What is an MOB'er?

[LiveFromUkraine]

After spending significant time in Ukraine, the foreigners I seen coming over there would not be people I wanted to associate with.  I am talking in generalities.  I also met some cool guys.

Look at how the MOB agencies market their services.  It shouldn't be far fetched that the people who take the agency bait would not be people of the highest quality.  Generally speaking of course.


I would also want to distance myself from those types of guys.


I don't necessarily believe the membership here portrays what I saw.  I can't imagine they would stick around with all the "real" talk.

[jone]

I would also want to distance myself from those types of guys.

I would want to distance myself from me, too.  But I can never seem to get away!

[Gator]

Well, then that's pretty ironic ...
 

In your case GQ I wish you were being ironic, i. e. conveying a message opposite of the literal meaning of your words.  Your words were insulting and clearly you meant to insult.

 

If anyone is being insolent it is YOU for attacking the messenger instead of the message....

OK, let's examine your message about MOBers.  I agree with your list except for 1, 7, 15 and 17.
 
No. 1 -  I see nothing wrong in trying again provided one has learned from the first endeavor.  In my case I went back to the woman whom I wanted to marry in the first place. 
 
No. 7 & 15 - I see no need to volunteer that a man is on a VM trip.  Such will be obvious to the smart RW without rubbing her nose in it.  If she asks, do not lie. 
 
No. 17 - I would not call it a sacrifice, but they are indeed "home" (their family, friends, connections, job, language and culture for a strange land).  It certainly is not a sacrifice to the desperate woman who wants out of the FSU.  However, the sincere RW knows there will be some adjustment problems.  And the man should mentor her and facilitate her.

 I must plead ignorance to your No. 12 because I have not yet experimented with that form of anal sex.   
 
In summary, you and I are in 80 % agreement without any elaboration.  Maybe we would be even closer in agreement with further discussion.
 
 

You’re saying those things I mentioned never happen and you’ve never seen any of
these situations at all?

Of course they have happened, especially the sending of money and falling in love with a photo.  I inferred that you were declaring the typical MOBer does many of these "No No's."  I just don't see that.  Or doing only one makes a man a typical MOBer?
 
Let me make it clear that I do not claim to know the typical MOBer.  For sure, I have not had the opportunity to analyze all MOBers at a couple of agencies.  I have met a few while traveling through the FSU (and I am not shy to probe).  Most seemed like decent people.  I have read the posts of many MOBers at RWD and RWG before that.  Yes, some made some stupid mistakes and some were reaching oout of their league (a point you did not mention GQ), but most seemed sincere.   And I have met personally 15-20 AM and their RW wives.   That is not a small sample size, but it can not be considered statistically representative.   OTOH, I doubt that GQ's sample is much larger, especially when he refuses serious conversations.

One point that supports GQ's claim is that some RW said I was a welcome relief compared to other AM who had traveled through.  Anyone who knows me would realize that those other men must have been real bad.  Either that or those sweet RW were flirting with me.
 

  ...I met you in Moscow  in the middle of your WMVM trip....

Chalk that puppy up for the few mistakes I made in my life. 

How interesting.  I knew of your trip and I thought you would welcome a little break one afternoon to meet two RW who did not have a horse in the race, namely Irina aka as the famous "Donna Pedro" and my Moscow woman.  I thought both tried to help you that day.   And you thought it was a mistake.  No wonder you did not buy a round of pivo after I bought the first round.   
 
And for years afterwards I had nothing but praise for you.   It just seems that in the past couple of years you have inexplicably become sour.  Having hot flashes?  And it comes across IMO that you are projecting yourself as superior, never wrong except for accepting my invitation to meet in Moscow.    I abhor people who think themselves superior.  It surprises me too about you GQ because I know you are an intelligent man.
 

[Daveman]

Okay, back for a minute... this thread really isn't supposed to be about GQ, but rather commonalities, yet it does provide opportunity to further explore some aspects...

I don't think GQ is cynical.  IMHO, there is truth in what he posts.  Where I think he differs from most posters is first, he comes from a country where he has seen Westerners exploit the economic disparities to their advantage, so he knows what they do, and for the locals, how it feels.  Second, a common "theme", so to speak, in GQ's posts is he is married to a woman, not a Russian.  He is more interested in the former.  Most of you guys don't get that, and I doubt you ever will.

