First timer headed to Ukraine

[Belvis]

  How about letting her do something for you, like cook you a meal?

Or cooking a special  meal for her  A taxi ride around the industrial town is not popular entertainment. There are a few museums in Lugans, skating-rinks,  concerts are going on, parks with winter fun (amusement for her daugther). 

[Danchik]

Some of my concerns about Anna are first and foremost the language. Her English is not as good as I thought. It was difficult at times. I am trying to learn as much as I can. She is rather quiet and reserved....but that is what I had thought. She is no chatterbox thats for sure.

Be patient with her.

Of course she's not going to be a chatterbox. Put yourself in her shoes, and change the whole conversation to Russian and see how much you have to say. Also, she probably is afraid of making mistakes, in which case, she doesn't want to appear stupid. I guarantee if she could speak Russian, you'd see a change in attitude

Don't jump to any conclusions. You just met in reality. I have had relations that started slow, but ended up in a good place. Much of it is just language and the normal feeling out process. Again, be patient, even more so than with a woman from your country. If you have a translator, or Russian-English dictionary, I would definitely be using it. It will relax the situation, plus add to some closeness.

One of my others concerns is attitude. I am having a difficult time understanding if it is just her or a FSUW thing. Not towards me, just life in general. I wanted to take a taxi with her and just drive around and see some sights, get a feel for the town. "Lugansk is an industrial city with nothing to see or do, its just gray" she says. Ok....forget that then.

I wouldn't be so concerned with this either. Remember, they're not Americans, so they're typically going to be somber, especially in winter. Don't read to much into it.

It's a new day and I am feeling more relaxed so we will see how it goes.

Great, keep an open mind. Above all, enjoy.

[Doll]

One of my others concerns is attitude. I am having a difficult time understanding if it is just her or a FSUW thing. Not towards me, just life in general. I wanted to take a taxi with her and just drive around and see some sights, get a feel for the town. "Lugansk is an industrial city with nothing to see or do, its just gray" she says. Ok....forget that then.

Nothing to do with her "attitude"- she said what she thought.
Yes, it is a FSU thing- to be sincere.
Instead of "forget it" you need to explain why you want it.

[Doll]

Lonedrake, let me ask you- you knew she didn't speak decent English and now you are wondering why she is "quiet and reserved?"
Hello!
Like people said here, try to put yourself in her shoes and be bubbling and "sparkling" with a very limited language. Can you do it?
I doubt.

[Doll]

And there where taxi drives on the other side. None of the five gathered around me spoke english.Lets just say......lesson learned...the hard way.

It is terrible! They should! 

[lonedrake]

 Today was education day   know I screwed up and admit it. It is hard to swallow my pride and say that I was wrong...but I make huge mistakes....so I learn from them. This is trial by fire and I have much to learn.

 When I woke up this morning I had decision to make. My back-up plan involved catching a plane to Kiev and then taxi into Belarus to girl that really wants to meet me. Much more so than Anna did.
But she also has limited English. So I scratch the back up plan. Thats a bad idea and I will not be going there. I even have visa for Belarus.

Main lesson for me today. Decent English speaking girls only.

 So I text Anna at 9am. No response. Now I am not 100% sure if she got the message as it was on rental phone and I did have problems with it the other day. But  I did not worry as I was not seeing long term future with her. That was just my instinct.

 There are two sides to every story. In the end it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I accept my mistakes. Happens all the time.
 
 So here I am.In Ukraine alone with no love

 Time for plan C.

 Spend some time on internet and was able to speak on the phone with two girls. We understand each other much better. I will meet one for lunch tomorrow

After we made plans she sent me a message(i have to go get it)

 

[Faux Pas]

Lone

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Personally, given the parameters you have mentioned and taking into account the things you haven't mentioned about Anna going South. Also, your admittance that you screwed the pooch. I question if you're pulling the plug on Anna too early. You clearly have a communication problem. Maybe you should get that rectified before pulling the plug?

If you do opt for plan C, can you see now why it was a good idea to secure your own flat?

