A little too forceful with opinions?

[Larry1]

That expression might apply to a great many threads here, but I recently heard it used to describe one person.

I was chatting earlier with a guy who I think is fairly new to the FSUW-search, meaning searching for less than a year but not yet having taken a trip (I think).  He has talked with quite a number of FSUW on skype.  I knew he had chatted with a particular FSUW we both know.  I asked him if anything had come of his chats with her.  He said no and when I asked why he explained:

At times she has a habit of being a little too forceful with opinions.

I had to smile at that because I too had thought I recognized that quality in her.  And another guy I know had come to the same conclusion about her.

After having dated FSUW for several years and been around the FSUW-search forums for some time, I recognize that in general FSUW have, how to put this in a neutral way, extremely strong opinions on a great many things and often express those opinions in a very forceful manner.

But it doesn't seem to be a binary choice, that is, either or, very strong opinions or not very strong opinions.  It seems to me to be helpful to consider a continuum, a line - on the extreme left of which lies a girl with not many opinions at all and on the extreme right of which lies one who has an an opinion, set in concrete, about nearly every possible topic and if you disagree with any one of them even to a slight extent you are an idiot, not fit for a relationship with anyone.

It seems likely that the closer the girl comes to the extreme right of that line the less pleasant life would be for the guy who marries her.  In that territory the compromises that most married couples make to resolve differences probably wouldn't get made and life would be a constant struggle. And that is why the guy I was chatting with decided not to proceed further with this girl.

I was chatting earlier this week with a FSUW friend about a similar topic.   My friend is absolutely delightful and has tremendous insight into FSU and Western people.  Her opinion was that a person could learn to act in ways that are healthier for a relationship.

What are your thoughts?  It would be helpful if you can present some observations or ideas based on experience rather than just the usual forum cliches or screeds.  But I realize that requires some additional effort, and, after all, you're not getting paid for this analysis. 

[jone]

My brain is so twisted up that I have to untwist it with this reply:

1. I think you are saying that men should understand that FSUW will have strong opinions.  I agree.

2.  Some men are turned off by such opinions and should modify their behavior.  I disagree.  If they don't like strong opinions they should try dating women from Bora Bora.  (Although some of those women have strong opinions too.)

3.  It is possible to mitigate those opinions by 'acting differently' in a relationship.  Hard to do over a long period of time.  Most FSU Women I have talked to have strong opinions because of experience and convictions.  For instance, one of the women I met believed that most Western Men had a lack of commitment to family life.  It turns out she had dated a man from Miami for three years and he avoided her family and wound up not marrying her.  My observation was that she will always have poor opinions of WM as candidates for family men (and I believe just the opposite.)

I also have had FSU women be extremely opposed to any alcohol consumption.  It doesn't take too much imagination as to why that could be.

But, always, and especially with my gal, there seems to be a reason for this conviction.  I would rather take a woman with strong opinions if they are based upon convictions and experience over someone wishy-washy, without convictions.  So long as she can back up her thoughts with intelligent conversation and perspective.

[ML]

Often wrong; but never in doubt.  This applies to many FSUW.

It would be an interesting psychological/sociological discussion to shed light on where this characteristic comes from.

One possibility is that since they think that westerners are stupid; so then they must be right in discussions with us covering most topics.

However, perhaps Eduard and others can enlighten us as to whether this 'often wrong, never in doubt' phenomena applies to FSUW interaction with FSUM also.

I should add that my Gal is not forceful with her opinions.  She has them; just don't push them strongly, in majority of cases.

But, I am sure she strongly believes in the general superiority of FSU folk and sticks to babushka lessons even when they are proven to be completely silly.

She could listen to a Nobel prize winner debunk some of her beliefs . . . and within 10 minutes would be back to singing the praises of her beliefs.

[Daveman]

Often wrong; but never in doubt.  This applies to many FSUW.

It would be an interesting psychological/sociological discussion to shed light on where this characteristic comes from.

One possibility is that since they think that westerners are stupid; so then they must be right in discussions with us covering most topics.

