Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...

[Anotherkiwi]

Hi ML,

Yes, I know the anguish you speak of.  Honestly, I am back in therapy to deal with this.  On my wall is a list of issues that tell me what I need to know.  My children and my dear friends tell me the same thing you say.  I am back here to finally grapple with cutting loose.  Really, I am.  This is beyond heart wrenching. 

I will look for 'Blue Angel' and watch it.  Thanks for bringing this to my attention. 

ML, I know what I must do. I know if I do not, I will DIE an early death.   

Once again, I appreciate your candor. 

Paul

Paul, you wrote very early on that you have heart disease.  Unless you are the biggest submissive in history, this woman is so wrong for you that you need proper psychiatric care, not just medical or therapy, for putting yourself through this torture.  I don't care how much you love this woman - don't you realise that she is trying to set herself up to kill you through stress and anxiety, even if she doesn't mean to?
 
Why on earth do you insist on trying to let her by grovelling at her feet (no matter how pretty they are) over every tiny detail?  I'm honestly worried that this thread will never die because you will already have done so.

[Shadow]

First of all I am sorry to hear about the battles with cancer, and I wish the both of you the best. Having lost both my parents to it, I am all aware of what the effects can be.

Paulie it has been ovious from the start that you are well off and can afford a high maintenance woman. No problem with that.
However there is a difference between a true relationship with a hign maintenance woman and getting leeched upon. If she has such demands before marriage, it will not become better afterwards and I have to suspect her goal is to obtain as much of your wealth as possible. In a true relationship the monetary arrangements would be secondary and not be a major cause of stress.
If you manage to move on I would advise you to look in the large cities like Kiev or Moscow. This because there will be women there who are already familiar with a high lifestyle and will not see it as a reason to get as much out of it as possible.

Remeber that if you feel a relationship needs a huge effort and causes a lot of stress, it is very likely not going to turn out well.

[Gator]

Paulie,
 
Please give her up!   She does not love you, and she never will.  If a woman loves you, she will want to be with you even if there is some risk. 
 
You have eliminated her risk.   The deal you described for a jointly owned home would be a good deal for her.   Yet, she said it was not enough.   
 
She has failed every litmus test.   Aren't you out of litmus paper by now?
 
Start over and find that special someone.  The special woman will require 33% of the work you are now doing, and you will feel 1000% better.
 
Your children and friends met her when she visited you?   Yes?  Your children and friends worry about your happiness and health.  We read what they said.   Please listen to them if not to us.
 
 

[missAmeno]

Paul, love should bring happiness, not misery.

THE PROBLEM
I am still experiencing problems in two key areas - 1) her concept of how she wants to be supported financially 2) her often misguided ideas about love, marriage and relationships.  Her idea is, in her words 'traditional' in that she feels a man should take care of a woman.  I have no problem with that: I have taken care of the women I lived with.  BUT, a key phrase is 'creating a working relationship.'  She seems to lack that ability because she is stubborn.

Don't be silly. 'Take care' doesn't equal to money. 'Take care' means provide necessary for the health, welfare and protection. Bare in mind in healthy relationship taking care goes both ways. She should be taking care of you too!

I can not figure out how in concept of being traditional came in expectation of $x monthly allowance and a house with a title in her name only. Isn't in traditional concept money kept in one pot and that pot belongs to family?

In describing her ideal of a relationship, she uses words like  'noble,' 'generous,' and 'sacrificial' to describe what she expects from a man.  She wants a man to 'win her.'

Oh dear, it looks like her and me were reading same type of books in early teen years.   Just she forgot to mention that in such ideal of a relationship woman will be loving, caring, supportive, loyal, dedicated, etc. and all of that regardless of the size of man's wallet.

She DOES have the ability to make money with her talents as a gymnastic trainer

Yes, she does. You are prove of that. Sorry for sarcasm but you need wake-up call.

Look, I understand it is frightening to move to different country and start everything from beginning. Striking financial deal with some guaranteed monthly allowances/house is not the way to deal with it. There must be trust to each other. And by the way you two negotiating finances in case of break up only shows she doesn't trust you and she doesn't believe your relationship will succeed. 

Honestly, I am hoping a light bulb goes off in her head where she will realize just what IS important.
... I am hoping the changes she will go through, she might try to go deeper into her soul to understand that she has a good man by her side.