And still... the result remains identical, which is part of the discussion.  He (and others) made a trip(s) for the purpose of meeting FSU ladies. He met FSU ladies -- developed a relationship with a much younger woman, and transplanted her here in the USA.  At some point, with the age gap, he will also become an old geezer while she's much younger. What difference does it make if a man marries a younger woman as an old geezer or grows into the old geyser role? Again, the end result remains the same - they become that couple held in disdain by some for how they look together.  Will he suddenly wake up one day and tell her, "hey, I'm an old geyser now, you must leave because I cannot bear the though of you wasting your youthful time with old wrinkled dick pamper ass..  Go forth young geyser challenged one! I Shan't stand in your way.. nay! Leave before you're youth is sucked dry by my geyserness!"




Of course I get the difference between Russian and Woman, but I don't see a need or even a possibility to separate the two. I'm married to my wife. She's my family. She is a woman and she is Ukrainian - the latter making up a good portion of what has molded her into the wonderful and unique person she is. 

I applaud GQ for encouraging his wife to step outside her comfort zone and obtain a good education and build a real career.  Most of the men here have not done that.  Exceptions - pitbull's hubby (who doesn't post here), Muzh, and ML.  There may be others I have missed but the point is, they are the minority.   It takes an exceptionally confident man to encourage his wife to have her own independence, particularly at a level where she no longer needs him economically.  That is how GQ is different, at least, in how I read his posts.

Add to the list TurboGuy, jb, Catzenmouse and a few others whose usernames escape me at the moment... Yes, these are all cool guys .... who are simply doing the right thing. There's no pedestal, in my book, for doing the right thing. You just do it..   The laudable behavior goes to the ladies for taking an opportunity presented and running with it.. achieving whatever dream.. 


Not all women have such lofty goals.. are they *less* for wanting to be homemakers?  Or are their husbands schmucks for not kicking their butts out the door to go back to school?


What I find odd is the amount of seeming contempt - in the group where, while personalities obviously differ, all are basically doing the same things -- and are viewed the same by outsiders anyway.






And to another note...


As far as MOB'er... I, honest to god, have no idea what it means or if it actually has any meaning at all.  I can't answer your question FP because I honestly don't have a clue.   MOB is a cutesy label placed by others... MOB'er, I guess, is placed by those others upon all of us.  For members here to become involved in the labeling seems to me somewhat similar to two white guys pointing at each other screaming "Honkey!"



Anyway, this thread wasn't intended to be the assassination of Ferdinand...

[calmissile]

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that a MOB'r was anyone that dated/married a foreigner that they met on a  dating web site or took a tour.

[Boethius]

And still... the result remains identical, which is part of the discussion.  He (and others) made a trip(s) for the purpose of meeting FSU ladies. He met FSU ladies -- developed a relationship with a much younger woman, and transplanted her here in the USA.  At some point, with the age gap, he will also become an old geezer while she's much younger. What difference does it make if a man marries a younger woman as an old geezer or grows into the old geyser role?

A long marriage, for one. 

Of course I get the difference between Russian and Woman, but I don't see a need or even a possibility to separate the two. I'm married to my wife. She's my family. She is a woman and she is Ukrainian - the latter making up a good portion of what has molded her into the wonderful and unique person she is. 

She likely would've been the same unique and wonderful person had she born across the street from where you grew up.  The point is, you are living with a living soul.  Not a Ukrainian soul.  Not, at some, point, an American soul.  Just a soul, one hopes, of an evolved level. 

Add to the list TurboGuy, jb, Catzenmouse and a few others whose usernames escape me at the moment... Yes, these are all cool guys .... who are simply doing the right thing. There's no pedestal, in my book, for doing the right thing. You just do it..   The laudable behavior goes to the ladies for taking an opportunity presented and running with it.. achieving whatever dream.. 

It's not about putting GQ on a pedestal.  It is the exception, rather than the norm, though.

Not all women have such lofty goals.. are they *less* for wanting to be homemakers?  Or are their husbands schmucks for not kicking their butts out the door to go back to school?

I have never met a woman without school age children who wants to be a homemaker.  I think that is more a man's desire than a woman's.

What I find odd is the amount of seeming contempt - in the group where, while personalities obviously differ, all are basically doing the same things -- and are viewed the same by outsiders anyway.

