Are FSUW (generally) better?

[alex330]

My FSU better half, who has lived in the West now for 20 years (but does reluctantly visit Ukraine), would disagree.  He acknowledges we have the same here, but says in far fewer numbers.  He blames communism which, he says, turned morality upside down.

He is probably correct from his experience and the people he knows. My experience differs. But then again, I do live in South Florida where things are as corrupt as it gets.

[Ade]

I was thinking more along the lines of values instilled by parents. I don't feel the average person from the FSU is any more corrupt than those in the west. In regards to bending rules and laws, I am ok with that in many cases.

And who do you think perpetuates the endemic corruption and instils the flexible morals in all those nice ladies you guys go hunting for?


Don't get me wrong; I know there are good people there, but the insistence of WM like yourself that the FSU is full of light and purity beyond what can be found in the West is just hilarious.


Good luck with those rose coloured glasses. 

[Boethius]

He is probably correct from his experience and the people he knows. My experience differs. But then again, I do live in South Florida where things are as corrupt as it gets.

South Floridian girls are not prostituting themselves across the globe.   South Florida police don't routinely run prostitution rings or rob citizens.

Trust me, it gives me no pleasure to post this.
(PS - This is about Ukraine.)

[alex330]

Don't get me wrong; I know there are good people there, but the insistence of WM like yourself that the FSU is full of light and purity beyond what can be found in the West is just hilarious.

Good luck with those rose coloured glasses. 

I never mentioned light and purity. Ukraine has it's issues, we all know that. From my experience and the people I have met Ukraine the average person in Ukraine is no more corrupt than here.

Why are you such a bitter man Ade? I have always wondered that in your posts.

[alex330]

South Floridian girls are not prostituting themselves across the globe.   South Florida police don't routinely run prostitution rings or rob citizens.

No need to travel when there are plenty of escort agencies right here where the money is good. The cops are involved in more lucrative things like running kilos of cocaine. They prefer to shoot people rather than shake them down. We all know Ukraine has it's issues, there is no arguing that. But issues exist everywhere. My wife was amazed at the crime when she arrived here and she is from Odessa, which has more than it's share of issues.

[Slumba]

FSUW are 'better' than WW in only one feature:  'On average' they are more slender.

Hilarious!  So it was purely by "accident" for you that you ended up with an FSUW.  Just like "Anchors Rewoven" (I won't use his real forum name) and all the other "FSUW-intention-deniers" on this board.

I have not traveled to the FSU yet but have known many FSUW here in USA.

Have also communicated in depth over Skype or email with some number of FSUW who are living in Russia/Ukraine etc.

It is not about "average" because half the populations of both America and Russia, are dumber than average (think about it).
 
The top 25% of the population of the USA's eligible women, and the top 25% of the FSU eligible women (however you define this; and whatever percentage you want to talk about) are what is really being compared. 

And in this, there is little comparison in terms of approachability, intelligence, femininity, culture etc.  That at least is my opinion.

A lot of it is role models and pop culture - the corrosive effects of Hollywood, Twilight, poor education, anti-intellectual bias in American culture, "you are fat but still beautiful" etc. have not been felt as deeply or taken as much hold in what I will broadly call "FSU culture". 

So even if a particular FSUW is not as high in IQ, her EQ (emotional IQ) and culture quotient (CQ?) will be higher.  She will either be oriented towards European culture or Russian culture, neither of which celebrates Paris Hilton and Gabourey Sidibe as role models to the extent that American culture does.

[vwrw]

Do you believe individuals are a product of their environment? Are certain values instilled upon individuals that may be more common in said environment? Do certain geographical areas or nations have a higher number of women that meet your wants in a partner? I believe so, and for me there was a much better possibility to meet my other half in the FSU.

I completely share your view. Environment certainly installs some values upon its individuals. 

[Ade]

I never mentioned light and purity. Ukraine has it's issues, we all know that. From my experience and the people I have met Ukraine the average person in Ukraine is no more corrupt than here.

Why are you such a bitter man Ade? I have always wondered that in your posts.

That you think I'm bitter says more about your judge of character than anything which of course doesn't bode well for you and your opinion on the "average Ukrainian".

[Ade]

I completely share your view. Environment certainly installs some values upon its individuals.

