Interesting interview with Ukrainian wife in US

[Brillynt]

Amen to that.  It reminds me of a remark often attributed to former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger:

"Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."

Just substitute the word forum for the word academic.

+1000

[Ade]

Why suspect Galina?  Instead, why not select something substantive she wrote (or said) and challenge that?   

So you missed the substantive part of her posts that claimed she participated in conning MOB seekers like yourself and did so without any recognition that what she did was wrong?

[TomT]

So you missed the substantive part of her posts that claimed she participated in conning MOB seekers like yourself and did so without any recognition that what she did was wrong?

By local standards, she wasn't doing anything wrong.

[jone]

So you missed the substantive part of her posts that claimed she participated in conning MOB seekers like yourself and did so without any recognition that what she did was wrong?

(sigh!) People, this is exactly what I was referring to.  You, sir, are so intent on proving what a smart guy you are that you offend someone who is offering valuable information.  Her participation in a scam was tacit at best.  But you have to hold her feet to the fire so you can feel superior and tell everyone how right you are.  Just for once, can't you sit down and say how wonderful it is that you met your husband?  Can't you say that you are happy for her in spite of the con going on around her that she acknowledges?  Can't you welcome her and draw out her thinking with a finesse? 

She NEVER claimed that she directly or intentionally conned MOB seekers.  Where in her posts does it say; "I conned my future husband?"  Instead, I read that she said she was a reluctant participant in even meeting with him,  because she had no direct intentions.  I also read that she discovered that there had been deceit.  Discovering something and actually doing something is slightly different.

We all characterize PPL sites as organizations that produce terrible business ethics.  Lies, deception, fraud.  Everyone here does.  There is no argument.  But you are so intent on putting shackles and chains on this woman that you can't possibly listen to what she might have to say that could assist this forum in the future.  And, for your ongoing edification, I am sure now that she won't say it, thanks, in part, to you.

Now, you'll sit there and argue and tell everyone how right you are and further castigate this woman. As far as participants on this forum, if it came down to this gracious lady and the guy calling her a con, I'd choose the lady.

But then I can be charmed and that is absolutely one thing that is missing from your posts.

[lordtiberius]

(sigh!) People, this is exactly what I was referring to.  You, sir, are so intent on proving what a smart guy you are that you offend someone who is offering valuable information.  Her participation in a scam was tacit at best.  But you have to hold her feet to the fire so you can feel superior and tell everyone how right you are.  Just for once, can't you sit down and say how wonderful it is that you met your husband?  Can't you say that you are happy for her in spite of the con going on around her that she acknowledges?  Can't you welcome her and draw out her thinking with a finesse? 

She NEVER claimed that she directly or intentionally conned MOB seekers.  Where in her posts does it say; "I conned my future husband?"  Instead, I read that she said she was a reluctant participant in even meeting with him,  because she had no direct intentions.  I also read that she discovered that there had been deceit.  Discovering something and actually doing something is slightly different.

We all characterize PPL sites as organizations that produce terrible business ethics.  Lies, deception, fraud.  Everyone here does.  There is no argument.  But you are so intent on putting shackles and chains on this woman that you can't possibly listen to what she might have to say that could assist this forum in the future.  And, for your ongoing edification, I am sure now that she won't say it, thanks, in part, to you.

Now, you'll sit there and argue and tell everyone how right you are and further castigate this woman. As far as participants on this forum, if it came down to this gracious lady and the guy calling her a con, I'd choose the lady.

But then I can be charmed and that is absolutely one thing that is missing from your posts.

    

[Gator]

So you missed the substantive part of her posts that claimed she participated in conning MOB seekers like yourself and did so without any recognition that what she did was wrong?

Did not miss it, just  did not think it significant.  In other words, the charge is petty. 
 
I listened to 10 minutes of the chat.  I doubt you gave it any more than did GQ.  In the 10 minutes I heard nothing that made me flinch.  It was boring stuff to an old timer such as me, yet nothing that would mislead a newbie.
 
 
"...conning MOB seekers like yourself...."    Nice try.  You should know that was not the case, even 11 years ago.

[JayH]

That been said, you can say whatever you want, just don't be so negative about people. Name calling is a sign of low moral intelligence. I also believe that your frustrations reflect your own fears.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you stay around and keep posting.Do not be deterred by some of the negative posts--there is still plenty of people here who are interested -very interested to hear your perspective.

