Ice Cubes Chance in Hell - Part 2

[IAmZon]

How's everybody been?  Happy Easter:)

It's hard for me not to notice that I am approaching my one year anniversary of being SINGLE after spending 2 months in Eastern Europe and Ukraine.   I thought this topic may be entertaining, thought provoking, and perhaps stimulate an interest discussion. 

Observations / Lessons Learned:

1, Don't share your experiences on the internet!

2, Men (me included) have a strong tendency to romanticize Slavic women - perhaps for good reasons - but the idealism creates blurred vision, and gives all the women that you meet an advantage that most do not need in the first place.

3, THERE ARE ISSUES! 
a) There are issues with the men that seek and travel.  Why? (What caused previous failures? What are you running away from? What advantage are you hoping to find?)
b) There are issues with the women that seek foreign men.  Why? (Why are they not already engaged in a healthy relationship?  What is their past?  Why do some women look so hard for a "foreign husband.)
c) There are issues with the meeting structures.  - online dating sites can produce an "auction mentality."  - marriage agencies have seen far too many train-wrecks than successes.  All the staff and women are jaded, either a little or alot.

4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  If there is a spark, that better turn into a flame damn fast.  Even in the best of cases, the distance and culture is a formidable obstacle.

5, Ukrainians in particular, but Eastern and Russians generally, do not trust automatically or fast.  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  They are like human lie detectors, so get your story straight (and it should not be: I have come looking for a wife!  That alone sets of alarms).

BUT, there is no doubt that I met a huge amount of beautiful women that seemed to be of exceptional quality (intelligence, education, and personality).   All a man can hope for is a chance, and a chance is more than possible.

[LiveFromUkraine]

How's everybody been?  Happy Easter:)

Same to you riv.

1, Don't share your experiences on the internet!

Sharing is caring man.  There is no reason to go into too much details online.  I am still shaking my head at someone contacting that girl. 

2, Men (me included) have a strong tendency to romanticize Slavic women - perhaps for good reasons - but the idealism creates blurred vision, and gives all the women that you meet an advantage that most do not need in the first place.

Yep, we see it on this forum.  Things like do Russian women have sex before marriage always gives me a little chuckle.

4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  If there is a spark, that better turn into a flame damn fast.  Even in the best of cases, the distance and culture is a formidable obstacle.

Depends on what you mean by pulling the trigger.  Taking your time is better, imo.  If the flame goes out then count yourself lucky you didn't get married to a cold spell.

5, Ukrainians in particular, but Eastern and Russians generally, do not trust automatically or fast.  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  They are like human lie detectors, so get your story straight (and it should not be: I have come looking for a wife!  That alone sets of alarms).

If people are using marriage agencies or dating sites, women would expect them to be looking for a wife.  They certainly wouldn't want someone just looking for a casual date.

BUT, there is no doubt that I met a huge amount of beautiful women that seemed to be of exceptional quality (intelligence, education, and personality).   All a man can hope for is a chance, and a chance is more than possible.

Sometimes it is better to take a step back and process the experiences.  You may find that you want to go back and take advantage of the things you have learned and hopefully proceed in a more positive way.

[HiTech]

I agree with the lessons learned.

Quote<blockquote>4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  If there is a spark, that better turn into a flame damn fast.  Even in the best of cases, the distance and culture is a formidable obstacle.
</blockquote>

Depends on what you mean by pulling the trigger.  Taking your time is better, imo.  If the flame goes out then count yourself lucky you didn't get married to a cold spell.

I also received this advice just before I left on my first trip.

It assume it means be ready to decided either way quickly.

I.E. If a spark is not obvious to both, and you have any doubts about a 100% commitment for her to try to move forward (I am not saying it will succeed, only that there is no doubt about intent) then it is time to end the relationship and move on.

And if you see and feel a 100% commitment to move forward,and the flame is building quickly,  then do so. Don't keep looking for something better. (but keep your head about you and eyes wide open)


I believe many men make the mistake of not ending a bad deal quickly.

About #5 on keeping your story straight.

The key is (WHY you came looking for a wife). If you don't have a valid

HiTech

[BillyB]

  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  They are like human lie detectors, so get your story straight (and it should not be: I have come looking for a wife!  That alone sets of alarms).

I've had FSU women including my wife ask me about my previous visits to the FSU. I tell the ladies I came to find love, but did not find it. Better to say love instead of wife. Coming to the FSU for a woman is the only truth most of the ladies will believe. Coming strictly on business or tourism may be true for a guy but most ladies will view it as a lie.

  I am still shaking my head at someone contacting that girl. 

I wasn't around when that happened but it's no surprise we go rats at the forum. Probably reading every trip report and hunting down the ladies.

[IAmZon]

=> pulling the trigger.  I do not mean act impulsively,  but rather deliberately.  Funny. I was too confident (cocky) always, until such time as I found someone that I valued and desired.  It was then I owned a hint of doubt - not good, nor attractive.