Do you really believe outsiders really care at all?

[Gator]

I applaud GQ for encouraging his wife to step outside her comfort zone and obtain a good education and build a real career.  Most of the men here have not done that. 

      It is the exception, rather than the norm, though.   

 
Is this based on facts or your intuition.   This would make for an interesting RWD survey/poll.  In that way we would have facts rather than guesses.   
 
Most RW wives are young, so such a poll needs to recognize 1) students and 2) homemakers.   When raising my two sons, their mother elected to cease her speech therapy position and stay home.  She said that being a homemaker was more difficult and tiring than earning a paycheck.
 
I know of several working RW here in Tampa.  Yesterday, doctor had a nurse who happened to be a RW; she explained laboratory results to my wife and translated for the doctor.  When preparing our prenup, my wife's attorney had an assistant who is a RW, and today she is a licensed attorney.  This past weekend in San Francisco, I asked the concierge for tour recommendations and then learned she is from Vladivostok.  Two weeks ago  I had lunch at a cafe and noticed that the manager is a RW. During my short marriage  to a Moscow woman, she had prepared herself for the real estate business.
 
Russians are everywhere in the work place!  Us American men are not holding them back.  It would be impossible if we tried.  We would be run over if we got in their way.  This zeal for work seems to come naturally to a woman who has the sense of adventure to marry a relative stranger and move to his strange land.   
 
Sadly, there are a couple of cases here in Tampa where the RW wife does not yet drive a car.  Whose fault is that?
 

 

[Daveman]

Interesting points... glad you're back posting... 

A long marriage, for one. 

And??


I don't mean to come across as shortchanging a long marriage.. but long, recent, whatever, how does that change the probability that some will have the same opinion of him that he now has of others?


It doesn't matter whether he cares.. I don't either for that matter.  It's still a similar situation in the moment.

She likely would've been the same unique and wonderful person had she born across the street from where you grew up.  The point is, you are living with a living soul.  Not a Ukrainian soul.  Not, at some, point, an American soul.  Just a soul, one hopes, of an evolved level.

And what if we don't believe in souls?     What you write is a highly romantic notion and sounds wonderful. But, what does it really mean?  Yes, at the end of the day we're just a man and woman together, but while there is future growth both separate and together, there's no way to remove the prior grooming embedded within our individuality. 

Plus, try as I might, the best I can do is a decent Dracula imitation (bleh.. bleh bleh!)..  she has the real deal!


Actually, I think we are merely splitting semantic hairs. 

It's not about putting GQ on a pedestal.  It is the exception, rather than the norm, though.

Is it truly that exceptional?  One of the most written about topics is the expense after her arrival - which always includes the cost of education as a large portion of her adaptation and pursuing her chosen career profession.  ????  Is it really all talk?   

I have never met a woman without school age children who wants to be a homemaker.  I think that is more a man's desire than a woman's.

I don't know.  I dated one who wanted to stay at home and raise kids, take care of the family, etc.  That's one out of five or 20% in my statistically insignificant sampling.

Do you really believe outsiders really care at all?

Yeah, they care enough to talk about it.. what's more important is - do we care? Nah, I can honestly say that I couldn't possible care less.  I don't want my wife's feelings to be hurt by an idiot, so care in that regard - about her.. but if that happens I'll simply eliminate some trash from the earth.. 

[CanadaMan]

How about we name the most cynical people who frequent this forum.

Here is my list

Had you tried to name simply 'the cynical people who frequent this forum', then your list might have been valid.
But since you added 'most' to your description, you must have at least one person on your list.   

[Boethius]

I don't mean to come across as shortchanging a long marriage.. but long, recent, whatever, how does that change the probability that some will have the same opinion of him that he now has of others?

Because long marriages are not built on the superficiality of a pretty face, which can be replaced easily with the next pretty face, or the size of a wallet, which usually can be replaced with an equal, or better wallet.

It doesn't matter whether he cares.. I don't either for that matter.  It's still a similar situation in the moment.

Nope.

And what if we don't believe in souls?     What you write is a highly romantic notion and sounds wonderful. But, what does it really mean?  Yes, at the end of the day we're just a man and woman together, but while there is future growth both separate and together, there's no way to remove the prior grooming embedded within our individuality. 

