Russian girlfriend wants me to send money for her first trip to UK

[Kunstkammer]

This means she has something to hide . . . like a boyfriend or husband.

Or she doesn't.

[Misha]

She is 29 years old. I have offered to visit here but she has been insistent on coming to me for the first meeting. We speak on Skype 3-4 times per week and send emails on a daily basis 1-2 per day.

A woman in her late twenties in Russia is not going to patiently wait for two years while insisting that you not visit her in St. Petersburg, a city with millions of people where she could easily meet you and nobody would ever have to know...

[Kunstkammer]

A woman in her late twenties in Russia is not going to patiently wait for two years while insisting that you not visit her in St. Petersburg, a city with millions of people where she could easily meet you and nobody would ever have to know...

Anecdotal evidence that means nothing - my wife's friend, who lives here in Saint Petersburg, had some internet romance with some guy and was afraid to meet him for over 3 years because she was nervous about it and did truly like him.  Not every person is the same.  And maybe I'm mistaken but I was assuming this girl wasn't 'actively looking for a foreign spouse' so her thought process might be different.

[jone]

There are SOOOOO many women out there who would like to meet you.  I know I will sound like ML for saying this but let me give you a couple of reasons why I disregarded or stopped communicating with a lady:

1.  Chose not to introduce me to her family.  (While I can understand this, it was a significant enough flag that I knew the gal was reluctant or not that into me.)

2.  Chose to meet me at a venue other than her home.

3.  I had one gal who was perfect.  Right up until the time she planned a mutual vacation, but I had to send all of the money to her travel agent.  (Not gonna happen - EVER! - Not until she is Mrs. Jone.)

4.  Kept pushing back a meeting date.

5.  Wanted to go shopping on the second date.

Even with the above 'red flagged' women, I was able to find plenty of women to date.  My gal that I am with introduced me to her family on the fifth date.   She then introduced me to her friends when I had the family's blessing.  While we are still 'discovering' each other, I am more confident in this relationship because none of the blatant rules for meeting were overlooked.

Right now you are enraptured with Skype calls and an internet buddy.  But unless you have money and time to burn, not to mention the emotional investment, you may want to consider all of this advice.  I know Dave says that this can happen.  But, like the Hunger Games,  the Odds will not be in your Favor.

You are staring two red flags before you're even out of the gate.  And all of us on here know what that means.

[Misha]

Anecdotal evidence that means nothing - my wife's friend, who lives here in Saint Petersburg, had some internet romance with some guy and was afraid to meet him for over 3 years because she was nervous about it and did truly like him.  Not every person is the same.  And maybe I'm mistaken but I was assuming this girl wasn't 'actively looking for a foreign spouse' so her thought process might be different.

My rule of thumb was simple: if during the early stages anything odd came up, I would move on. If you have yet to meet somebody and she is already throwing up flags of any type, it is safer to simply continue looking. Why waste your time and energy on something that is likely not to pan out and when you are likely to be used. Yes, there may be exceptions, but they are exceptions for a reason 

[viking]

Lets keep this simple ok? Forget all this visa crap. IF SHE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO VISIT HER THEN MOVE ON. Any woman who is into you, after a few months, would almost insist you come to visit. Period. End of conversation. You are only a few hours away for Pete's sake.

(PS. yes, there are scammers who will drag this on for months if not years to hook you and get money.It's worth a $1000 to spend time on the computer. This is their life, their job if you will.Do you really think you are the only guy she is talking to? Please get real here)

[Patagonie]

She is 29 years old. I have offered to visit here but she has been insistent on coming to me for the first meeting. We speak on Skype 3-4 times per week and send emails on a daily basis 1-2 per day.

The problem starts here : "i have offered to visit here".

With this type of demeanor you are going to be eaten alive by FSU.

Fellow, you should have said : " I am going to see you  in St Pete. Try to propose me a convenient schedule. See how is she answering.

YOu have a pair of balls, you are the one supposed to travel because you are wealthy, and you can easily get a visa in Russia. You are nothing than penpals friends, so you decide, you are the man.

