Sad day

[BillyB]

When the man uses verbal insults/abuse and physical pushing & chocking (physical abuse) - he isn't immature. He is abusive.

If a man does that, he is both abusive and immature. Spouses who call each other names are also abusive and immature. Kids who don't want other kids taking their toys sometimes respond with phyiscal violence are also abusive and immature. Some people take longer to grow up or never grow up. How about letting Aloe come forward with what the counselor says about her husband before hanging him?

[TomT]

Try to look at the brighter side, Aloe: You could be married to one of the self-proclaimed REAL MEN on this forum. (Then, you would have good reason to be depressed.)

[mies]

If a man does that, he is both abusive and immature. Spouses who call each other names are also abusive and immature. Kids who don't want other kids taking their toys sometimes respond with phyiscal violence are also abusive and immature. Some people take longer to grow up or never grow up. How about letting Aloe come forward with what the counselor says about her husband before hanging him?

Your honor, I'm not guilty of beating my spouse to a pulp. Kids fight all the time, I just haven't grown up yet. I admit to being immature and being immature isn't a criminal offense.

[mies]

Give it up mies.... 

You are right :-)

[Dogrunner1]

I dunno if i created any troubles in my mind, but i don't like being pushed and stuff, it's a big shock. Maybe i am making it more than it is, i dunno.
Yes he perceives money a very important thing. I don't see why he has to have 2k euro at all times as a safety net.. Money is not a problem in my head for 2 reasons
1) This is a totally useless and unfounded worry in Belgium, because the social security system here is incredibly good. If you get fired, you receive full salary from the government unemployment for like 6 months. After 6 months the sum gradually decreases. At this moment you only need to have worked 1.5 years in your life to receive unemployment money for the rest of your life. And if you can't afford to live, they will give you money too. And medicine is nearly free, u pay like 120 euro a year to cover all possible medical treatment you'll ever need, including hospitalization. Of course you pay tons for social security through taxes, but if you become unemployed, nobody takes away these benefits from you. You keep paying same 120 euro, and everyone else from taxes should anything happen to you. Moreover, if you are getting fired, the employer will have to give you at least a 3 month warning, and 2 half days off every week (meant for interviews at other companies)
2) His mom and my parents won't let us starve or leave rent unpaid. He doesn't have any problems with taking money from them, we do it all the time.
So i see no reason whatsoever, not even a little tiniest bit to worry about money as he does. But we already decided to organize a new money system anyway

Hi Aloe, one of the saddest stories I have read to date, hope you are keeping well, keep smiling.

From the above you have written I would say that your husband is trying to control you, with that you do not like being controlled and it is making you unhappy.

Anyone who lays hands on a women has in my opinion lost control and all respect for the other person, it's highly probable he will do it again, sorry to say.

Taking money from your account is taking away your independence, he can feel you are unhappy, with you having money he feels like he is losing control of you, hence the reason for taking away that independence. No decent man would of demanded that gift from your parents.

From what I have read, I personally would consider my options carefully, can you really see this man as a role model for your children? Someone you would be proud of your children calling him 'Dad'?

You are young enough to start over again, do it now before this man puts his hands on you again, nobody should have to live with verbal or physical threat.

Wish you the best.

[Voyager36]

If I don't understand women? How did I get a date? How do I get repeat dates? How did I get married? If a woman tells me she doesn't like young men because they lack of maturity which adds to the relationship silliness, drama, and always letting the woman make the decisions, it's best I believe those ladies than to tell them they're wrong because I rather trust a woman on the internet. Do you like when men behave like children or give you drama? Your answer is the same as my past dates and to them, which is clear to me, all relates to the level of maturity of a man. If you still insist maturity is related to financial security, what do you consider immature?  An unemployed man?

She didn't say you don't understand women, she said you don't understand RW thought process.
Getting into a relationship or getting married is the easy part.
Making the relationship work is the tough part.
 
All the speculation is moot until Aloe returns to explain what happened.

[Muzh]

Although Aloe's husband pushed her and had his hand around her neck, he is not a wife beater that deserves to sit in jail.

Wouldn't it be nice a big strong brute would bitch-slap you around so you can you can tell the police not to put him in jail?