=> story straight. Of course do not lie.  But, say something clear-minded and confidence provoking. Finding a wife, or love, by itself rang a little hollow in my observations.

=> What Happened?  Some ratfucker from this board tracked down my little angle and said everything and anything possible to submarine me.  (as it turned out the woman with whom I had an interest was a close friend with one of the translators at the agency.  Once suspicion was created - that included a "mug shot" of me getting arrested in Boca Grande because the boat trailer had expired tags HAHAHA - there was no turning back). 

All happened for the best!   It was her eyes that put a spell on me; not mutual connection, compatibility, and other more essential - more long lasting - things.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I agree with the lessons learned.

I also received this advice just before I left on my first trip.

It assume it means be ready to decided either way quickly.

Ah, gotcha.  That is a good point. 

I believe many men make the mistake of not ending a bad deal quickly.

I think that is natural even when dating locally.  Hopefully enough experience will show when to move on and not waste time.

[LiveFromUkraine]

=> pulling the trigger.  I do not mean act impulsively,  but rather deliberately.  Funny. I was too confident (cocky) always, until such time as I found someone that I valued and desired.  It was then I owned a hint of doubt - not good, nor attractive.

Cocky doesn't work too well there. 

[IAmZon]

Cocky doesn't work too well there.

LOL!  Isn't THAT the truth.  Almost any swagger is counterproductive.  Everything seems to be  translated with the conclusion = GREEDY. (This has to be some sublime reference to selfishness.   It is applied even when one's behavior - financially - is clearly to the contrary . )

[Gator]

Riv, good to see you again.  During this past year did you completely forgo Easter European women?  If yes, are you interested in renewing your search of the FSU?

1, Don't share your experiences on the internet! - Correct.  Share only if you have some bewildering questions that may embrace cultural differences.  Even then expect differing opinions (which is good) and criticism (which frequently is nothing more than bluntly expressed opinions).  Do not share your joy expecting all to applaud.  Never show a photo until your relationship is solid.

2, Men (me included) have a strong tendency to romanticize Slavic women - perhaps for good reasons -  What could be a good reason?  I assert that men become fascinated with RW based merely on the photo and certainly well before they discover the inner person.   As the relationship begins to develop, a man seeks excuses to dismiss gaps in age, beauty, etc. and he accepts the hype that RW are different:  RW focus on a man's inner qualities, RW possess traditional family values, RW have a profound understanding of life, RW love abidingly, RW are highly educated and intelligent, etc.  Over time, a man may indeed find such a woman.   However to believe it in the initial stages is dangerous.  It is best to spend much time together, enjoy each other, and see what develops.

3, There are issues with the women that seek foreign men.  Why? (Why are they not already engaged in a healthy relationship?  What is their past?  Why do some women look so hard for a "foreign husband.)   Correct.  Everyone has a story.  It takes a long time for a RW to bare her soul unlike many AW who show little restraint  and  welcome drama.


4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  Correct.  Advance a relationship only for solid reasons and emotional feelings, not simply because she is young and pretty.   

5, Ukrainians in particular, but Eastern and Russians generally, do not trust automatically or fast.  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  Correct.  It is not just the women.  The FSU is a society of skeptics based on centuries of needing to be skeptical.

[IAmZon]

Riv, good to see you again.  During this past year did you completely forgo Easter European women?  If yes, are you interested in renewing your search of the FSU?

Good to see you too, Gator.  I hope you and your lovely wife and family are well.  YOUR WIFE EPITOMIZES THE BEST PART OF THE FANTASIES - so good for you!

I have been on sabbatical for the most part.  I have managed a little time in the Caribbean and South America, which is a place I enjoy living very much.  It is interesting!  I could find a good and beautiful women in those parts (and it is probable that I will end up doing just that).   My relationships with Latinas are very emotionally sober compared to my more "earnest" attraction to Eastern European women. Obviously, this is a personal problem LOL

I see now that I have played too long and am approaching the bewitching hour of international marriage - I just turned 49.  So, I will take life as it comes, without boyish and unrealistic expectations. 

[ML]

Coming strictly on business or tourism may be true for a guy but most ladies will view it as a lie.

I only had one woman who directly told me she didn't really believe I was there for business.  In fact, she said it 3 times; and the last time I motioned to waiter, paid the bill and left.

A lot of other women told me many frank things, and if they had wanted to say they did not believe that business was also part of my reason for being in country then they certainly would have blurted that out also.

And, my business story probably was particularly hard for them to believe. Because of the highly confidential nature of my business (financial analysis of acquisitions, mergers, private placement of debt and equity securities, etc.), I could not divulge a single tiny bit of info about anything.

[TheTraveler]

glad to see you here posting, riv!

good stuff!

(and a happy easter to you too!)

[Boethius]

Hi Tim,


I hope all is well with you and your family.

 

Observations / Lessons Learned:

1, Don't share your experiences on the internet!