[Shadow]

Let's look at this from one more angle. You are talking to her for 2 years, with a very regular schedule. Somehow (though at this speed you may be dead before it happens) you are planning to spend your life with her.
Yet when she asks for Eur 1000 to get a visa you are freaking out and have to ask the opinion of other people. Most men here would in the two years spend this amount on a woman multiple times.

This leads to some possible situations.
1. You are not serious about her, which is why the amount of money is more than you are willing to risk.
2. The amount is too high for you to risk, in which case you should reconsider the option of any type of international relationship.

You are having a fantasy right now, but it is time to face reality. Reality tells that either you start acting like a man and take some decisions, or give the whole thing up.

[TheTraveler]

so much great advice here to consider, neil.

and one common theme -- not one person here advises you to send money.

just out of curiosity... how did you meet this girl on the net?

[CDW]

Shadow

I think you are wrong in this case.  If a woman whom I never met asks me only £50, I wouldn't risk in sending her if I haven't met her for 2 years, but would risk £500 for a 'failure' meeting.

[Doll]

Calling directly to the dude on the ground at the airport is different than trying to call to talk to a bureaucrat to say "Hey this girl wants to visit me, do you need this for a visa?"

No kidding!
Then he can call the airport.

[Anechka]

Neilh,

If you haven't met her in 2 years and have such hesitations, just tell her you are not interested in meeting her in person (or simply, not interested in her at all).

Everything depends on her financial situation: what does she do that she can't earn the money she needs? What is her profession? What are her expenses? Does she have her own apartment or rent one? Etc...

I'm from saint-Peterburg, I left a few years ago but before leaving I was earning about the same amount in one month. Therefore, I would ask her the questions above if you are serious about her.

[tfcrew]

 " I have offered to visit [her]  but she has been insistent on coming to me for the first meeting." 

This means she has something to hide . . . like a boyfriend or husband.   
 

Very well could be.
Visit her there or else move on.

[Kunstkammer]

Neilh,

If you haven't met her in 2 years and have such hesitations, just tell her you are not interested in meeting her in person (or simply, not interested in her at all).

Everything depends on her financial situation: what does she do that she can't earn the money she needs? What is her profession? What are her expenses? Does she have her own apartment or rent one? Etc...

I'm from saint-Peterburg, I left a few years ago but before leaving I was earning about the same amount in one month. Therefore, I would ask her the questions above if you are serious about her.

Well if she rents an apartment you'd need to know where, renting a 20 meter apartment on Vaska is more expensive than renting a 150 meter apartment is some govno place like Kupchino. 


Can I play "Guess the monthly Expenses" ?


I'm going to say she lives in an owned flat with her mother.


3-4000 on Apartment bills (elevator, yardkeeper, water, radio antenna, electricity etc.)
1500 (averaged) for Fitness House membership (this was a lump some of 18000 at time of contract)
5000 on groceries
1000 on restaurant, cafe, etc. with friends per month
500 on cat food
2000 on gas (if she has a car)
1000 on public transport (if she doesn't)
1500 on Riv Gosh
1-3000 for miscellaneous shopping/expenses.


15,500-18,500 per month.  Bet I'm close.

[Anechka]

There are SOOOOO many women out there who would like to meet you.  I know I will sound like ML for saying this but let me give you a couple of reasons why I disregarded or stopped communicating with a lady:

2.  Chose to meet me at a venue other than her home

3.  I had one gal who was perfect.  Right up until the time she planned a mutual vacation, but I had to send all of the money to her travel agent.  (Not gonna happen - EVER! - Not until she is Mrs. Jone.)

2) hmmm, you know, not everyone in Russia has their own apartments, so called "commun-apartments" (a bunch of strangers living together) still exist, so her living conditions could be the key sometimes...

3) why is that? Just curious.
(Btw, did you split the bills at the restaurants?)