You are building relationship on a hope she will finally understand something and change somehow. Please, wake up. Do not put yourself and your family through this. You deserve better. First, people seldom change. Second, even when they change they are seldom change the way we want them to change (more often it gets worse than better). Third, love yourself enough to walk away from someone who fails to treat you with love and respect that you deserve.

It is not easy to walk away specially from those who we love. And unfortunately we sometimes do fall in love with a wrong person. You can stay with her, hope for change, try to suppress your disappointments, lie yourself that this is somehow normal and exists in every relationship. Or you can walk away, it will not be easy but then you have a chance to meet someone one day who will love you for who you are, who will not care in whose name is title of the house, who will support you, who will want to make you happy and be happy just because she is with you.

[Paulie]

Hi,

Thank you everyone for your kind and supportive comments.  I will respond at greater length this week. 

Best wishes,

Paul

[flitabout62]

I have been helping her financially over the last year, paying for her travel and giving her money.  Her business is not doing well financially, so I offered to help.  Given my income, it has not been an issue. 

THE PROBLEM

HER RESPONSE
1) "You offer me nothing." (This comment led to a monumental argument; more about this later.)
2)  She wanted me to put the title in her name only.  (I told her the only possible way that will happen is after we together spend years building a NEW financial base.  I will not use funds from what I built in the past.  Nor, will I allow her to pass on my money to her daughter.) 

Paul

Paul,
No one here will ever understand this women better than you.  You are living these experiences. In my opinion, she seems like a very bright women who is very used to dealing with, what I think from description of her negotiating, is a bit of a cutthroat zero sum gain mentality of business.  Especially at the small and medium sized business arena. 
Do you plan on marrying her? Do you think you have a bonafide relationship?   From everything you've been gracious enough to tell us, you seem to be a good and generous guy who's in a difficult situation.  The question I have: does she see you as a good and generous guy?    If not, then why spend any more time with her? I would think that unrequited Love was only in novels? 
-flit

[fathertime]

Hey Paulie, I can't figure out why on earth you would still be with this lady...the negative traits you describe would annoy me so much more than the positives...Hey if you want to live like this then yeah marry the lady...but I would sure would not expect ANY real changes for the better..if anything she will probably become more difficult...NO WAY!! MOVE ON, and see what else is out there.


Fathertime! 

[Ooooops]

wrong thread, sorry

[2tallbill]

Hi,

Thank you everyone for your kind and supportive comments.  I will respond at greater length this week. 

Best wishes,

Paul

Paul, MissA and Gator have pointed out that you are chasing the wrong girl.
I have found myself in a situation where I was chasing the wrong girl too.


So now you need a pep talk. Forget about her. There are millions of unmarried
FSUW who are equally pretty and intelligent as the girl you have been pursuing.


There is a perfect future Mrs Paulie out there. Unfortunately you don't know
where she is. So you need to spend your efforts in finding Mrs Paulie.
There is no better way to forget an old Girl friend than spending time in a
new GF's arms.


You have just eliminated one girl who is not the future Mrs Paulie, now
you need to write a hundred girls ruthlessly sorting out girls who are not
what you seek. Just as ruthlessly you need to eliminate girls who are looking
for somebody who is not you.


I have been in your situation. I was emotionally devastated. But I didn't
give up. I kept looking and kept seeking.


Drop her, take some time off and get your head back to finding the future
Mrs Paulie, she is out there waiting for you to find her!




Udachi !


Bill

[Patagonie]

Hi Everyone,

I am sorry for not coming back to this site much sooner.  I have had a lot going on since my last post.  But, there is no excuse for not being here, especially given your kindness to me. 

MY UPDATE
Most important at this moment is dealing with my older son's (27) cancer.  He has a stubborn case of Stage II Hodgkin's Lymphoma.  He's been trying to rid himself of it since February.  We are all hoping for the best.
SORRY FOR THIS BAD NEWS

As for my girlfriend in Istanbul, I am still at it with her.  Honestly, it has been one heck of a ride for me.  I truly love this woman and I continually deal with it.  I am not a glutton for punishment, trust me. 