[Aloe]

My psychologist after listening to my stories, concluded that hubby doesn't communicate and that he has little empathy for me. Hubby said it's BS and that he always puts himself in my shoes. I think that's BS that he does, cuz if he did put himself in my shoes, however could he justify someone 50 pounds heavier and 1 foot taller physically dominating the other? No way did he ever put himself in my shoes. On the bright side, during our last argument he called me a crazy woman and not a swear word    That is improvement.
But anyway, what i realized is that hubby bullies me. And he gets away with it because i don't stand up for myself. When he is pushing me and yelling at me, i just undergo it passively most of the time. I never do anything back and never yell back. That only one time i tried to express my anger with that glass we all know how it ended The only thing i ever do is provide extensive and elaborate explanations the next day on why this kind of behavior is inappropriate and shouldn't happen again. Anyway, this all has lead to enooooooooooooooormous amounts of anger and frustration being bottled up in me, and i don't know how to get rid of it. Outwardly i never lose my cool but on the inside sometimes i'm bursting with frustration and anger and annoyance, because so much of it has built up over the years without an outlet. And my psychologist is kind of useless. I've gone like 12 times by now, the only thing i learned is that i'm overly self-critical. All my issues are still unresolved. She hasn't taught me how to get rid of anger, although i asked.. What a waste of money?

Anyway hubby and i agreed to rent me a studio in september. So that's giant improvement. And after a few months in the studio everything will become obvious by itself i think.

[Voyager36]

But anyway, what i realized is that hubby bullies me. And he gets away with it because i don't stand up for myself. When he is pushing me and yelling at me, i just undergo it passively most of the time. I never do anything back and never yell back. That only one time i tried to express my anger with that glass we all know how it ended The only thing i ever do is provide extensive and elaborate explanations the next day on why this kind of behavior is inappropriate and shouldn't happen again. Anyway, this all has lead to enooooooooooooooormous amounts of anger and frustration being bottled up in me, and i don't know how to get rid of it. Outwardly i never lose my cool but on the inside sometimes i'm bursting with frustration and anger and annoyance, because so much of it has built up over the years without an outlet. And my psychologist is kind of useless. I've gone like 12 times by now, the only thing i learned is that i'm overly self-critical. All my issues are still unresolved. She hasn't taught me how to get rid of anger, although i asked.. What a waste of money?

Anyway hubby and i agreed to rent me a studio in september. So that's giant improvement. And after a few months in the studio everything will become obvious by itself i think.

Aloe, I hope that this will work out, one way or another.
What does he usually yell at you for?
And have you noticed, do his parents behave the same way, father yells or bullies the mother?

[Anotherkiwi]

Anyway hubby and i agreed to rent me a studio in september. So that's giant improvement. And after a few months in the studio everything will become obvious by itself i think.

September is still a long way away.  There is no guarantee that his behaviour will improve in that time, which may create even more problems than seem to be apparent already.
 
And what do you mean by "studio?"  Do you mean a separate small apartment, far enough away from your home to feel safer most of the time?

[Ooooops]

I've gone like 12 times by now, the only thing i learned is that i'm overly self-critical. All my issues are still unresolved. She hasn't taught me how to get rid of anger, although i asked.. What a waste of money?

I don't know much about shrinks and their methods, but I think that they not suppose to give you an answer on a platter, you suppose to come up with the solution by yourself during those sessions... 

[Aloe]

I am not suggesting Aloe stay but rather, that she determine what is really making her unhappy.  She is looking to move away, thinking "someplace" will be better.  But she is still Aloe in all those places.  Unless she roots down to what is really making her unhappy, leaving her marriage, moving to another country, finding a new man, etc., won't make her any happier.

I'm unhappy because of all the frustration built up in me and because i feel trapped. I'm unhappy because the future is uncertain. I'm unhappy because i don't have a clear goal so life seems pointless. I'm unhappy because my standards for a guy have risen dramatically and hubby does not meet them. I'm unhappy because i have low confidence. I'm unhappy because i'm not satisfied with myself.

[Aloe]

I don't know much about shrinks and their methods, but I think that they not suppose to give you an answer on a platter, you suppose to come up with the solution by yourself during those sessions...

