Just friends ??

[JamesDH]

Last year I went over to meet a girl. She was 32 and I was 53 at the time. I really liked her and she really liked me but common sense kicked in, she was too young for serious relationship, I had to break up with her. It hurt and it still hurts. I REALLY liked her.
Anyway.. After some months of cooling down and getting over her I am back in the scene. I find a nice lady in my age range in Kiev and we've been exchanging letters for about 6 weeks. As you know on certain sites you get letters every day looking to start up something. I typically reply that I am taken. Some ask if we can be friends. One in particular asked if we could be friends and I agreed. We've been writing for about two weeks. Turns out we communicate more than the lady I originally started writing. she is much more interesting and we seem to "click". We have emailed, chatted and been in skype together. All was good until a few days ago. Now I start to think about her constantly. When we chat in skype, time flies, we talk about anything and everything. We are very similar in our thoughts and neither of us needs to complete a sentence to know what the other is thinking. We laugh and joke and tease each other and have a great time.

She makes me nervous and I can't think clearly.
I am not reading the signs and need help.

Can Ukraine girls "just be friends"?
How to know if I can make the next step?
What to say to keep from looking like an idiot?

Some things that I think are signs.
Each letter she always mentions that she has a dream to find a loving man.
She always says how much she enjoyed our chat or video.
She writes each day and usually a nice long letter.
She sends me photos of herself and/or her daughter in almost every letter.

What do you think??

Ideas??

James

[Belvis]

Can Ukraine girls "just be friends"?

I'm not going to say that being just friends  with a woman is impossible. I've seen this plot in movies, may be similar relationships exist 

[cc3]

Last year I went over to meet a girl. She was 32 and I was 53 at the time. I really liked her and she really liked me but common sense kicked in, she was too young for serious relationship, I had to break up with her. It hurt and it still hurts. I REALLY liked her.

Was there anything else besides the age difference (not so great with an FSUW if you are in good mental and physical health) which led to the breakup?  I believe a 32 YO FSUW is more ready for a serious relationship than an AW of any age!

[ECOCKS]

IMO, from our side yes. Individual FSUW, certainly. Will your significant other be able to tolerate it? Maybe not. I have some FSUW "friends" and quite a few acquaintances, single and married, without any complications except the occasional arched eyebrow.


I have noticed the FSUM seem even more likely to expect that this is questionable than the women.

[JamesDH]

Was there anything else besides the age difference (not so great with an FSUW if you are in good mental and physical health) which led to the breakup?  I believe a 32 YO FSUW is more ready for a serious relationship than an AW of any age!

I just couldn't see myself after 10 years and she finds a younger man. I would be 64 and she would be 42. Right in the prime of her sexual life while would be in the decline of mine.
Especially after the way she behaved. When we were having a romantic dinner she could not keep her eyes off of some guy at the bar. He wasn't anything special but she would turn 90 degrees to watch him. Very obvious. Gave me the impression that she would not be so faithful.

[cc3]

I just couldn't see myself after 10 years and she finds a younger man. I would be 64 and she would be 42. Right in the prime of her sexual life while would be in the decline of mine.
Especially after the way she behaved. When we were having a romantic dinner she could not keep her eyes off of some guy at the bar. He wasn't anything special but she would turn 90 degrees to watch him. Very obvious. Gave me the impression that she would not be so faithful.

That behavior of hers at dinner is much more convincing than the age difference as a negating factor for a permanent relationship. BTW, I am in my 60's, run, cycle and strength train; my fiancee and I have a greater than 20 year age difference; if you have the right, appealing, caringly passionate woman, your libido and performance will not fail you. I feel far more turned-on now than when I was married to horrible women when I was 25 years younger. 

[JamesDH]

Let me clarify.
I want to take it to the next level. I want to be more than friends but I don't want to come out and say it.
How to do that?

Probably just relax, stop trying and let nature take it's course.
On the other hand.. how to romance a FSUW without openly romancing her?

[JamesDH]

That behavior of hers at dinner is much more convincing than the age difference as a negating factor for a permanent relationship. BTW, I am in my 60's, run, cycle and strength train; my fiancee and I have a greater than 20 year age difference; if you have the right, appealing, caringly passionate woman, your libido and performance will not fail you. I feel far more turned-on now than when I was married to horrible women when I was 25 years younger. 