Since my last post, we have traveled back and forth several times.  Over the summer she was in San Francisco for two months.  She would have stayed longer, but found out her mom has pancreatic cancer and had to go to Istanbul, then Ukraine, then to Moscow.  Her mom is dying and this is her focus.  So, we are both dealing with cancer in the family. 
DISEASES GATHER YOU FOR A WHILE.

During her time with me, we had wonderful moments with one exception where we had a tiff over an issue that she responded to poorly.  I could have responded better myself.

I have been helping her financially over the last year, paying for her travel and giving her money.  Her business is not doing well financially, so I offered to help.  Given my income, it has not been an issue. 
IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG WITH YOUR MONEY.


THE PROBLEM
I am still experiencing problems in two key areas - 1) her concept of how she wants to be supported financially 2) her often misguided ideas about love, marriage and relationships.  Her idea is, in her words 'traditional' in that she feels a man should take care of a woman.  I have no problem with that: I have taken care of the women I lived with.  BUT, a key phrase is 'creating a working relationship.'  She seems to lack that ability because she is stubborn. 
STUBBORN, AS MANY EXPERIENCED IS NOT AN ONLY PERSONAL FEATURE, BUT ALSO A CULTURAL ONE.

Over the last 18 months I have enjoyed many precious moments with her.  But there are moments she cancels it all out when she becomes scornful and critical.
I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER SHARE TIME WITH A SCORNFUL RELATIVE, IT IS CLEAR THAT IS A BIG NO NO FOR ME, CONSIDERING A LTR. I CAN HANDLE A CRITICAL WOMAN, BECAUSE WHAT I DO CAN BE CRITICIZED AND I ACCEPT IT. I ACCEPT IT BECAUSE MY PARTNER HAS TO EXPRESS HERSELF AND I HAVE ALSO SOME THINGS SHE WANTS ME TO MODIFY. MY TASK IS FOR A PART TO MAKE SOME AMELIORATION TO BE A BETTER MAN AND A BETTER BELOVED. I HAVE SOME DOUBT THAT CRITICS IN YOUR GIRLFRIENDS' MOUTH ARE ALL TIME DONE IN THE WAY TO IMPROVE YOU BUT MORE TO FLAME YOU, WHICH IS (FOR ME) NOT ACCEPTABLE.
 (We've discussed this and she knows how I feel about it.)  In a word, my girlfriend is a 'perfectionist.'  I too have had these tendencies but learned to let go of it.  She also has a negative streak, can be hard to please, can be demanding and objectionable.  I am always looking at the bright side of life. 
SINCE I HAVE FOUND A POSITIVE, MERRY WOMAN, COMPARE TO ALL PREVIOUS AW (DEPRESSIVE, NEGATIVE, ALWAYS HAVING A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE OR SOMETHING), I CAN TELL YOU THAT IS A HUGE IMPROVEMENT. IN FACT I THINK IT TELLS MORE ABOUT ME AND WHAT I HAVE DECIDED TO NOT ACCEPT THAN ABOUT GIRLS.

So, why am I with this woman you might wonder?  When she is kind, she can be the sweetest person, fun, entertaining, intellectual, humorous, silly,  and a wonderful lover.   

However, she has an idealistic view of how a man should be in relationship.   Or maybe I am not her type.
THIS TYPE OF IDEAL IS JUST A WAY TO MANIPULATE YOU, IT IS ONLY A PSYCHOLOGICAL PRESSURE.
 In describing her ideal of a relationship, she uses words like  'noble,' 'generous,' and 'sacrificial' to describe what she expects from a man.
She wants a man to 'win her.'
YOU ARE THE PRICE GUY, NOT HER ! HER TIME HAS GONE ! YOU ARE THE PRICE, NOT HER, THERE ARE PLENTY, BELIEVE ME, PLENTY GIRLS YOUNGER, MORE GORGEOUS AND NICER WHO WAIT YOU.
 (As for me, I want to be accepted for me: just a down-to-earth and humble person.)   

In October, I flew out to help with her dying mom.  Before I went, I spent three weeks studying pancreatic cancer with the intent of helping the family understand how to deal with it.  Her mom opted not to do any type of cancer therapy, so I decided to help in other ways through homeopathy.  It was  the top 10 most stressful five weeks I endured.  My point is that I don't think she get how much stress this caused ME.  THIS WAS VERY GENEROUS ABOUT YOU, BUT PERHAPS IT IS NOT YOUR ROLE.

