Interesting interview with Ukrainian wife in US

[lordtiberius]

Hey naigalina, do you mind loaning me a couple million dollars from all that you scammed WM, I have a rather large cocaine habit I need to attend to. 

[calmissile]

I don't really care about the veracity of naigalina, but in general, I would listen to a FSUM about FSUW more so than a FSUW. There is a sort of creepy matriarchy amongst some men here as you note, ML.

That should be good for a few thousand posts.......from the women!

[jone]

The agency never paid me, nor even offered any incentives. And I would never agree to earn money that way. And at that moment I had no idea about any scams in the industry! I didn't know how the agency was using unfair ways to earn money. William told me later about all of his experiences and about scams and scammers. He saw how I surprised I was. He even said: "Galyna, you live like in a bubble. And you have no idea what's going on outside your world." He was right, years ago I thought that everybody had only good intentions. Well I still tend to believe in people's best.

Ya know, I tend to believe the best in people as well.  Even when they're being, well, loutish!  Shall we stop asking her questions that are not respectful? 

I have met over twenty (now that I've met my gal's friends) who have participated in PPL sites.  I have begged them to come on here.  Facing what Galyna faced, I can see now why they demurred.  When I asked these women in a very tactful way what their thoughts were about having the agencies write letters to the men in their stead, the typical answer will amaze you. 

"That's what an agency is for, to get me dates to meet these men!  I can't spend all day answering their letters.  If they want to meet me, then, great."  The women did not consider that the agency was collecting money and scamming the men and setting expectations that they could not possibly meet.

It was an amoral answer, not an immoral answer.

These women are looking for men.  Of the fourteen or so women that I contacted through the PPL site, all but two of them wanted to meet.  And as soon as possible.  I was able to get email addresses from all but a few.  These were women who wanted a better life.  I am the greatest advocate for shutting down the current PPL setup.  It is wrong to let men think they are actually communicating with the women. 

But it is also wrong for you to cross over a double yellow line going down the road.  Do you have a great moral dilemma when doing so?  Neither do they.  It doesn't enter into their thinking. 

I am substantially younger than most of the men on this site.   My gal is just out of her twenties.  Can you remember back to that time frame, the dating, the lifestyle?  I can.  You just didn't think about these things.

Am I an apologist for the dating sites?  No.  They should be shut down.  But, absent another avenue to communicate with men, what alternatives do these gals have?  And don't say Ukraine Date or Bride.Ru.  These companies don't have enough money to get the message out. 

The PPL sites are self perpetuating because they have the resources to communicate to the men and to the women.  You can color it however you want, but the economics are driving the car.

As for the money I spent, the amount of money that went to the PPL site was, by far, the smallest item in my budget.  If I had it to do over again, I would have contracted someone like Eduard, because the thing that cost the most in this effort was my time.

[noelscot]

That should be good for a few thousand posts.......from the women!

Nope, they're much too clever and have men who will do it for them. 

[jone]

Nope, they're much too clever and have men who will do it for them. 

That"s Ms. Jone to you, Sonny!  And don't speak to your mother like that!

[JayH]

Ya know, I tend to believe the best in people as well.  Even when they're being, well, loutish!  Shall we stop asking her questions that are not respectful? 

I have met over twenty (now that I've met my gal's friends) who have participated in PPL sites.  I have begged them to come on here.  Facing what Galyna faced, I can see now why they demurred.  When I asked these women in a very tactful way what their thoughts were about having the agencies write letters to the men in their stead, the typical answer will amaze you. 

"That's what an agency is for, to get me dates to meet these men!  I can't spend all day answering their letters.  If they want to meet me, then, great."  The women did not consider that the agency was collecting money and scamming the men and setting expectations that they could not possibly meet.

It was an amoral answer, not an immoral answer.