[lonedrake]

 I thought her message was very nice and it made me feel pretty good. Granted they are just words....but words have meaning.

"Honestly! I marvel at you!To go to a long trip!One,not knowing Russian language! You are a hero!I admire you!"

[lonedrake]

Faux,

 I know I have communication problem. I don't speak any russian. I never ended anything and its still up in the air....but my time is limited.

 I do have my own flat.

[lonedrake]

 Doll.

 I do not expect the drivers to speak English. I learn lesson the hard way. I am leaving important details out that I do not want to discuss.

[Faux Pas]

Faux,

 I know I have communication problem. I don't speak any russian. I never ended anything and its still up in the air....but my time is limited.

 I do have my own flat.

Didn't you mention that you took a laptop? Google translate works pretty good. There are a number of other free online programs as well. If nothing else, before your shitcan Anna, get some champagne and OJ, make some mimosas, sit down with her and try to get a meeting of the minds. Find a local who can translate if you need to.

Seems to me, (only MHO) you'd be doing yourself a bigger disservice leaving UA without giving it everything you have. You've already made the trip and she is the one that prompted you to do it. For some reason, whatever it may be, you two are together. If you hightail and leave, do it with a clear conscience that you gave it the old college try and gave it your all.

[ML]

So here I am.In Ukraine alone with no love

Think of  how you would be feeling and what you would be doing if you had followed:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

[lonedrake]

Faux,
 I did bring a laptop and we did sit down and use the google translate. It worked pretty good.We also had a mini dictionary that we used.

 Its hard for me to explain exactly why I think its over, but its not like I have any plans tonight.

 Just mini red flags that tell me she is not serious and /or just thinks I am a dumb ass. Could be either.

 First mini read flag. Profile says no children. 2nd e-mail she says she has daughter. I ask her about it and she does change profile. Mistakes happen...but how many people forget they have children?

 Ok...so we continue on our messaging. I skype her and like her.

 2nd mini red flag. 2-3 hours late on first meeting. No big deal.

 So she arrives yesterday. All is good. Holding hands smiling. nice.

 We go to market. I do not understand about banks(my fault) so I have her exchange 100 to grivnas. We shop and pick out supplies for apartment. I have her pay...and the wine could not be purchased in that line. I carry both bags and she holds money. Later that night I ask about change(it was about 400grivnas) so she gives me receipt. So I have to go to laptop and say I go to market in morning. Oh..she says and gives me the money but she takes 25 for taxi. No big deal I give her an extra 25. Even though it was a small amount of money it just stuck me as odd that she would help herself.

  Earlier that day I told her I was still going to buy her birthday present. I believe this was the kiss of death. She said "No problem. Later this week"

 Anyways we were walking around center square and she was showing me around and we end up in the mall. She said she needed to buy spring jacket. So we looked at and tried on white jackets wherever she could find one. She caught me off guard when she said "Buy this one" So I said" Tomorrow"

 I knew that I had screwed up.

 All I can do is learn from it and the main problem was we were not on the same page due to language.

[anm8tr]

Main lesson for me today. Decent English speaking girls only.

That would be my first suggestion! Although it limits your pool of eligible women, you will certainly optimize your time much better if you can eliminate the translation issues. Obviously many people here have been down the same path and came out the other end unscathed and a few married, but I could not imagine having to go through that myself especially  after reading all the stories here about hassles with taxi drivers, translators and friends having to get involved in what could or should be a more intimate and personal setting in which to develop the friendship without mistranslation and misunderstandings.


Also I feel your pain regarding getting your change back. That is something I experienced as well and it had me very puzzled, although not a very large amount, it just seemed strange that the women are not quite tuned in to that mannerism. Is it another cultural thing in the Ukraine, anyone?


I just let the change thing slide since she made every effort to get to my apartment via taxi. I gave her money for taxi anyway but apparently it wasn't enough.


But, yes! Find an English speaking woman and you will have eliminated half the battle!