WHAT I OFFERED
While I was there, I mentioned (obviously the wrong time to do this) that we should consider being together.  She said I was being abstract and needed something concrete.  So, while she was attending to her mom, I spent a day looking at my financial position and came up with an idea and presented it to her. 

Before I share the details, the context of my thinking was that she would keep her business in Istanbul, while moving to the US.  We both thought she could run the business from the US, with her traveling back occasionally.  (Now that she is in Ukraine attending to her mom who is close to dying, I believe it would not be possible for her to run her business from a distance:  her business is suffering without her there.)

My starting point offered to give her $2K cash a month, lease her a new car, cover medical, car insurance, phone, food, etc.  Essentially, she would not have any expenses.   Perhaps $2K is not much, but it is a beginning.  I would also, after a period of 3-6 months of getting adjusted, offer to help her establish her business here in the US.  She DOES have the ability to make money with her talents as a gymnastic trainer.
THE PITFALL HERE IS THAT SHE WILL BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE READY TO PUT A LOT OF CASH IN A BUSINESS WHICH BELONG TO HER. THIS IS HERE THE TRAP.
HELP HER TO FIND A JOB IN GYMNASTIC YES, BUT NO MORE.

She has a concern about housing, especially if we break up.  So, I came up with a couple of ideas. - 1) She sells the two apartments she has in Ukraine.  She could likely get between, $100-140K.  I would put up equal cash and we would buy a place for cash together.  The title would be (50/50) in her name and mine, in the name of my trust.  I said if I die before her, she could stay in the home until she dies and then the proceeds from the sale would go half to her daughter, the remaining half back to my estate for my children. OR, 2) She could use her money to buy a place in her and her daughter's name.  I would buy a house for cash and put it in my trust.  If I die, she could stay in it until she dies, the house remaining in the trust for my children. 

If we would divorce,
WHY WOULD YOU GET MARRIED ? IF SHE CAN COME BACK AND FORTH AND STAY WITHOUTH BEING MARRIED IT WILL BE BETTER FOR YOU, YOU WOULD AVOID TO BE CLEANED BY THE JUDGE IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG. ALL YOUR PLANS, EXPLAINED HERE, WILL HAVE LITTLE EFFECTS IN CASE OF DIVORCE WHEN THE JUDGE WILL PUT HIS NOSE IN IT, DEPENDING OF THE STATE YOU ARE (I CAN BE WRONG ABOUT THIS IN CASE OF PRENUP BUT WITH THIS WOMEN IT IS LIKELY YOU HAVE TO EXPECT A LOT OF FIGHT AROUND THIS TOPIC)
 in either #1 or #2, then she could stay in the property until she dies, with my estate keeping my initial investment for my kids. 

HER RESPONSE
1) "You offer me nothing." (This comment led to a monumental argument; more about this later.)
2)  She wanted me to put the title in her name only.  (I told her the only possible way that will happen is after we together spend years building a NEW financial base.  I will not use funds from what I built in the past.  Nor, will I allow her to pass on my money to her daughter.) 
I THINK YOU NEED TO KICK HER ASS. YOU HAVE INHERITED OF THIS WESTERN DEMEANOR TO BARGAIN AND BARGAIN TILL YOU PLEASE TO A WOMAN. WITH THIS ONE IT WOULD BE ENDLESS BECAUSE SHE HAS A DISTORTED IMAGE OF HERSELF (OR TO EXPLAIN IT AN OTHER WAY : SHE KEPT THE SAME IMAGE OF HER TWENTIES NOT CORRECTING BY THE LESSON OF LIVE). IT WILL BE ENDLESS TILL YOU KICK HER ASS BY SAYING "THAT'S IT, YOU LIKE OR DON'T LIKE (MEANING : "YOU TAKE OR YOUR LEAVE FOR YOUR LOSS").
YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WIN A WOMAN, ENTIRELY, IF YOU ARE NOT READY, MINIMUM ONE TIME, TO LOOSE THE RELATIONSHIP. TO BE DEPENDANT SCREWS UP ALL YOUR FRAME AND LET HER THE CONTROL, WHICH SHE FEELS IT, AND WITH HER EXPERIENCE, SHE KNOWS HOW TO USE IT.

