What the REAL women in Russia think: feminism

[Shadow]

One of my friends has a large group on one of the Russian social networks. The group handles among others relations between men and women, and often touches interesting subject.
While talking over the subject of feminism, he warned me that currently feminism is rampant in the big cities. There is a large amount of women who hold the opinion that they should be worshipped by men and treated as a queen, while having the right to consider men as nothing without their presence.
Of course they do wish that the men continue to provide for them all they need, as is their right as a woman. In the recent years this has grown, which means that those who wish to escape the feministic attitude of women in their home country, may find an equal or worse attitude among Russian women.

[BillyB]

On my first visit to my wife, I asked her and her mom what they thought about feminism. They laughed and said they heard about feminism in America and those women aren't women.

[Shadow]

On my first visit to my wife, I asked her and her mom what they thought about feminism. They laughed and said they heard about feminism in America and those women aren't women.

Well here is the preliminary result from a poll that started yesterday:

3.500 voted that a man without a woman is nothing, but a woman without a man is very happy and is better off.
1500 voted that a man without a woman is nothing, and a woman without a man is nothing as well.

Of those 1500 votes half were men. The 3500 votes were all women.

Knowing the location of origin of your wife and family I do not doubt their opinion.

[Lily]

Shadow, my guess would be that if you ask real women in Russia what do they think of feminism, they probably reply you that they do not think about it at all

[Gator]

Shadow, if I am reading you correctly, it seems that the collective definition of feminism within your friend's large circle of RW has three parts as follows (quoting your post):

1.  RW "....should be worshipped by men and treated as a queen..."
 
2.  "....while having the right to consider men as nothing without their presence."
 
3.   "..... they do wish that the men continue to provide for them all they need, as is their right as a woman."
 
In Western circles, feminism is a movement seeking equal political, economic, educational and social rights for women    (i. e. gender neutrality, equal pay, etc.)
 
These are two entirely different concepts, and I doubt a Western feminist would subscribe to any of the three.  In fact, I would say that the three-part definition is more about entitlement - "Because I am beautiful and keep my femininity, it is man's duty to take care of me."   
 
 
Personally, I would rather have a Western feminist (I hired several) than the RW feminist as defined above.  The RW definition borders on entitlement, and I have seen far more of it in RW, even independent RW, than the Western definition. 

[Shadow]

Gator while you are right, the image presented is due to how men are presented in most of the American culture. Have you ever looked at movies and television series with an objective look? In general men are portrayed as sex-driven, rather clumsy individuals who can not handle themselves. Women on the other hand are portrayed as smarter, mentally and physically strong and able to help out the poor clumsy male creatures.
Even the 'biatches' are able to get anything from men.

This is a result of over-equalization and an image that women are trying to follow in real life and take their sense of entitlement from.

[Misha]

While talking over the subject of feminism, he warned me that currently feminism is rampant in the big cities. There is a large amount of women who hold the opinion that they should be worshipped by men and treated as a queen, while having the right to consider men as nothing without their presence.

Feminism? I would define this as Narcissism 

[Gator]

Shadow,
 
It would interesting if your friend resurveyed the circle and asked them which model they prefer:  the narcissistic /entitled model or the Western equality model (presuming for the latter that they had the opportunity to earn the same amount of money as a man).  Of course use softer terms.



Also, if married and she earned more than her husband, would she share equally.

[Fashionista]

One of my friends has a large group on one of the Russian social networks. The group handles among others relations between men and women, and often touches interesting subject.
While talking over the subject of feminism, he warned me that currently feminism is rampant in the big cities. There is a large amount of women who hold the opinion that they should be worshipped by men and treated as a queen, while having the right to consider men as nothing without their presence.
Of course they do wish that the men continue to provide for them all they need, as is their right as a woman. In the recent years this has grown, which means that those who wish to escape the feministic attitude of women in their home country, may find an equal or worse attitude among Russian women.

I don't think that's what feminism is. Someone is definitely very confused here.
 
I am a feminist. I believe that women must be paid the same salary for doing the same job. Hence the 8th of march

[Shadow]

Shadow,
 
It would interesting if your friend resurveyed the circle and asked them which model they prefer:  the narcissistic /entitled model or the Western equality model (presuming for the latter that they had the opportunity to earn the same amount of money as a man).  Of course use softer terms.



Also, if married and she earned more than her husband, would she share equally.

How should he explain the diffence between the models ?

[Shadow]

I don't think that's what feminism is. Someone is definitely very confused here.
 
I am a feminist. I believe that women must be paid the same salary for the same job. Hence the 8th of march

Do you believe men should also be given equal time free in case of things like a child being born or illness ? Do you believe men have equal rights on the children?

[Fashionista]

Do you believe men should also be given equal time free in case of things like a child being born or illness ? Do you believe men have equal rights on the children?

The first one -yes, why not
 
The second question: I don't understand the concept of any person having a right on a child. Therefore, I can't answer this question. If anything, a child has a right for a parent, a child cannot do well without a parent. An adult can do without a child just fine.

