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Author Topic: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...  (Read 101236 times)

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Offline Paulie

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Hi everyone, I met this Ukrainian woman who lives in Istanbul.  We've known one another since July 2012 when I flew her to Miami where her daughter goes to college.  We hit it off and since then I have been to Istanbul going on the 5th time. 

I am in need of advice because I do not understand the culture of how Russian women want and need to be taken care of.  We are now talking about her moving to the US to be with me. 

She owns her own business as a sports instructor for children.  She makes a living, has a decent rental apartment and is basically quite independent.  We both have grown to love one another. 

She said she will have to give up her life in Istanbul to be with me, which I totally understand.  She makes the equivalent of $5,000 to $7,000 monthly.  Of that, about $3,000 supports her daughter's education.  I do not have an issue with supporting that and would gladly give her $5,000 monthly.  Since she would live with me, there would be no rent or food expenses, so the $5K would take care of her needs.  Her daughter graduates March 2014 and the $3,000 would go away.  She would still have the $5,000.  Furthermore, there is a chance she would start her business her in Northern California. 

The big problem I have is that she wants more security than that, stating that if I were to tell her to leave, she would be left in the street, her business and life gone in Istanbul and no where to turn.  I assured her that would not happen. 

The security she wants is for me to buy her an apartment and put it in her name as her security.  I am easily thinking this would cost at least $100,000 if I were to do that.  I said no. 

I do understand her situation and said she should come spend two months with me in the US and then we can see if there is a possibility for marriage that I would add her to my trust and ensure that if anything happened the trust would continue to pay the mortgage, taxes and insurance on the house.  I would even give her an income from the trust.  This would continue as long as she is alive.  After she passes, the house stays with the trust.   

I think I am being more than reasonable, even generous, maybe even crazy.  I am wondering if this is a 'conniver.'  She HAS told me that Russian women are taken care of like this AND even Turkish men do it. 

Can this group chime in on the issue, please?

I appreciate it, thanks.  Paul

Offline Boethius

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 09:08:29 PM »
My two cents is, that while security is necessary, a relationship built on money is not a relationship at all.  She does not yet trust you.   I can't say it won't happen, but you're not there yet.
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 09:17:16 PM »
Boethius, I appreciate your comment.  I think the trust issue is a big one for her.  She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security.  I do not wish to pay the price for that one. 

So far to date, I have helped her financially.  I pay for all of her (and her daughter's) travel; I've given her a computer, bought clothing for her and have given her about $5,000 towards her miscellaneous expenses. 

I have taken care of my last wife - she never worked and her divorce settlement was quite hefty.  So, I am not unused to taking care of a woman. 

BUT, your comment makes sense.  This should not be about money and it is starting to look like it.  Thanks again! 

Offline ML

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 09:25:09 PM »
Reminds me of a situation right here in USA.  An acquaintance of mine living in LA was dating a quite attractive gal in her mid 30s.  She had gotten several small parts in movies and was still hoping to become a major actress.  Was a fairly successful real estate agent to keep food on the table.

She proposed to my acquaintance that they buy a house together . . . but that the deed be only in her name !!!!!

He bid her goodbye.

Admittedly this was a little different situation than the Istanbul woman, because she would be giving up a lot to come here.

For me, I think the current situation points out that it may not be wise to go after a woman who has to give up too much to come to USA. 

Yes, they all give up family, friends and familiar surroundings . . . but a successful business moves it too far to be acceptable to either party.

There are a mind boggling number of variables that need to be screened by the man/woman in this venture; and the earlier this is performed, the less the potential troubles and heartaches that develop down the road.

For many, many potential mates; the best route is just to pass on them immediately or ASAP when it becomes clear there are too  many obstacles.  And, we all (or most all) realize these obstacles increase in geometric formulation when international match ups are attempted.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:31:05 PM by ML »
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Offline tfcrew

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 09:26:04 PM »
A six figure woman is used to that.
So best be a six figure guy.

Other than that they are women just like anywhere.
Everybody's milage varies.