Your words above are to the point !! 

[lordtiberius]

I read the accusations against our newest member.  I also went to her blog and am following her on twitter and I even posted a video she tweeted to my social sites on fb.  I even asked her some advice she had on integrating into Western life - especially life in the American South.  So I don't put much stock in the docket against our newest member put forth by the few.  I am new here so forgive me. 

[naigalina]

Thank you Jimbo for your very interesting questions! I will post some information on them in the next few days. Work is taking a lot of time now.

[naigalina]

To some of the participants of this thread:

I am not here to listen to your false accusations! You are talking about me like you know me. You just read few lines and made ridiculous conclusions. Please quote specific lines where it showed that I was a scammer! I will be happy to answer specific questions.

And please remember this, if you only want to trash me for no good reason, and if you don't have any proof of your accusations, please save your and my time! I'm a busy person and don't have any wish to be pulled into unnecessary, useless conversations!

I never in my life earned money through foul actions. I was never involved in any agency's scam operations! I happened to be a client, and happened to learn how the system works. I was offered to be a translator for 2 unrelated "marriage agencies", where I had to write letters and do chat. Guess what, I REFUSED both times! I know my truth! But if you wish to think otherwise- totally up to you!

Those who are genuinely interested:

I originally registered here to help you understand more about the whole MOB business, to share my insight on international marriage and all the possible issues within, on Ukrainian women, etc.
Feel free to write to me directly on this forum and I will be happy to answer all of your questions.

Sincerely
Galyna

[jazztropy]

I found a comment on the 'net that Russian Women Discussion board is "toxic".  Given the direction the thread has taken, how far is this from the truth?  Rhetorical, no need to answer. 



Thanks, naigalina, for posting here.  I appreciate the enlightenment.

[lordtiberius]

If the lady will yield to me the honor of championing her cause, will her accusers prove how she financially damaged anyone?  Further how has she financially profited? 

[jone]

Cool.



Let's get down to business:

About the marriage agency:

1.  The agency that your acquaintance was working for - was it a collector for a bigger website, or was it a stand-alone?  Was she running the office or was she a worker on commission soliciting girls to put their names up?  Was this local agency affiliated with other local agencies?

2.  Once you met your husband, and you were happy with him and dating him, did the agency release your profile or did they run it without your participation?

3.  This was six, seven years ago?  Do you know if they are still in business?

4.  Did your acquaintance ever tell you what kind of money she made?

5.  Did you know any of the other women that had profiles up and what happened to them?

6.  Once you met your husband was there any activity by the agency to discourage your relationship so that he would continue looking for other women?

And lastly, do we know the name of the network that your husband found you on?

Sorry for the quick barrage but I wanted to get some questions in before being trampled by the rest of the crowd.

It is really great having someone on here that comes from a PPL site.  While you are somewhat far removed from it, I am not. 

What I have never told anyone, until now, and not even knowing that this forum existed when I was looking, I also found my gal on a PPL site.  Each gal that I communicated with showed up for the date and each one was coached by a translator who actually ran the meeting.  I never shared that I knew a smattering of Russian and could follow the conversation.  As stated in previous threads, I know that I was certainly with one woman who was a pro-dater. 

And I will also say that the gal that I wound up with was not the one I would have expected and that she was very prickly when we first met.  That is a story for another day. 

Galyna, I am very happy you are here.  And I know I speak for many other members of this forum.

Truly, welcome!

-j

[Ade]

(sigh!) People, this is exactly what I was referring to.  You, sir, are so intent on proving what a smart guy you are that you offend someone who is offering valuable information.  Her participation in a scam was tacit at best.  But you have to hold her feet to the fire so you can feel superior and tell everyone how right you are.  Just for once, can't you sit down and say how wonderful it is that you met your husband?  Can't you say that you are happy for her in spite of the con going on around her that she acknowledges?  Can't you welcome her and draw out her thinking with a finesse? 

She NEVER claimed that she directly or intentionally conned MOB seekers.  Where in her posts does it say; "I conned my future husband?"  Instead, I read that she said she was a reluctant participant in even meeting with him,  because she had no direct intentions.  I also read that she discovered that there had been deceit.  Discovering something and actually doing something is slightly different.

