What is an MOB'er?

[pitbull]

I thought the same thing, Dave.  But it's hard to compliment someone on doing something extraordinary when she will only believe you are patronizing her.

jone,
 
Why don't you try? Everybody deserves a second chance 
Also, I didn't get the "extraordinary" part. 

[TheTraveler]

cal, I have spoken to many UW, both in Ukraine and here.  In Ukraine, most are divorced, with children.  Here, most are married to UM.  None of these women are looking for a foreign man.  I have never, ever, heard any of them say what these women tell WM.

my impressions of russian/ukrainian men are fairly mixed.

at home and in my travels abroad, i've met some pretty solid guys... but i've also met my share of spoiled helpless momma's boys.

i'm sure russian/ukrainian women see what i see.

and i'm sure they'd like a solid guy, regardless of the country.

[Boethius]

None of which changes the fact that in both Russia and Ukraine, age gap relationships are the exception, not the norm, and any FSUW who tells a WM otherwise is fibbing. 
 

[Daveman]

None of which changes the fact that in both Russia and Ukraine, age gap relationships are the exception, not the norm, and any FSUW who tells a WM otherwise is fibbing.

Yes, agreed.  But are they the norm with cross-cultural relationships/marriages?


Seems the cross-cultural survey supports only a small shift in that direction.  Eight - nine years as opposed to four or five.


The indication would be that while some would be open to the idea, or attracted, or fall in love, those women are probably a small fraction and are somehow unique.  The rest are probably in the insincere/arrangement category.


Translation? The woman would be exceptional.


_{***no animals were harmed in the typing of this post so no panties need be wadded! any similarity to events, persons and/or marriages/relationships -real or imagined - is purely coincidental. Imaginary girlfriends from Anastasia, et al, are exempted as no amount of logic, reason, or data analysis may be applied to that which doesn't actually exist***}

[Boethius]

I don't believe I stated they are the norm.  I don't really care who marries whom, provided all parties are of legal age.  But, when a WM posts justifications which are not factual, well, you know I won't let that go by unchallenged.

[GQBlues]

None of which changes the fact that in both Russia and Ukraine, age gap relationships are the exception, not the norm, and any FSUW who tells a WM otherwise is fibbing.

Very likely true.

I'm just not too sure if this holds true in the US since it seems most if not all the AM/FSUW couples we've met apparently met here in places like the supermarkets, malls, parks, through friends, etc...

Could it be these FSUWs mysteriously changed their attitude about this and had grown an affinity for old men? How do you explain that?

[Daveman]

I don't believe I stated they are the norm.  I don't really care who marries whom, provided all parties are of legal age.  But, when a WM posts justifications which are not factual, well, you know I won't let that go by unchallenged.

I don't believe I stated that you stated that they are the norm...


Sheesh, you're the most difficult person I've ever encountered to simply agree with...


 

[Brillynt]

_{***no animals were harmed in the typing of this post so no panties need be wadded! any similarity to events, persons and/or marriages/relationships -real or imagined - is purely coincidental. Imaginary girlfriends from Anastasia, et al, are exempted as no amount of logic, reason, or data analysis may be applied to that which doesn't actually exist***}

    

[Muzh]

sitting on the toilet seat?  isn't that unhygienic?

the only way i can prevent dunking my johnson into the toilet water is to stand perfectly upright.  doesn't every man face that problem?

Do you also take a shit standing?   

[Muzh]

Technically, if he doesn't know then he's not settling.. however, as far as I'm aware, Actorol is not widely available in the FSU (though very much needed as the clip in another thread indicates), AND - call it a hunch - RW as a group are not the greatest actresses in the world, so the anecdotal husbands of the anecdotal insincere wives must be delusional, clueless, or that love doesn't play such a large, or as large, of a role as T and A.  Ooooops, make that much younger and firmer T and A.


So, if typical exists, then perhaps that would lend some insight into traits of typical MOB'er and MOB's..


Such as insincerity, delusion, willingness to settle or choosingness to enter an arrangement, stellar acting skills (and and untapped goldmine of potential for agents of a different field).


Others?

So you really think a man can fake an orgasm as well, or better than a woman?

[Muzh]

Love is just another convenience in a marriage too just as is financial stability. It's real hard to be happy in love when the kids and you don't have good clothes and are starving. If a woman has a choice to choose love or financial stability in a man but can't have both, it's wiser of her to choose financial stability. Love doesn't solve real life problems.

You are talking about:

a) a moocher
b) an incapacitated woman; physically and/or mentally
c) a conniving witch
d) someone who does not match; physically and/or emotionally

Imagine in the old days when men were hunters and brought home the meat. If a man were strong and intelligent and brought in lots of food compared to the dumb weak guy, he gets the girls. Through his work ethic and abilities proving him a good provider for a family, he is respected and with respect, then comes love.

Imagine nothing. That was millennia ago.