CC3, I had some problems in the libido area with her. I tried some natural supplements that worked but were not a permanent solution.
Finally I went to a clinic for older men and got hooked up with a nutritionist who is from Odessa!! We had a great conversation talking about Odessa. She laid me out a new diet and exercise program and I feel like a teenager now. Full libido, great endurance, high energy. She kept telling me "You need a Ukraine woman".
Have to follow doctors orders

[cc3]

Let me clarify.
I want to take it to the next level. I want to be more than friends but I don't want to come out and say it.
How to do that?

Probably just relax, stop trying and let nature take it's course.
On the other hand.. how to romance a FSUW without openly romancing her?

Open lines of communication. Get to know each other. The approach to romance will come naturally.

[cc3]

CC3, I had some problems in the libido area with her. I tried some natural supplements that worked but were not a permanent solution.
Finally I went to a clinic for older men and got hooked up with a nutritionist who is from Odessa!! We had a great conversation talking about Odessa. She laid me out a new diet and exercise program and I feel like a teenager now. Full libido, great endurance, high energy. She kept telling me "You need a Ukraine woman".
Have to follow doctors orders

+1000!!!

[Belvis]

I want to take it to the next level. I want to be more than friends but I don't want to come out and say it.
How to do that?

On the other hand.. how to romance a FSUW without openly romancing her?

You've already done that  I mean your communication is beyond just friendly chat, so no need to say it aloud. It should be pretty obvious for her, I think. If you want to romance, tell her what you said here:

Now I start to think about her constantly. When we chat in skype, time flies, we talk about anything and everything. We are very similar in our thoughts and neither of us needs to complete a sentence to know what the other is thinking.

[Patagonie]

Last year I went over to meet a girl. She was 32 and I was 53 at the time. I really liked her and she really liked me but common sense kicked in, she was too young for serious relationship, I had to break up with her. It hurt and it still hurts. I REALLY liked her.
Anyway.. After some months of cooling down and getting over her I am back in the scene. I find a nice lady in my age range in Kiev and we've been exchanging letters for about 6 weeks. As you know on certain sites you get letters every day looking to start up something. I typically reply that I am taken. Some ask if we can be friends. One in particular asked if we could be friends and I agreed. We've been writing for about two weeks. Turns out we communicate more than the lady I originally started writing. she is much more interesting and we seem to "click". We have emailed, chatted and been in skype together. All was good until a few days ago. Now I start to think about her constantly. When we chat in skype, time flies, we talk about anything and everything. We are very similar in our thoughts and neither of us needs to complete a sentence to know what the other is thinking. We laugh and joke and tease each other and have a great time.

She makes me nervous and I can't think clearly.
I am not reading the signs and need help.

Can Ukraine girls "just be friends"?
How to know if I can make the next step?
What to say to keep from looking like an idiot?

Some things that I think are signs.
Each letter she always mentions that she has a dream to find a loving man.
She always says how much she enjoyed our chat or video.
She writes each day and usually a nice long letter.
She sends me photos of herself and/or her daughter in almost every letter.

What do you think??

Ideas??

James

James good to know that you are alive.
Go with the flow.
If your profile mentions "engaged" delete it.
You have a lot of times, tell to this woman, for whom you have chemistry. 'You know what ? i can make a stop in Kiev the XX th february between two business trips for two days. It would be funny to meet and enjoy our time, i would like to visit the XXXX museum, go to the YYYYYYYYYY restaurant". Finish your mail by "are you free this week end ?"

She is not stupid, she will understand that is time for romance.
Forget your culpability James.

[BBC]

You've already done that  I mean your communication is beyond just friendly chat, so no need to say it aloud. It should be pretty obvious for her, I think. If you want to romance, tell her what you said here:
"Now I start to think about her constantly. When we chat in skype, time flies, we talk about anything and everything. We are very similar in our thoughts and neither of us needs to complete a sentence to know what the other is thinking."

+1
Be open with her, she is clearly encouraging you for this. And, don't forget to be open and clear with another lady who you started to write originally  . 

[JamesDH]

She just came on IM.
My palms are sweating and my heart is racing.
She makes me nervous.
Off to flirt with her

[BBC]

She just came on IM.
My palms are sweating and my heart is racing.
She makes me nervous.
Off to flirt with her

  Just copy and send her this quote (except for the last line, perhaps) - oh boy, she will like it!!!!!!!!!

[Patagonie]

+1
Be open with her, she is clearly encouraging you for this. And, don't forget to be open and clear with another lady who you started to write originally  .

