Are FSUW (generally) better?

[Misha]

I keep hearing about toughness of Russian people from my friends here, and I don't know where it comes from. The toughness of Russian people is grossly exaggarated (while rudeness is not, thank god for that "cultural difference and second language" thingie, where would we be without that excuse).

I agree and there is a great deal of variation between individuals as well. Some people are rude, some are not. Some are direct, many are not. Some have better social skills, some do not.

[BillyB]

RW ARE tough.

Yeah but to a tough man, RW are soft.

[ML]

The toughness of Russian people is grossly exaggarated (while rudeness is not, thank god for that "cultural difference and second language" thingie, where would we be without that excuse).

Thanks for your refreshing candor . . . or humor !!   

[vwrw]

RW ARE tough.

Although RW love to worry, they are tough. It is difficult to lead them into emotional breakdown. The definition of tough is "Strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough or careless handling".

[calmissile]

Thanks for your refreshing candor . . . or humor !!   

+1

[vwrw]

Statistical evidence of RW toughness would be the suicide rates among RM and RW. There is a staggering difference.


http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/russ.pdf


RW can withstand what breaks RM

[Fashionista]

Statistical evidence of RW toughness would be the suicide rates among RM and RW. There is a staggering difference.


http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/russ.pdf


RW can withstand what breaks RM

That's one interpretation.
 
Another one is that RW are better at leading their spouses to suicide than the other way around 

[calmissile]

Statistical evidence of RW toughness would be the suicide rates among RM and RW. There is a staggering difference.


http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/russ.pdf


RW can withstand what breaks RM

Wow!   That data is worth pondering.

[vwrw]

That's one interpretation.
 
Another one is that RW are better at leading their spouses to suicide than the other way around 

He-he

According to another statistical finding though, married RM live longer than the single ones.  Those findings combined justify the conclusion that RW make their husbands stronger and more viable.     

[LiveFromUkraine]

He-he

According to another statistical finding though, married RM live longer than the single ones.  Those findings combined justify the conclusion that RW make their husbands stronger and more viable.     

I don't think that is a RW thing.  I believe, in general, men tend to live longer when married.  I imagine it has to do with risky behavior when single and only caring for oneself.

[Misha]

According to another statistical finding though, married RM live longer than the single ones.   

Well, the same is true for men in the United States and Canada: married men live longer.

[vwrw]

Alcoholism is another way to escape the unbearable reality. Unlike many  RM, RW choose to deal with their reality.


"Some Russian women are also alcoholics but the rate is two or three times lower than among men. "Women feel more responsible for their family and drink less," says Nefedova.  "I guess we live longer because we are working more and they [the men] are drinking more," Tamara says.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/russ


Adverse conditions make RW to work more, not to give up. Isn't it a prove of their toughness? And do not forget that in addition to the adverse conditions that men deal with, women have to deal with the drunken men who make their lives even more difficult than men's.

[Misha]

Adverse conditions make RW to work more, not to give up. Isn't it a prove of their toughness? And do not forget that in addition to the adverse conditions that men deal with, women have to deal with the drunken men who make their lives even more difficult than men's.

Yes, but there are women who are alcoholics in Russia and there are more than a few women and men who have to deal with adverse conditions in North America as well 

[vwrw]

Yes, but there are women who are alcoholics in Russia

Correct. However, RW are tough and few of them become alcoholics, while not so tough RM drink and kill themselves in suicides. My point is that while RW are exposed to more adverse conditions than RM are, fewer RW get broken down by those conditions.

[Misha]

Correct. However, RW are tough and few of them become alcoholics, while not so tough RM drink and kill themselves in suicides. My point is that while RW are exposed to more adverse conditions than RM are, fewer RW get broken down by those conditions.

The pressures for men to drink is also much greater. Women can get away with only drinking wine

[vwrw]

There are more than a few women and men who have to deal with adverse conditions in North America as well 

Misha, I have no doubt some North Americans deal with adverse conditions too. However, the adverse conditions of North America are  unlikely similar to the adverse conditions somewhere in Siberia.