WHERE WE ARE NOW
She is in Ukraine taking care of her mom who will die soon, a week, a month or so.  In any event, her business will crumble at this rate.  We talk about being together, but do not go into detail.  Honestly, I am hoping a light bulb goes off in her head where she will realize just what IS important. 
YOU HAVE A FALSE IDEA OF HER AND YOU DON'T ACCEPT HER LIKE SHE REALLY IS. YOU WANT TO CHANGE HER AND YOU BELIEVE THAT IF SHE CHANGES YOUR RELATIONSHIP WILL BE PERFECT AND WITHOUT CLOUDS.
LET ME TELL YOU THAT IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
LET ME TELL YOU THAT I HAVE WAISTED ALMOST TWO DECADES OF MY LIFE WAITING PEOPLE TO CHANGE.
LET ME TELL YOU THAT SINCE I HAVE DECIDED TO MAKE BIG MOVES, NOT ONLY I HAVE CHANGED IN A MORE HAPPY WAY, BUT ALSO PEOPLE HAS CHANGED, SOMETIMES NOT ENTIRELY, BUT OFTEN IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY.
LET ME TELL YOU THAT I AM TODAY SURE THAT IT IS QUICKER TO FIND SOMEONE WHO MATCHES YOU BETTER, RATHER THAN TO CHANGE THE CLOSEST ONE YOU ARE ACTUALLY DATING.
LET ME TELL YOU THAT IT IS HARD TO GO AWAY AND TO GO AHEAD, BUT WHEN YOU CULTIVATE IT HONESTLY AND WITH RELEVANCE YOU ARE STRONGER AND YOU BUILD SOMETHING POSITIVE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE POWER TO SUBSTRACT YOURSELF FROM SOMETHING NEGATIVE.

We have been talking about her critical and demanding nature, but it only goes in at a surface level.  Again, I am hoping the changes she will go through, she might try to go deeper into her soul to understand that she has a good man by her side.  (Her last husband was a bum, a loser - a cigarette bootlegger who is on the run from England since 2008.  This she calls ‘noble.’) 
I RARELY HEARD AN FSU WOMAN VILIFYING A MAN, SHE DON'T GET AWARDS FROM THIS IMHO.

I talked about my situation with someone who knows me and she said I have a high tolerance for pain and stress and that I am a person who is committed.  She is right, but that does not mean I will stay the course with my girlfriend.  I said I would give this two years to work through; time is running out as we enter the 11th hour.  I am beginning to look at my other options. 
EACH TIME I SAID TO  MYSELF "OK I LET YOU SIX MONTHS TO ...... NOTHING, NO MIRACLE NEVER HAPPENED. I JUST GAVE THE KEYS OF MY LIFE TO AN HYPOTHETICAL FUTURE WITH A PAINFUL DAILY, WEEKLY OR MONTHY RELATIONSHIP"


Lastly, as always I’ve respected everyone’s thoughts, ideas and comments.  When you respond, please be kind, I’ve had enough negative criticism to last a lifetime.  Just being honest here. 

I will do my best to stay in this forum this time.  I believe there are good people here and I would enjoy becoming friends with all of you. 

Paul

PAUL YOU STAYED APART OF THIS FORUM, WHICH IS NOT TOO BAD CONSIDERING HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE HAMMERED. SO YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. AND PLEASE CONTINUE TO PROTECT YOU, ODDS ARE HARSH WITH YOU.
BUT HONESTLY I SEE NO IMPROVMENTS SINCE YOUR LAST POSTS WITH THIS LADY.
I MET SOME WOMEN WHO REALLY NEEDED A SHOCK, PERHAPS I HAD BEEN THIS SHOCK SOMETIMES, BUT THE BENEFITS OF THE SHOCK HAD NEVER AWARDED ME WHEN I NEEDED THIS WOMAN IN MY LIFE.
I WOULD LIKE  YOU TO AVOID TO STAY IN AN UNSATISFYING RELATIONSHIP.

[Patagonie]

Paulie,
 
Please give her up!   She does not love you, and she never will.  If a woman loves you, she will want to be with you even if there is some risk. 
 
You have eliminated her risk.   The deal you described for a jointly owned home would be a good deal for her.   Yet, she said it was not enough.   
 
She has failed every litmus test.   Aren't you out of litmus paper by now?
 
Start over and find that special someone.  The special woman will require 33% of the work you are now doing, and you will feel 1000% better.
 