I would not encourage this.
There are all just still penpals. Perhaps the lady he had first started to write is more emotionaly engaged to an other man.In three months, perhaps she will understand that her target  never visits her, so she changes her mind and focuses on James, you never know. During this  three months James would have met in Kiev and realize that lady 2  is a drunker. In three months you don't know, perhaps James will restart a passionate correspondance with the initial lady, and perhaps they will get married before the end of the year, you never know.
So it is clear that i will continue to write or not to write, but surely not tell to the 1st "i am going to visit an other lady, i needed to tell you because my level of  culpability is so high that my shrink advices me to tell you."

Culpability during pen pal writing is the most irrelevant activity, as a shoe on a wood leg.

[JamesDH]

I don't want her to think I am jumping from woman to woman and I don't want to jump from woman to woman.
But I want to jump to her. The more we talk the deeper I get.
30 minutes of chat and I can hardly sit. She knows.
She is playing right along and says the perfect things.

[BBC]

I would not encourage this.
There are all just still penpals. Perhaps the lady he had first started to write is more emotionaly engaged to an other man.In three months, perhaps she will understand that her target  never visits her, so she changes her mind and focuses on James, you never know. During this  three months James would have met in Kiev and realize that lady 2  is a drunker. In three months you don't know, perhaps James will restart a passionate correspondance with the initial lady, and perhaps they will get married before the end of the year, you never know.
So it is clear that i will continue to write or not to write, but surely not tell to the 1st "i am going to visit an other lady, i needed to tell you because my level of  culpability is so high that my shrink advices me to tell you."

Culpability during pen pal writing is the most irrelevant activity, as a shoe on a wood leg.

You may be right, but remember that the lady to whom James currently wants to jump so badly is very well aware that she is not #1 - she is just a friend as per her initiative.
As I see the situation, if their communication continues in the same direction as it's currently progressing and finally turns into smth more than friendship, sooner or later the question about lady #1 will come up between them. If so, what choices will James have? 1) to end up contacts with lady#1 and tell about it to the friend-lady, or 2) continue contacts with lady # 1 and lie to the friend-lady that she is the only one for him. However, it's also possible that the friend lady is very tolerant and understanding and she will never raise the question about lady #1 considering that she was the one who "crossed the road", as we say in Russian.

James, I didn't assume the immediate action, you need time to understand what you want. With all respect that you don't want to seem as jumping from one woman to another, you also don't seem as being TMTM ("talk many visit many" - not sure if I remember correctly this terminology), you should consider not only your own preferences at the moment, but the feelings of both women and return the respect.

[Faux Pas]

IMHO, the short answer to your question is NO, she's not there to be your friend. She has some higher aspirations on a romantic or other level but, it isn't friendship. I suspect she has as many friends as she wants/needs.

She's waiting on you to pull the trigger because you've already put a wall in front of her. The move will have to be yours. Grow yourself a pair and do it. Or else turn in your man card 

[ghost of moon goddess]

Let me clarify.
I want to take it to the next level. I want to be more than friends but I don't want to come out and say it.
How to do that?

Probably just relax, stop trying and let nature take it's course.
On the other hand.. how to romance a FSUW without openly romancing her?

Once things turn serious, it's time to come out with your hands up and admit "guilt" 
Fear not, James,  loose lips don't always sink ships. After all, didn't you know that having a serious relationship talk with a woman can be the first step of actually having a serious relationship with her?!
Good luck!

[BillyB]

Can Ukraine girls "just be friends"?
How to know if I can make the next step?
What to say to keep from looking like an idiot?

Some things that I think are signs.
Each letter she always mentions that she has a dream to find a loving man.
She always says how much she enjoyed our chat or video.
She writes each day and usually a nice long letter.
She sends me photos of herself and/or her daughter in almost every letter.

What do you think??

Ideas??

 
You would not receive so much attention if she just wanted to be friends. Do you think it's normal she sends her family photos nearly everyday to other friends? At this time, you're her favorite.
 
 

How to know if I can make the next step?

 
If you want her and want to learn she's ready for a serious relationship, ask her some questions. You already know she wants a loving man. Ask her what she thinks a man and woman's role in a relationship are. Ask her what kind of role she wants a man to play as a father to her daughter. Do not tell her your answers to your questions first. If her answers are to your liking, proceed. If not, move on.
 
 
Before deciding a visit to her be honest with if you can or can't father more children, any medical conditions, libido problems you have. Some guys come to the forum saying they wasted months or over a year with a women for something they or the lady failed to disclose that's a deal breaker. Better talk about any potential dealbreaking issues now before wasting time and a trip. Everyday you spend with the wrong women is a day lost with the right woman.