However, perhaps Eduard and others can enlighten us as to whether this 'often wrong, never in doubt' phenomena applies to FSUW interaction with FSUM also.

I should add that my Gal is not forceful with her opinions.  She has them; just don't push them strongly, in majority of cases.

But, I am sure she strongly believes in the general superiority of FSU folk and sticks to babushka lessons even when they are proven to be completely silly.

She could listen to a Nobel prize winner debunk some of her beliefs . . . and within 10 minutes would be back to singing the praises of her beliefs.

I've communicated with/met many and dated a few who are as described...



I did meet one FSUW who is very open minded, has no problem changing an opinion when provided with proper evidence, and, surprisingly enough, at least pretends to believe I'm a fairly intelligent guy.  I had no choice but to marry her.  She's still a little firecracker though.. 

[ML]

She's still a little firecracker though.. 

Dave check out this song by Josh Turner:  "Firecracker"



Quite sexual when you listen to 'she goes off like . . .'

Ask your Gal to put on a miniskirt and do a private dance for you to this song.

Another good one for a private show for you is:

Mary Chapin Carpenter,  "Down at the Twist and Shout"

[I/O]

would be helpful if you can present some observations or ideas based on experience rather than just the usual forum cliches or screeds.

That's what a dwindling handful of us have been saying about commentary on the entirety of this caper for years.
 
Opinions - Russian women, at least the ones I've mixed with certainly have them, some valid and some utter bullshit but they have them and will rarely change, even in the face of good evidence, my ol' lady is no exception.
 
Basically, this one is a 'given', the question is, how to deal with it or how to live with it. On that one, I have nothing to offer other than several years and three kids of experience.........
 
 

[Belvis]

Often wrong; but never in doubt.  This applies to many FSUW.

I tend to agree with the statement above. When you have no doubts the life is easier, right?. Sometimes there can be a positive side of this stubborness. FSUW may stick with a man even if he's a jerk, just because of she doesn't want to acknowledge he's a jerk.

After having dated FSUW for several years and been around the FSUW-search forums for some time, I recognize that in general FSUW have, how to put this in a neutral way, extremely strong opinions on a great many things and often express those opinions in a very forceful manner.

I'm not quite get why her strong opinions  should bother a man. These opinions don't create problems in а relationship till she keeps principal idea you're the right man for her. Her extremely strong opinion can be changed in completely opposite strong  opinion, so what? My wife hated the green tea I brought to her from Japan, it tastes like a grass according to her though she likes herb tea. It takes about a year she became admirer of japanese green tea.

[BBC]

One possibility is that since they think that westerners are stupid; so then they must be right in discussions with us covering most topics.

Oh, we don't think that western men are more stupid that FSUM, for that aspect - no difference .

If seriously, some cultural influence here is that often FSUM had much less involvement in household routine and raising children, especially in families where men were alcoholics. So, women were acting heads of the family (not nominal) and had to take decisions alone, and ... force them, where necessary. I see that girls raised in such families resemble such superior tendency, however, if they are able to listen and hear the opposite arguments - nothing wrong if they have different opinions than yours (or they better have than not).

On the other hand, I don't see more FSUW on the extreme right of the line, than WW - they have different reasons perhaps, but still there. 

As for my personal experience... My husband told me as a joke (but with very serious expression in his eyes  ) that I am potentially in the risk group to be "bossy" woman because of my supervising roles for years on the job. I told him to remind me about it. And you know what? In fact he is the one who has to be reminded more regular that there isn't only his way  .

[calmissile]

Oh, we don't think that western men are more stupid that FSUM, for that aspect - no difference .

If seriously, some cultural influence here is that often FSUM had much less involvement in household routine and raising children, especially in families where men were alcoholics. So, women were acting heads of the family (not nominal) and had to take decisions alone, and ... force them, where necessary. I see that girls raised in such families resemble such superior tendency, however, if they are able to listen and hear the opposite arguments - nothing wrong if they have different opinions than yours (or they better have than not).

On the other hand, I don't see more FSUW on the extreme right of the line, than WW - they have different reasons perhaps, but still there. 