As fast as some people marry in this endeavor, love can't be all that strong when they marry. It can grow later and that is acceptable to most people.

You can justify all you want. You have to.

[Muzh]

 
I told my wife that most every man loses his job or business in his lifetime. There will be struggles and trying times. She told me she'll be by my side if that happens to me.
 
I wouldn't marry a woman if she wasn't into me physically and emotionally. I can accept people marrying for only financial convienence or a warm body in bed but I can't accept that for myself. There has to be love. I dated a lot of women and had options. Not every man or woman have options and if they wait for their dream man/woman to show up in their life, they'd be single for a long time or the rest of their life. They have to settle for less but for many people less is better than being alone.
 
Even if true, the guy that gets better results over the next guy is more benefitial to a family as a provider and protector and his genes is the genes a woman wants her kids to have.

I see. You are one of the rare exceptions where the woman was in love when she married her husband.

[Muzh]

 
I'm going to rewind now that I got some time to read more of this thread since it happened at warp speed.
 
Yes "traditional woman" can be ambiguous. Some people assumes it means a woman that stays home and have babies. Wrong. For most people it means it's a woman that have skills compared compared to many modern women who don't. Most younger women will admit their moms, on average, may have more skills than they. Even modern men have these problems. They know how to play video games but they don't know where the dipstick in their car is located.
 
More than what people know they want, they probably know better what they don't want. Most of of here have been through one marriage already. We've been educated and we can do better on our second if we make adjustments in ourselves and/or understand what is a better fit for ourselves in our marriages.
 
Some of us may have been married to a "modern woman" who is independent in the way she doesn't need a man unless it's when she wants and knows how to cook a mean tv dinner or popcorn in a microwave. Yes, it's true not all women know how to cook or take care of kids. Why did men marry these women? Love, something we want, something that's supposed to take care of us through thick and thin, blinded and deceived us.  Most men here can admit missing red flags in their previous marriage or some of us realized the red flags are coming from ourselves and their wives missed it.
 
It's important for men and women to have skills in life, call it traditional if you like. Aloe who is married to a man close in age with her has a husband that likes to spend lots of time on video games. She probably wished her man did more things constructive, such as fix the house, take the family to a park, take the family on a trip, clean the yard, etc.... She probably wished she had a traditional hard working man....maybe like her father but love could've blinded her and she safely assumed all men are like the examples of the ideal men she had in mind.
 
Some posters earlier mentioned reading FSU women forums of the wives complaining about their large age gap cross cultural marriages. Of course problems happen in those situations but a small population on an internet forum doesn't represent everybody. Those that complain do it louder and more often than those that are happy. People in happy marriages don't tend to talk about their marriages as much on the internet. I'm also not very sympathetic to those who enter into a marriage willingly and complain about it and put down their spouse.

You got me here salivating!!!

What are those skills the woman should have??

[Daveman]

So you really think a man can fake an orgasm as well, or better than a woman?

Practice makes perfect!!! 


I'm not sure how that analogy would relate.  Orgasm duping occurs over a period of tens of seconds.  "Passionate love" duping must continue for months or years.  I'm asserting that most women, while they may be able to fake orgasms convincingly, will give of signs of insincerity over the long term with something as purely emotional as passionate love.


Really, I don't just buy that the majority of women can fool men who are not complicit in the process - about being in love anyway. 

[Misha]

[size=78%]Really, I don't just buy that the majority of women can fool men who are not complicit in the process - about being in love anyway. [/size]

I agree. Though, I do know that my wife had fallen in love with me when we married and I do know that she loves me now.

[Boethius]

Really, I don't just buy that the majority of women can fool men who are not
complicit in the process - about being in love anyway. 

I do believe women, and men, for that matter, can fool a significant other about love.   I don't believe one can "know" when things are going well.  It is when life throws a curve at you, something that stresses the relationship, such as a loss of income, loss of health, loss of a loved one, etc., that the true face is revealed. 

Sustained passionate love is rare, I think. 

Many individuals, out of fear of being alone, will believe what they want, rather than what is.  Others settle.

[Gator]

None of which changes the fact that in both Russia and Ukraine, age gap relationships are the exception, not the norm, and any FSUW who tells a WM otherwise is fibbing.

Agree, but so what?  RU and UA have a large population, so anything is possible, facilitated by the search power of the Internet.   The father of my ex-wife’s two children was just 5 years younger than me.  I would say he was too old for her, yet she loved him enough to bear two children.
 
I always assert one important key to a large age disparity is whether the man and woman are at the same stage of life.     Are both ready to have children, the primary reason IMO for  marriage?  If yes, go and reproduce.   There will still be many issues to overcome such as an older man accepting the other parents at Saturday’s youth soccer games are making an honest and friendly mistake when referring to his son as his grandson. 
 
Some women may feel compelled to accomplish something prior to children.  Or start something after the wee ones are more able to manage themselves.  Is the man happy with this?  If he is retired, he may not want a working wife.   Reminds me of someone.
 