Hiding the child was not a good sign! If she cannot be upfront from the beginning, that is a red flag as far as I am concerned and in my experience with women in general.

[CDW]

 What if she has a big ass?

You did not know if she has a big ass or not, because you haven't looked at her photo for her figure ??????

The real question is not what if she has a big ass, but what if she is a wheelchair user ????!!!!

[I/O]

LD: I wouldn't be too quick to answer everyones specific comments or questions as that has the potential to point a thread like this (good one so far) south almost instantly.
 
I'm a little with FP here and more based on my own experience than anything else, although, I well acknowledge I've been our of the dating, chasing, visiting (whatever you like to call it) game for a number of years. I always found it took about 4 days to get to the crux of things and often around that time for her (whomever she happened to be at the time) to open up - Mrs I/O was very reserved for two weeks and I remember thinking it was a waste of time for both of us - it was partly her and partly the language thing as it was with most others.
 
I've never bought into the argument that with RW's or UAW's you'll know instantly whether or not they're into you. Some cases yes, most cases no IME. Be sure, as FP mentioned, not to throw the baby out with the bathwater - in this case I think the bathwater is the circumstances and..................you won't like this, but I've seen it too many times and maybe even felt it myself - 'different seems wrong' initially and people get their backs up a little when out of their comfort zone, everything there and everyone there is wrong. You appear to be slightly in that zone right now which will, I assure you, pass.
 
In Ukraine and no love? I can't imagine you'd expect else? In Ukraine and intimate was / is a possability, probably a necessity but love is something for another trip. Belarus seems a long way to go if you intend to 'leggit'.  All that said, the coins over taxis concern me and you certainly pissed in your boots over the jacket thing - why would you even look at clothes with her and then say tomorrow? Obviously there is much I don't know about present circumstances but that reeks of someone who hasn't successfully dated in years. If this is the case, expect a few more poochscrewings before you find your form.

[Faux Pas]

Faux,
 I did bring a laptop and we did sit down and use the google translate. It worked pretty good.We also had a mini dictionary that we used.

 Its hard for me to explain exactly why I think its over, but its not like I have any plans tonight.

 Just mini red flags that tell me she is not serious and /or just thinks I am a dumb ass. Could be either.

IMHO, yellow flags at best. If she isn't making you feel warm and welcome 80% of the time. You probably should pull the plug. How is she physically? Other than holding your hand? Is there any degree of intimate physicality? Sounds like a sure deal she isn't spending the night. Have you asked her to?

 

First mini read flag. Profile says no children. 2nd e-mail she says she has daughter. I ask her about it and she does change profile. Mistakes happen...but how many people forget they have children?

Don't ever lay bets on what's in a profile. She may not have even did the profile you saw. It probably said she didn't smoke or drink and loved to cook tasty dishes?

 

Ok...so we continue on our messaging. I skype her and like her.

 2nd mini red flag. 2-3 hours late on first meeting. No big deal.

 So she arrives yesterday. All is good. Holding hands smiling. nice.

Why didn't you skype more often than you did? I believe you stated earlier you skyped twice?

 

We go to market. I do not understand about banks(my fault) so I have her exchange 100 to grivnas. We shop and pick out supplies for apartment. I have her pay...and the wine could not be purchased in that line. I carry both bags and she holds money. Later that night I ask about change(it was about 400grivnas) so she gives me receipt. So I have to go to laptop and say I go to market in morning. Oh..she says and gives me the money but she takes 25 for taxi. No big deal I give her an extra 25. Even though it was a small amount of money it just stuck me as odd that she would help herself.

C'mon. It's 100 bucks. You gave it to her to exchange. You let her pay at the store and you got supplies (and wine) for the flat. You really shouldn't be surprised she was holding on to it unless you specifically told her to give it back. Don't expect her to read your mind
 

 

Earlier that day I told her I was still going to buy her birthday present. I believe this was the kiss of death. She said "No problem. Later this week" Anyways we were walking around center square and she was showing me around and we end up in the mall. She said she needed to buy spring jacket. So we looked at and tried on white jackets wherever she could find one. She caught me off guard when she said "Buy this one" So I said" Tomorrow"

 I knew that I had screwed up.