If she has already traveled to the USA how was that visa done?

Quote
We've known one another since July 2012 when I flew her to Miami
That's really not all that long.
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Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 09:39:32 PM »
@tfcrew - years ago she obtained a Turkish passport.  I like your thoughts about six figure.  I would not have an issue with spending $100,000.  If we are married, it should be joint property. 

I think that you are also right - it has not been that long.  We need to build trust.  She is also about 12 months out of a marriage that while the ex was a nice man and 'waited on her hand and foot,' he failed the marriage financially. 

She does want to come to the US as her daughter lives in Miami and will stay in the US. 

While I have a decent income from my investments, I went ahead and secured a consulting position to add another six figures to my income.  She knows this and knows she won't have to work. 

I think she is still dealing with the last marriage issues and is projecting them onto this relationship. 

Thanks for your thoughts! Paul
 

Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 09:43:36 PM »
@ML - thank you for your comments; your points are well taken.  I am flying to Istanbul next week to talk to her directly as opposed to the phone or Skype. 

This trip will tell me if we have a common ground. 

You are right about obstacles - if it takes TOO much work, then it is not worth pursuing. 

Offline viking

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 09:47:13 PM »
Right now you are just boy/girl friend. To suggest what she wants is not healthy for a relationship. Should it reach a point where you actually propose it might then be a different story where a prenup ( especially for you) would be appropriate. This is not an inexpensive woman by any stretch. I cannot speak for Turkey, but her income for a Russian is quite large. Huge even. I am surprised she does not own her own flat. Are you sure about these numbers? It is obvious to her that you have some deep pockets and she may be taking advantage of that. Six trips in about 6 months is a lot, which only goes to show you are not locked into social security yet. Most men will not show this kind of wealth until much further along in the relationship. Just to prevent this kind of situation from happening. I would slow down a bit here until you are on better footing. Remember that many RW, as an example, who might be very professional such as a doctor, leave all and give up all,  find work as a sales person in Macy's and do not demand this type of security, all to be with their loved one.
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Viking: But you still need to walk along the beach to find it.

Offline JayH

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 09:58:54 PM »
Paulie--I have no problem with your situation and approach. Some good advice and raising of the issues above.
I think a water-tight pre-nup is needed-- it puts specifics on the table both ways and spells out the extent of your risk.  It also gives her the very necessary security that she is seeking-- in my view--perfectly reasonably. Guys on forums get preoccupied with the horror stories and forget the good part potential-- and become more interested in saving a dollar.
If your positions were reversed and it was you giving up your world-- you would want to be comfortable about the future.
Get the business part(pre-nup) done and in place and get back to focussing the reason for the relationship.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BillyB

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 10:04:27 PM »
She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security. 


Is that your fault? You get the blame and you need to give a $100,000 to prove you're trustworthy? That means she doesn't trust you. Too many options out there. Say goodbye to this one.


There are plenty of good women out there to be messing with this one. Good women don't ask for money and gifts. $100,000 may seem like an easy way to get a woman but try to woman's heart without your money and you'll probably will find a real gem that deserves all you have to give.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 10:26:24 PM by BillyB »
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Offline TheTraveler

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 10:06:13 PM »

The security she wants is for me to buy her an apartment and put it in her name as her security.  I am easily thinking this would cost at least $100,000 if I were to do that.


i'd dump her so hard she'd bounce.

Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 10:13:52 PM »
@ JayH & Viking (and all the others).  You don't know how much I appreciate your comments.  I've been talking with friends, relatives and business associates and since they do not understand this, they are as much in the dark as I have been. 

Thank you, thank you for helping me to get a perspective on this.  At this point unless my girl is willing to compromise and collaborate, there is not much I can do. 

Viking - my girlfriend is a two time National Gymnastic champion and former engineer.  She is quite intelligent, quite strong minded and knows what she wants and through her work has been able to make a good living in Istanbul.

She doesn't own a flat because she is sacrificing to help her 23 year old daughter through school in Florida. 

I have thought about her knowledge of my financial position.  She is aware of my business success.  We share this because of her success in business. 