Of course, the environment people are exposed to during their formative years plays a huge role in the value system they develop. So, tell us all, what kind of values, generally, are instilled by the environment in Ukraine and Russia. The curious among us await your answer with bated breath.

[Faux Pas]

I actually like hog jowl and nobody could cook a better squirrel than my grandmother. 

[Boethius]

So even if a particular FSUW is not as high in IQ, her EQ (emotional IQ) and culture quotient (CQ?) will be higher.  She will either be oriented towards European culture or Russian culture, neither of which celebrates Paris Hilton and Gabourey Sidibe as role models to the extent that American culture does.

Ukrainians watch the same crappy movies, and listen to the same crappy pop as do Westerners.  Lots of twenty-somethings there love Lady Gaga, Rhianna, etc., and Paris Hilton got a lot of press when she was there (last year or the year before, I can't remember).

[vwrw]

So, tell us all, what kind of values, generally, are instilled by the environment in Ukraine and Russia. The curious among us await your answer with bated breath.

I could not find "please" in your request.

[Ade]

I could not find "please" in your request.

You make a vague statement and you need a "please" to clarify it? lol

[noelscot]

Specifically, are FSUW better than WW. If so, why?

I'll play fair and answer my own question. (This are my personal musings, not a dissertation for an anthropology PhD.)

This is why I personally think WW are inferior to FSUW.

-Most WW are familiar (common), and as Florence King said, "Familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It is contempt." FSUW are exotic, not boring.

-Most WW see things in black and white, as is seen in the platitude "there are two sides to a coin." FSUW see things in grey.

-Most WW have a blind trust in government, courts, etc. For example, most Americans still believe voting actually matters and that they have control over "their" government. FSUW have a healthy cynicism about government. Here we see an example in a popular Russian saying that espouses attitudes of legal nihilism: Утиного зоба не накормишь, судейского карман не наполнишь (Like a duck's stomach, it is difficult to fill up a judge's pockets.)

-Most WW are idealistic as opposed to practical like FSUW. For example, the "American dream." As George Carlin said, it's a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. FSUW have the mindset of Il Duce: ""The sanctity of an -ism is not in the -ism; it has no sanctity beyond its power to do, to work, to succeed in practice. It may have succeeded yesterday and fail to-morrow. Failed yesterday and succeed to-morrow. The machine first of all must run!"

-Most WW have become weak during the good times as opposed to FSUW who became tough survivors during a very hellish modern period of "transition" to democracy (more like kleptocracy). A lot of FSUW, especially those in their 40s-50s, are as tough as the Depression era women of America.

-Most WW are besotted with political correctness. FSUW call a spade a spade and never met a euphemism they didn't like.

-Most WW have little familiarity with guns. Many FSUW received training as part of their education and can operate and disassemble firearms such as the Makarov pistol or the Kalashnikov automatic rifle. (Albeit, these are FSUW who attended school when the USSR was still governing.) Anyhow, in a zombie apocalypse a trustworthy Russkaya would be a powerful teammate. Kommanda!

-FSUW have a stoic worldview, not an unrealistic view of people.

I'll stop now, because this could go on forever.

[BillyB]

FSUW are 'better' than WW in only one feature:  'On average' they are more slender.

ALL guys who travel to the FSU the first time notices clear differences between American and FSU women. The beauty of the average FSU women walking down the street doesn't just come from slenderness. I've never read a trip report where a guy says the average women walking down the street in his home country are better looking.


Lots of talk about submissive people in this thread as if it's a bad thing. Reread the definition of submissive. Being submissive to your wife or husband's needs is a good thing.

[Slumba]

Concerning what I call the "FSUW-intention-deniers":

IT seems that some on this board, want us to believe a Russian fairy tale, that goes like this:

 "It would have been no problem for me to find an exactly equivalent woman in my country, but, it just so happened that ... one day I woke up, put on my Burberry bathrobe, and padded downstairs (I have a 2-story loft in a fashionable part of St. Louis, Missouri, just a stone's throw from the Arch; my palace when I am not in my small walkups in any of Paris, New York, or San Francisco).

I checked my morning email summary of my investments and various businesses, prepared for me by my staff in London (my people in California are trained to send me reports after market close of NYSE, so of course I get those in the afternoon).