I think it is fine to share experiences, impressions, your perceptions of your on the ground experiences, etc., rather than a budding relationship.   

2, Men (me included) have a strong tendency to romanticize Slavic women - perhaps for good reasons - but the idealism creates blurred vision, and gives all the women that you meet an advantage that most do not need in the first place

Romanticize is not the term I would use.

3, THERE ARE ISSUES! 
a) There are issues with the men that seek and travel.  Why? (What caused previous failures? What are you running away from? What advantage are you hoping to find?)
b) There are issues with the women that seek foreign men.  Why? (Why are they not already engaged in a healthy relationship?  What is their past?  Why do some women look so hard for a "foreign husband.)
c) There are issues with the meeting structures.  - online dating sites can produce an "auction mentality."  - marriage agencies have seen far too many train-wrecks than successes.  All the staff and women are jaded, either a little or alot.

I believe there are issues because the process, largely, is unnatural in many respects.

4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  If there is a spark, that better turn into a flame damn fast.  Even in the best of cases, the distance and culture is a formidable obstacle.

I don't think you can "turn" something into a flame.  It's there or it's not.  But, I agree with you on the obstacles.

5, Ukrainians in particular, but Eastern and Russians generally, do not trust automatically or fast.  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  They are like human lie detectors, so get your story straight (and it should not be: I have come looking for a wife!  That alone sets of alarms).

BUT, there is no doubt that I met a huge amount of beautiful women that seemed to be of exceptional quality (intelligence, education, and personality).   All a man can hope for is a chance, and a chance is more than possible.

This is part of the legacy of Soviet history, but also their interactions with foreigners, most of whom have an angle when they visit the FSU.

[XMan]

How's everybody been?  Happy Easter:)

It's hard for me not to notice that I am approaching my one year anniversary of being SINGLE after spending 2 months in Eastern Europe and Ukraine.   I thought this topic may be entertaining, thought provoking, and perhaps stimulate an interest discussion. 

Observations / Lessons Learned:

1, Don't share your experiences on the internet!

2, Men (me included) have a strong tendency to romanticize Slavic women - perhaps for good reasons - but the idealism creates blurred vision, and gives all the women that you meet an advantage that most do not need in the first place.

3, THERE ARE ISSUES! 
a) There are issues with the men that seek and travel.  Why? (What caused previous failures? What are you running away from? What advantage are you hoping to find?)
b) There are issues with the women that seek foreign men.  Why? (Why are they not already engaged in a healthy relationship?  What is their past?  Why do some women look so hard for a "foreign husband.)
c) There are issues with the meeting structures.  - online dating sites can produce an "auction mentality."  - marriage agencies have seen far too many train-wrecks than successes.  All the staff and women are jaded, either a little or alot.

4, Better be ready to pull the trigger.  If there is a spark, that better turn into a flame damn fast.  Even in the best of cases, the distance and culture is a formidable obstacle.

5, Ukrainians in particular, but Eastern and Russians generally, do not trust automatically or fast.  The women are suspicious, and with good cause.  They are like human lie detectors, so get your story straight (and it should not be: I have come looking for a wife!  That alone sets of alarms).

BUT, there is no doubt that I met a huge amount of beautiful women that seemed to be of exceptional quality (intelligence, education, and personality).   All a man can hope for is a chance, and a chance is more than possible.

I think I'll add a few.
6)  Somewhere between extreme paranoia and purposeful ignorance is the Holy Grail of middle ground.  If you can find that sweet spot, your chances of success will most likely be significantly greater.
7)  Don't tilt the balance of power in favor of someone else.  You'll never regain it.
8)Don't be a savior.  Once saved, your purpose has been served and you are no longer necessary.
9)  In your efforts to impress, don't set the bar so high that in the future you'll be exhausted just trying to maintain it. 
10)  By all means, be yourself.   
11)  Research what it's going to require to make it happen (not just communication, travel, etc., but to actually be together in the long-term).  A giant shot of realism may cure your Slavic fever.
12)  Don't hesitate to add more cow bell.
 

[lordtiberius]

I thought Ice Cube just acts now and gave up music.

[Faux Pas]

I think I'll add a few.
6)  Somewhere between extreme paranoia and purposeful ignorance is the Holy Grail of middle ground.  If you can find that sweet spot, your chances of success will most likely be significantly greater.
7)  Don't tilt the balance of power in favor of someone else.  You'll never regain it.
8)Don't be a savior.  Once saved, your purpose has been served and you are no longer necessary.
9)  In your efforts to impress, don't set the bar so high that in the future you'll be exhausted just trying to maintain it. 
10)  By all means, be yourself.   
11)  Research what it's going to require to make it happen (not just communication, travel, etc., but to actually be together in the long-term).  A giant shot of realism may cure your Slavic fever.
12)  Don't hesitate to add more cow bell.

Excellent advice 

[IAmZon]

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