed with were well aware that they were being used to appear on that website.

One of the requirments (according to this agency) that is used for these women is that they are required to give Passport IDs at the time of sign up.  Accordingly, someone led them, by the nose probably, into an agency and put their names up.  They are not innocent.  Not by a longshot.  Of the women that I have talked to, this is the usual method of operation. 

AD further entices them by giving them a photospread of pictures.  The terp that I use in Kharkiv is one such woman that went in and got her pictures and was online.  Of interest is that she admitted to using a fake name online. If I didn't know her - and somewhat enjoy her company - I would have questioned her ethics.  Instead I got her to elaborate.  She basically said, 'everyone does it'. 

So where have you posted the links that expose this terp woman on a similar site or thread? 
please show how you have upheld your belief that all of them should be exposed because they are not innocent. She admitted it.  So expose her.
Do you think that would benefit anyone?
Like I said before.
I think it would be a poor choice to post her vk or fb page on here.


I understand your points completely.  But I think there are much better ways to go about getting the desired results.

[jone]

So where have you posted the links that expose this terp woman on a similar site or thread? 
please show how you have upheld your belief that all of them should be exposed because they are not innocent. She admitted it.  So expose her. Do you think that would benefit anyone?
Like I said before.  I think it would be a poor choice to post her vk or fb page on here.

I understand your points completely.  But I think there are much better ways to go about getting the desired results.

The TERP is not on VK or FB to my knowledge - and her profile is no longer active.  She is professionally a TERP now.  (I suppose I could give you her phone number.  She is very pretty.)  But the real issue is that someone who is attempting to bring people to light is not endorsed.  Should you all have said, 'Great Job, Chilie'  keep up the good work, but in the future, we don't need to see the names, I would have agreed with all of you.  But instead the OP was vilified for directly exposing scammers. 

In the Tom Hanks movie, Angels and Demons, the real culprit is finally exposed, but the cardinal looked at his security team and says:  'Treat him gently.'   And Chilie certainly was no culprit but someone trying to contribute to the general knowledge.  Because this is a forum, there are lots of opinions.  I happen to believe someone who is dilligently seeking the truth, and wants some affirmation, should get it.  And congratulations, as well.

But I also do happen to subscribe to the 'Integrity of the Forum' point of view.  (a la DaveMan) It was for this reason that I reached out and directly confronted the owners of AFA to see what their response would be, without naming names or venues.

My observation is this:  Every once in awhile you get someone energetic enough to make a difference.  To those people, I say:  'Hell, yes!'  One of them is worth 10 of the second guessers.  New blood?  Just like in the movie 'Twilight'.  It is always the strongest.

A forum, like a body politic will never have a universal voice.  Some extremism is necessary to frame the arguments.  And if I am on the fringe for the above observations, we are all the poorer for it.

Just call me Hector Balbosa!  Argh!

[jone]

I did mean Hector Barbossa.

[newjason]

The TERP is not on VK or FB to my knowledge - and her profile is no longer active.  She is professionally a TERP now.  (I suppose I could give you her phone number.  She is very pretty.)  But the real issue is that someone who is attempting to bring people to light is not endorsed.  Should you all have said, 'Great Job, Chilie'  keep up the good work, but in the future, we don't need to see the names, I would have agreed with all of you.  But instead the OP was vilified for directly exposing scammers. 

In the Tom Hanks movie, Angels and Demons, the real culprit is finally exposed, but the cardinal looked at his security team and says:  'Treat him gently.'   And Chilie certainly was no culprit but someone trying to contribute to the general knowledge.  Because this is a forum, there are lots of opinions.  I happen to believe someone who is dilligently seeking the truth, and wants some affirmation, should get it.  And congratulations, as well.

But I also do happen to subscribe to the 'Integrity of the Forum' point of view.  (a la DaveMan) It was for this reason that I reached out and directly confronted the owners of AFA to see what their response would be, without naming names or venues.

My observation is this:  Every once in awhile you get someone energetic enough to make a difference.  To those people, I say:  'Hell, yes!'  One of them is worth 10 of the second guessers.  New blood?  Just like in the movie 'Twilight'.  It is always the strongest.

A forum, like a body politic will never have a universal voice.  Some extremism is necessary to frame the arguments.  And if I am on the fringe for the above observations, we are all the poorer for it.