Your children and friends met her when she visited you?   Yes?  Your children and friends worry about your happiness and health.  We read what they said.   Please listen to them if not to us.

Start over and find that special someone.  The special woman will require 33% of the work you are now doing, and you will feel 1000% better
.

[Lily]

THE PROBLEM
I am still experiencing problems in two key areas - 1) her concept of how she wants to be supported financially 2) her often misguided ideas about love, marriage and relationships.  Her idea is, in her words 'traditional' in that she feels a man should take care of a woman.  I have no problem with that: I have taken care of the women I lived with.  BUT, a key phrase is 'creating a working relationship.'  She seems to lack that ability because she is stubborn. 

Over the last 18 months I have enjoyed many precious moments with her.  But there are moments she cancels it all out when she becomes scornful and critical.  (We've discussed this and she knows how I feel about it.)  In a word, my girlfriend is a 'perfectionist.'  I too have had these tendencies but learned to let go of it.  She also has a negative streak, can be hard to please, can be demanding and objectionable.  I am always looking at the bright side of life. 

So, why am I with this woman you might wonder?  When she is kind, she can be the sweetest person, fun, entertaining, intellectual, humorous, silly,  and a wonderful lover.   

However, she has an idealistic view of how a man should be in relationship.   Or maybe I am not her type.  In describing her ideal of a relationship, she uses words like  'noble,' 'generous,' and 'sacrificial' to describe what she expects from a man.  She wants a man to 'win her.'  (As for me, I want to be accepted for me: just a down-to-earth and humble person.)   

***

WHAT I OFFERED
***

My starting point offered to give her $2K cash a month, lease her a new car, cover medical, car insurance, phone, food, etc.  Essentially, she would not have any expenses.   Perhaps $2K is not much, but it is a beginning.  I would also, after a period of 3-6 months of getting adjusted, offer to help her establish her business here in the US.  She DOES have the ability to make money with her talents as a gymnastic trainer.

She has a concern about housing, especially if we break up.  So, I came up with a couple of ideas. - 1) She sells the two apartments she has in Ukraine.  She could likely get between, $100-140K.  I would put up equal cash and we would buy a place for cash together.  The title would be (50/50) in her name and mine, in the name of my trust.  I said if I die before her, she could stay in the home until she dies and then the proceeds from the sale would go half to her daughter, the remaining half back to my estate for my children. OR, 2) She could use her money to buy a place in her and her daughter's name.  I would buy a house for cash and put it in my trust.  If I die, she could stay in it until she dies, the house remaining in the trust for my children. 

If we would divorce, in either #1 or #2, then she could stay in the property until she dies, with my estate keeping my initial investment for my kids. 

HER RESPONSE
1) "You offer me nothing." (This comment led to a monumental argument; more about this later.)
2)  She wanted me to put the title in her name only.  (I told her the only possible way that will happen is after we together spend years building a NEW financial base.  I will not use funds from what I built in the past.  Nor, will I allow her to pass on my money to her daughter.) 

At this point, I can hardly believe that this is an accurate description of the positions of both people. We cannot hear the other party speaking here. It is unbelievable for me that a woman can really be that demanding. I am not famiiar with how Turkish men treat women, though. 
 
Nevertheless, I believe that Paulie describes it pretty much correctly. Then, if I got it right, the woman looks concerned about her child's future well being. I will not be surprised if I learn that she plans to spend a good part of her own monthly allowance on her children as well, or just to save them for her children' later use. Have you Paulie ever asked her about how would she spend her pocket money that you suggest to give her every month?
 
As far as I could notice, one of the big differences in the mentality between the Westerners and Russians would be the idea of doing everything possible for their children, even if it comes down to sacrificing their own needs, even the basic ones. Parents sacrifice in favour of their children, the grandparents sacrifice in favor of their grandchildren. Sometimes it comes down to a situation where the youngest in the family appears to be a kind of a 'general receiver'    and the oldest ones are the 'general providers'. I think that it would be a result of a long term scarcity of resources.
 
Last but not least, Russians have no idea what a legal trust means. Did you explained her that?
 

[Boethius]

I disagree.  If the situation is as described, she wants her child to benefit from his income, including by holding real estate in her name, to the exclusion of his children. 

[tfcrew]

    Just play them this...