So call it the "essence" of who that person is.  Anyone who has seen his/her infant born, and witnessed the first days of life sees that they come into the world with certain personalities.  They are honed, or even pierced, with age and experience, but the essence of who that person is remains unchanged.

Is it truly that exceptional?  One of the most written about topics is the expense after her arrival - which always includes the cost of education as a large portion of her adaptation and pursuing her chosen career profession.  ????  Is it really all talk?   

Yes, it is.  How many men here can post that their wives developed independent careers with his full support and even prodding?   How many RW have the corner office?  That is quite exceptional, even among AW, let alone an FSUW who came to the U.S. on a K-1/K-3.

I don't know.  I dated one who wanted to stay at home and raise kids, take care of the family, etc.  That's one out of five or 20% in my statistically insignificant sampling.

Even after the children were grown?  I've never met a woman who wanted to do that.  Most of the SAHM I have met want to work, at least part time, once their children are in school.

[Daveman]

Because long marriages are not built on the superficiality of a pretty face, which can be replaced easily with the next pretty face, or the size of a wallet, which usually can be replaced with an equal, or better wallet.

And?? still doesn't change the way the situation will be viewed...

Nope.

Yep.  Absolutely, positively, without question or reasonable debate - is  - I D E N T I C A L  (nyah!)

So call it the "essence" of who that person is.  Anyone who has seen his/her infant born, and witnessed the first days of life sees that they come into the world with certain personalities.  They are honed, or even pierced, with age and experience, but the essence of who that person is remains unchanged.

We are born with certain genetic inheritances some of which are believed to affect personality traits, however, character traits are learned.  They may be influenced by genetics to a certain degree, however, if a baby is raised with thieves, thievery becomes proper and the acceptable norm.


While being born in Ukraine is not the be all and end all of "her", that influence cannot be discounted as a portion of the whole.

Yes, it is.  How many men here can post that their wives developed independent careers with his full support and even prodding?   

Maybe.. but how many just do it without talking about it?  It may be exceptional.  I would hope it isn't. However, there's not enough real information to make that case.

How many RW have the corner office?  That is quite exceptional, even among AW, let alone an FSUW who came to the U.S. on a K-1/K-3.

Now were back to "The laudable behavior goes to the ladies for taking an opportunity presented and running with it.. achieving whatever dream.. "

Even after the children were grown?  I've never met a woman who wanted to do that.  Most of the SAHM I have met want to work, at least part time, once their children are in school.

Of course I don't know. We didn't make it quite that far..     I don't recall if we ever had that specific conversation.  Probably not.  But it's a decent topic to discuss for guys and ladies contemplating such a situation.  Any situation is subject to change though as families or individuals don't reside in a predetermined vacuum.  I we were to have married, and if she were to have waited until after the kids are grown, I'd probably be dead and gone or drooling into my Gerber's without much opinion on the matter anyway.. she could do whatever and my response would be something along the lines of "bleh.. bleh bleh!"

[Daveman]

I would want to distance myself from me, too.  But I can never seem to get away!

Kinda like a monkey on your back?   








(damn, sometimes even I can come up with a decent one.. every now and then... mostly then)

[Boethius]

And?? still doesn't change the way the situation will be viewed...

Sure it does.  It is not the age gap people view with disdain.  It is the reasons behind that - buying youth/trading youth for access to cash.  That can't really be said of a long term union, can it?




How many large age gaps (let's say, 20 years or more) on this forum have been successful - I mean, passed the 14 years together mark?  I think Dan's is the only one.

We are born with certain genetic inheritances some of which are believed to affect personality traits, however, character traits are learned.  They may be influenced by genetics to a certain degree, however, if a baby is raised with thieves, thievery becomes proper and the acceptable norm.

Well, if that's the case, then I would recommend everyone stay out of Ukraine.  And, I say that as someone with more Ukrainian blood than my Ukrainian born spouse. 

While being born in Ukraine is not the be all and end all of "her", that influence cannot be discounted as a portion of the whole.

I think overall, it's a minimal influence.

[GQBlues]

In your case GQ I wish you were being ironic, i. e. conveying a message opposite of the literal meaning of your words.  Your words were insulting and clearly you meant to insult....

If the shoe fits...

 

...OK, let's examine your message about MOBers.  I agree with your list except for 1, 7, 15 and 17....

Finally.
 