These women are looking for men.  Of the fourteen or so women that I contacted through the PPL site, all but two of them wanted to meet.  And as soon as possible.  I was able to get email addresses from all but a few.  These were women who wanted a better life.  I am the greatest advocate for shutting down the current PPL setup.  It is wrong to let men think they are actually communicating with the women. 

But it is also wrong for you to cross over a double yellow line going down the road.  Do you have a great moral dilemma when doing so?  Neither do they.  It doesn't enter into their thinking. 

I am substantially younger than most of the men on this site.   My gal is just out of her twenties.  Can you remember back to that time frame, the dating, the lifestyle?  I can.  You just didn't think about these things.

Am I an apologist for the dating sites?  No.  They should be shut down.  But, absent another avenue to communicate with men, what alternatives do these gals have?  And don't say Ukraine Date or Bride.Ru.  These companies don't have enough money to get the message out. 

The PPL sites are self perpetuating because they have the resources to communicate to the men and to the women.  You can color it however you want, but the economics are driving the car.

As for the money I spent, the amount of money that went to the PPL site was, by far, the smallest item in my budget.  If I had it to do over again, I would have contracted someone like Eduard, because the thing that cost the most in this effort was my time.

Great post jone. Interestingly enough TomT commented upthread about the local view of the morality in general of the agencies behaviour--or more accurately of the girls attitudes.I concur with that .
It is not how we see it from a western perspective,but we are not living in the circumstances how this evolved.In essence it is rationalised on the basis that no one is forcing the guys to spend their money.It has a degree of logic-- but is not matched by western ideas of the morality of it.

[Patagonie]

Let me get an inventory here of what Galyna has been writing.

1. She put her profile up as service to a friend, who told her that she did not have to bother writing her own letters.
2. While she now claims to have been writing 90% of all communication, at the same time she tells her letters were changed.
3. Initially she did not wish to meet her husband, even though the agency seemed to have arranged a meeting
4. She agreed to do translation work for him, through which they came in to closer contact
5. From her description she did not marry him for his appeareance, but he had other redeeming qualitie$

Her husband got lucky with the translator so it seems. 

Now after reading this, I think that Anastasiadate could do a good job for a lot of men. After all, this surely seems their method of operating.

i admit that you have raised some legitim questions.

[calmissile]

Great post jone. Interestingly enough TomT commented upthread about the local view of the morality in general of the agencies behaviour--or more accurately of the girls attitudes.I concur with that .
It is not how we see it from a western perspective,but we are not living in the circumstances how this evolved.In essence it is rationalised on the basis that no one is forcing the guys to spend their money.It has a degree of logic-- but is not matched by western ideas of the morality of it.

How true.  Is it really worth all the fuss about one gal that got into it before she understood the big picture.  Seems a little trivial to me.

With all the insight she might have to offer the forum, I was surprised that she would be treated with so much disrespect.

[Turboguy]

[msg322509#msg322509 date=1360046650]

With all the insight she might have to offer the forum, I was surprised that she would be treated with so much disrespect.

I definitely agree with you on that one.  Sad, isn't it?

[Shadow]

Galyna thanks for your answers.
Contrary to the opinion of some men who seem to be mesmerized by a woman that caters their dream, I am not among those who disrespect you.

While married I am still interested in the working of agencies and the whole process. Your description simply matches the view that as much as we believe certain agencies run an operation that is not exactly moral, genuine women do sign up. And sometimes a blind squirrel does find a nut, or as some would say a golden nugget.

While you write about Ukraine and its culture, you may without doubt have met the American culture which has a different way of thinking from Europe. I do hope you have not been influenced too much by it.
The main difference is that American culture is dualistic, there are no shades of grey but things have to be black or white (people excluded). The discussion here is a prime example. In Europe, and especially the FSU that has met the dualistic culture even later, it is common to see a middle ground and line.

To those who do not understand I recommend the movie "white sun of the desert" which gives an excellent insight if you are open for it. The bad guys in the movie are not entirely bad, nor are the good ones entirely good. They do what they have to due to the circumstances they live and survive in.