Just call me Hector Balbosa!  Argh!

So the terp woman moved on from her MOB involvement and into something more respectable. Good for her.
Now , and this is my point,  If someone like chile had posted her name and personal info , links to her  social networks , ect..  She would not have the ability to free herself from that accusation.
and say for instance, if you goggled her name before hiring her, and found that she was accused of questionable dealings in the MOB businesses, and other possible activities, you may have passed on hiring her.
Stuff that gets posted on the internet, never goes away.  It will forever be following a person.  So what if these girls were to someday want to get into a respectable profession, and their customer, or employer Google their name and find somethings that may or may not have happened some odd years ago. Then those women can be denied for all kinds of opportunities to better themselves.
To further complicate this, every step they take to leave that past behind, is met with a link back to that post with the accusation. So, would she likely just return to being a scammer as it is the only way she can support herself? It's very possible. If she was ever really doing anything wrong in the first place.

This is not a game, this kind of stuff can ruin peoples lives forever.
Pat the OP on the back for that if you wish.
I don't see the chivalry of his actions.

In fact, I would bet that no RW will find the OP's actions Noble, or congratulatory and would state that a real man, would never do something like this.

[jone]

This is where our opinions differ.  He contacted them, gave them the option and found them to be lying.  I further confirmed that truth.  I have no sympathy for them.  As for the women that I know to be looking for husbands on the MOB circuit, they would be very pleased to get rid of the women that pollute their waters scaring away the men who actually might be someone that they could be introduced to.

Simultaneously, I have known women to go to great lengths to get men barred from MOB sites or other avenues of contact because they were misrepresenting themselves.  Hell hath no wrath . . . .  And I also condemn any such men who are out there scamming women to get into bed with them or abduct them or using them for their own entertainment.

You have validated the double standard talked about above on this thread.  You want the man to be chivalrous to a woman that is lying.  And you don't want her exposed.  DaveMan's point of view is much more palatable.  Defend the integrity of RWD. 

I have no sympathy for these women.  And, personally, I do have problems with their ethics.  In the thread above, I did tell you that I also had problems with the TERP's ethics.  So I will not slam Chilie for bringing to light a very specific instance where there was proof given that three women were not telling the truth.  If they didn't want their names on the internet, then they shouldn't have yielded their passports, pictures and attempted to fraudulently obtain money from unsuspecting foreigners.

NewJason, your point of view is acknowledged.  Innocents should not be harmed.  These women are far from innocent. 

And as to the idea that the internet is permanent -- everything we do in life is permanent.  Our pasts are always with us.  It is semantics to imagine that because something doesn't appear in the written record it can be flushed from our systems.  We carry all good and bad that we have done in this life with us until we meet our maker.

Having incited this dramatic slugfest over the past few weeks, I am sure Chilie will think twice about EVER posting on this forum again.  I sure would if I were him.

[newjason]

If you have hard evidence of wrong doing report it to the authorities.

[Shadow]

The thing which very few men realise is that before making any accusations towards a woman you will have to have hard evidence it is her.

It is extremely simple to take a vKontakte profile, copy the pictures and name and use it to create a dating profile. Photoshop would even allow sending a passport image so a business like AFA would make a just claim.

Many of the scams are ran not by individual women, but by professional organizations who pay their workers to create profiles, write letters and collect money. If anything goes wrong, the individual woman who had her identity stolen is posted on the internet, profile discarded and ten new made.

So unless one has had a personal meeting with a woman who then proceeded to scam, posting her data on the internet is protecting criminals, not the women.

[Chelseaboy]

"In fact,i would bet that no RW will find the OP's actions noble,or congratulatory and would state that a real man would never do something like this."
newjason,what a ludicrous statement.
 
So,exposing the corrupt practises of dating sites and their local girls/agencies is dishonorable is it Sir Galahad ?
 
Well,if i was involved with a FSU girl who thought the exposing of corruption wasn't noble,then i would dump her like a shot,because it shows me her mindset.
 