We all characterize PPL sites as organizations that produce terrible business ethics.  Lies, deception, fraud.  Everyone here does.  There is no argument.  But you are so intent on putting shackles and chains on this woman that you can't possibly listen to what she might have to say that could assist this forum in the future.  And, for your ongoing edification, I am sure now that she won't say it, thanks, in part, to you.

Now, you'll sit there and argue and tell everyone how right you are and further castigate this woman. As far as participants on this forum, if it came down to this gracious lady and the guy calling her a con, I'd choose the lady.

But then I can be charmed and that is absolutely one thing that is missing from your posts.

So I was right, you are an apologist.

Look, as Tom so succinctly states, many people in the FSU wouldn't think she did anything wrong, and that's understandable given the culture of corruption over there. However, once a person has migrated away to the west where values are less mercenary I'd at least expect an acknowledgement from them that what they did was essentially wrong.

As I've said before, there are people that buck the FSU trend but there are many that don't. Some men seem to want to ignore that in their deluded state of wife-hunting.

[anm8tr]

I was never involved in any agency's scam operations! I happened to be a client, and happened to learn how the system works. I was offered to be a translator for 2 unrelated "marriage agencies", where I had to write letters and do chat. Guess what, I REFUSED both times!

The girl I am currently involved with in Vinnitsa was also asked to do the same as you with the agency she was with. She told me all the details. She is very attractive and speaks fluent English so after her and I met, she asked to be removed from the site and that was when they offered her extra money to stay on chatting, writing letters and just attracting customers to the site.


When her agency found out that I was coming to see her, they asked her to use their translator just to suck money out of me. One  reason I wrote her in the first place was because I never saw her online. I was attracted to her from the start and just happened to be online when she logged in one day.  So we had a good chat and it wasn't more than a few weeks that she agreed to give me her phone and email address. It was after that, that she mentioned the agency wanting to make money off of me, They literally said to her, "What about us?"  We want to make money too!


For all I know it might have been her intention on making money in the first place and then met me. Not that I am any consolation.


The idea of men traveling to the Ukraine or any country once or twice and then proposing marriage is a recipe for disaster!

[naigalina]

Cool.



Let's get down to business:

About the marriage agency:

1.  The agency that your acquaintance was working for - was it a collector for a bigger website, or was it a stand-alone?  Was she running the office or was she a worker on commission soliciting girls to put their names up?  Was this local agency affiliated with other local agencies? collector for a bigger website

2.  Once you met your husband, and you were happy with him and dating him, did the agency release your profile or did they run it without your participation? I believe that they still used my profile to write letters even after I met my husband. I asked  to remove my profile from the website. Once I started a relationship with him, I didn't see any reason to be on the website any more. Though, they didn't delete my profile right away. I called her several times for the next 6 months insisting that they deleted me from the system. She said, that the main office would fine them if my profile was removed that fast. I kept calling and insisting on removal. She finally took me of their site, as she said. I can only assume if my profile was used without my knowledge or not.

3.  This was six, seven years ago?  Do you know if they are still in business? No, they closed their office about a year later. But their main office in Kyiv is still operating, I think.

4.  Did your acquaintance ever tell you what kind of money she made? No, never

5.  Did you know any of the other women that had profiles up and what happened to them?Not at that agency

6.  Once you met your husband was there any activity by the agency to discourage your relationship so that he would continue looking for other women?No

And lastly, do we know the name of the network that your husband found you on? You know the name of the main agency. It is one of the two most powerful on the market. I am not saying the name here because both of them run equally in my opinion.

Sorry for the quick barrage but I wanted to get some questions in before being trampled by the rest of the crowd.

It is really great having someone on here that comes from a PPL site.  While you are somewhat far removed from it, I am not. 

What I have never told anyone, until now, and not even knowing that this forum existed when I was looking, I also found my gal on a PPL site.  Each gal that I communicated with showed up for the date and each one was coached by a translator who actually ran the meeting.  I never shared that I knew a smattering of Russian and could follow the conversation.  As stated in previous threads, I know that I was certainly with one woman who was a pro-dater. 

And I will also say that the gal that I wound up with was not the one I would have expected and that she was very prickly when we first met.  That is a story for another day. 

Galyna, I am very happy you are here.  And I know I speak for many other members of this forum.

Truly, welcome!

-j

[naigalina]

So I was right, you are an apologist.

Look, as Tom so succinctly states, many people in the FSU wouldn't think she did anything wrong, and that's understandable given the culture of corruption over there. However, once a person has migrated away to the west where values are less mercenary I'd at least expect an acknowledgement from them that what they did was essentially wrong.