While we feel that certain sites should be avoided due to the way they operate, you happen to be married as a result of one of them, proving that they can work. That does not disqualify you as giving valid and useful information and opinions, after all you were born and lived most of your life in Ukraine.

[Ade]

How true.  Is it really worth all the fuss about one gal that got into it before she understood the big picture.  Seems a little trivial to me.

With all the insight she might have to offer the forum, I was surprised that she would be treated with so much disrespect.

And it's amazing that asking direct questions and drawing conclusions based on the words she herself wrote can be considered "disrespectful". Unlike some here, I'm very much for treating people with respect and I respect women enough to treat them equally. You guys should take note; any woman worth having will appreciate candour that comes from truly respecting her.

[lordtiberius]

And it's amazing that asking direct questions and drawing conclusions based on the words she herself wrote can be considered "disrespectful". Unlike some here, I'm very much for treating people with respect and I respect women enough to treat them equally. You guys should take note; any woman worth having will appreciate candour that comes from truly respecting her.

For someone so irreligious and quick to fly the flag of hypocrisy, you sure do like blowing your own horn, dear kettle.  Excuse me if I question the sincerity and purity of your proclaimed attentions.  Your accusations of fraud and misconduct have failed to materialize when you, your self has failed to produce financial evidence of her profiting from correspondence to suitors she did not take seriously, and one that would later become her future husband.  It is not like we are talking about Brewster's millions either  And further even if were wear to take the blackest lies and paint them white, IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.  GET OVER IT.

She has taken the time to share her happiness with the likes of you and this is the thanks she gets.  Perhaps it is the custom in socialist countries to punish good deeds and you can therefore be excused for your bad behavior.  But call me Gandolf, this kind of behavior "shall not pass."  It is unseemly, ungentlemanly and miserly.  As one who has enjoyed the fruits of fatherhood, be generous.

[Patagonie]

Ya know, I tend to believe the best in people as well.  Even when they're being, well, loutish!  Shall we stop asking her questions that are not respectful? 

I have met over twenty (now that I've met my gal's friends) who have participated in PPL sites.  I have begged them to come on here.  Facing what Galyna faced, I can see now why they demurred.  When I asked these women in a very tactful way what their thoughts were about having the agencies write letters to the men in their stead, the typical answer will amaze you. 

"That's what an agency is for, to get me dates to meet these men!  I can't spend all day answering their letters.  If they want to meet me, then, great."  The women did not consider that the agency was collecting money and scamming the men and setting expectations that they could not possibly meet.

It was an amoral answer, not an immoral answer.

These women are looking for men.  Of the fourteen or so women that I contacted through the PPL site, all but two of them wanted to meet.  And as soon as possible.  I was able to get email addresses from all but a few.  These were women who wanted a better life.  I am the greatest advocate for shutting down the current PPL setup.  It is wrong to let men think they are actually communicating with the women. 

But it is also wrong for you to cross over a double yellow line going down the road.  Do you have a great moral dilemma when doing so?  Neither do they.  It doesn't enter into their thinking. 

I am substantially younger than most of the men on this site.   My gal is just out of her twenties.  Can you remember back to that time frame, the dating, the lifestyle?  I can.  You just didn't think about these things.

Am I an apologist for the dating sites?  No.  They should be shut down.  But, absent another avenue to communicate with men, what alternatives do these gals have?  And don't say Ukraine Date or Bride.Ru.  These companies don't have enough money to get the message out. 

The PPL sites are self perpetuating because they have the resources to communicate to the men and to the women.  You can color it however you want, but the economics are driving the car.

As for the money I spent, the amount of money that went to the PPL site was, by far, the smallest item in my budget.  If I had it to do over again, I would have contracted someone like Eduard, because the thing that cost the most in this effort was my time.