However, you are right, I need to slow this down.  To JayH's point AND yours, I will need a 'water-tight' pre-nup.  The issue will be discussed when I go to Istanbul next week.  She might not even KNOW what a pre-nup is.  But at this point I feel and believe it is time for us to talk the 'business' side of this lovely relationship.  (It has been a dream so far...but I am still leary.) 

I do not mind building something with her and sharing it through short and long term goals.  If she wants security, I feel she will have to get to a point of 'leap of faith' with me that we can do it together.  Challenge is that she is in a good spot being independently successful. 

And Viking, I DO understand your comment " that many RW, as an example, who might be very professional such as a doctor, leave all and give up all,  find work as a sales person in Macy's and do not demand this type of security, all to be with their loved one."  She could build her business here within a year. 

Anyway, thanks again!

 

Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 10:18:00 PM »
Yea, I am thinking of giving her the 'heave ho.'  I will go to see her one more time (already bought the tickets) and talk face to face and lay it ALL on the line. 

You are ALL right - this is about trust.  And I don't think she has that in her given that she probably has to process this 15 year marriage. 

Your comments have been extremely helpful.  I am feeling some resolution is coming. 

Offline jone

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2013, 12:43:18 AM »
Yea, I am thinking of giving her the 'heave ho.'  I will go to see her one more time (already bought the tickets) and talk face to face and lay it ALL on the line. 

You are ALL right - this is about trust.  And I don't think she has that in her given that she probably has to process this 15 year marriage. 

Your comments have been extremely helpful.  I am feeling some resolution is coming.

You are not thinking straight.  You have a nice relationship.  How is she going to move to Miami without your help?   If she is just out of another relationship, she is not emotionally ready to really come through for you.  Is she gonna try and trade up for someone better?  I don't think so.  Guys with your pockets aren't easy to come by.  (I never disclose to a woman I am considering my true financial position. - not until I am ready to give them a long term commitment that involves a ring.  You are NOT there yet.)

You don't have to give her the heave/ho.  Instead, slow things down.  Invite her to come to the US for short periods. Make you her benefactor that gets her here to see her daughter and maybe help out a little.  All without committing.  KEEP YOUR MONEY IN YOUR POCKET.

She sounds strong willed, but in the face of not being able to see her daughter, I would suggest that she will be much more amenable to visiting, without the commitment until her daughter is out of school.

Then, if she wants to come here and live here, find her similar employment.  It is quite easy if you are a known world athlete to be able to attract students from parents with deep pockets. 

I really shouldn't have to spell this out for you.  She can come to the US under the idea of coaching.  Without your 'financial' commitment.  If you are meant to be together as a couple, then be together as a couple.  Work the marriage thing out later. 

Your description of the former husband is not too encouraging with respect to how she describes him.  If you can't see that she is trying to put you in the stand up position while she has the greatest need for cash outlay of her life, at this time, and then will use that to barter her future existence, then you aren't quite the consultant you make yourself out to be.  This too shall pass.  Let it.

If there is love there, be a rock. But commit to nothing except possibly helping with travel expenses as you are now.

Good luck.  And who are we to tell you what to do?
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Belvis

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2013, 01:26:11 AM »
Looks like more a business negotiations than building a relationship. I can understand her mind but I'm pretty sure the 100 k$ expenditure  will not buy her loyality for long time.

Offline Paulie

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She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 01:30:59 AM »
@Jone - You have been very helpful.  I DO appreciate your input even though I do not know you.  That is why I sought out advice on this matter.  Thankfully I found it here. 

And you ARE right - I am not thinking straight.  I have family and friends all around me trying to tell me I have a 'gold-digger.' 

I do have a nice relationship.  She has her moments, her expectations of what a man should do for her are higher than anything I've ever experienced.  She is a high class lady living under tough circumstances right now. 

Your point about her not thinking straight is also correct.  Her ex is still trying to get her back.  And because she is such a 'softy' she can't tell him to take a hike.  She just doesn't see how he hurt her so. 