[SANDRO43]

OK, "стойкие"

That appears to be straight from Ancient Greek στωικός (stoikòs):

Stoicism is a school of Hellenistic philosophy founded in Athens by Zeno of Citium in the early 3rd century BC. The Stoics taught that destructive emotions resulted from errors in judgment and that a sage, or person of "moral and intellectual perfection", would not suffer such emotions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

Stoicism had many adherents in the Roman world, too, including emperor Marcus Aurelius (played by Richard Harris in The Gladiator ).

[Boethius]

Misha, I have no doubt some North Americans deal with adverse conditions too. However, the adverse conditions of North America are  unlikely similar to the adverse conditions somewhere in Siberia.

Almost identical in some places in northern Canada.

[noelscot]

noelscot, in my opinion, most of the "differences" from your reply # 63 at some point play against [weak] AM husbands. I mean - AM get tired quite soon of RW "being tough" or their being direct (when they call things how they are).
 
AM are used to endless smiles, sugar coating and flattering.
IMHO

I'd rather be with someone who sees life as it is, not a whitewashed version that doesn't exist. I fixed your sentence for you.

[Misha]

Misha, I have no doubt some North Americans deal with adverse conditions too. However, the adverse conditions of North America are  unlikely similar to the adverse conditions somewhere in Siberia.

Well, I see enough poverty on a daily basis to know that Russians don't have a monopoly on adversity.

[Boethius]

I'll play fair and answer my own question. (This are my personal musings, not a dissertation for an anthropology PhD.)

This is why I personally think WW are inferior to FSUW.

-Most WW are familiar (common), and as Florence King said, "Familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It is contempt." FSUW are exotic, not boring.

-Most WW see things in black and white, as is seen in the platitude "there are two sides to a coin." FSUW see things in grey.

-Most WW have a blind trust in government, courts, etc. For example, most Americans still believe voting actually matters and that they have control over "their" government. FSUW have a healthy cynicism about government. Here we see an example in a popular Russian saying that espouses attitudes of legal nihilism: Утиного зоба не накормишь, судейского карман не наполнишь (Like a duck's stomach, it is difficult to fill up a judge's pockets.)

-Most WW are idealistic as opposed to practical like FSUW. For example, the "American dream." As George Carlin said, it's a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. FSUW have the mindset of Il Duce: ""The sanctity of an -ism is not in the -ism; it has no sanctity beyond its power to do, to work, to succeed in practice. It may have succeeded yesterday and fail to-morrow. Failed yesterday and succeed to-morrow. The machine first of all must run!"

-Most WW have become weak during the good times as opposed to FSUW who became tough survivors during a very hellish modern period of "transition" to democracy (more like kleptocracy). A lot of FSUW, especially those in their 40s-50s, are as tough as the Depression era women of America.

-Most WW are besotted with political correctness. FSUW call a spade a spade and never met a euphemism they didn't like.

-Most WW have little familiarity with guns. Many FSUW received training as part of their education and can operate and disassemble firearms such as the Makarov pistol or the Kalashnikov automatic rifle. (Albeit, these are FSUW who attended school when the USSR was still governing.) Anyhow, in a zombie apocalypse a trustworthy Russkaya would be a powerful teammate. Kommanda!

-FSUW have a stoic worldview, not an unrealistic view of people.

I'll stop now, because this could go on forever.

Well, it's a nice fantasy, and I'll only respond to one side.  With people living in cars since the economic collapse, I think a lot of AW have seen other than "good times" and managed to survive them. 


Your descriptions were far too broad.  WW are not monolithic.  Neither are AW, for that matter.

[vwrw]

Well, I see enough poverty on a daily basis to know that Russians don't have a monopoly on adversity.

And? What is your point, Misha? Is it that the majority of Canadians have to deal with exactly the same adverse conditions that Russians do? 

[Misha]

[size=78%]And? What is your point, Misha? Is it that the majority of Canadians have to deal with exactly the same adverse conditions that Russians do? [/size]

That there is poverty in Russia and poverty in the United States and Canada. What did adversity really mean for most Russians? They had to plant potatoes and be a bit more frugal. If you were in a village, you cut your own hay and fed/milked your cows. However, when you come to think of it, that is pretty much what we did when I was a child 

[ML]

Well, the same is true for men in the United States and Canada: married men live longer.

But they are more willing to die.

[JayH]

Specifically, are FSUW better than WW. If so, why?

Yes-- it was a good thing you elaborated further down thread  in posting your answers-- I could not figure out how to explain it to you if you had not already figured it out!!