...No. 1 -  I see nothing wrong in trying again provided one has learned from the first endeavor.  In my case I went back to the woman whom I wanted to marry in the first place...

Then maybe do a bit of soul searching...how many times did you state how you should've married someone else and how the cost of your divorce rivaled that of your attorney's fees?

What a nutty thing to say about a woman YOU praised/courted for 6 years running and then marry...do you think this way with your present wife now?

...No. 7 & 15 - I see no need to volunteer that a man is on a VM trip.  Such will be obvious to the smart RW without rubbing her nose in it.  If she asks, do not lie....

How convenient. Must I remind what you previously advocated in doing Gator? *If she doesn't ask, don't tell*. Isn't deception a another form of lying? It is to me and obviously not with you.... It has nothing to do with being a VM or a VO. Matter of fact *VO* with back-ups is even worst as far as I'm concerned.

Starting a relationship with shades of lies and deception is hardly a healthy way to start one, don't you think?
 

...No. 17 - I would not call it a sacrifice, but they are indeed "home" (their family, friends, connections, job, language and culture for a strange land).  It certainly is not a sacrifice to the desperate woman who wants out of the FSU.  However, the sincere RW knows there will be some adjustment problems.  And the man should mentor her and facilitate her....

*Sacrifice* is the exact word used by typical MOBers. Your attempt to re-define exactly what they said is pretty weak.

There was a RW member here before and her name was *Ooppps* (something like that) who laughed at the notion when MOBers speak in terms...she thought too that was hysterical.

My definition of a desperate woman are those who latches on men who spoke a language they do not understand yet married him anyway. For what? Passport? $$$? Do you know anyone like that?

... I must plead ignorance to your No. 12 because I have not yet experimented with that form of anal sex.

I'm sure sex is something that hasn't happened in a while. Add senility to that, then I can see why the ignorance.
 

...In summary, you and I are in 80 % agreement without any elaboration.  Maybe we would be even closer in agreement with further discussion....

Obviously not.
 
 

...Of course they have happened, especially the sending of money and falling in love with a photo.  I inferred that you were declaring the typical MOBer does many of these "No No's."  I just don't see that.  Or doing only one makes a man a typical MOBer?

I submit a man doing one of the things I stated upthread classifies him a typical MOBer. 'sway it is...
 

...Let me make it clear that I do not claim to know the typical MOBer.  For sure, I have not had the opportunity to analyze all MOBers at a couple of agencies.  I have met a few while traveling through the FSU (and I am not shy to probe).  Most seemed like decent people.  I have read the posts of many MOBers at RWD and RWG before that.  Yes, some made some stupid mistakes and some were reaching oout of their league (a point you did not mention GQ), but most seemed sincere.   And I have met personally 15-20 AM and their RW wives.   That is not a small sample size, but it can not be considered statistically representative.   OTOH, I doubt that GQ's sample is much larger, especially when he refuses serious conversations....

Well, I don't need to be a coy and agree with that statement. LOL. I am saying things matter of factly. I am on record with that, too. Anyone can take stock of the couples in one of these AM/FSUW couple gatherings everyone will soon attend or have attended. I don't need to lie about what I have seen. The majority of the men involved in this pursuit epitomize the typical MOBer...social rejects and old geezers.

...One point that supports GQ's claim is that some RW said I was a welcome relief compared to other AM who had traveled through.  Anyone who knows me would realize that those other men must have been real bad.  Either that or those sweet RW were flirting with me....

While in the company of some fine wine and exquisite dining, Gator? LOL.

....I knew of your trip and I thought you would welcome a little break one afternoon to meet two RW who did not have a horse in the race, namely Irina aka as the famous "Donna Pedro" and my Moscow woman.  I thought both tried to help you that day.   And you thought it was a mistake....

Ahhhh...How so cowardly of you Gator.  Interesting. Since when did Irina came to the discussion here? Is that your submission because you're running out of anything else to say? Pretty darn weak. tsk, tsk, tsk...

...No wonder you did not buy a round of pivo after I bought the first round...

You've gone senile old man. I offered and you refused. I knew then that would come back to haunt me one way or another. Would you like your dollar now? LOL.
 

...And for years afterwards I had nothing but praise for you.   It just seems that in the past couple of years you have *inexplicably become sour*.

Well, that's a load of BS. LOL.