However, as my Jura coffee maker - a steal at $2700 delivered from Amazon ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2011/12/11/the-rolex-of-coffee-makers-how-swiss-made-precision-changed-my-life/ ) was doing its thing, I kept hearing a strange noise - a sort of mewling, half-cry, half-sob. 

Since it wasn't the automatic milk frother, I looked out the elegant Tiffany-style leaded glass window of my front door - the noise was stronger there.  It must be, I figured, one of those new robotic toys the neighbour kids always buy - I opened my door to have a look. 

Imagine my surprise, when I saw on my doorstep, a large reed basket! And inside was a young woman, all wrapped in swaddling clothes!  Someone must have left her on my doorstep in the middle of the night.  She was saying something in Russian (a hint of the Moscow accent I detected, in her pronunciation of "язык") in a soft voice - I answered her formally (вас , вы ) and assured her she was safe.

Well, I couldn't just leave the poor shivering blonde thing there, now could I ?!  I carefully unwrapped her from the large blanket (not even high-thread count Egyptian cotton, I noted, but rather some hideous polyester-based fleece job) - she was dressed in the bare minimum of clothing, without boots or leopard-print yoga pants, even.

And that's how we met, honest!"

[noelscot]

Concerning what I call the "FSUW-intention-deniers":

IT seems that some on this board, want us to believe a Russian fairy tale, that goes like this:

 "It would have been no problem for me to find an exactly equivalent woman in my country, but, it just so happened that ... one day I woke up, put on my Burberry bathrobe, and padded downstairs (I have a 2-story loft in a fashionable part of St. Louis, Missouri, just a stone's throw from the Arch; my palace when I am not in my small walkups in any of Paris, New York, or San Francisco).

I checked my morning email summary of my investments and various businesses, prepared for me by my staff in London (my people in California are trained to send me reports after market close of NYSE, so of course I get those in the afternoon).

However, as my Jura coffee maker - a steal at $2700 delivered from Amazon ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2011/12/11/the-rolex-of-coffee-makers-how-swiss-made-precision-changed-my-life/ ) was doing its thing, I kept hearing a strange noise - a sort of mewling, half-cry, half-sob. 

Since it wasn't the automatic milk frother, I looked out the elegant Tiffany-style leaded glass window of my front door - the noise was stronger there.  It must be, I figured, one of those new robotic toys the neighbour kids always buy - I opened my door to have a look. 

Imagine my surprise, when I saw on my doorstep, a large reed basket! And inside was a young woman, all wrapped in swaddling clothes!  Someone must have left her on my doorstep in the middle of the night.  She was saying something in Russian (a hint of the Moscow accent I detected, in her pronunciation of "язык") in a soft voice - I answered her formally (BAC, VWI) and assured her she was safe.

Well, I couldn't just leave the poor shivering blonde thing there, now could I ?!  I carefully unwrapped her from the large blanket (not even high-thread count Egyptian cotton, I noted, but rather some hideous polyester-based fleece job) - she was dressed in the bare minimum of clothing, without boots or leopard-print yoga pants, even.

And that's how we met, honest!"

Do you mean the fake-arse crackers who think their you know what doesn't stink? Who has time for their silliness? Just be thankful we don't have to interact with them in real life.

[TheTraveler]

I'll play fair and answer my own question. (This are my personal musings, not a dissertation for an anthropology PhD.)

This is why I personally think WW are inferior to FSUW.

-Most WW are familiar (common), and as Florence King said, "Familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It is contempt." FSUW are exotic, not boring.

-Most WW see things in black and white, as is seen in the platitude "there are two sides to a coin." FSUW see things in grey.

-Most WW have a blind trust in government, courts, etc. For example, most Americans still believe voting actually matters and that they have control over "their" government. FSUW have a healthy cynicism about government. Here we see an example in a popular Russian saying that espouses attitudes of legal nihilism: Утиного зоба не накормишь, судейского карман не наполнишь (Like a duck's stomach, it is difficult to fill up a judge's pockets.)

-Most WW are idealistic as opposed to practical like FSUW. For example, the "American dream." As George Carlin said, it's a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. FSUW have the mindset of Il Duce: ""The sanctity of an -ism is not in the -ism; it has no sanctity beyond its power to do, to work, to succeed in practice. It may have succeeded yesterday and fail to-morrow. Failed yesterday and succeed to-morrow. The machine first of all must run!"