I have not had any new thoughts at her place that i didn't have at my place. I don't see why i'm paying 1 euro a minute to tell her everything i've thought of, and not get any kind of new insight. So how am i supposed to come up with a solution if i'm just repeating everything i already know to her? This shrink must be for people who spend no time self-contemplating. I spend hours every day doing that, so nothing new at her office. And she came recommended by my general doctor as a great psychologist who has helped tons of people. So i'm not even sure if this one is great, others must be even worse?

[Ooooops]

I have not had any new thoughts at her place that i didn't have at my place.

Like I've said - I don't know much about this matter, but one thing jumps to mind - to verbalize and admit your problems is a huge step.   But she can't lead you along the road that follows that step, you'd have to decide for yourself.   And it looks like you already did - separating from your husband for a while with renting a studio.   Not sure, though, why it has to be in September, but you know better, I guess...

[Aloe]

Like I've said - I don't know much about this matter, but one thing jumps to mind - to verbalize and admit your problems is a huge step.   But she can't lead you along the road that follows that step, you'd have to decide for yourself.   And it looks like you already did - separating from your husband for a while with renting a studio.   Not sure, though, why it has to be in September, but you know better, I guess...

I have no problems verbalizing or admitting my problems. So it wasn't such a huge step. And i've been wanting that studio for years, just before now wasn't able to convince hubby

[Voyager36]

I'm unhappy because of all the frustration built up in me and because i feel trapped. I'm unhappy because the future is uncertain. I'm unhappy because i don't have a clear goal so life seems pointless. I'm unhappy because my standards for a guy have risen dramatically and hubby does not meet them. I'm unhappy because i have low confidence. I'm unhappy because i'm not satisfied with myself.

Has this changed since you moved to Belgium?
What goals did you have before?

[Daveman]

...built up over the years without an outlet. And my psychologist is kind of useless. I've gone like 12 times by now, the only thing i learned is that i'm overly self-critical. All my issues are still unresolved. She hasn't taught me how to get rid of anger, although i asked.. What a waste of money?

Depends on a variety of factors, the type of therapy and the relationship you develop with the therapist being only two... I doubt very seriously, very very seriously, that is was a waste of money...

Remember, Aloe, therapy is more about moving yourself toward a path of long term healthy emotional habits/lifestyle rather than quick fixes.  You spent years arriving at the emotional state in which you currently find yourself.. there really are no band aids or kisses to make it better.  Working through emotions isn't formulaic, nor can it be really be"taught". It can only be learned and that learning process must be experienced individually...

[Boethius]

My psychologist after listening to my stories, concluded that hubby doesn't communicate and that he has little empathy for me. Hubby said it's BS and that he always puts himself in my shoes. I think that's BS that he does, cuz if he did put himself in my shoes, however could he justify someone 50 pounds heavier and 1 foot taller physically dominating the other? No way did he ever put himself in my shoes.

Have you told him you feel physically intimidated during your arguments?

On the bright side, during our last argument he called me a crazy woman and not a swear word    That is improvement.

Did you tell him you don't appreciate the swearing?

But anyway, what i realized is that hubby bullies me. And he gets away with it because i don't stand up for myself. When he is pushing me and yelling at me, i just undergo it passively most of the time. I never do anything back and never yell back. That only one time i tried to express my anger with that glass we all know how it ended The only thing i ever do is provide extensive and elaborate explanations the next day on why this kind of behavior is inappropriate and shouldn't happen again. Anyway, this all has lead to enooooooooooooooormous amounts of anger and frustration being bottled up in me, and i don't know how to get rid of it. Outwardly i never lose my cool but on the inside sometimes i'm bursting with frustration and anger and annoyance, because so much of it has built up over the years without an outlet.

People deal with confrontation differently.   I suggest when these arguments start, if it is not productive, you leave.  Put on your coat, take your keys, and take a walk around the block.  It is not good to keep those emotions bottled, they will, eventually, take a toll on you physically, but this, Aloe, is your issue, not your husband's.

You must both learn to resolve differences productively.  That means calmly, no yelling if that bothers you.

And my psychologist is kind of useless. I've gone like 12 times by now, the only thing i learned is that i'm overly self-critical. All my issues are still unresolved. She hasn't taught me how to get rid of anger, although i asked.. What a waste of money?