As I've said before, there are people that buck the FSU trend but there are many that don't. Some men seem to want to ignore that in their deluded state of wife-hunting.

Once again, you are running to conclusions before getting all the facts.

[ML]

 For all the apologists and PWed men here.

I made no accusations againt Galina:

I posted the words that she herself wrote, as shown below.

Now some of the apologists and PW men are saying it was all minor, she made no profit from it, yada, yada, yada.

OK, so let's try another angle to see just how far the apologists and PW men will go.

Person A gives a gun (without payment) to person B knowing that person B intends to kill someone.  Is person A guilty of anything?

Person A knowingly lets person B use his/her house for the purpose of selling drugs and receives no payment.  Is person A guilty of anything?

Person A agrees to drive his/her car to a bank and wait while others go in and rob the bank and does not share in the proceeds.  Is person A guilty  of anything.

Now don't give the knee jerk response that what Galina did was nothing as serious as these examples.  I am merely giving some scenarios that show the same (almost) passive participation.

From her own words, Galina knowingly participated passively in a scam operation.  It is not relevant whether or not she received money for this.

= = = = = = = = =

Quotes from naigalina:

"So, when my former classmate asked me to create a profile (as part of her new inventory for her dating website), I first refused. I thought that all American men were as they say "fat, dumb, and happy", and there would be nothing for me- a well-educated girl- to talk to them about.
She kept asking me to help her with her new business in the area. She said that it wouldn't take any of my time (I worked 11 hrs/day for a FOREX broker company, and was quite busy), that she would respond to most letters for me."

"About the agency writing:  I ended up writing 90% of the letters. But later I did discover that they were tweaked by the agency. Where I said that I didn't have time for a meeting or a vacation, they put "oh, I would be happy to see you soon in my city."

= = = = = =  ==

Hi Galyna:

You mentioned somewhere that a classmate of yours talked you into posting a profile to help her business get started.  And you mentioned that she or someone on her staff replied to the letters that men sent to your profile.

And you further note that the agency changed some of the letters that you wrote yourself.

Questions:

Can you explain why you participated in a scam of men who thought they were actually receiving replies from you, when in fact they were not?

Are you now still on speaking  terms with these people who were (and probably still are) running a scam operation?  i.e. Communicating with men under false pretenses with money involved.

And if yes; how do you justify this to yourself?

And what does your husband think of your being at least a silent partner in the scamming operations where you agreed to let others write and send letters to men when those men thought the letters were from you

And what does your husband think about your acquaintances still running a scam operation?

Don't just focus the situation that developed between you and your husband; I am addressing the larger situation your acquaintances are involved in that you agreed to participate in for at least awhile.

[anm8tr]

I believe that they still used my profile to write letters even after I met William. I asked  to remove my profile from the website. Once I started a relationship with William, I didn't see any reason to be on the website any more. Though, they didn't delete my profile right away. I called her several times for the next 6 months insisting that they deleted me from the system. She said, that the main office would fine them if my profile was removed that fast. I kept calling and insisting on removal. She finally took me of their site, as she said. I can only assume if my profile was used without my knowledge or not.

Same thing happened to my friend! They put her profile back up after awhile and I was a little more than shocked, but she told me it happened a lot. In fact I just found her photo's recently on another woman's profile last month. They were older photo's of her mixed in with another  blonde girls photos. I emailed the company and they promptly removed them. I didn't even tell her that I found them.  I have almost her entire portfolio of photos, so it wasn't difficult to recognize them.

[TomT]

The focus on what Galina should or should not have done is actually insignificant. Men who are patient, persistent and clever can and do marry women of whom they are not worthy. In almost every case, the key will have been his economic advantage, not his social equity. The scam industry was just one of the effects of this cause.
The moral of this story is that you have to take the bad with the good.

[JayH]

Moderator edit.  Read this again please -

I politely requested civility or stay out of the thread.  Two warnings have been issued.  So, I'll politely say it again...


Keep the thread civil, or simply stay away from it... 