-Most WW have become weak during the good times as opposed to FSUW who became tough survivors during a very hellish modern period of "transition" to democracy (more like kleptocracy). A lot of FSUW, especially those in their 40s-50s, are as tough as the Depression era women of America.

-Most WW are besotted with political correctness. FSUW call a spade a spade and never met a euphemism they didn't like.

-Most WW have little familiarity with guns. Many FSUW received training as part of their education and can operate and disassemble firearms such as the Makarov pistol or the Kalashnikov automatic rifle. (Albeit, these are FSUW who attended school when the USSR was still governing.) Anyhow, in a zombie apocalypse a trustworthy Russkaya would be a powerful teammate. Kommanda!

-FSUW have a stoic worldview, not an unrealistic view of people.

I'll stop now, because this could go on forever.

some great stuff there, noelscot!!

[Misha]

Concerning what I call the "FSUW-intention-deniers":

IT seems that some on this board, want us to believe a Russian fairy tale, that goes like this:

You forgot to mention that the 20-years-younger model that they were dating had just left. They can't remember the name as there were so many of them... 

[BillyB]

some great stuff there, noelscot!!

Yeah but he forgot to say how pretty they are.


Besides the fact American guys who go to the FSU are shocked how FSU women look, FSU women who come to America are shocked how the American women look too.

[Doll]

 noelscot, in my opinion, most of the "differences" from your reply # 63 at some point play against AM husbands. I mean - AM get tired quite soon of RW "being tough" or their being direct (when they call things how they are).
 
AM are used to endless smiles, sugar coating and flattering.
IMHO

[Fashionista]

I'll play fair and answer my own question. (This are my personal musings, not a dissertation for an anthropology PhD.)

This is why I personally think WW are inferior to FSUW.

-Most WW are familiar (common), and as Florence King said, "Familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It is contempt." FSUW are exotic, not boring.

-Most WW see things in black and white, as is seen in the platitude "there are two sides to a coin." FSUW see things in grey.

-Most WW have a blind trust in government, courts, etc. For example, most Americans still believe voting actually matters and that they have control over "their" government. FSUW have a healthy cynicism about government. Here we see an example in a popular Russian saying that espouses attitudes of legal nihilism: Утиного зоба не накормишь, судейского карман не наполнишь (Like a duck's stomach, it is difficult to fill up a judge's pockets.)

-Most WW are idealistic as opposed to practical like FSUW. For example, the "American dream." As George Carlin said, it's a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. FSUW have the mindset of Il Duce: ""The sanctity of an -ism is not in the -ism; it has no sanctity beyond its power to do, to work, to succeed in practice. It may have succeeded yesterday and fail to-morrow. Failed yesterday and succeed to-morrow. The machine first of all must run!"

-Most WW have become weak during the good times as opposed to FSUW who became tough survivors during a very hellish modern period of "transition" to democracy (more like kleptocracy). A lot of FSUW, especially those in their 40s-50s, are as tough as the Depression era women of America.

-Most WW are besotted with political correctness. FSUW call a spade a spade and never met a euphemism they didn't like.

-Most WW have little familiarity with guns. Many FSUW received training as part of their education and can operate and disassemble firearms such as the Makarov pistol or the Kalashnikov automatic rifle. (Albeit, these are FSUW who attended school when the USSR was still governing.) Anyhow, in a zombie apocalypse a trustworthy Russkaya would be a powerful teammate. Kommanda!

-FSUW have a stoic worldview, not an unrealistic view of people.

I'll stop now, because this could go on forever.

I keep hearing about toughness of Russian people from my friends here, and I don't know where it comes from. The toughness of Russian people is grossly exaggarated (while rudeness is not, thank god for that "cultural difference and second language" thingie, where would we be without that excuse).
 
Indeed, I had the highest mark in the class for assembling-disassembling the AK, I could do it even faster than all the boys, but don't count on me if there is a British invasion... Oh wait, I am in Canada. We'd probably be on the wrong side...

[Doll]

RW ARE tough.

[Fashionista]

Define tough. Up for a challenge? Will maintian principles and integrity no matter what? I don't think so...

[Doll]

OK,
"стойкие"