Hi Jone, very good post. Probably the best of the the thread. Especially this :
"That's what an agency is for, to get me dates to meet these men!  I can't spend all day answering their letters.  If they want to meet me, then, great."

For those girls this is a great opportunity to meet men, an other option in their pool. Depending of the agency they generally loose the control of the process (their only option is to say yes/no to meet the guy and for some this is not even an option).
I have developped the opinion that writing is a trap (i don't want to detail here), and especially with ppl agencies. But it is also true for others sites (in a less manner) as a lot of ladies would prefer one they meet rather than one they write. As soon are they are 8 or more, and as many are not fluent in english, they cannot manage the flow of letters and answer and answer to let the real men (those who are going to put their asses in a plane) to choice who they are visiting.

On a women side, itis not giving them the best results for the unit of time invested.

[LiveFromUkraine]

For someone so irreligious and quick to fly the flag of hypocrisy, you sure do like blowing your own horn, dear kettle.  Excuse me if I question the sincerity and purity of your proclaimed attentions.  Your accusations of fraud and misconduct have failed to materialize when you, your self has failed to produce financial evidence of her profiting from correspondence to suitors she did not take seriously, and one that would later become her future husband.  It is not like we are talking about Brewster's millions either  And further even if were wear to take the blackest lies and paint them white, IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.  GET OVER IT.

She has taken the time to share her happiness with the likes of you and this is the thanks she gets.  Perhaps it is the custom in socialist countries to punish good deeds and you can therefore be excused for your bad behavior.  But call me Gandolf, this kind of behavior "shall not pass."  It is unseemly, ungentlemanly and miserly.  As one who has enjoyed the fruits of fatherhood, be generous.

Do you have to monetarily gain something in order to aid in a scam?


Let's see here.


She was told she didn't have to write any letters.
She was told she didn't have to meet any people.
She said she wasn't interested in meeting foreigners but signed up as a favor.


So she didn't get paid and that means she didn't help perpetuate a falsehood?


It is very easy to see why Ade came to the conclusions as he did based on her previous post. 

Now if she did sign up because she was interested in meeting a good guy, wrote her letters and was interested in meeting a qualified candidate in person, well, it looks like she didn't scam anyone.


Only she knows the truth but based on her previous post I can understand the responses.

[LiveFromUkraine]

While you write about Ukraine and its culture, you may without doubt have met the American culture which has a different way of thinking from Europe. I do hope you have not been influenced too much by it.
The main difference is that American culture is dualistic, there are no shades of grey but things have to be black or white (people excluded). The discussion here is a prime example. In Europe, and especially the FSU that has met the dualistic culture even later, it is common to see a middle ground and line.

Maybe Ade has been Americanized since he was one of the people who expressed a problem with this "shade of grey" you speak of.   


I hope he can get a vaccination for that.

[Ade]

For someone so irreligious and quick to fly the flag of hypocrisy, you sure do like blowing your own horn, dear kettle.  Excuse me if I question the sincerity and purity of your proclaimed attentions.  Your accusations of fraud and misconduct have failed to materialize when you, your self has failed to produce financial evidence of her profiting from correspondence to suitors she did not take seriously, and one that would later become her future husband.  It is not like we are talking about Brewster's millions either  And further even if were wear to take the blackest lies and paint them white, IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.  GET OVER IT.

I see your ability to reason hasn't improved at all in the migration from one forum to another.


No one here mentioned that she made money out of anything. Enabling an associate to con another is a different thing entirely though. Her initial posts indicated she did this. Her later posts, plead ignorance. What do you want to believe?


I could have missed it, and if I have I apologise to her in advance, but I still haven't read that she thinks what was done to mislead these men was wrong.

[Ade]

Maybe Ade has been Americanized since he was one of the people who expressed a problem with this "shade of grey" you speak of.   


I hope he can get a vaccination for that.