Let's get one thing straight,these sites and many of their girls/local agencies are indulging in criminal activity by deceiving thousands of men for money and gifts.
Those girls are worse than prostitutes.Prostitutes offer a service to men that are willing to pay for it..no deception.
Pro-daters and scammers deceive men by pretending to have feelings for those men,in order to extort money/gifts out of them...total deception..just like the con-men who extort money out of people in get-rich quick cons.
They are thieves and scammers....criminal activities.It isn't just about the money,it's the emotional turmoil they cause in their victims,just like the Bernie Madoffs of this world do.
 
So,real men should just let them carry on with their corrupt activities,without naming and shaming them ?
Hmmm,sounds more like the behaviour of nancy boys to me,frightened to upset the girls.
 
 
It's guys like you that would prefer to turn a blind eye to what goes on in the FSU,preferring to belittle the  men victims, that enables these pro-daters and scammers to thrive out there,along with the fools that allow themselves to be taken advantage of.
 
 
 
 

[newjason]

prefer to turn a blind eye?
Hardly.  If you have real proof, then do something with it.
Jumping to conclusions without any real evidence,
is very dangerous.
Again, this is not going to benefit anyone by posting links to personal profiles
based in what he said/ she said.
You don't know all the facts, you are attacking me because you assume that I want to protect scammers.
Well there again you are mistaken.

I choose too errr on the side of caution and beleive that there are better ways to go about  exposing of corruption. 

[jone]

John Adams / AFA:

First Reply:

Thanks for sending this to us.  If these women are not real we will investigate and remove them.  We are not in the business of perpetuating fraud in any way shape or form.  We have strict rules as to fake profiles.  We will obviously look in to the ones that you have here and if it is true we will remove them and take appropriate action with whoever submitted them.  We do require passport info and we do call each woman before posting the profile, but there is always a chance that our of 40,000 plus profiles that there are a few that could be problematic, I am sure that happens on most sites out there.  Please, if you find any others let us know as soon as possible

Second Reply:

We have already contacted the women, one says that she is working with the agency from Poltava and they call her in Kiev, (she recently moved there) for letters, she absolutely knows about the agency and does not have a problem with it.  We have her answer from her own vcontact page for anyone who wants to see it.  One says that she was with an affiliate agency in Lugansk, the one that posted her, so she did join but has not really been active, we also confirmed that with the agency in Lugansk, so we will remove her.  We are still working on the third woman, and if there is any problem with her we will remove her.

*****************************************************************************

Here is the evidence that you wanted.  The women were lying.  I remarked in previous posts that I had contacted AFA directly.  Or perhaps you thought I was not telling the truth. . . .

*****************************************************************************

If you have hard evidence of wrong doing report it to the authorities.

Report it to the authorities!!!!  What authorities?   Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.  Was that an emotional response coming at the end of a long day? Or did you come up with that after your efforts at a response failed you? That was, perhaps, the dumbest thing I have heard on this forum.  NewJason, I will not be responding to anything else you say.

I have said my piece.  I backed it up, originally, with direct contact to the agency to confirm that the women responded to Chilie falsely.  I understand DaveMan's argument about the integrity of RWD.

I hope that new contributors to this discussion will be treated more honorably, especially when they are making a substantial effort at bringing things of interest to the forum.

[jone]

The thing which very few men realise is that before making any accusations towards a woman you will have to have hard evidence it is her.

It is extremely simple to take a vKontakte profile, copy the pictures and name and use it to create a dating profile. Photoshop would even allow sending a passport image so a business like AFA would make a just claim.

Many of the scams are ran not by individual women, but by professional organizations who pay their workers to create profiles, write letters and collect money. If anything goes wrong, the individual woman who had her identity stolen is posted on the internet, profile discarded and ten new made.

So unless one has had a personal meeting with a woman who then proceeded to scam, posting her data on the internet is protecting criminals, not the women.

I agree with you, Shadow, but if there is known complicity, i.e. both the Agency and the women are at fault then both should be brought to light.  There are real people at the end of the pictures online.  And, ultimately, someone other than ourselves is going to be able to notify the women that their pictures are being used. 

But the contention brought forth in this thread was that the women had knowledge that their pictures were being used.  Which was confirmed by the agency.    And, once identified to the women, they did not ask the agency to remove the pictures, but reconfirmed, demonstrating complicity.

Again, we should not vilify a newbie for trying to bring something of interest to the forum.  That, in my opinion, is a greater crime.