...Having hot flashes?  And it comes across IMO that you are projecting yourself as superior, never wrong except for accepting my invitation to meet in Moscow.    I abhor people who think themselves superior.  It surprises me too about you GQ because I know you are an intelligent man...

You are just as silly and insecure as Misha..Both of you obviously suffer from an inferiority complex. I'm glad you abhor anyone who *thinks* they're superior. The only question now is, how can you live with yourself?

[Daveman]

Sure it does.  It is not the age gap people view with disdain. It is the reasons behind that - buying youth/trading youth for access to cash. That can't really be said of a long term union, can it?




How many large age gaps (let's say, 20 years or more) on this forum have been successful - I mean, passed the 14 years together mark?  I think Dan's is the only one.

I personally agree with you... but... we know more about their situation... and how would THEY know? It would in all probability, because of appearance, be assumed to be that stereotypical "buying youth/trading youth for access to cash."


We are talking about impressions.  From what was posted, he looked at who was there and decided he couldn't relate to any of them, as far as we know, based on how they appeared.  Perhaps there is more to it.  My, his, any of our situation would be no different when we become geyser aged to those who would make assumptions on appearances.

Well, if that's the case, then I would recommend everyone stay out of Ukraine.  And, I say that as someone with more Ukrainian blood than my Ukrainian born spouse. 

MOH'er!!!

I think overall, it's a ... influence.

ahhhhhh HA! You admit it!   




So, on a more serious note.. would you say this "buying youth/trading youth for access to cash." is naturally assumed? possibly the core definition of MOB'er??

[pitbull]

So call it the "essence" of who that person is.  Anyone who has seen his/her infant born, and witnessed the first days of life sees that they come into the world with certain personalities.  They are honed, or even pierced, with age and experience, but the essence of who that person is remains unchanged.

Agree with everything Boethius said, and this is especially true! "Nurture" can influence the "nature", "essence" of who the person is only so much. The essence truly remains unchainged and at the end of the day it doesn't matter whether you are with AW, RW, UW, or any other W - it really only matters what their true essence is.
I can tell you that when I look back at my childhood/upbringing I should have grown up a totally different person. I am what I was born though 
I remember when an old and very wise professor I worked with told me (after I announced my pregnancy): "Kids are like chocolates from the assorted chocolates box, you never know which kind you're going to get" - and told me about his three kids, now adults, who have entirely different essence even though raised exactly the same. He said - they are born what they are/will be and there is only so much you can do to change/hone that.   He was sooo right!!

[Boethius]

I believe GQ was responding to posts, not appearances.


Yes, I do think the general impression for those that actually form an impression, both in the West and in Ukraine, in particular, is that men go there to "buy" wives they'd have no chance of attracting in the West.  On a personal note, however, I personally believe most people are so concerned with their own lives, they don't really care about the lives of those who are not near and dear to them.

[calmissile]

Bo,

Your choice of words and characterization of the motives for men going to Ukraine to "buy" a wife is insulting and misleading.  Men go to Ukraine and other FSU countries because they cannot find what they are wanting in the US. 

To say that they cannot attract what they want is misleading. The truth is that they are in very short supply!  Any hot, single woman in the US is already so sought after that they already know their worth and can pick and choose who they want to date/marry.  There are so few of them, that the supply cannot meet the demand. 

The wonderful characteristics of many FSU women are what they want and that is why they go where the supply is.  It is not only beauty men are after, but the MOB agencies exploit that characteristic as well.

Perhaps if you rephrase your comment, we might be closer to agreement.

It is true that the women often marry Americans to improve their lifestyles.  So what?  That applies to all kinds of people.  People move and change jobs to improve their lifestyles.  It is a natural human desire.

[LiveFromUkraine]

How many large age gaps (let's say, 20 years or more) on this forum have been successful - I mean, passed the 14 years together mark?  I think Dan's is the only one.

A marriage that lasts 14 years is now considered successful?  13 years is a failure but 15 years is a success.  lol

[Boethius]

The average number of years a couple is married before divorce (first marriage) is 14 years.  Beat that, and you've beaten the odds.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The average number of years a couple is married before divorce (first marriage) is 14 years.  Beat that, and you've beaten the odds.

I always knew you were a romantic.   


Lot's of guys are on their second and third marriages.  How long do they need to sweat it out to win the marriage game?