Perhaps you are right about her daughter too.  Maybe it is best that I wait until she is out of school.  Although I am happy to help her here.  I think this is workable.

Again, I appreciate your kind thoughts.  Sometimes I need to hear it from others. 

All the best to you,

Paul



Offline Fashionista

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 01:46:26 AM »


Can this group chime in on the issue, please?

I appreciate it, thanks.  Paul

Well, I can't speak for all Russian women, but I think if she liked you for you, she would just move in with you for free and take it from there. Look at it this way: the $100000 is the measure of how much she dislikes you.   8)
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Offline Patagonie

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 02:39:11 AM »
Boethius, I appreciate your comment.  I think the trust issue is a big one for her.  She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security.  I do not wish to pay the price for that one. 

So far to date, I have helped her financially.  I pay for all of her (and her daughter's) travel; I've given her a computer, bought clothing for her and have given her about $5,000 towards her miscellaneous expenses. 

I have taken care of my last wife - she never worked and her divorce settlement was quite hefty.  So, I am not unused to taking care of a woman. 

BUT, your comment makes sense.  This should not be about money and it is starting to look like it.  Thanks again!

This is generosity bad rewarded --> now she is asking and appartment on her name.
With such income (her), knowing that she paid 0 $ being with you she SHOULD have helped you financially.
Fellow tell me if she has open her wallet ONE time ?
You have been TOO generous and you have also showed her how deep is your wallet that now she is scheduling an ROI (return on investissement).
You are of  course GUILTY  for a large part, of this situation. If you show to a lady that money is not a concern for you guess what....

Many FSU women are TRANSACTIONAL, a concept i understand but personnaly i would stay away from any woman who would try to make me a transaction and especially before she moves. Transactional women are materialistic, not my cup of tea.

Your woman makes an high income, her daughter is barely an adult, she can find a job without any problem.
Which PROOFS have you of her suffering in the in the past from problems of money because of her previous husband ?

Rather than push this relationship which is very  recent, i would slow down a little bit, and AVOID any proposition of commitement for the moment. Let you some time to think about.
"I think I am being more than reasonable, even generous, maybe even crazy.  I am wondering if this is a 'conniver.'  She HAS told me that Russian women are taken care of like this AND even Turkish men do it."
If you are writing  this it shows that you are making some things that you don't really want to do. You are working OUTSIDE your personnality which is the emotion experienced by people who are manipulated.

if " She has her moments, her expectations of what a man should do for her are higher than anything I've ever experienced." it is time to show her how high are YOUR expectations. 


Guy it is time to REALLY slow down and stop you to "fantasy". "Her ex is still trying to get her back.  And because she is such a 'softy' she can't tell him to take a hike.  She just doesn't see how he hurt her so".
She didn't finish her mourny of this guy. Culturally FSU ladies throw to the abyss men they have forgotten.


You need to understand that the money you have displayed is not something which has worked positively for your relationship, it has just helped you to dig your own grave, remember this for the next time.
 Now the point is that you don't know if she is interested in you for you or for your money, you get it ?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 03:07:28 AM by Patagonie »
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Offline GoodOlBoy

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 05:25:23 AM »
i'd dump her so hard she'd bounce.

Exactly!

Guy, there is more than a handful of those types (mercenary RW) living right here in Sunny Isles Beach. Of course they are alone and nobody wants them, so they are available for dating. :rolleyes:

I've gotta ask.....There are a ton of nice Russian ladies available for dating and marriage in the FSU, why do you want this lady so badly?

What positive qualities does she possess that makes you want to excuse (look the other way) her bizarre relationship demands?
 
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:30:10 AM by GoodOlBoy »
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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 06:49:48 AM »
Quote
Can this group chime in on the issue, please?

I appreciate it, thanks.  Paul



Well, I can't speak for all Russian women, but I think if she liked you for you, she would just move in with you for free and take it from there. Look at it this way: the $100000 is the measure of how much she dislikes you.   8)

Fashionista hit it on head.