You told her you were going to buy her a BD present. I don't know why this would offend you. Was it a $500 jacket? She probably thought that's what she was supposed to do. Lone, you have a communication problem and it is up to you to work out and discern what you can't communicate.

Mild yellow flags at best. Seems all she's done is what you asked her to do. BTW, the bank most likely isn't going to cheat you. The exchange rate is usually posted in the exchange both or bank when you enter. Do a google search on exchange rate tables and figure it out before you go. It won't be exactly what you see online but it's usually close. If you want exact, take a calculator and figure it out on the spot. You don't have to speak much. Slap the cash down and say "grivnas"

[Doll]

Is it another cultural thing in the Ukraine, anyone?

I think it is a personal thing.

[jone]

$1500 Round trip airfair
$300 Apartment fee
$200 Round trip taxi to Lugansk

Worried about a jacket or change for the store?  Priceless.

You're in the BIGS now.  To find out if the lady is in to you, you have to pay the entry fee.  OH, YOU PAID IT ALREADY AND ARE SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF?

You, my friend, are committed.  Don't worry about the small things.  Enjoy yourself and have an open wallet.  After all, you've already paid the entry fee.  Next thing you know you'll be telling her you will only buy Foldgers instead of the coffee she wants (because it's cheaper).

Hehehehe.

You may not know until you get back to Minnie Sota whether she is really in to you.  JUST .... HAVE .... FUN!

Good luck.

[Faux Pas]

Lone,
One other thing I feel compelled to mention. You are boots on the ground, face to face. This is boy meets girl time. Forget ideas about FSUW. What "they" do or don't do. She's not a manufactured replica of something you've seen online. She's a real woman and she's hoping for you to romance her. Yes, even if you don't know her very well, she is expecting some romance. It's up to you to provide it. That is, unless you don't want to.

Nothing you've stated indicates this lady is a gamer. She is well aware of how much a $100 bucks is and the fact she didn't give you change means dic. Remember, don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff

[jone]

Lone,
One other thing I feel compelled to mention. You are boots on the ground, face to face. This is boy meets girl time. Forget ideas about FSUW. What "they" do or don't do. She's not a manufactured replica of something you've seen online. She's a real woman and she's hoping for you to romance her. Yes, even if you don't know her very well, she is expecting some romance. It's up to you to provide it. That is, unless you don't want to.

Nothing you've stated indicates this lady is a gamer. She is well aware of how much a $100 bucks is and the fact she didn't give you change means dic. Remember, don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff

+1000

If you show her romance, you will be surprised how fast the walls come down.

[JayH]

LD-- generally you have done well. Thread has some very sensible comments and I am most impressed with many comments here.
In particular the posts preceding mine   #65, #66,#67,#68,#69,#70,--- are offering some great insight that I agree with totally--in there somewhere  are some answers for you.

[Doll]

Guys, I don't blame Lone. Not sure how)))), but I knew these things while dating my (present) husband. I tried to be very careful with the money he gave me to pay for anything, always gave him the change and NEVER asked him to go shopping and buy me anything.
 
Do you think I didn't need money? I did. Also I love(d) shopping)))).
My life experience didn't let me "keep the change" or ask for something. No way - Americans are Americans 
 
Like I said, I had everything ( and MORE)))) after we got married))
 Experience is everything, kids!

[pokerintherear]

I would be very hesitant to dismiss the flags you mentioned because of the justifications you are receiving from the replies. It seems they are in pedestal construction mode tonight. What you feel in your gut is correct. Do not 2nd guess it. If I had a date ask me to purchase a high ticket item after a couple of short meetings I would walk away. This will only get worse with time. Respectable women don't do this. On the food money. I cannot imagine this either. Can you say entitlement attitude.

 

[I/O]

PITR: I doubt anyone is trying to canonise the lady in question, just encouraging our hero to examine all sides.