[naigalina]

To further eliminate extra, unnecessary questions about my experience with that agency, here is my full story of my experience:

In 2006, my former classmate opened a marriage agency in my city.
I had no idea what she was doing and how the agency helped people build relationships. I never dated any foreigner, nor I knew how MOB business worked in general.
I came to her office one day during my lunch break. She told me that she needed to invite more ladies to the agency; she said that most of her friends already registered. She asked me to create a profile. I didn't want to, because I had my own self-imposed paradigms and prejudices. And I also remember watching TV reports about American men abusing their Russian wives (you know how only bad news make news). I couldn't understand why they were looking for wives abroad. I thought that only those who had no success back home were seeking for young naive brides in Ukraine.  But she convinced me that there were some good men out there, and there would be no downside for me to possibly meet a potential partner online. I thought "why not, I'll try." She also said that if I didn't have time to answer some of the letters (due to 11 hr workdays), we would discuss it over the phone and then she would write for me. She kept pushing and I finally said 'yes'. I carefully and thoughtfully filled out my profile information. I also put desired age of a potential man 25-37. Like I said, even a 7 year age gap was already a huge stretch for me. But I decided to give it a try. I actually thought that if I met someone from Europe who would be closer to my age, I would give it a try. The thing is, I've been very close to my family and could never imagine living far away from them. So, Europe sounded more reasonable to me than the States, if I ever decided to move to some other country.

She also offered me a free photo-session. I didn't feel like advertising myself, therefore I didn't want to use any fancy photos. I later brought her few pictures, and she put my profile online. I became a client in May 2006.

I remember receiving letters from much older men (50-60). I thought that those men knew that I was not looking for anyone older than 37 or so. I really thought that they were writing to me despite the fact that I stated my age preference. And due to this fact, I really was thinking that they were not looking for a serious relationship.  Later, William told me that my profile stated my preferred age difference  up to 55! I had no idea that the agency changed some information on my profile! So, beware when you see that a 20 yr old girl is OK with the age of 50-60.

I received letters only from several men. I guess I was not that popular because I had regular photos, nothing fancy))) I never wrote a single letter that was romantic. I was telling them about my job, my city, life in Ukraine. I never received a romantic letter from them either)) I never actually received more than 2 letters from anybody. Like I said, I was on the site only for about three months, before I asked them to remove my profile.

All the correspondence was coming and going through my classmate. I never had any access to men's profiles. I never had a chance to choose. I never had any access to their site, nor I could check additional photos of those men who were writing to me.

Also, I remember once, I didn't have time to respond to one letter to a guy who was in fact 30 years older. I could not ignore his letter, even though he was not the kind of guy I was interested in. I still wanted to be polite. I called her and asked her to tell him about me, my city, etc.  [dot]That was the only instance of me not physically writing a letter.[/dot]

The agency never paid me, nor even offered any incentives. And I would never agree to earn money that way. And at that moment I had no idea about any scams in the industry! I didn't know how the agency was using unfair ways to earn money. William told me later about all of his experiences and about scams and scammers. He saw how I surprised I was. He even said: "Galyna, you live like in a bubble. And you have no idea what's going on outside your world." He was right, years ago I thought that everybody had only good intentions. Well I still tend to believe in people's best.

Anyway, she told me about William. She said that she actually met him in Kyiv when she worked there, she was his interpreter on some of his dates. She said he was a great guy and I should meet him. She thought that I would like him. Maybe that's why she tweaked my letter, and later arranged a meeting for us.

But I do know that a lot of agencies use "working girls"/"models" (that's how they call those women) to write letters, chat, etc. for money. I learned more over the years as I started doing my research about it.

I hope that answered some of your questions.

[ML]

Ah, now I see your strategy going forward.

I see you learned the tweaking tactic very well.

Changing just a bit your words here from your original words.

OK, you win.

I have no chance against a person whose words change over time; and certainly no chance against the PW men here who have already placed you on a very high pedestal.

[naigalina]

Ah, now I see your strategy going forward.

I see you learned the tweaking tactic very well.

Changing just a bit your words here from your original words.

OK, you win.

I have no chance against a person whose words change over time; and certainly no chance against the PW men here who have already placed you on a very high pedestal.

Up to you to think the way you do. I shared my story the way it is, with more details, but still trying to keep it short.
I can't help it if you don't get it.

[noelscot]

I have no chance against a person whose words change over time; and certainly no chance against the PW men here who have already placed you on a very high pedestal.

I don't really care about the veracity of naigalina, but in general, I would listen to a FSUM about FSUW more so than a FSUW. There is a sort of creepy matriarchy amongst some men here as you note, ML.