As for my personal experience... My husband told me as a joke (but with very serious expression in his eyes  ) that I am potentially in the risk group to be "bossy" woman because of my supervising roles for years on the job. I told him to remind me about it. And you know what? In fact he is the one who has to be more regular reminded that there isn't only his way  .

LOL and you have a mature adult relationship.  I commend you and your husband..  That is how marriage should work out.

[BBC]

LOL and you have a mature adult relationship.  I commend you and your husband..  That is how marriage should work out.

I will tell you if it's true one-two years later  . I'm relocating permanently to Canada next month only...

[calmissile]

I will tell you if it's true one-two years later  . I'm relocating permanently to Canada next month only...

Congrats on moving to Canada.  I have other friends that have wives moving to Canada.  I hope you love your move to Canada.  Some time we should have a North American reunion of FSU wives and their husbands in NA.   LOL

[Shadow]

There are two different things here that mix. First of all, people (not just women) in the FSU do not need the concept of being PC and are used to express their thoughts freely and often bluntly. Which is in itself a refreshing thing, but can be shocking in a culture where people walk on their toes not to say a bad expression.

The second thing is that as education does not implant thought patterns but is factual, people are more trained to form their opinion and defend them.

As for Nobel prize winners debunking, it depends which Nobel prize they won, and if it is in their field. A nobel prize winner for physics would not change the opinion of MrsShadow on politics, regardless how long he tries.

[Belvis]

As for Nobel prize winners debunking, it depends which Nobel prize they won, and if it is in their field. A nobel prize winner for physics would not change the opinion of MrsShadow on politics, regardless how long he tries.

FSU folks are generally sceptical about authorities or gurus unless they were their mums or grandmothers. I always think about Robert C. Merton who's got his Nobel prize for stock market option theory in 1997. However when he tried to employ his theory in LTCM hedge fund  he failed badly. LTCM go busted in 1998 because of risk management.

[XMan]

Strong opinions (defended in an illogical fashion) are certainly not solely the realm of FSU women.  The worst I have ever seen was an AW.  When I was able to provide clear, bullet proof logic about a particular topic, the end result was anger or worse on her part.  On the other hand, if someone can provide a reasonable stance on a topic to me, at the very least I can see both sides, and I am certainly open to changing my opinion. 

Some of the strange convictions and / or superstitions are something one has to become accustomed to.  Many have been discussed on the forum in the past, but one is that if one drinks juice when one has a cold / sore throat it will only make it worse.  There are many many others. 

Upon seeing a rainbow once, an FSU woman asked me if I knew the cause.  I went on to explain (through an interpreter) the refractive index of glass prisms and how water droplets behave like miniature prisms, etc.  Hey, she asked.  In the end I got puzzlement and an explanation of the Noah story.  Not what I was expecting, but I didn't cram science down her throat, and we laughed about it later. 

I would not want a pushover woman, but nor would I want a chronically contentious one.  Nothing can make the latter palatable enough (for me, at least) to go past a first meeting if that is case. 

[Gator]

Basically, this one is a 'given', the question is, how to deal with it or how to live with it. On that one, I have nothing to offer other than several years and three kids of experience.........

Obviously you have learned to save your breath.  I am getting better, but still have a way to go, particularly when the RW opinion defies medical science. 

Clearly the reason for the life expectancy of only 59 years for FSU males is that too many men :

1)  continue to argue with their wives believing he can change her mind, 

2)  resort to vodka to deal with an incessant stream of nonsense, or

3)  heed his wife's health advice rather than use modern medicine.
 

[ML]

Note:  There are three different subtopics going on here.

1. About independent women with opinions.

2. About women who project their opinions in a forceful way.

3. About women who have opinions that fly in the face of common sense and even scientific proof.

Some of the PWed men will sugar coat the situation with number three by referring to situation number one.

[I/O]

Obviously you have learned to save your breath.

Logical discussions are met with the same, whether there is agreemnt or not is another matter. Unfortunately my patience with BS is no better than when I started and that makes for some thick air at times. ~Shrug~.