[LiveFromUkraine]

Hi Paul,


Staying in a relationship hoping someone will change for both to be happy is a recipe for misery. 


I can understand how some people will be infatuated with a concept that they don't want to give up.  It seems she ticks some boxes for you but unbearable in other categories.  Hoping she will change in those "other" categories is not something a relationship can be built on.


The foundation needs to be strong or everything else falls.


I have been in relationships with some great girls.  In the end, there was compatibility problems that couldn't keep us together.  It wasn't a matter of right or wrong.  We just weren't suppose to spend the rest of our lives together even if that is what we had wanted.


There is many other women out there that would appreciate what you have to offer.  No needing to win them over.  You will be happier in the long run with a more compatible woman.

I think you are just putting off the inevitable.  It is obvious you can't take her as she is and she expects more than you are willing to give.


The quicker you two break things off, the sooner the both of you can find someone more compatible.


Just my opinion of course.     In matters such as this, I expect you to gloss over most and continue with this relationship until things get to the point of no return.   We sometimes need to learn our lessons for ourselves.

[Lily]

I disagree.  If the situation is as described, she wants her child to benefit from his income, including by holding real estate in her name, to the exclusion of his children.

Yes, as far as my understanding goes, she would like her child to benefit from HIS income as well.

[Daveman]

I think you are just putting off the inevitable.  It is obvious you can't take her as she is and she expects more than you are willing to give.

I'm not so sure about that...  Because...

In matters such as this, I expect you to gloss over most and continue with this relationship until things get to the point of no return.   We sometimes need to learn our lessons for ourselves.

I expect exactly the same and more.  He'll cave and give her exactly what she wants...

[Rational_Julia]

Well, I don't like the situation the topicstarter described. My intuition is that she is a kind of golddigger. It is normal for people to share risks. And she behaves as if the topicstarter needs this marriage much more than she does. This is inequal positioning from the very beginning. If turks buy apartments for their women, why didn't they buy it for her since she is divorced from a Turk? I think they think she is not worth it and if you get her an apartment you will look like a fool. But it's just my feeling and opinion, maybe I am not right.

[Gator]

He'll cave and give her exactly what she wants...

Not good if he does that.  There is something worse - she caves because she has no other options, and she enters the marriage with much resentment rather than a sense of commitment. 

[BillyB]

  But there are moments she cancels it all out when she becomes scornful and critical. 

  She also has a negative streak, can be hard to please, can be demanding and objectionable.

"You offer me nothing." (This comment led to a monumental argument; more about this later.)

She wanted me to put the title in her name only.

critical and demanding nature

Based off this and other things you said earlier, you should understand why everybody says to let her go. Very few times at this forum everyone is in agreement. Your lady isn't worth it unless that is what you want. What you want is below in the next quote.

So, why am I with this woman you might wonder?  When she is kind, she can be the sweetest person, fun, entertaining, intellectual, humorous, silly,  and a wonderful lover.     

When that does happen, the problem here is you don't know if that is real. With the kind of financial help you offer women, you will find they all have those traits. Heck... offer us men here some financial assistance and we will be sweet, fun, entertaining, and a wonderful lover.

 I want to be accepted for me: just a down-to-earth and humble person.)   

Then close your wallet. Rich, famous, and powerful people are magnets for insincere people. Part of the problem is you using what you have to attract people. Challenge yourself and close your wallet. Attract women with who you are, not what you own. Even if I had a billion dollars, I would travel to the FSU, keep my wallet closed, meet women on the streets or cafes and strike up conversation and maybe invite them for a walk in the park. If I can't win them over with who I am, so be it.

Honestly, I am hoping a light bulb goes off in her head where she will realize just what IS important. 

We are hoping a light bulb goes off in your head that you realize what you're dealing with. For every minute you waste with this women, you are missing out with a wonderful woman who would accept you for the way you are. How long are you going to tell your lady who you are and to accept it before you realize that she didn't accept it and never will. Your #1 goal is wanting love from her. Her #1 goal is wanting financial guarantees. Both of you aren't going to change your goals so move on.

When you respond, please be kind, I’ve had enough negative criticism to last a lifetime.   

If you want kind responses, bring us positive news about a good woman in your life. Based on you the words you write about your lady, you know people are going to criticize. Your fears about your lady are confirmed. What are you going to do next in your life to get rid of the stress and pain and get into a happy place?