[Boethius]

Bo,

Your choice of words and characterization of the motives for men going to Ukraine to "buy" a wife is insulting and misleading.  Men go to Ukraine and other FSU countries because they cannot find what they are wanting in the US. 

To say that they cannot attract what they want is misleading. The truth is that they are in very short supply!  Any hot, single woman in the US is already so sought after that they already know their worth and can pick and choose who they want to date/marry.  There are so few of them, that the supply cannot meet the demand. 

The wonderful characteristics of many FSU women are what they want and that is why they go where the supply is.  It is not only beauty men are after, but the MOB agencies exploit that characteristic as well.

Perhaps if you rephrase your comment, we might be closer to agreement.

It is true that the women often marry Americans to improve their lifestyles.  So what?  That applies to all kinds of people.  People move and change jobs to improve their lifestyles.  It is a natural human desire.

Reread what I posted.  This is the impression of most individuals.    I am not posting my personal opinion.


OlgaH once posted a link to an AFA social in Russia, which was from a Russian forum.  I translated one of the comments, which made the post above look kind, in comparison.


In a country of over 300 million men can't find even one lone woman who is what they want?  Sorry, I don't believe that.  It's just a justification.


As for AW, they are not in short supply.  But, they are emancipated, and they have options most UW do not have.  They also have a strong judicial system and support systems to turn to if they face harassment, discrimination, domestic violence, or sexual assault, and those are still lacking in Ukraine.  There are not many AW who would choose men decades older.  Yes, it happens, but it is not routine.


WRT the "MOB industry", the "characteristics" of FSUW are generally a marketing tool, as are the representations on their sites that FSUW "don't care about a man's age, or the shape of his body, etc."  Women are women world over.  One over forty poster here posted his experience with a service provider telling him, with a wink, that "the age of consent in Ukraine is 17".   Now, I'll assume he was not the only client who heard that line.  So, are men looking for these "characteristics" in teen aged Ukrainian girls?  The ones in such short supply, including, presumably, beauty, in like aged American girls?


The MOB industry is just that, an industry, fueling fantasies and making money be leveraging economic disparity.  There is a reason it is dying in Russia, which has a GDP almost double that of Ukraine.  Unless, of course, one is to believe that, just as with AW, UW possess these "characteristics" and "beauty" in far greater numbers than do RW.




If people want to marry for money, or greater opportunity, I don't really care.  Their lives, to live as they wish.  But from what I have observed, relations built on sand don't tend to last, particularly when the foundation experiences a little shake.

[Boethius]

I always knew you were a romantic.   


Lot's of guys are on their second and third marriages.  How long do they need to sweat it out to win the marriage game?

I used to be.  But reading a lot of the vomit inducing drivel on this forum knocked it out of me.  I am, though, married to the last romantic in the world.

[jone]

My, my, my,

We've been percolating along, haven't we? 

I don't have anything negative to say or anything to refute so you probably won't want to read this.

But I was watching the other day, an interracial couple and was thinking about the obstacles that they faced.  In my social circles, some of these marriages are the norm and some are not.  It depends on which race and how different they are.  There doesn't seem to be any ostracism for an inter racially married couple.  Some of my best friends have gone that route and they are more affluent and better educated than many of their same race based counterparts.

Where am I going with this?  We take exception to those people who do ostracize an interracial couple, yet find it convenient to highlight age differences between consenting adults.  Notice I said adults.  I don't find many pre 25 year old women to have fully formed adult minds and I am certain most pre 25 year old men do not have them.  I have known a few May/December romances.  As stated above, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.  But the next time you consider one of these romances, consider that it is gauche if you are an enlightened individual to disdain an interracial marriage.  Yet the same statistics seem to hold true for interracial marriages as hold true for age gap marriages.  And the enlightened among us seem to frown upon them.  Just a thought.

History is replete with younger women marrying older men.  Many FSU women that I know will not consider marrying someone their own age.  They feel that the risk of marriage failure is much greater marrying someone their own age.  While I am a statistical sample of one, I have heard this from many women, for many years, even while I was still one of those under 25 year olds mentioned above.

Cheers!

-j

[LiveFromUkraine]

I used to be.  But reading a lot of the vomit inducing drivel on this forum knocked it out of me. 

You should leave if this forum has such a negative impact on you. 

I am, though, married to the last romantic in the world.

Maybe because he doesn't participate on this forum.