She can't resolve your problems for you.  All she can do is point them out to you.  You have to do the heavy lifting if you want to change.  What are you angry about? 

Anyway hubby and i agreed to rent me a studio in september. So that's giant improvement. And after a few months in the studio everything will become obvious by itself i think.

I hope so, but I am not optimistic about this. 

In terms of you, I suggest you keep a diary.  I also suggest you keep a gratitude journal.  Everyday, before bed, write one thing that happened during your day for which you are grateful.

[Ooooops]

I have no problems verbalizing or admitting my problems. So it wasn't such a huge step.

Well...  then there are 2 options - keep verbalizing and admitting for years to come or act out on that.   

And i've been wanting that studio for years, just before now wasn't able to convince hubby

I'm not sure now - why do you want this studio?   

[Aloe]

Has this changed since you moved to Belgium?
What goals did you have before?

Before i had one overwhelming life goal, to find a good hubby. Nothing else mattered

[Aloe]

Depends on a variety of factors, the type of therapy and the relationship you develop with the therapist being only two... I doubt very seriously, very very seriously, that is was a waste of money...

Remember, Aloe, therapy is more about moving yourself toward a path of long term healthy emotional habits/lifestyle rather than quick fixes.  You spent years arriving at the emotional state in which you currently find yourself.. there really are no band aids or kisses to make it better.  Working through emotions isn't formulaic, nor can it be really be"taught". It can only be learned and that learning process must be experienced individually...

Surely there must be at least some tips on how to out your anger?

[Ooooops]

Before i had one overwhelming life goal, to find a good hubby. Nothing else mattered

And you were...  20 - 21 yo at that time?   

[BillyB]

my psychologist is kind of useless.

Aloe, you seemed to value what your psychologist said about your husband enough to put those opinions here. What did your psychologist say about you in the disputes you're having? Is there any chance you're driving your husband nuts as much as he's driving you nuts?


How old is your psychologist? Does he/she have many years experience or looks like he/she just graduated college? Get a new psychologist or be honest with your current one and tell him/her that you aren't getting much out of the sessions.


You once said you're 99% happy with your husband. You also once said you're at fault 95% of the time. That's excessive but I feel you're being honest that you do have lots of faults in your marital disputes. What do you want from the people here, advice to make your marriage better or help with an exit plan?  You're a woman so if you want out of a marriage, just say the word and there are plenty of people here that will influence you, cheer you on, and enable you.


Thanks for coming back and reporting your experience with a psychologist. After 12 sessions I wish there were more for you to say.

I'm unhappy because my standards for a guy have risen dramatically and hubby does not meet them.

One reason you married your hubby is because you had in common video games. You stopped before hime. Remember I told you you're growing faster than him? It will probably be like this for many years or for the rest of your life and you will continue to be frustrated with him and in turn he will continue to be frustrated by the way you think of him. He's a young man, he's your husband, so give him time and show tolerance. Being tolerant is one way to reduce your anger.

[Aloe]

Have you told him you feel physically intimidated during your arguments?


Did you tell him you don't appreciate the swearing?

Of course i told him. I spent countless hours explaining how this, this and that makes me feel, and why and how and that it's unacceptable. But he has his own opinion. And he either denies, doesn't remember or finds justified everything he does.

People deal with confrontation differently.   I suggest when these arguments start, if it is not productive, you leave.  Put on your coat, take your keys, and take a walk around the block.  It is not good to keep those emotions bottled, they will, eventually, take a toll on you physically, but this, Aloe, is your issue, not your husband's.

I provoked last two arguments (in april and last week), well, i didn't provoke it, but i made sure it escalated. I guess i'm getting really sick of it. I guess this is also immature on my part. But i feel like talking doesn't do anything and i'm fed up with everything.

You must both learn to resolve differences productively.  That means calmly, no yelling if that bothers you.

I am always talking calmly and he's always agreeing with everything i say, but i don't feel that it has an effect. Except this last time when he called me a crazy woman instead of a swear word. That was a surprise But it could be too little too late.

[Voyager36]

Before i had one overwhelming life goal, to find a good hubby. Nothing else mattered

What did you think to do?
I mean, did you plan to study, to work after marriage? Or did you have any plans?