[Misha]

The first one -yes, why not
 
The second question: I don't understand the concept of any person having a right on a child. Therefore, I can't answer this question. If anything, a child has a right for a parent, a child cannot do well without a parent. An adult can do without a child just fine.

I am guessing that Shadow was really asking whether in the case of divorce men should have equal custody rights...

[Fashionista]

I am guessing that Shadow was really asking whether in the case of divorce men should have equal custody rights...

Sure. I am not sure why the question is even asked. Should we make sure legally that the sun sets in the west? If you need to protect the child from one of the parents, then it's the only exception. But if they are both normal people - yep, equal rights.

[Shadow]

The first one -yes, why not
 
The second question: I don't understand the concept of any person having a right on a child. Therefore, I can't answer this question. If anything, a child has a right for a parent, a child cannot do well without a parent. An adult can do without a child just fine.

Added with your later answer, we are on the same page. However there are large amount of feminists who feel women should be "more equal" as in gaining rights but not giving up where they are receiving preferential treatment.

[Fashionista]

If they are for preferential treatment, they are not feminists. I can call myseld an Iranian princess. That does not make me an expert on Iranian culture.

[Shadow]

If they are for preferential treatment, they are not feminists. I can call myseld an Iranian princess. That does not make me an expert on Iranian culture.

Well perhaps you can answer the poll:

A: Man can not live without a woman, but a woman can easily live without a man.
B: Mean can not live without a woman and a woman can not live without a man.

[Fashionista]

They both can live without each other 
They can even live without food or water, but not very long 
Без любви умирают птицы, без любви умирают рыбы....
Только люди живут подолгу, потому что у них есть руки 

[pitbull]

I don't think that's what feminism is. Someone is definitely very confused here.
 
I am a feminist. I believe that women must be paid the same salary for doing the same job. Hence the 8th of march

Agreed, I think that definition/description has very little to do with feminism. 

[Boethius]

I agree as well.  That synopsis has nothing to do with feminism.    Feminism is about equality in society, and more particularly, political, social, and economic equality.  I have specifically put the rights in this order, as feminism in the West grew from the suffrage movement.


Women do need about six weeks more maternity leave than men, because that is how long it takes, at a minimum, for women to recover from childbirth.  In Canada, men have equal maternity leave to women, but only one parent can take that leave (a year), or they can split the time.

[Gator]

Shadow,
 
Gender inequality has its roots in patriarchy.    With regard to patriarchy, Russia is far closer to the West than to conservative Muslim societies.   However, there is room for improvement. 
 
I could see you asking a few specific questions about related issues such as:
 
-  Should police arrest  a husband and place him in jail overnight if there is any proof of violence (which could be a scratch or a small bruise on the woman).
 
-  In the event of divorce, should the father receive joint custody of the children to include equal visitation rights.
 
-  Who should make household decisions regarding division of labor,  budgets, etc.?  (husband, wife, mutually, grandmother).
 
- If a wife had a highly paid job, is it reasonable that the husband not work and stay at home to take care of children, cook, clean, etc.?
 
I am sure the RWD women could do a better job of phrasing such questions to create stark choices.

[Gator]

Feminism is about equality in society, and more particularly, political, social, and economic equality.  I have specifically put the rights in this order, as feminism in the West grew from the suffrage movement.

 

In Western circles, feminism is a movement seeking equal political, economic, educational and social rights for women    (i. e. gender neutrality, equal pay, etc.)

Just wanted to show that sometimes we do not contradict each other.    I did not list the rights in any order of importance, considering all of them necessary.

[vwrw]

On my first visit to my wife, I asked her and her mom what they thought about feminism. They laughed and said they heard about feminism in America and those women aren't women.

Many women in FSUW have a wrong idea of what feminism is...and they ridicule their idea of feminism, not feminism itself.

[Misha]

Many women in FSUW have a wrong idea of what feminism is...and they ridicule their idea of feminism, not feminism itself.

Yes, but ask them whether they would not mind that only the men get paid one month at work because they have to support their families, and that they are just women, and I am sure they will be [rightfully] peeved...


P.S. It did happen to my wife in the past that the men would be paid if the company was low on cash and there was not enough to pay everybody. Though my wife does not label herself a feminist per se, she still did raise all hell to ensure that she was paid as well as fair is fair...

[Shadow]

I agree as well.  That synopsis has nothing to do with feminism.    Feminism is about equality in society, and more particularly, political, social, and economic equality.  I have specifically put the rights in this order, as feminism in the West grew from the suffrage movement.


Women do need about six weeks more maternity leave than men, because that is how long it takes, at a minimum, for women to recover from childbirth.  In Canada, men have equal maternity leave to women, but only one parent can take that leave (a year), or they can split the time.

As they need this extra leave, would it not be fair if women in the age they can bear children get paid a bit less in order for the employer to be able to afford this ?