[Chelseaboy]

newjason,
               So,which better method do you know of exposing the corruption in the FSU  agencies/girls,other than naming and shaming them ?
 
p.s.currently 11 members and 71 guests viewing this topic,so no doubt they'll all be intrigued by your answer.

[Shadow]

I agree with you, Shadow, but if there is known complicity, i.e. both the Agency and the women are at fault then both should be brought to light.  There are real people at the end of the pictures online.  And, ultimately, someone other than ourselves is going to be able to notify the women that their pictures are being used. 

But the contention brought forth in this thread was that the women had knowledge that their pictures were being used.  Which was confirmed by the agency.    And, once identified to the women, they did not ask the agency to remove the pictures, but reconfirmed, demonstrating complicity.

Again, we should not vilify a newbie for trying to bring something of interest to the forum.  That, in my opinion, is a greater crime.

But once again, we should also have a full understanding of how things work before claiming to have 'exposed' a scammer or fake profile.

If you read the response given to you by AFA you will get a first idea of the system. The women who are putting up their profiles on a site like AFA do not do this them selves. They visit an agency, and the agency holds a take-in meeting then puts up a profile. Now depending on how busy the woman is, and how much real interest she has after the initial conversation, the agency will collect a number of prospects and with the information they have answer initial letters. They relay this to the woman who may or may not be interested enough to get in to the conversation with the prospects.

This by itself holds of course the possibility for the agency to drop work ethics and lure in more cash as they would make from interested connections alone, often referred to as writing to the translator. But in itself if done with good ethics it is a harmless practice that saved the women of becoming jaded by the at times far below honourable letters some men write.

If at this time a question like about the vKontakte pages comes up, it is up to the soundness of communication if a correct answers is received. For instance, I remember a very long time ago making one as I write this, but if you would have asked me yesterday if the page was mine I might have denied it.

Now if I read the answer correctly, one out of three is active and searching, one has been removed due to inactivity, and one is still undecided about.
That means that for at least one woman the removal of data was correct.

[jone]

Shadow,

You are absolutely right about the way the agencies work.  Moreover, the communication that most men are having is with an agency wonk, whether online (chat) or through letter writing.  When I was exploring this, originally, I made it a point to discern immediately if I was talking to the woman or the wonk.  This is done by asking direct questions.  (Like:  What area of Kyiv do you live in?)  Most cannot answer these questions because they don't either know or have permission to disclose such details. If they fail to answer the questions, you are talking to a wonk. 

Sometimes the women will say, "get me some men to talk to" so the agency wonk goes out and talks up men until they have a reasonable contact and then bring in the lady.

I don't know who gave the original report that stated that the easiest women to secure direct time with (actually talking to the lady) was the most recent sign-ups of the agency.  That bares inspection.  I believe it to be true.

Ultimately, using the doublespeak of the AFA response, one of the ladies is 'inactive'.  But none claimed not to be the woman on the system.  I think that ultimately this thread exposes how detached from the actual letter writing and 'chatting' most women are.  The idea that they are there on their computers every night, for hours upon hours answering men's letters and chatting with them on the computers is a lie.

Are the women complicit?  Of course they are.  But the real perpetrators of the crimes are the agencies who deceive to make money and the overall MOB PPL / PPC sites that support them.

[Shadow]

Are the women complicit?  Of course they are.  But the real perpetrators of the crimes are the agencies who deceive to make money and the overall MOB PPL / PPC sites that support them.

However also here is quite a caveat. Having researched this in the past on both sides of the medal, I know for a fact that the agencies certainly are not all of bad intent, and the large sites are even often idealistic in their ideas.
However they are also confronted with a reality that the men who pass on to forums like these are actually among the top 3% of quality men, and I include every single member in that also those who we may feel the need to give a dose of reality.
Fact is that huge amounts of money are made on men who will be very happy to dream but would never have the possibility to do more than that. These men are making the contacts, seeking and chatting with the women and paying the letters, even if that alone overdraws their credit card.

Within the business model of agencies, this is a money maker, and as long as it is the main money maker they are not going to change.
As long as 97% of the men in those agencies is more interested in a virtual girlfriend as in a life partner, we can only hope that those men and women who do try to seriously search can learn to avoid these areas and get in to direct contact another way.