[newjason]

Hey James.
Any chance that you are paying for these letters and or chats?

In any event, stop worrying about how things seem to other people.

Next,  Don't Talk about Romantic plans, or make romantic plans before you physically meet her in person.

You are already painting a fantasy of her in your head,
given the fact  that you are constanly thinking about her.
Just Chill for now.

Have fun and Don't make notions in your head about how great or not great someone is before you meet in person.

That way  when you DO meet in person, you can avoid awkward conversations that include things like:
ahh I thought you would be taller ...
or
Gee I thought you would be clean shaven ...
or
My, that's am awfully large penis you have there...

[JamesDH]

Thanks!!!

A lot of good information and advice.
It gave me the confidence boost I needed to play my cards right.
During our almost 2 hour chat session in Skype I guided the conversation to tell her how I feel.
I let her know that I think about her all the time and I wish she was here with me. She let me know that she thinks about me all the time and she wishes she was here with me.

Her letter today confirms it. She understands where we are. During our next chat I will tell her straight out so there is no question.
With your help I was able to convey my desires to her without blurting out some ridiculous nonsense. Thanks!

Now to proceed with the romancing

I noticed something yesterday that you guys may know about.
I actually noticed it first when I went to Egypt with a girl.

What happened is:
We are in a conversation and somehow it takes on a sort of mesmerizing quick firing off of short sentences.
It's like we get into a zone with these fast, short sentences that convey all our thoughts.
In Egypt we were riding in the bus and did it. We were in a zone, not looking at each other but rattling out these short sentences.
There was no body language, no eye contact, all words were in an even tone but we were in a zone as if no one was there but us two.
It lasted a few minutes and then we were back to normal conversations, eye contact etc..
The information flow is much higher than the word count. I enjoyed it.

Anyway. I felt it again yesterday with this woman. We were rattling off short sentences in quick succession and the information flow was higher than the word count. It was very enjoyable.


James

[noelscot]

Last year I went over to meet a girl. She was 32 and I was 53 at the time. I really liked her and she really liked me but common sense kicked in, she was too young for serious relationship, I had to break up with her. It hurt and it still hurts. I REALLY liked her.
Anyway.. After some months of cooling down and getting over her I am back in the scene. I find a nice lady in my age range in Kiev and we've been exchanging letters for about 6 weeks. As you know on certain sites you get letters every day looking to start up something. I typically reply that I am taken. Some ask if we can be friends. One in particular asked if we could be friends and I agreed. We've been writing for about two weeks. Turns out we communicate more than the lady I originally started writing. she is much more interesting and we seem to "click". We have emailed, chatted and been in skype together. All was good until a few days ago. Now I start to think about her constantly. When we chat in skype, time flies, we talk about anything and everything. We are very similar in our thoughts and neither of us needs to complete a sentence to know what the other is thinking. We laugh and joke and tease each other and have a great time.

She makes me nervous and I can't think clearly.
I am not reading the signs and need help.

Can Ukraine girls "just be friends"?
How to know if I can make the next step?
What to say to keep from looking like an idiot?

Some things that I think are signs.
Each letter she always mentions that she has a dream to find a loving man.
She always says how much she enjoyed our chat or video.
She writes each day and usually a nice long letter.
She sends me photos of herself and/or her daughter in almost every letter.

What do you think??

Ideas??

James

Dude, you are making this SO complicated. First of all, a friend is someone who will take a bullet for you. How many friends do you have?


If you like her, then go visit her. Treat her like a Lady and be a gentleman. It's not rocket science. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If a woman is "friends" with a man, it means she put your penis in a glass case, and in an emergency, she'll break the glass. You never want to be plan B.


I don't care what B.S. someone tries to tell you, a man and woman can only be "friends" in the rarest of circumstances. Unless a man is queer, he has two things on his mind: sex and food (roughly in that order).


I wouldn't worry about age gaps too much. The hand-wringers on here will do that for you, run you down like a dog, and scrutinize every aspect of your life if you let them. Find your soulmate and enjoy the rest of your life.


You don't need any external justification. "Follow your bliss," as Joseph Campbell said.

[Gator]

James,
 
Good to see you again.  You seem to be doing well. 
 
Regarding friends, I believe this is very important in developing an enduring, loving and happy relationship. However, I am not sure that this is what your woman intended. 
 
All I suggest is for the two of you to spend time together and have fun.  With time, all will be understood.   I have many friends with whom I have fun.  I do not have many friends with whom I can confide my most personal thoughts.   The latter friends are special.