[Anechka]

Well if she rents an apartment you'd need to know where, renting a 20 meter apartment on Vaska is more expensive than renting a 150 meter apartment is some govno place like Kupchino. 


Can I play "Guess the monthly Expenses" ?


I'm going to say she lives in an owned flat with her mother.


3-4000 on Apartment bills (elevator, yardkeeper, water, radio antenna, electricity etc.)
1500 (averaged) for Fitness House membership (this was a lump some of 18000 at time of contract)
5000 on groceries
1000 on restaurant, cafe, etc. with friends per month
500 on cat food
2000 on gas (if she has a car)
1000 on public transport (if she doesn't)
1500 on Riv Gosh
1-3000 for miscellaneous shopping/expenses.


15,500-18,500 per month.  Bet I'm close.

Friends of my family own an apartment for lease in Rybatskoe, it was $1000 a month for a two-room apartment couple of years ago.

Your calculations are a bit off, the prices are really high in spb now, I hear my mom complaining all the time.
1000 on cafes? Are you kidding? I was there last June, average bill for 2 in a nice restaurant is 3000-4000.
1500 in rive gauche? Made me laugh a bit, the prices for cosmetics are 30-40% higher that in the US, what could you buy in sephora for $30 bucks a month?
I'll ask my best friend about gas, since she drives, lst time I paid attention to gas prices there was couple of years ago, it was more than $1.00 a liter., about $5.00 per galloon, so 2000 is around $65.... I think it's how much my husband pays for the full tank in his BMW. I think the unlimited pass for public transportation there costs around 1300 a month...
5000 in groceries could be ok...

You never know where she lives, could be with her parents, could rent a room....

[jone]

2) hmmm, you know, not everyone in Russia has their own apartments, so called "commun-apartments" (a bunch of strangers living together) still exist, so her living conditions could be the key sometimes...

3) why is that? Just curious.
(Btw, did you split the bills at the restaurants?)

Oh, you are so barking up the wrong tree.

You have not been on the scene where you travel to a foreign country to meet someone.  If the woman does not wish to meet you in her home city it is a possible red flag that she does not wish to be seen with you.

As for sending, via wire, a substantial sum to a foreign country to a person who may or may not be a travel agent: Are you nuts?  After one visit?  Price for travel over five thousand dollars?   I actually hired a local attorney in Kyiv to handle my business affairs there.  And she offered to speak directly to the travel agent with the proviso that if the woman did not make the trip the money would be returned.  But neither the travel agent nor the woman would even answer her inquiries when they understood I had local representation.   I hope you are much more responsible with your family funds then you apparently are with mine.

If a woman is not intelligent enough to protect my interests at the early stages of a relationship, what is she going to do when we are further along?  When you go out as a guest of someone, do you order the most expensive thing on the menu?  Chances are that if you do, you will not get invited back.  And they will comment on how boorish you are.

You are very generous with other people's money.  Now put yourself in the shoes of the man and make decisions based on whether you believe someone to be acting in good faith.  This is a perfect example of a woman's (misguided) perspective on what is good faith and what is not good faith.  Why banter with a questionable woman when there are so many honest women out there.  If you can't find them, there are professionals that can help you.

As for the slam on splitting the cost of meals, well, I guess I really don't need to respond to that.  Such an insult is not worth a retort.

[TheTraveler]

Friends of my family own an apartment for lease in Rybatskoe, it was $1000 a month for a two-room apartment couple of years ago.

Your calculations are a bit off, the prices are really high in spb now, I hear my mom complaining all the time.
1000 on cafes? Are you kidding? I was there last June, average bill for 2 in a nice restaurant is 3000-4000.
1500 in rive gauche? Made me laugh a bit, the prices for cosmetics are 30-40% higher that in the US, what could you buy in sephora for $30 bucks a month?
I'll ask my best friend about gas, since she drives, lst time I paid attention to gas prices there was couple of years ago, it was more than $1.00 a liter., about $5.00 per galloon, so 2000 is around $65.... I think it's how much my husband pays for the full tank in his BMW. I think the unlimited pass for public transportation there costs around 1300 a month...
5000 in groceries could be ok...