Based on my experience I believe it best for my situation to be with someone who has accomplished much in life and felt the joy of success again and again.   Someone who wants to pursue new leisures.  Nevertheless, some people who have accomplished much do not know how to hit the "on-off" switch; it has always been on.
 
I just don't see the the need for sanctimonious criticism of personal decisions made by two adults.  I expect such from democrats, e. g. vegans who want meat banned rather than be contented with their own choices.   But from republicans and libertarians?

[Daveman]

...
 
I just don't see the the need for sanctimonious criticism of personal decisions made by two adults.  I expect such from democrats, e. g. vegans who want meat banned rather than be contented with their own choices.   But from republicans and libertarians?

Me either... I'm merely asserting that most vegans, while they may be able to fake beefagasms convincingly, will give of signs of insincerity over the long term with something as purely emotional as passionate steak.

[TheTraveler]

Agree, but so what?  RU and UA have a large population, so anything is possible, facilitated by the search power of the Internet.   The father of my ex-wife’s two children was just 5 years younger than me.  I would say he was too old for her, yet she loved him enough to bear two children.
 
I always assert one important key to a large age disparity is whether the man and woman are at the same stage of life.     Are both ready to have children, the primary reason IMO for  marriage?  If yes, go and reproduce.   There will still be many issues to overcome such as an older man accepting the other parents at Saturday’s youth soccer games are making an honest and friendly mistake when referring to his son as his grandson. 
 
Some women may feel compelled to accomplish something prior to children.  Or start something after the wee ones are more able to manage themselves.  Is the man happy with this?  If he is retired, he may not want a working wife.   Reminds me of someone.
 
Based on my experience I believe it best for my situation to be with someone who has accomplished much in life and felt the joy of success again and again.   Someone who wants to pursue new leisures.  Nevertheless, some people who have accomplished much do not know how to hit the "on-off" switch; it has always been on.
 
I just don't see the the need for sanctimonious criticism of personal decisions made by two adults.  I expect such from democrats, e. g. vegans who want meat banned rather than be contented with their own choices.   But from republicans and libertarians?

great, great stuff, gator.

[Larry1]

I just don't see the the need for sanctimonious criticism of personal decisions ...

"Sanctimonious criticism of personal decisions" should really be the forum's subtitle. 

I expect such from democrats, e. g. vegans who want meat banned rather than be contented with their own choices.   But from republicans and libertarians? 

It would be an interesting exercise to see if there was a link between people's level and frequency of sanctimoniousness and their political beliefs.  One problem with finding this is that sanctimonious people never, ever would admit their are sanctimonious.  They would say, rather, that they are merely pointing out the truth to other people who are wrong, Wrong, WRONG and consequently are less-worthy individuals.  And it seems to really get under their skin when people disagree with them.  I'd say we have a few of them here.

As someone who inclines to the libertarian direction, I'd say few of us like to hector and lecture people about their personal decisions.

[Boethius]

My point was not about age gaps.  It was about lies.  Barring pursuing minors, I personally don't give a damn who marries whom, and I highly doubt GQ does either. 

[Gator]

My point was not about age gaps.  It was about lies.  Barring pursuing minors, I personally don't give a damn who marries whom, and I highly doubt GQ does either.

Are you talking to me?  If so, I referenced you posting "...age gap relationships are the exception, not the norm, and any FSUW who tells a WM otherwise is fibbing."
 
Because you followed Larry, maybe you are addressing him.  However, the connection eludes me.

[Gator]

Boethius, Again you speak for GQ, namely:  " I personally don't give a damn who marries whom, and I highly doubt GQ does either."
 
It is okay to feel that GQ is one of your favorites, and that naturally happens in Internet boards.  However, if you defend GQ I believe you should explain the contradiction between what you write about GQ and what he wrote, namely:
 
 

In all the ranting about GQ ...this thread got off track.  So, I went back to the OP, and GQ's response. .....  I don't think he ever said he is superior, even if he believes it (not making a statement, either way).

I repeat my request that you explain an apparent contradiction. 

Please explain [the contradiction between your opinion of GQ and what GQ wrote as his response to Daveman] :

"The majority of them (yes, not all) are social rejects and old geezers. You can literally see that in their daily postings."

Please help me understand.

[CanadaMan]

Barring pursuing minors, I personally don't give a damn who marries whom, and I highly doubt GQ does either. 

BO, you must have been born attached to the hip of GQ.   

Time and time again you have spoken on his behalf in this thread.

And yet, you do an about face and claim:

"Reply #167 on: February 21,
CM, GQ is reading this thread, and I am not speaking on his behalf."

 

[Boethius]

I am not speaking for him.  I am giving my interpretation of what he has posted, just as have others.  I included him in my response as it is unclear who, exactly, it is that objects to "age disparate" relationships.  Does GQ, given he is readily admits he is in one?
 
GQ certainly is free to correct me, if he so chooses.