But let's look at what this means.
Let's say that you were the one who had to give up everything you have right now and you had  to move to Turkie to be with her. She would be supporting you, and the chances of you finding any kind of reasonable career, friends  or even  your way to local market are slim to none as you can't speak the language well. So you would be totally dependent on her for everything and would be starting with nothing but your feelings for her. But she tells you everything will be ok, because she is not going to let anything happen to you. Do you believe her? So the question is...

Would you do it?



as we get older and more mature, we find things that make us happy in our daily lives. A successfull business is part of who she is, not just someplace to go for 8 hours a day.  She has strong ties to that and people involved in it.
So, is asking her to give up what makes her who she is going to be worth it for her? Do you have what it takes to fill in all the blanks that will be made when she moves to you and leaves everything behind?

How much would it take for you to leave everything behind and start over in  a strange and foreign land with no skill's and no contacts?
she has told you what her price is.
seems like she is just being straight with you.



Offline Patagonie

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 06:53:56 AM »
Boethius, I appreciate your comment.  I think the trust issue is a big one for her.  She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security.  I do not wish to pay the price for that one. 

So far to date, I have helped her financially.  I pay for all of her (and her daughter's) travel; I've given her a computer, bought clothing for her and have given her about $5,000 towards her miscellaneous expenses. 

I have taken care of my last wife - she never worked and her divorce settlement was quite hefty.  So, I am not unused to taking care of a woman. 

BUT, your comment makes sense.  This should not be about money and it is starting to look like it.  Thanks again!
I missed this one.
It is time to open your parachute :
she is divorced for 12 months only ?
"Boethius, I appreciate your comment.  I think the trust issue is a big one for her.  She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security." Do you really believe this ?
She was really burned and she pays 3000 $ just for her daughter and she makes between 5 and 7000 $ per month ?
You kid us. Who owns the sportive club ? It is time to be a little more curious and stop to swallow everything. 

"She is a high class lady living under tough circumstances right now." Do you really think that all OPs reading this are idiots ? TOUGH ? You really need to live a tough life i think to understand what is tough and see what is the life in FSU for 80 % of people (average wage under 300-500 $ depending the country and the city).
It seems to be that some OPs don't have the same meaning of "high class lady".

"So far to date, I have helped her financially.  I pay for all of her (and her daughter's) travel; I've given her a computer, bought clothing for her and have given her about $5,000 towards her miscellaneous expenses.  '
Suggar daddy. Do you know what is a sugar daddy ?
Why do you pay for her daughter ? Suggar daddy.
Why do you give her  5000 $ ? Suggar daddy
So how many $ worth did she get ? 10000, 15000 or 20000 $ in four trips ? It is not going to stop for sure. She would be a fool.
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Online GQBlues

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 07:41:46 AM »
...Can this group chime in on the issue, please?

I appreciate it, thanks.  Paul


Well, take heart. I can think off at least 2 members who are handling/handle their respective relationship in that fashion and they think of themselves as successful and experts about FSU relationships. The two I can think off are at least 20 years your senior so that may have something to do with it.

In the end, if you can't distinguish right from wrong about your situation at your age - not sure what anyone can say to you that you'd see the light...
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Offline Misha

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 07:57:09 AM »
Of that, about $3,000 supports her daughter's education.  I do not have an issue with supporting that and would gladly give her $5,000 monthly.  Since she would live with me, there would be no rent or food expenses, so the $5K would take care of her needs.  Her daughter graduates March 2014 and the $3,000 would go away.


No it won't as there shall be invariably some other reason why her daughter will need the money. Let's see if I understand this correctly: you would have to buy her an apartment as a "guarantee" and even if you get married and were living together, you would still have to pay her a salary of $5,000 per month and then another $3,000 for her daughter, which, trust me, would go on indefinitely?!?

Offline Anechka

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 08:11:09 AM »
Paulie, what about a prenup agreement where all of the above is specified?

Offline Gator

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Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 08:51:36 AM »
  Look at it this way: the $100000 is the measure of how much she dislikes you.   8)

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