People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. I know the endemic petty corruption culture in the FSU leads people to think of it as normalcy. I also know that desperation changes peoples priorities and outlook; hey, I did many things in my teens that I regret and I'm far from proud of. I'm not going to label people "evil" because they are products of their society.

However, what I would expect of someone from the FSU who has been exposed to a more refined way of living/thinking is to accept that the petty corruption and the preying on the weak, the stupid and the hopeless is not a good or acceptable thing. Some FSU migrants seem to think it's okay to bring their attitudes west with them and to use people and the system any way they want if they think they can get away with it. It's those people that have flawed characters.

[calmissile]

It is you that has the flawed character!  All of the people I have met in person from Norway are nothing like you.  They are polite and respectful.  I suspect you will never gain this quality.
Galyna does not owe you an apology.  Contrary to your belief, I think most of the forum members would like to have heard what she has to offer without your attacks and disrespect.  Perhaps some of them will chime in and let you know that.

If we are to encourage women from the FSU to participate in this forum, they will need to at least be treated with respect and not interrogated about every facet of their life.  We are well aware you will try and pick them apart.  The is your MO and we do not appreciate it. We lost at least one nice Russian member this week that many on the forum thought very highly of. She got fed up with the negative posts and insults between members.  Who can blame someone coming here and discovering that the management encourages the disrespectful conduct, and decided to leave?

It's a big world out there and many civilized people are not going to stay around to listen/read the useless nitpicking that you tend to offer.  If you really like this sort of thing, then you might want to return to your other favorite forum and carry on.  Unless the ownership here has changed (?), this forum has been more civilized and more respectful between members.

This woman came here to offer what the forum is supposed to be about.  FSU dating!  It would have been interesting to have heard what she had to say without all the unrelated attacks on her character (by you).

Have a nice life!.  Most of the men in relationships and some of the married ones are more interested in providing advice to newbies to prepare them for their adventure rather than exchanging testerone driven, macho posts to show how important they are.  In the big picture, some are little men with a very big ego and a very big mouth, but very questionable character.

Since your favorite female moderator seems to be here to protect you, I do not expect your conduct to change.  Perhaps the members can let you know how they feel about your disruption of the posts and information Galyna has been trying to offer.

[calmissile]

People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. I know the endemic petty corruption culture in the FSU leads people to think of it as normalcy. I also know that desperation changes peoples priorities and outlook; hey, I did many things in my teens that I regret and I'm far from proud of. I'm not going to label people "evil" because they are products of their society.

However, what I would expect of someone from the FSU who has been exposed to a more refined way of living/thinking is to accept that the petty corruption and the preying on the weak, the stupid and the hopeless is not a good or acceptable thing. Some FSU migrants seem to think it's okay to bring their attitudes west with them and to use people and the system any way they want if they think they can get away with it. It's those people that have flawed characters.

Ade,

The day your daughter is born you are going to become a changed man!  You will no longer need to demonstrate you are are man.  It will transform you. Trust me.  Your daughter will become the most important thing in your lfie.   You won't need to continue these posts, except from your teared eyes expressing the joys of fatherhood.

Been there, done that.

[Shadow]

If we are to encourage women from the FSU to participate in this forum, they will need to at least be treated with respect and not interrogated about every facet of their life.  We are well aware you will try and pick them apart.  The is your MO and we do not appreciate it. We lost at least one nice Russian member this week that many on the forum thought very highly of. She got fed up with the negative posts and insults between members.  Who can blame someone coming here and discovering that the management encourages the disrespectful conduct, and decided to leave?

Since your favorite female moderator seems to be here to protect you, I do not expect your conduct to change.  Perhaps the members can let you know how they feel about your disruption of the posts and information Galyna has been trying to offer.

Do you see what I see ? 

[pitbull]

If we are to encourage women from the FSU to participate in this forum, they will need to at least be treated with respect and not interrogated about every facet of their life.  We are well aware you will try and pick them apart. 

Huh?
 