You never know where she lives, could be with her parents, could rent a room....

peacocking?  lol

[Kunstkammer]

Friends of my family own an apartment for lease in Rybatskoe, it was $1000 a month for a two-room apartment couple of years ago.

Your calculations are a bit off, the prices are really high in spb now, I hear my mom complaining all the time.
1000 on cafes? Are you kidding? I was there last June, average bill for 2 in a nice restaurant is 3000-4000.
1500 in rive gauche? Made me laugh a bit, the prices for cosmetics are 30-40% higher that in the US, what could you buy in sephora for $30 bucks a month?
I'll ask my best friend about gas, since she drives, lst time I paid attention to gas prices there was couple of years ago, it was more than $1.00 a liter., about $5.00 per galloon, so 2000 is around $65.... I think it's how much my husband pays for the full tank in his BMW. I think the unlimited pass for public transportation there costs around 1300 a month...
5000 in groceries could be ok...

You never know where she lives, could be with her parents, could rent a room....

I was just having fun playing 'guess the expenses' but I'm very familiar with the prices in SPb.  I live here, own an apartment on Vaska, and drive here.  And I'm going to disagree with you on 'average price in a restaurant for 2 people being 3-4000 Rubles, unless of course you are buying a couple bottles of wine or lots of drinks... My wife and I eat often at many of the fine places on Rubinshteyna and our bill isn't ever over 2000.  I'd say our average is 1000.


And again Anka, I was talking about average people not those that feel the need to shoehorn 'my husband's BMW' into conversations and bragging about how much they spend on make-up.


Again, I live here.  You are quoting "my friend told me, my friends parents, my mother says, last time I paid attention"


By the way it isn't 'unlimited Public Transport' it is unlimited use on buses with 70 metro rides.  But people don't buy that so much anymore since now there are podporozhnik (http://podorozhnik.spb.ru/) You can even use them on Marshutkas and they never expire.

[Kunstkammer]

peacocking?  lol

конечно, да

[Shadow]

Shadow

I think you are wrong in this case.  If a woman whom I never met asks me only £50, I wouldn't risk in sending her if I haven't met her for 2 years, but would risk £500 for a 'failure' meeting.

If you add the time on SKyp they have spoken for a couple of weeks. They have send around 1000 mails. At least according to the amount of contact the OP describes.
If after 2 years daily contact you can not determine if the woman will take your money and run, you have bigger problems as losing Eur 1000.

[Anechka]

I was just having fun playing 'guess the expenses' but I'm very familiar with the prices in SPb.  I live here, own an apartment on Vaska, and drive here.  And I'm going to disagree with you on 'average price in a restaurant for 2 people being 3-4000 Rubles, unless of course you are buying a couple bottles of wine or lots of drinks... My wife and I eat often at many of the fine places on Rubinshteyna and our bill isn't ever over 2000.  I'd say our average is 1000.


And again Anka, I was talking about average people not those that feel the need to shoehorn 'my husband's BMW' into conversations and bragging about how much they spend on make-up.


Again, I live here.  You are quoting "my friend told me, my friends parents, my mother says, last time I paid attention"


By the way it isn't 'unlimited Public Transport' it is unlimited use on buses with 70 metro rides.  But people don't buy that so much anymore since now there are podporozhnik (http://podorozhnik.spb.ru/) You can even use them on Marshutkas and they never expire.

Sorry, but I never considered BMW a luxurious car, it's a nice, reliable car priced around 35-40k for some basic models (325 or 128). Yes, it's more expensive that Toyota corolla or Honda fit. And the price for gas for a tank was in NY prices that are quite similar to Spb. It usually lasts for 2 weeks...

Well, I quote my friends since my apartment in spb is not for rent (FYI, I don't own an apartment in the downtown, like you, but in "Vesely poselok"). You need to send me the addresses at Rubinshteyna st. since we tend to randomly pick up more expensive places (well, my husband got a food poisoning a few times there, so we are picky). There are a few nice places in Zhokovskogo st, and I loved a pub on the corner of Sadovaya and Fontanka.