[skidoddle]

Hello Paulie,

SKI here and I have been married to a RW for over 15 yrs..

We fell in LOVE and that was it. The financial issues at first never came up

And I am very very well off.

My wife signed a prenup before I married her and she saw the list of my assets. There was not
a word or issue whatsover.

Russian WOMEN RESPECT STABILITY and a MAN that can provide that.

My wife wanted the EMOTIONAL SECURITY as well as all that comes with it FINANCIAL

You have said>>>>

Boethius, I appreciate your comment.  I think the trust issue is a big one for her.  She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security.  I do not wish to pay the price for that one.

So far to date, I have helped her financially.  I pay for all of her (and her daughter's) travel; I've given her a computer, bought clothing for her and have given her about $5,000 towards her miscellaneous expenses.

I have taken care of my last wife - she never worked and her divorce settlement was quite hefty.  So, I am not unused to taking care of a woman. 



It seems she is coming into your relationship with an AGENDA

And I would not hand over ONE DIME TO HER. Here is WHY>>>>

Sorry I have to be BLUNT but it is apparant she has other ISSUEs and AGENDA

Protection and Stabilty and who cannot BLAME her if she has been burned.

I just wrote another POST on interviewing RWs which I did in 1995-1996 to find my wife
and I looked for this AGENDA in the women I interviewed. If they had one I WAS GONE!!!

I would NEVER get messed up in a PAST PROBLEM that a women has been involved with that
now EFFECTs her WHOLE OUTLOOK on LIFE.

Accept it or MOVE ON > it appears to me she will not GIVE UP HER FINANCIAL POSTION and trade
it off FOR YOU

There is a POSSIBLE SOLUTION >>>>>>

Do not ask her to GIVE UP and TRADE>>>> COME UP WITH AN OUT OF THE BOX PLAN > IT MAYBE THERE BUT IT WILL TAKE SOME REAL THINKING AND NEGOTIATING ON BOTH YOUR PARTs

However I would really make certain you know this WOMEN VERY WELL.

It seems you have some money if you can support a women with $100k a year!!!!!!

I think you need a financial planner!!! First and Foremost!!!!!!

I would NEVER and I mean NEVER put that kind of money down on a PERSON that I did not know
well.

I do alot or did in the past alot of biz transactions involving large sums of money. I always investigated
any new person I did any large tansactions with. $100k I would have a very detailed backgound
investigation on this person first and foremost.  I deal with alot of security issues so I know there are alot of lets say UNDESIRABLE PEOPLE OUT THERE> they are called BAD GUYS!!!

No Offense but MONEY IS BUISNESS and should not get MIXED in with a FAMILY RELATIONSHIP

My 3 cents

SKIDODDLE

[Saltheart]

Paul,


You're a nice man.  You're a giver and she's a taker, just as FP said.  Think about that.  She isn't even a matcher which his a step up from taker.


Guess what.  It's not supposed to be this hard.


One of the wonderful aspects about this journey of grinding a compatible mate is you get to be choosey and picky if I may say so.  Find a giver man....find someone who is thrilled to be with you and loves you exactly the way you are.  Keep your financial info on the down low...not coming off as a pauper but that you're "ok".


Please don't do this to yourself.  Find a healthy well balanced girl.  They are out there.


How old are you btw?  Send in PM please. 


Rip off the band aid - feel the pain and start again.  The biggest lesson to learn from this is realizing you have needs too, even as a giver.  Find a giver dude.  Let it be written on your tombstone.  "Thank god I found a giver"


Carry on and good luck.


-Salty

[Saltheart]

Oh...and Paulie...guess what, you may not think so but there's countless women who would love to have the opportunity to be with a nice man and have a full, enriched life.  Don't let the time pass - every year your ball bag drops 1/8th of an inch.  Get moving!

[Daveman]

  Let it be written on your tombstone.  "Thank god I found a giver"

Especially if he has a tombstone from what she gave him!

[jazztropy]

Oh...and Paulie...guess what, you may not think so but there's countless women who would love to have the opportunity to be with a nice man and have a full, enriched life.  Don't let the time pass - every year your ball bag drops 1/8th of an inch.  Get moving!

What's a ball bag?

Good luck, Paulie.