Galyna, beware - if you don't always agree with this old gentleman and write what he wants to see - you are awating an avalanche of disrespect, interrogation tactics and swearing. Just so you know    "Encourage women from FSU to particpate", my arse!

[pitbull]

If we are to encourage women from the FSU to participate in this forum, they will need to at least be treated with respect and not interrogated about every facet of their life.  We are well aware you will try and pick them apart.  The is your MO and we do not appreciate it. We lost at least one nice Russian member this week that many on the forum thought very highly of.

What's with the "we"? "We", tsar Ivan the IVth?

[Gator]

The main difference is that American culture is dualistic, there are no shades of grey but things have to be black or white (people excluded). The discussion here is a prime example. In Europe, and especially the FSU that has met the dualistic culture even later, it is common to see a middle ground and line.

BS.   You are reading too many editorials in Euro fishwrap.   Win-win compromise has been the cornerstone of successful team building in American businesses, and in politics too until four years ago.
 
Nevertheless, I agree with you that many RWD members do take "Black or White"  positions, examining every quickly typed word under a microscope as if were testimony sworn before a Senate investigation, and then making sweeping assumptions.
 

That does not disqualify you [Galina] as giving valid and useful information and opinions, after all you were born and lived most of your life in Ukraine.

Exactly.    So why sweat the petty stuff? 
 
If I were a newbie knowing nothing about what to expect in dating UW and developing a relationship, I would want to read insightful information.   Who would offer more useful information?   Galina?   Or the men critical of her being listed with a pay-by-letter agency?    Or those suspecting that Galina may have the balls to start up a commercial enterprise someday?   

[Gator]

Ah, now I see your strategy going forward.


Changing just a bit your words here from your original words.

OK, you win.

An example of Shadow's "Black and White."
 
 
 

The focus on what Galina should or should not have done is actually insignificant. Men who are patient, persistent and clever can and do marry women of whom they are not worthy. In almost every case, the key will have been his economic advantage, not his social equity. The scam industry was just one of the effects of this cause.
The moral of this story is that you have to take the bad with the good.

An example of Shadow's "Grey."

[GQBlues]

People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. I know the endemic petty corruption culture in the FSU leads people to think of it as normalcy. I also know that desperation changes peoples priorities and outlook; hey, I did many things in my teens that I regret and I'm far from proud of. I'm not going to label people "evil" because they are products of their society.

However, what I would expect of someone from the FSU who has been exposed to a more refined way of living/thinking is to accept that the petty corruption and the preying on the weak, the stupid and the hopeless is not a good or acceptable thing. Some FSU migrants seem to think it's okay to bring their attitudes west with them and to use people and the system any way they want if they think they can get away with it. It's those people that have flawed characters.

Best post in this thread! Well, OK, maybe not quite as good as mine were. Although my posts were just as realistic as his.


Not sure what the buzz about the gal considering she did say she played in the scamming tactics herself in the beginning. It was only when she was confronted with it did she try to backpedal like Michael Jackson doing the moonwalk on Billy Jean.

Besides, what's all these antics about a woman in her 20s schooling knowledge and culture to a bunch of men in their 60s and 70s? Felines don't really like feeding on limpbizkits, you know. The sight of these social rej...er, men drool, er, clamoring at her every er,...just about everything she does - is not only funny but borderline sickening. That's why the term 'dirty-old-men' came to fruition.  Heck, you even have jone professing how much he finds people like Galyna and her husband disgusting for their age disparity, then at the same time toss over sweet-barf-petals her way.

Have you ever seen Moose Lodges with 20 year old women? Of course not, and there's a very valid reason for that. Guys, you're in your 70s, too late for you to be interested in cultures, not least of which, etiquette. You couldn't stop your gas emissions if you concentrated and tried.

That's gawd's natural way to remind you your expiry date. Call it a personal alarm clock. One of life's many reminders.

tic-toc-tic-toc...