 Last question: if you live there, what are you doing on the forum?

[Anechka]

Oh, you are so barking up the wrong tree.

You have not been on the scene where you travel to a foreign country to meet someone.  If the woman does not wish to meet you in her home city it is a possible red flag that she does not wish to be seen with you.

As for sending, via wire, a substantial sum to a foreign country to a person who may or may not be a travel agent: Are you nuts?  After one visit?  Price for travel over five thousand dollars?   I actually hired a local attorney in Kyiv to handle my business affairs there.  And she offered to speak directly to the travel agent with the proviso that if the woman did not make the trip the money would be returned.  But neither the travel agent nor the woman would even answer her inquiries when they understood I had local representation.   I hope you are much more responsible with your family funds then you apparently are with mine.

If a woman is not intelligent enough to protect my interests at the early stages of a relationship, what is she going to do when we are further along?  When you go out as a guest of someone, do you order the most expensive thing on the menu?  Chances are that if you do, you will not get invited back.  And they will comment on how boorish you are.

You are very generous with other people's money.  Now put yourself in the shoes of the man and make decisions based on whether you believe someone to be acting in good faith.  This is a perfect example of a woman's (misguided) perspective on what is good faith and what is not good faith.  Why banter with a questionable woman when there are so many honest women out there.  If you can't find them, there are professionals that can help you.

As for the slam on splitting the cost of meals, well, I guess I really don't need to respond to that.  Such an insult is not worth a retort.

I didn't bark, I simply asked since you hadn't mention the reason why the girl looked like a scammer.
I see nothing wrong in splitting the bills in the restaurant, especially if i'm going iut with a friend (even a male friend), I didn't mean to insult you.

No worries about your money, it's still in your pocket, safe and sound. I didn't even have a thought of spending it. 

[Kunstkammer]

Sorry, but I never considered BMW a luxurious car, it's a nice, reliable car priced around 35-40k for some basic models (325 or 128). Yes, it's more expensive that Toyota corolla or Honda fit. And the price for gas for a tank was in NY prices that are quite similar to Spb. It usually lasts for 2 weeks...

Well, I quote my friends since my apartment in spb is not for rent (FYI, I don't own an apartment in the downtown, like you, but in "Vesely poselok"). You need to send me the addresses at Rubinshteyna st. since we tend to randomly pick up more expensive places (well, my husband got a food poisoning a few times there, so we are picky). There are a few nice places in Zhokovskogo st, and I loved a pub on the corner of Sadovaya and Fontanka.

 Last question: if you live there, what are you doing on the forum?

I'm on this forum to add snarky comments now and then for my own amusement.


Address on Rubinshteyna?  The whole street is famous for its line-up of restaurants from Nevsky to well past where Valdimirskya Metro is the street is full of every kind of restaurant imaginable that on a weekend you need to have a reservation for, if you are going to open a restaurant in SPb, that is where you want it to be.


Zhokovskogo? Really?  I will admit I am a 'foodie.' It is a hobby of myself and my wife to eat in good restaurants, we probably go out to eat 3 times a month.  I can't think of a single restaurant on Zhokovskogo where a meal for 2 would be 3-4000.  Certainly not one where the food or service is worth that, its all mostly cafes, awful sushi chain places, and i think there is a буше there?  Where on earth did you go that cost you 3-4000 RUB for a meal?  I understand why your husband got food poisoning.


Anyways, this is much off topic so that's that. I know this city and the cost of living very well.

[Vaughn]

Lets keep this simple ok? Forget all this visa crap. IF SHE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO VISIT HER THEN MOVE ON. Any woman who is into you, after a few months, would almost insist you come to visit. Period. End of conversation.

Agree wholeheartedly. All the buts, what ifs and maybes are really just entertainment at this stage. Find another woman who'd love to see you
step off a train and into her welcoming hug.
 
Emotions are non-negotiable.